Tim Miller (2:09)

All these guys have like spent years talking about how terrible the Bush and the neocons are and how we need to focus on ourselves and they position themselves as isolationists. And you know, there's some shameless people, right? Like there are some people on Fox.

Political Commentator (possibly Tim Miller or another panelist) (2:24)

They'll just say whatever. I'll just. Cat turd will totally do a 180 and say, yes, sir, Mr. Trump, sir, whatever you want.

Tim Miller (2:31)

But a lot of these folks, they've built audiences, they built brand, they've built credibility. They're not going to just all of a sudden say, hell yeah, I want to overthrow the Ayatollah. And I think that, that like, you know, so we're going to see this kind of MAGA crack up happening that

Political Commentator (possibly Tim Miller or another panelist) (2:48)

Will and Sam were talking about at the elite level first and then it'll be interesting to see how that trickles down to the base voters and to the audience. But in this group, for example, you know, Piers gets this guy Ben Ferguson, who's like Ted Cruz's butt boy on his podcast, goes on CNN sometime like a real, like a C list influencer. Like, let's just be honest, he's the one that is getting all red faced and you know, kind of dressed like a Republican for the 1990s. That's the guy they found to defend what Trump is doing. I don't think he does so that compellingly. You can judge for yourself here in a minute.

Tim Miller (3:25)

Then you have Jack Posobiek. I thought he's the most interesting case

Political Commentator (possibly Tim Miller or another panelist) (3:28)

because Jack is about as shameless a pro Trump grifter as you can get.

Tim Miller (3:33)

But a couple months ago he did

Political Commentator (possibly Tim Miller or another panelist) (3:34)

this documentary, Tales of Regime Change documentary that goes back and looks at all the failed regime change efforts that Bush did in Syria and Iraq and Afghanistan. If you look at the picture, I didn't watch the Jack BOC documentary, I will say, but if you Zelensky's picture

Tim Miller (3:53)

is in there for some reason.

Political Commentator (possibly Tim Miller or another panelist) (3:55)

I don't, I don't really know why what would be there. That was where we were trying to do regime stability but defending existing regimes. But anyway, so Posovic's been out there, you know, as like a MAGA JD Vance type isolationist America first commentator. Also, you know, a Trump toe sucker. And so I was kind of fascinated that he showed up for this thing and he ends up being very, you know, he has hedging a lot. I guess let's just say he's talking about how younger voters in the magazine don't like this. Older Republican voters do. He's basically talking about how it's going to be event dependent and if Trump gets out, it could be okay. So he was, it was not, you know, kind of the apology, the unapologetic Trump supporting Pizzagate Jack that I've come to know and not love. And so then see at Ferguson you had Pizzagate Jack and then you had Dave Smith who's kind of like a pure MAGA isolationist. He's Been very radicalized anti Israel. I mean, like on the show he's, he's like talking about how America are the biggest terrorists in the world. So a little much for me. But, you know, he's one of these horseshoe figures, you know, that is so far right that, you know, he ends up sounding like code pink at times. So then you had me and, and then somebody else who's a Democratic influencer on there. So, but like, of that trio, you

Tim Miller (5:18)

know, basically like Trump, not just Trump voters, but Trump apologists, like passionate Trump voters and passionate Trump commentators. Of the three of them, like one

Political Commentator (possibly Tim Miller or another panelist) (5:28)

strong against one strong four, one waffle.

Tim Miller (5:32)

That's not good. That's not a good sign. They're only three days in. You know, the military operations here you want, like the first 24 hours was pretty impressive.

Political Commentator (possibly Tim Miller or another panelist) (5:40)

And so things haven't even really fully gone sideways yet. And obviously we have the four deaths of American soldiers and that's horrible and tragic, but just like as much as they could go sideways and they're already hemorrhaging key advocates. So it's something we're going to keep monitoring on here. Most of the back and forth we'll show you is between me and that guy Ben Ferguson, since he was really the only one kind of defending this nonsense. He was doing so just as incoherently as the Trump administration is because you can't coherently defend it because they don't have a coherent plan. So I'll leave that, I'll leave you at that. Subscribe to the feed here and enjoy the fireworks.

