C (5:30)

Tim Miller, your thoughts on this moment for Donald Trump and Marjorie Taylor Greene.

B (5:37)

Look, you laid out nicely in the beginning how this is similar to how some have in the Republican Party have spoken out against Trump and then retired in the past. And we're seeing that trend continue which at some level shows that he still has a hold over the party. I think the element that's different that is most interesting is the language that she and stepping aside and you know, I'll leave it to Greg through his reporting and to psychologists to like determine what is happening in her brain and how serious she is about this and what exactly motivating it. But it just taking the language at face value, she is basically saying that I wanted to do work on behalf of the MAGA base that Donald Trump had promised he was going to work for. And I couldn't do it because Congress was never in session and because the elites within the party have succumbed to the influence game of Washington, to the deep state, to the tech elites. That's essentially her argument. You always heard from the populace, from the MAGA populace. One common critique was that there was this uniparty in Washington. Democrats and Republicans might disagree on certain issues but at the end they were on the side of the rich, they were on the side of the know, military and the security state and they were on the side of corporations. They weren't on the side of you. Well now Marjorie Taylor Greene is saying that's Donald Trump. You know, he had promised you that he was gonna be different. He's an outsider that was gonna go after those institutions but he's been co opted by them and he want and he likes partying with them. So she didn't use him by name. But like in the statement that's very clear what she's talking about and that is powerful and that is very different from the other people that have separated from Donald Trump in the past because she's coming at him from the place of his core base of support and his core strength. And if even 5% of the Maga base agree with her, if more do even better. But if even 5% or 10% agree with her, that is crippling to Donald Trump's power. That is the first time that he would actually lose the people that powered his rise. And so in that sense, I think it was a powerful resignation statement. I think probably would have been more powerful. She was making that argument from within the halls of Congress. But the interesting thing to watch will be if other people start to echo that message.

C (8:03)

Tim, are we bearing the lead here? She speaks about it as a foregone conclusion that Democrats take over the House and that Trump is impeached.

B (8:14)

Well, the impeachment would end up being, I think, a political judgment by the Democrats. But we probably are bearing the lead as far as a lot of Republicans on the Hill have already been basically conceded the midterms. And there's super interesting reporting today from Punchbowl DC which is kind of a Capitol Hill insider outlet. And basically a number of Republicans were calling them after Marjorie Taylor Greene's letter came out saying essentially I might not agree with her on all the particulars and she might have these various unique issues, but the core of her argument is correct. We are doing nothing. We are not serving people. We are about to be in the minority. And I'm annoyed too. And essentially that was the message. There were a lot of that there will be maybe more Republican retirements coming because Republicans on the Hill see the writing on the wall that, that, that the Democrats are going to win next year and, and you know, it's worth it to stay in Congress even if you're in the minority, if you feel like you're fighting for something, if you feel like you're doing something. And I think that a lot of Republicans on the Hill don't feel like they're doing anything. They're just ornamentation to Donald Trump's authoritarian takeover. And if it's going to be another one year slog to their own defeat, well then maybe others will follow her to the exits. That was what Punchbowl is reporting. And that I think seems like a reasonable assessment of where we are. Things could change, obviously, but I think that things are looking very bad politically for the Republicans on the Hill.

C (9:33)

I mean, Tim, how I know we've had this conversation about Marjorie Taylor Greene and you and I are sort of, you know, battered ex Republicans who'll take anyone to come in the boat and row toward democracy that we can get. But David Frum is skeptical and I just want to platform his, his critique. Gullible as Greene was about crackpot theories and her political associations, she seems to have been clear eyed about her own direct personal interests. Marjorie Taylor Greene was one of the most active and successful stock traders in Congress. In a number of cases betting for against companies about which she likely had advance information. She timed her resignation to take effect two days after her congressional pension vested. She's Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. Only if the cinematic Mr. Smith had returned home to Montana hugely enriched by timely speculations on land holdings near the Boy Ranger camp he championed. But she never did get the joke on the biggest joke in town, the joke that MAGA is about anything more than manipulation, exploitation, corruption, lust and cruelty. She seems to have sincerely believed the lies that shrewder players merely mouthed. She gained her own millions without appreciating that her allies were scheming for billions. What do you think? Fair?

B (10:45)

I think, oh, well, sure, it's a fair critique of Marjorie Taylor Greene. She deserves to be critiqued. I guess the one place where I would part ways a little bit with David is that line that he says where you know, that she was surprised that other people didn't believe what she sincerely believed. If that is true, that is important in itself, right? I mean, she could be somewhat corrupt at a small scale compared to the Trumpian corruption, and she could be conspiratorial and I'm sure opportunistic and all those things. But it is telling that if somebody that earnestly believed in the populist part of MAGA populism and was a genuine part of the movement, genuine to such a degree that she was a MAGA conspiracy poster on Facebook before she went to Congress, I mean, that is as core of a MAGA as you could be. She was for Trump back in the primary when everybody else was against. If somebody like that can go to Washington, be on the inside of the MAGA movement, look around and say, we're not actually doing anything. And, you know, maybe I got a little bit of mine and maybe I also got some attention, but I also believed this stuff. I like, I believe the populist right wing stuff. And none of you guys do. That's important. Like, that's important. Even if she is opportunistic, you know, that is important. If she's also corrupt, it's still like a very meaningful departure. And the fact that it seems like me and David agrees she sincerely believed it, I think, is why it's politically significant.

C (12:13)

Tim, I want to come back to you on these sort of three pillars you could build in our campaign days. You could build an entire campaign around these three things that she said. The price of everything at the grocery store, the price of your electricity bills and ACA premiums. And then add onto it for good measure, a business owner's perspective on the irrationality and insanity of mass deportations. I mean, you have the current Democratic Party encapsulates all those policies. But I wonder where you think she's positioning herself in the Republican Party.

B (12:48)

Yeah, well, look, I think I agree with Molly as far as where she's positioning herself within the Republican Party. I think I have no idea what she's planning for next, but I think that what she's trying to do is say, look, real MAGA populism hasn't been tried, right. And that is going to include some pretty crazy cultural and social views. And I think that the same statement that I'm going to give some compliments to also decried the transing of people like using that as a verb in a derogatory way. She remains to have some crazy views. I think she also said that we should cut the capital gains tax for people, which isn't very popular. So it's a grab back. But the elements that I think are useful to learn from if you're a Democrat or tell us where she would be trying to differentiate herself within the Republican coalition is saying, look, I'm trying to focus on bread and butter issues, economic populist issues, about things that are things that are costing too much for regular people while rich people are doing well. And I think that the Republican Party is focused too much on the wealthy and the Democratic Party is focused too much on caring about these cultural mores. I'm going to be the person that's focused on you. I don't know that Marjorie Taylor Greene is going to be the vessel for that message, but I think that that's a powerful message that could work in either party.

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