Interviewer (2:24)

Right after she gives this testimony in front of an FBI agent, among others, she's transferred to a minimum security prison not suitable for a sex offender like herself. Who made that decision and why?

Kash Patel (2:40)

The Bureau of Prisons.

Interviewer (2:42)

The Bureau of Decisions made it in prisons. The Bureau of Prisons decided on their own, without any consultation with Blanche or anyone else, that they were going to suddenly, after this interview, completely unrelated to this interview, completely unrelated to anything she said, move her to a prison not suitable for a sex offender. You want the American people to believe that? Do you think they're stupid?

Kash Patel (3:09)

No, I think the American people believe the truth, that I'm not in the weeds on the everyday movements of inmates. What I am doing is protecting this country, providing historic reform and combating the weaponization of intelligence by the likes of you. And we have countlessly proven you to be a liar in Russia in January 6. You are the biggest fraud to ever sit in the United States Senate. Disgrace to this and an utter coward.

Interviewer (3:38)

I'm not surprised.

Kash Patel (3:39)

I'm not surprised that you continue to lie from your perch and put on a show so you can go raise money for your charade. You are political. A phone at best.

Interviewer (3:51)

Well, you can take an Internet, take.

Kash Patel (3:54)

It to the bank that the FBI is protecting this country and the state and the California historic reform, Internet, point of order. But all you care about is a child sex predator that was prosecuted by a prior administration. And the Obama Justice Department and the Biden Justice Department did squat. And what did President Trump do? Bring new charges courageously. And what have we done, Chairman? Set off the most transparent FBI Director in History, 33,000 pages of information to you. I challenge you to say anything credibly to the truth. Go ahead and run to the cameras where you want to go now, but.

Sam Stein (4:34)

Quote, why won't the House Republicans put on their big boy pants and tell us who the pedophiles are, said Cash Patel. Timila, I have to start with you. What did you think about Kash Patel today?

Tim Miller (4:49)

Were you just impressed with his professionalism there, Nicole? And could you just imagine Bob Mueller or Jim Comey sitting there screaming like just crazed maniac leveling really wild accusations against senators as if he's a reply guy in the senator's comment feed with his eyeballs bulging? I don't know. It didn't give me a lot of confidence that somebody in a very high pressure job who has to make a lot of Tough decisions, has to deal with a lot of incoming, has to deal with a lot of bad guys, has the temperament to kind of handle that job. I think that there's a good reason to doubt that. And I think that was the most fireworks of the hearing. And I appreciate Senator Schiff. Some of the other Democrats, I don't think, were quite as pointed to, say the least in their questioning of Patel. But Senator Schiff did a nice job there. But Patel and a bunch of other areas, as you know, I think was demonstrating to be obviously hiding the ball. And Schiff is asking him about Glenn Maxwell and I think rightly pointing out the absurdity of the notion that there was not a decision at the highest levels of the Trump administration to move her to this Club Fed. I think that's obvious on the merits. There's actually a Republican senator, my Senator, John Kennedy, that was asking him about whether there were any other co conspirators with Epstein and Maxwell. And Patel gave just, I think, an extreme an answer that was so unsatisfactory that even Republican Senator John Kennedy ended his remarks by saying that is extremely unsatisfactory. You're going to have to come up with something better than that if you're going to try to claim that there were no other coconspirators in the Epstein file. So, you know, there were a couple of other, I think, interesting things to go over about his management of the FBI. But on the Epstein front, those are the two most significant moments.

Sam Stein (6:39)

I want to show you, Sam Stein, something that seems significant in the Trump Cabinet's shifting blame game. This was Patel with a new person he's holding accountable. Alex Acosta.

Kash Patel (6:55)

Now, I know that there's a lot of talk about Epstein, and I'm here to testify that the original sin in the Epstein case was the way it was initially brought by Mr. Acosta back in 2006. The original case involved a very limited search warrant or set of search warrants and didn't take as much investigatory material it should have seized. If I were the FBI director, then it wouldn't have happened.

Sam Stein (7:18)

So on that point, the Oversight Committee is going to interview and there'll be a transcript. Alex Acosta on September 19th. I think that's Friday of this week. Sam Stein. But Kash Patel is certainly building up the pressure on Mr. Acosta.