Piers Morgan (6:16)

Tim Miller, it seems like there's a lot of hoops being jumped here to try and explain what is to me, I've known Donald Trump a long time. There's been a clear change in his attitude towards meddling in foreign countries and foreign wars and in particular in the Middle East. And, you know, he might have perfectly good reasons for doing it, but it's certainly a very different rhetoric now that he's using to what he was using when he was campaigning to be re elected. The problem, it seems to me, with the attack on Iran is Iran is a massive country. It has a very ruthless, very large regime which basically extends to all aspects of Iranian society. There are at least 1 1/2 million revolutionary Guard, regular Army paramilitaries, possibly as many as 2 million, none of whom at the moment appear ready to throw in the towel as Donald Trump has asked them to. So if people do rise up in the way that Donald Trump would like, you know, his utopia is that all these airstrikes bully the regime in such a way that the people sense their moment and they rise up and they overthrow them. But at the moment, they would be facing a lot of them, immediate death, as we saw when the recent protests were repressed. And that seems to me to be the fundamental flaw here in what Donald Trump wants to happen and the reality on the ground.

Political Commentator (possibly Tim Miller or another panelist) (7:43)

A lot of that sounds right to me, Piers. Look, this is obviously a betrayal of his campaign promises. I mean, that MAGA supporters can spin it however they want, but JD Vance, in that clip you played, was just very blunt about this. And there's nothing that has changed on the ground making Iran a bigger threat since fall of 2024. In fact, Iran's been degraded a lot since fall of 2024. And so this is a total betrayal of his own voters.

Tim Miller (8:06)

But to the actual plan here, I think what Ben just laid out is totally incoherent. If the idea here is that this is a moment where the Iranian people have an opportunity to grab their own freedom and we're going to help them. Okay, well, that requires troops on the ground. I mean, like, that would be a coherent objective. At least. We want to free the Iranian, the Ayatollah. We're not saying that we're gonna do that. Pete Hegseth was out saying that this is not a regime change operation and

Political Commentator (possibly Tim Miller or another panelist) (8:37)

we are not doing democracy promotion.

Tim Miller (8:39)

Pete Hegseth said that. So we can't both be on the side of the Iranian people and also not be interested in a regime change,

Political Commentator (possibly Tim Miller or another panelist) (8:47)

war, and democracy promotion like you have

Tim Miller (8:49)

to do one or the other. The Iranian people cannot overthrow just really

Piers Morgan (8:56)

health matters above anything else. There's no doubt about that. And sometimes being told you're fine with no real plan is simply not good enough. Well, Superpower puts you in control with all the data you need. One simple lab test, either at your home or a local lab, measures more than 100 biomarkers. And the Superpower app lets you see everything from heart to hormones, vitamin levels, and even environmental toxins. You get a personalized, actionable plan which is tailored uniquely for you. Make this the year you stop guessing about your health. Not only has Superpower reduced their price to just $199, but for a limited time, our viewers and listeners get an additional $20 off with the Code Peers P I E R s. Head to superpower.com and use code PEERS at checkout for $20 off your membership. And after you sign up, be sure to mention that I sent you. Tim. I would simply say to you. Syria. I mean, in Syria, very recently, we saw the overthrow of Bashar al Assad very, very quickly, and it was actually driven by the people. Now, there are legitimate concerns about the leader of the rebel group. But so far, you know, you would say tentatively it's been an improvement on what the Syrian people were enduring under Assad. But, you know, it's going to be a long along.

Tim Miller (10:16)

Sure, Pierce, but certainly, certainly.

Piers Morgan (10:18)

But that was a. But that was it. But my point being the United States objective was achieved there without boots on the ground, wasn't it?

Tim Miller (10:26)

Well, do you not know that was

Political Commentator (possibly Tim Miller or another panelist) (10:27)

Turkey's objective in the United States? That was not our objective.

Tim Miller (10:30)

We were like Turkey armed a rebel group in Syria. Is that what we're going to do? Okay, again, that would be a coherent plan. Like, we have picked a group, Pompeo said over the weekend. We like the MEK or the Kurds or whoever, we're going to arm them and provide them weapons and intelligence. That's what Turkey did. And I think they ended up having

Political Commentator (possibly Tim Miller or another panelist) (10:47)

kind of catastrophic success in Syria. I don't even think that Turkey planned on that group so easily toppling the Assad regime.

