Tim Miller: People Will Be ASHAMED for Being Involved in This

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Episode: Tim Miller: People Will Be ASHAMED for Being Involved in This
Date: October 8, 2025
Host: The Bulwark team (mainly Tim Miller, “Timo,” Nicole, plus clips/mentions of Tom Nichols, Kevin Clancy, and others)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Bulwark Takes tackles the escalating crisis surrounding the deployment of Texas National Guard troops to Chicago against the wishes of local officials, and the broader use of force and propaganda by the Trump administration in cities and against immigrants. Tim Miller (“Timo”), Nicole, and featured guests discuss the dangerous normalization of state violence, the cowardice of Congress, the importance of cultural resistance (including a notable segment on country singer Zach Bryan’s protest song), and whether Americans will eventually be ashamed for supporting or tolerating these actions. The tone is urgent, angry, and deeply concerned about the state of democracy, but also hopeful that cultural pushback can be a rallying point.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Escalation of Force: National Guard Deployed to Chicago

• [07:32 - 09:38]
  • “This actually very moment feels different... Texas National Guard troops have landed in Illinois, as Tom [Nichols] mentioned, and it's, they've landed there against the wishes of the Illinois governor.” — Timo
  • Tim Miller and Timo discuss how unprecedented this is since the Civil Rights era; the last time National Guards were deployed against a governor’s will was to enforce civil rights against segregationist states.
  • The action is depicted as a raw power grab, happening not in response to necessity but as a show of dominance by Trump and allies.

2. Weakness of Congress and the Enabling of Authoritarian Tactics

• [09:38 - 11:46]
  • “What's being revealed... is the weakness of everybody else. I don't think Trump looks strong. I think the Republican-led Congress looks completely flaccid and impotent and lame.” — Tim Miller
  • Republican members of Congress are called out for previously opposing federal overreach but now remaining silent. Timo brings up the firing of prosecutors as another example of unchecked power and lack of accountability.

3. Real-Life Consequences & Use of Fear

• [11:46 - 13:16]
  • The podcast airs newly obtained video footage showing masked, militarized police in Chicago detaining a woman on the streets, further illustrating the tactics being normalized.
  • Memorable exchange:
    • “You don't get to be in a mask. You have to tell us who you are... If you're representing the government, you don't get to do it in a mask or in secret.” — Timo [14:41]

4. Culture, Shame, and the Power of Artistic Protest

• [01:31 - 05:12], [15:35 - 17:33]
  • Nicole and Timo discuss the use (and misuse) of Zach Bryan's song “Revival” by the Department of Homeland Security as background for footage of immigrant detentions.
  • Nicole reads aloud lyrics from the song, emphasizing its themes of redemption and community—juxtaposed with its use as “soundtrack for chaining people and ripping them away.”
    • “Our government is using it as the soundtrack for chaining people and ripping them away from their community... They're using it to advance their agenda of submission and vengeance and retribution. I fucking hate it.” — Nicole [04:15]
  • Nicole and Timo both stress the history of American resistance to tyranny and how culture—especially music—has often been the rallying point for justice.
  • “This is about a flawed man who wants redemption... and through community can do better, could be reborn. That’s what the song is about.” — Nicole [04:15]
    • The anger about the co-optation of “Revival” leads to a broader discussion about cultural pushback.
  • Connection to Barstool Sports: Being opposed to masked police detentions (“If he's lost country music and he's lost Barstool...”) signals how out-of-step such tactics are with mainstream culture.

5. Grassroots Backlash and Hope for Change

• [13:16 - 15:35]
  • Despite elite accommodation, real everyday protest is happening. Community members in Chicago are confronting and documenting masked officials.
  • “That part hasn’t worked so far... There have been protests. There’ll be another round of No Kings protests... You see the community reaction in Chicago.” — Timo [13:39]
  • The podcast predicts that people will eventually be ashamed of their roles in these actions and that broad-based cultural opposition can still rally Americans.

6. Democratic Response and the Need for Backbone

• [16:12 - 17:33]
  • Timo criticizes Democrats for being afraid to engage the immigration issue head-on, arguing it is deeply unpopular and out of line with American values.
  • “I do think the Democrats need to get a stiff in their spine on this and talk about this issue. It’s really Notable that Zach Ryan... made a protest song about ICE... If he feels comfortable doing that... then Democrats should feel very comfortable talking about it, too.” — Timo [17:14]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “People are going to be so ashamed. People are going to be so ashamed of themselves.”
  — Nicole [02:55], on participation in the administration’s propaganda and violence.
• “You don't fix their souls. I don't know... but look, I don't. I think that there's something just—this is about power and trying to stamp out dissent.”
  — Timo [13:39], addressing the cruelty in celebrating state violence.
• “The only good news... is that people don't want to be on the side of the boot... in the American spirit, the American tradition... people have wanted to be the ones that are fighting against the Boot.”
  — Nicole [05:11]
• “If you think [masked raids are good], you're an absolute bat crazy person.”
  — Kevin Clancy (Barstool host), via Timo [16:30]
• “For [the administration] to try to take that and take a song that is about redemption and giving people a second chance and make it about, like, submission and chaining people and vengeance—it is gross. People don’t like it and they're going to respond negatively to it.”
  — Timo [17:29]