Nicole Wallace (7:34)

Yeah, Tim and I were discussing this earlier. He ran him over with a bus, then put the bus in reverse and decided to run him over again. It was a notable decision by Patel because they had not at this point brought in Acosta because for obvious reasons, primary one being that Alex Acosta was Donald Trump's labor secretary. This was after he struck the plea deal with Epstein. So it does raise questions about whether Trump himself, why he would hire someone who was the author of the original sin in the Epstein saga. But it's clear from, from that sound bite that you just played that Patel wants to get out from under this, that Acosta is going to play that role for him where he can just push it all on Acosta. And it does raise the stakes for what Acosta says to the House when he does come in for an interview. And if we do see that interview, I'd be very curious to see what he says about it. The other thing that's sort of looming over this as well is that we have this whole Massey Rokanda discharge petition, that in a matter of weeks, if the vote holds and this next Democrat is seated, as is expected to happen, they should get to 218 votes that they need to force a discharge petition. So, you know, while there were moments today during the hearing that were very electric with respect to the Epstein saga, the other thing to consider is that we have this Acosta transcript coming up. We have interviews happening with other officials, and then we do have this discharge petition in the weeks ahead that could keep the story in the news cycle.

Sam Stein (9:05)

Tim, it's such a good point. I mean, there's, there's what's happened in the past that, that Trump ran on making public his followers voted for him for variety reasons, but one of them was releasing the Epstein material. And then there's the things they've done since this became an epic scandal where for a time, Megyn Kelly and Joe Rogan and others turned against them. Let me show you Adam Schiff's questioning about Todd Blanche's interview with Ghislaine Maxwell.

Interviewer (9:38)

Let me ask you this. When Todd Blanche went to interview G. Maxwell, she said, but did I, like, think these guys were coming for that? I really don't. If you met Epstein, there's no way that this cast of characters, of which it's extraordinary and some are in your cabinet who you value as your co workers and you know, would be with him if he was a creeper because they wanted sexual favors. A man wants sexual favors, he will find out. They didn't have to come to Epstein for that. And the next question Todd Blanch, the president's former criminal defense lawyer, asked is not who in the cabinet, who are you referring to? His question is, so when's the last Time you think you were with Mr. Epstein when he got a massage. So let me ask you, who are those cabinet members that Jose Maxwell. Maxwell is referring to that. That were part of this cast of characters associated with Mr. Epstein? Who are they?

Kash Patel (10:42)

The deputy Attorney general took the aggressive step that no one else did and interviewed Ms. Maxwell for two days, and we released the entirety of that.

Interviewer (10:51)

Cabinet members.

Kash Patel (10:51)

I do not have that transcript in front of me.

Sam Stein (10:55)

I mean, I do. Here it is, Tim. I'll. I'll play it for you. I. I have the audio. Did I, like, think these guys were coming for that? I really don't. If you met Epstein, there is no way that this cast of characters, of which it's extraordinary, some of you in your cabinet who you value as your co workers and you know would be with him if he was a creep or because they wanted sexual favors. A man wants sexual favors, he will find that they didn't have to come to Epstein for that. Now did some. Okay. I don't know. I wasn't there. I didn't see it. So.

Nicole Wallace (11:45)

When'S the last time you think you were with Mr. Epstein? When he got.

Tim Miller (11:53)

Got a massage.

Sam Stein (11:56)

I mean, I think Todd Bland should now launch a conspiracy theory of his own that there's like a missing minute. Because how does anyone who's trained as a lawyer hear this? If you met Epstein, there's no way that this cast of characters of which it's extraordinary and some are in your cabinet who you value as coworkers. Who on earth. I mean, I don't think you even have to go to law school. Who on earth doesn't want to know who in the cabinet that he values. His coworkers hung out with Jeffrey Epstein. Like, how does that happen? And no one has followed up and asked who those people were until shifted that today.

Tim Miller (12:34)

Yeah, I don't know. Maybe he was distracted by her noxious fake Mary Poppins voice thing that she's doing there. It's really kind of hard to listen to given what she has been culpable. And I don't know that Blanche was even trying to get information. I can help a little bit. Unlike Blanche and unlike Gaj Patel, I haven't had any access to the Epstein files. But I could tell you that at least one of the cabinet members she's referencing is the Secretary of Health and Human Services, RFK Jr. Because he's admitted to being on the plane with Epstein and discussed it himself publicly. It doesn't seem like this administration is very interested in learning any more about that I don't know anything about it, but I think that that just tells you it's just such a blatant example of what type of COVID up this is. They're trying to do whatever possible to kind of check this box to throw some chum into the water that hopefully their base will accept. And they're really struggling. And they're now in this position where it's like they're obviously doing a cover up of Trump's mentions in the Epstein files, which they still haven't shown us, which we know they have in a shared drive. And, you know, they are obviously not interested in learning any more about RFK and, I don't know, maybe other members of the cabinet based on what Ghislaine Maxwell said in that interview.