Tim Miller (10:54)

Again, maybe that could happen in Iran. The point that I'm trying to make peers is that there is no coherent objective being offered by this administration. Like you have Ben Ferguson on right now saying that what they want is freedom for the Iranian people. That's not what Pete Hegseth was saying this morning. That's not Donald Trump.

Ben Ferguson (11:10)

That's really good.

Tim Miller (11:11)

One more thing. Just one more thing, Donald Trump. Think of the incoherence. If I do one more thing, then you can talk, Ben. One more thing. Donald Trump said that he, like you, pointed to Venezuela and talked about how successful that is. This is very different from Venezuela. A couple reasons. Number one, four people have already died. That didn't happen in Venezuela. Number two, we had a clear successor. Donald Trump told the New York Times that we had two or three successors in mind. All of them are dead. They've all been killed. He said to the Atlantic and or to John Carl, I think at ABC last night that we don't know who

Political Commentator (possibly Tim Miller or another panelist) (11:40)

the successor is now.

Tim Miller (11:41)

So this is very much not a Venezuela situation. It is not a regime change.

Ben Ferguson (11:45)

I refer to Venezuela about troops on the ground in response to that. And I think you're intellectually honest enough to understand that. I don't think I have to explain it to you like a third grader. I think you're now just trying to act like Venezuela and Iran are the same thing. They're very different places. That is obvious.

Tim Miller (11:58)

You were the one that said that

Ben Ferguson (11:59)

Venezuela was very simple. We had troops go in and take out the leader and then we left. That's the same thing that we're talking about now.

Tim Miller (12:08)

Well, four troops have died in this case. So it's already very different than that. It's already very different than that. Four troops have died again, it's already very different. And we don't even have a success.

Ben Ferguson (12:16)

Dying for a political point you're trying to score. I know you don't like the president. I know you don't like this plan, but let me also say this about what's the plan? There are two objectives here. I'm going to tell you the two objectives since you put words in my mouth. Number one is to make sure you take out a regime that is sponsoring terrorism all over the world and has made it very clear that they want to do what they did in Israel also in America and other places. So it's a national security standpoint there. It's also a national security standpoint with oil and the Strait of Hormuz as well. That's very clear. They're worried about that area as well. And the third is. Yes. When you get rid of someone like this, of course you want the people to be able to be free in their country and not be able to be killed in the streets like we've witnessed where tens of thousands of them have been exterminated in the last month while they tried to stand up to their regime. So there can be multiple things here. Is that different than Venezuela? Of course, because every nation is different. I think you should know that.

Political Commentator (possibly Tim Miller or another panelist) (13:10)

Yeah.

Tim Miller (13:11)

Okay. That doesn't sound like a plan because

Political Commentator (possibly Tim Miller or another panelist) (13:13)

we don't hang on to regime is.

Piers Morgan (13:15)