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:31 - 05:12] – Nicole and Timo break down the Zach Bryan “Revival” song controversy and its misuse.
• [07:32 - 09:38] – Discussion on the deployment of Texas National Guard in Illinois and historical implications.
• [11:46 - 13:16] – Reporter presents new video of masked officials detaining civilians in Chicago.
• [13:16 - 15:35] – Timo talks about protest and community pushback in Chicago, cultural legacy of resistance.
• [15:35 - 16:12] – Tim Miller links the importance of culture in any successful resistance movement.
• [16:12 - 17:33] – Timo, referencing country music and Barstool Sports, calls for Democrats to step up on the immigration issue.

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Tone and Flow

The tone throughout is notably urgent, emotionally charged, and frank, with hosts and guests sometimes expressing anger and disgust over administration actions and propaganda, while also looking for strands of hope in grassroots and cultural backlash. The language is passionate, informal, and laced with expletives, mirroring the seriousness and frustration the speakers feel about the political crisis.

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Useful for anyone seeking to understand:

• The current (2025) crisis over National Guard deployments and state/federal conflicts
• The role of culture and protest in challenging authoritarian tactics
• How mainstream American culture (country music, sports, etc.) factors into conversations about democracy and civil liberties
• The hosts’ perspective: deep anger and alarm at present events, but also a belief in the power of cultural resistance

Transcript

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[Nicole]

Hey everybody.

[Timo]

Timo from the Bulwark here. I was on Nicole for a whole hour and it was. It's a lot, man.

[Nicole]

There's so much happening right now. It takes a toll on you emotionally sometimes.

[Timo]

But we talked about Jacob Silver's great.

[Nicole]

Reporting from Chicago, just about these tragic stories of people getting snatched off the street by these mass dogs.

[Timo]

And we kind of talked big picture about that.

[Nicole]

Tom Nichols, my pal, was on as well about kind of what the rationale is from the administration, what they're trying.

[Timo]

To get out of this, the power.

[Nicole]

Grab, how that can be pushed back against.

[Timo]

And then it ended with a conversation.

[Nicole]

About Zach Brian and his song about ice. And I talked about it quite, quite a lot on the show. But I want to, I want to give you a little bit more actually background.

[Timo]

As I say, I don't. I'm not a Zach Ryan fan.

[Nicole]

I don't know that I've even heard one of his songs before today. Maybe I have just don't know it. I do remember that Beto told me he was a Zach Bryan fan. So maybe think maybe I should check him out. But I never, I never have. And I do know that he sells out massive, massive stadiums. He's mass market, right? Like he. So obviously there are red mega Americans that like Zach Bryan. And so the first, I think the.

[Timo]

First song of his I ever heard.

[Nicole]

At least knowingly was this song Revival, which I guess he, he ends his sets with according to one of my buddies. And, and, and the DHS used that song to troll him and they didn't play the clip on msnbc and I really hate it. I really hate the clip. So part of me doesn't want to play it for you, but I think we should watch. This is what our government is putting out, this fucking Nazi propaganda that we're doing. People are going to be so ashamed. People are going to be so ashamed of themselves.

[Timo]

I just.

[Nicole]

I'll tell you this.

[Timo]

I don't know if we ever get out of this or not.

[Nicole]

But I'll tell you this though. Someday in the future somebody will lie about whether or not they were participating in this video. And I'm going to do a greater takeout on just the fucking disgusting propaganda that's come from our Department of Homeland Security. Just truly some of the worst, most despicable agit prop that we've seen in the modern era. And what they're doing is just noxious. It just makes you want to spit on the ground. So I'll be doing more on that. But this song revival, it's really moving. I can see why he ends the sense with it. I want to read a little bit from it. Your transgressions are mine as well. Anger grows in my bones if you could not tell But I'll find comfort in company. Lord forgive us, My boys and me, we're having an all night revival. Someone call the women and someone steal the Bible. For the sake of my survival. But for the sake of my survival. This is what this is about. This is about a flawed man who wants redemption, who wants his friends around.

[Timo]

Him.

[Nicole]

Maybe wants to read a little bit of the Bible and wants to come out of the other side knowing that he had done bad. But through community can do better, could be reborn. That's what that song is about. Our government is using it as the soundtrack for chaining people and ripping them away from their community, ripping them away from their family and ensuring they have no chance at redemption. They're using it to advance their agenda of submission and vengeance and retribution. I fucking hate it. I fucking hate it. The only good news then we'll get to Nicole. The only good news is that people don't want to be on the side of the boot. Some people do, but overall most people.

[Timo]

Don'T want to be on the side.

[Nicole]

Of the fucking boot that's on the neck, right? At least in the American spirit, the American tradition and the country music tradition and the comedian tradition and the free speech tradition and the mainstream American tradition, people have wanted to be the ones that are fighting against the Boot. They're saying no to the Boot. And I think hopefully Maybe little things like what Zach Bryan is doing can be a rallying cry for folks against the boot. So stick around.

[Timo]

Subscribe to the feed.