Sam Stein (13:55)

In his latest attack on the free press in America, Donald Trump announced overnight in a social media screed that he is suing the New York Times and four of its reporters. He's accusing them of defaming him ahead of the 2024 election. Donald Trump is claiming that a series of articles published by the New York Times were, quote, unquote, specifically designed, end quote, to undermine his candidacy and disparage his reputation as a businessman. The lawsuit asked for damages of at least $15 billion. The defendants named in the suit include New York Times reporter Suzanne Craig and Ross Buettner, who's reporting about Donald Trump's finances was the subject of a book by Penguin Random House, also a defendant. The suit also named New York Times reporter Peter Baker, who reported that Donald Trump has been accused of wrongdoing more than any other candidate for the office of the president in American history. And Michael Schmidt, who published an audio interview with Donald Trump's former chief of staff, General John Kelly, saying that Donald Trump would rule like a dictator in his second term. As the host of this broadcast, it is important today to disclose that Michael Schmidt is my husband. He, along with Sue Craig and Peter Baker, have all spent a lot of time on this program since, specifically as well as contributors and analysts on MSNBC and NBC News Network. The New York Times has responded to the lawsuit by saying this, quote, this lawsuit has no merit. It lacks any legitimate legal claims and instead is an attempt to stifle and discourage independent reporting. The New York Times will not be deterred by intimidation tactics. We will continue to pursue the facts without fear or favor and stand up for journalists, First Amendment right to ask questions or on behalf of the American people. Penguin Random House has also responded to the lawsuit saying this, quote, this is a meritless lawsuit. Penguin Random House stands by the book and its authors and will continue to uphold the values of the First Amendment that are fundamental to our role as a book publisher. Sam Stein, Tim Miller and Christy Miller are Christy Greenberg are all back with us. Tim, you and Christy somehow became family members in my reintro. I'm sorry about that.

Tim Miller (16:07)

An honor.

Sam Stein (16:09)

I would love to be related to Christy Greenberg. Christy, let me start with you on actually, let me start on the tactic, because to be honest, what CBS and ABC have done is clear the path for a big money settlement, right? I mean, that is the muscle memory that Donald Trump is leaning on when he sues the New York Times for $15 billion overnight. Tim Miller.

Tim Miller (16:40)

It is. And them folding is going to have extreme long term ramifications, them being specifically CBS and abc. And I think it's important to talk about this context. Right. The New York Times. This lawsuit is just preposterous on its face and it's written in such ridiculous manner. Like one of the complaints against Sue Craig, I believe, was that she reported that Mark Burnett resuscitated Trump's career and his celebrity, and then she's getting sued for libel over that. And they cite in the report that Trump was on WrestleMania before he was back on the Apprentice. And so he was already famous. It's like a completely ridiculous, laughable lawsuit in many ways, including one way where he says he's worth $100 billion, which if true, is a pretty big sign of corruption in the White House. So that might be a follow up for Sue Craig. But look, here's the thing. The 60 Minutes lawsuit was ridiculous, was completely ridiculous. They sued CBS under the premise that they edited an interview when 60 Minutes edits every interview that they do. Nicole, I'm sure back when you were a flack, when I was a flack, I had politicians that did 60 Minutes interviews that they follow you around for a couple days, they get hours of footage, they cut it down to 60 minutes. It's right there in the name. It happens every week. They do more than 60 minutes of interview and then cut it down. And so that was the premise of the lawsuit. Cbs, in a totally craven move, in a greedy move and a corrupt move, wanted to have their merger, or Paramount, rather, the parent company, wanted to have their merger approved. And so they settled on this preposterous lawsuit. And so now you go forward and Trump is emboldened to do things like this. I don't expect that the New York Times will fold in the same way, but it creates a chilling effect across the industry. And obviously Trump is culpable here ultimately for these attacks on free speech that are unprecedented for the president. But the media companies that folded are almost as culpable as he is. And what do you think Pam Bondi saying she's going to go after hate speech? Is that, I mean, a lot of.