Hang on, hang on. I want to bring in the other panel members. I mean, I would categorize it, Tim, more as a massive roll of a dice by Donald Trump. I think he's been persuaded about the timing by Netanyahu and the Israeli government, who've been itching to do this now for a very long time. I'm not saying that Trump doesn't think it would be a good thing for the world. I think he probably does. But I think the timing is so fascinating to me that. And the reason I say a roll of a dice is because politically, the downside if this goes even remotely wrong or just gets stuck for the next few months is so clear to me. This could absolutely cost Trump everything in terms of political power come November. And once he becomes Somebody without control of the House. As Ben said, your ability to do anything just gets paralyzed until the end of your term. So the stakes are incredibly high. But there is another way to look at this, which is Trump has been pretty uniquely successful in doing precision attacks on the foreign stage. Whether it's Soleimani when he took him out, whether it's Al Baghdadi when he took him out, whether it was the 12 day war last summer, time and again, whether it's bringing a ceasefire to Gaza and nobody really thought there was a chance of that. Venezuela, time and again Trump has gone in and done quick surgical strikes on places. It's been a very different philosophy to boots on the ground years in war and so on. And that's probably emboldened him to do this and he's probably calculating that he, by taking out the entire hierarchy of this regime, which appears to be what's happened to the extent where the next two, three, four and five people they thought might be potential next leaders apparently all got killed too. Even the ex president Ahmadinejad, who I once interviewed, has been killed apparently. So a complete wipeout of all the sort of top names in the Iranian regime that he's calculating. This could lead to a domino effect where you could see the regime getting toppled because actually a number of the Revolutionary Guard perhaps turn on it, the army, regular army follow. Suddenly the people feel that this is moving the right way and as we saw in Syria, boom, suddenly there. I know, look, I'm not saying this will happen, but I'm saying we have seen this happen in different places around the world and it can happen very quickly if people feel like if the ones supporting the regime believe it's going down. And the people sense that these things can change very quickly. So you could be in a position by the summer where Donald Trump actually has affected genuine change there. The people have risen up and Iran is removed of a 47 year repressive regime. And that could play well for Trump and it could lead to the Abraham Accords, having Saudi Arabia join it and others. Because I do think the big strategic error Iran has made is attacking the Gulf states. And I think the moment they've done that, they've lined up all these places like uae, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and others lined up now behind an America Israel pact going into Iran, which I didn't think I'd ever see. So I think a lot of things are possible here. Tim, your response to my comments.

Political Commentator (possibly Tim Miller or another panelist) (16:31)

Yeah.

Tim Miller (16:32)

Just how strained that hypothetical case of how it could possibly go well is,

Political Commentator (possibly Tim Miller or another panelist) (16:39)

I think speaks to Just political disaster.

Tim Miller (16:42)

And the danger of this situation for Trump, like, sure, yeah, obviously he's high on his own supply because some of

Political Commentator (possibly Tim Miller or another panelist) (16:47)

these other, you know, one off strikes have gone well, this is obviously very different than that. Yes, obviously he's being influenced by MBS and BB to a degree that they might be just kind of walking around the dog park at this point, convincing him to get into this.

Tim Miller (16:59)

But this is such a different scenario than all of those other scenarios as mentioned earlier. And thanks, Dave, for the update on the language, but like four American troops are already dead. And again, like, for what? Like in your strange scenario, the best case scenario is that maybe in the future there'll be an internal struggle in Iran and a regime that we like better, but we don't know who it is, we'll be taking control. If you polled the American people just two weeks ago and said, hey, would it be worth four American deaths for the possibility that maybe Iran might get a better regime, but we're not sure who it is, I think that would be like a 20 to 80. Only 20% of the country, like Ben and a couple of his buddies would be for that. Most of the Republicans wouldn't be for that. And look at this panel. Jack was one of Trump's biggest supporters. He's hedging on this. You know, in his answer. I supported him. Dave was one of Trump's biggest supporters. He's even more hostile than me against this. He's calling us terrorists. I'm not even that far among Trump's own base. This is a disaster. Independent voters, you look at polls of all ages. Last independent poll I saw had 19% in support of this among independents. And the best case scenario you can point out is that like, maybe there'll be some new leadership, but we don't know who it is and we're not supporting a particular person. Like, that's a crazy, that's crazy. It's a crazy risk. And sure, yeah, the Arab states are with us for now, but are they going to continue to be if their hotels and their oil reserves are being bombed? Are the people of UAE and Qatar and Saudi as on board with this as their leadership? I'm skeptical of that. What about our European allies? Oil prices in Europe are up 50% today and this thing is already a disaster. We're on day three and they have no plan for getting out of it. It's like we're going to bomb them for four more weeks and hope that something good happens. Good luck.

Bretzky (18:50)

What's up, baby? It's Bretzky and I'm here to tell you that spinquest.com is giving out free Sweets coins. All you got to do is purchase a $10 coin pack and guess what? They're going to give you the coins from a $30 coin pack that lets you you play all your favorite games like Blackjack, Wanted, Dead or Wild, and we're talking real cash prizes, baby. Spin Quest.com Spin Quest is a free

Tim Miller (19:14)

to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.