Interviewer (18:48)

People, a lot of your allies say.

Tim Miller (18:49)

Hate speech is free speech to probably go after people like you because you treat me so, unless fairly, it's hate. You have a lot of hate in your heart. Maybe they'll come after ABC. Well, ABC paid me $16 million recently for a form of hate speech. Right. Your company paid me $16 million for.

Interviewer (19:08)

A form of hate speech.

Tim Miller (19:09)

So maybe they'll have to go after you.

Sam Stein (19:13)

Sam, Tim and Christie are back. Sam, in 2017, none other than Charlie Kirk said that there's no legal basis for going after hate speech, was an advocate for free speech. A lot of folks on the right are not happy with Pam Bondi's comments about pursuing speech and criminalizing speech. The memo hasn't reached Donald Trump, clearly, who in that clip accuses John Carl of, quote, your heart is full of a lot of hate. Your thoughts on this moment for journalists?

Nicole Wallace (19:45)

Well, it's a really delicate moment, obviously, for journalists. I think the purpose of this Times lawsuit is not about necessarily looking back and making these reporters pay for anything they've done, because, as Tim noted, it's ridiculous and meritless. I mean, some of the accusations, putting aside his fame in Home Alone 2 and WrestleMania, some of the accusations are just absurd and they don't form any foundation for a lawsuit like this. What this is really about is trying to dissuade future reporting around him and into his finances and into his politics. And it's meant to have a chilling effect on other public publications and news outlets, so that when they go about doing the type of reporting that traditionally is done for the President of the United States, they may think twice. And frankly, I worry that that's going to happen. I worry that outlets are going to say, well, do we really need to use that adjective or describe it that way, or do we even need to do that story? Because if we do, we risk getting hit with a lawsuit for, what was it, $15 billion. It's crazy. And then, of course, you see this bleeding in, not just into journalism but elsewhere. That press exchange, he went after a reporter from Australia saying it might affect diplomatic relations with the country because they asked a question that he didn't like. So it's bleeding into the other politics as well. The one upside of this, and I'll stop talking after this, is that when Pam Bondi did utter her comments trying to distinguish between free speech and hate speech, there's a torrent of pushback from people on the right who said, that's absurd, it doesn't make any sense, it's legally indefensible. And Bondi did have to walk back what she said. The problem, as you note, though, is that it's not Bondi who's just saying this, it's Trump who's echoing this. And when you file these frivolous suits, it's clear that he doesn't really see or care for any distinction.

Sam Stein (21:33)

I mean, Tim, you made a great point yesterday on social media that if anyone on the left in American politics had said any of the things that Vance said yesterday, it would be all that anyone talked about. Sam is correct that the reason the brakes may get put on some of what Vance and Trump are saying is because there's pushback on the right. But why isn't the left even a player in pushing back in terms of how we talk about or think about this stuff?

Tim Miller (21:58)

Yeah, I think it would be smart for the left to take up the mantle of free speech in this moment. And I think that at some level there definitely was an attempt in some corners of the left to cancel people over speech over the last few years. And I was opposed to that in most cases. This is a different category from that, though. This is the President of the United States telling a reporter, John Carl, who's a good, really good reporter, I bet some Democrats, Democrats would say he's a little tough for their taste too, telling him that he practices hate speech. You had J.D. vance telling people yesterday that if they see a mean tweet about Charlie Kirk that they should call the person's employer and rat them out. And you had Pam Bondi yesterday saying they should go after a hate speech. So look, I am not for hate speech. I am not for. I do not think people need to be smearing somebody that was just assassinated. But the idea that the federal government would use the power and levers of the government to target people through the Justice Department or to target people through their employer based on a tweet that they sent or a post that they posted on Instagram or Facebook or whatever, that is deeply chilling. It is anti free speech. And I do think it would be smart for someone to left to really try to recapture that mantle. So there's a big spirit in this country that is cross partisan of wanting to protect people's speech and not wanting people to fear the government going after them if they say something errant on social media. You're listening to leaffilter radio and the guru of gutter protection himself, Chris Counahan is here to take your most pressing leaf related questions.

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Chris Counahan (24:31)

Hey everybody, Chris here. I understand we have Ron on the line. Ron, where are you calling from?

Tim Miller (24:37)

Uh oh Ron, are you calling from a ladder? Well I was. I wanted to ask Chris what I need to do to get my gutters ready to have leaffilter installed.

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Tim Miller (24:57)

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