[Nicole]

We'll be seeing you all soon.

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[Tim Miller]

Tim Miller how do you see this moment and this week feels different? I mean we talk every week. This escalation in Chicago and attempted escalation in Portland does feel different.

[Timo]

It does. This actually very moment feels different, right? I was looking at social media before I got on and you know we.

[Tim Miller]

Have God bless you. God bless you for looking. I can't bring myself to look. Tell me what it says.

[Timo]

Unfortunately, I'm not doing it, you know, just for kicks. I just feel like I should know what's happening before I come on. But thank you. I'm doing my besticle. But the Texas National Guard troops have landed in, in Illinois, as Tom mentioned, and it's, they've landed there against the wishes of the Illinois governor. And you don't want to be bombastic about this and start using words like civil war, because they haven't actually done anything yet. Who knows, we'll just walk around and, and do, and mulch, you know, the public parks like they were doing in D.C. but like, we are in a place. And this has not happened since the Civil Rights act has not happened in our lifetime. The last time the federal government or other states sent National Guards into a state against the governor's will was to enforce the Civil Rights act against the segregationist Southern states. And that is where we are right now. It is at that level of crisis, and it is happening apropos of basically nothing. It is happening only because the President of the United States and his accolades, Stephen Miller, want to signal their power, as Tom Nichols was pointing out, but also grab as much power as they can throughout both the federal government and now across the states. And so to me, I think that's what, that's different. And there's the ICE stories and the stuff that Jacob has been talking about is so tragic and horrible and really affecting. That, as he said, has been something that's been going on for a while now. This effort to send these Texas troops into Chicago is a real inflection point.

[Tim Miller]

Tim. I keep hearing people say Trump is so strong and emboldened. I actually think what's being revealed through the X ray of our country's, sort of the country's MRI is the weakness of everybody else. I don't think Trump looks strong. I think the Republican led Congress looks completely flaccid and impotent and lame. Like none of them should have a case to make to their own constituents that they've done anything. And to not uphold these basic, never before this moment, disputed norms of the vision that the founders had for our country. I saw an interview that you did with Kent Burns that what the founders didn't imagine is that Congress would take themselves off the field.

[Timo]

Yeah, it is pretty astonishing. I mean, at least I don't, I can't get inside the minds and hearts of Republicans in Congress when it comes to this National Guard deployment. And a lot of them had said that they were opposed it in past lives and Obama and Biden were president and they had like, imaginary fantasies about Obama invading Texas. There's like a whole Jade Helm conspiracy around all of that. That's a deep cut for folks who are in the Fox orbit 15 years ago. So they said they were opposed to it. But there are other areas where like we know they're opposed to it, where Donald Trump is grabbing power right now and where their weakness is just so shocking. You know, one thing that I think about is the firing, you know, of these, these prosecutors, you know, in the Eastern District of Virginia. You know, we fired these folks who are, who are currently prosecuting terrorists that are allegedly responsible for the deaths of 13American soldiers in, in Afghanistan. The point person on that prosecution was fired because I guess Pam Bondi and Donald Trump didn't want to have somebody around that they didn't think was fully on board. They don't really have even evidence of this. This person was just smeared on social media. So they just fired them. Like they don't have confidence of anybody within there who dissents at all. And these guys at Congress, you would think they would be opposed to that. The Republicans in Congress want to have these terrorists prosecuted, and yet they're all silent right now in the face of this.

[Reporter]

As we've been on the air, Nicole, just to Tom Nichols point, we have got some more video in that shows how the Trump administration is already trying to normalize force and fear and disorder on the streets of American cities with militarized police forces. Let's pull this up. This is a video that happened again. I told you the story. Just around the corner from here. Watch this. This is a neighborhood literally, I think five, five minutes walk from where I am right now. Berwin in Berwyn, 24th and Lombard. Today, 1109am they took a woman walking on the sidewalk moments after they recorded this video. This comes to us from the Chicago alliance against Racist and Political Repression, a group that's been part of the Rapid response Network. You can see exactly what's happening on your screen right now. Troops on American streets taken. Taking a woman off the streets with this show of force.

[Tim Miller]

What, what did. I mean, what did they say they took her for? Just again, racial profiling.

[Timo]

What's the reason they're stopping me?

[Reporter]

Yeah, there it was. I mean, they obviously didn't say to me, but listen to what they're saying.

[Timo]

All right? Otherwise we're going to arrest you for impeding your arit. I'm not impeding. We're getting, you know, the first warning and last warning. Okay, you got that? What are your guys names? This right here. Do you guys have a name for this is the name 306. Stop following us. Next time is not gonna be a warning. You got. I'm not doing anything wrong. I'm not breaking any laws right here. It doesn't matter, Tim.

[Tim Miller]

It feels like doing all the things Tom talked about, calling it out, is a vital piece of this. But what is the sickness that makes Kristi Noem say she gets off on watching these raids, and this is content that she loves? And I think Stephen Miller's wife said something similar. How do you fix that in the human soul?

[Timo]

You don't fix their souls. I don't know. The Kristi Noem soul. Well, I guess we're all redeemable, but I don't know that. We've got a ton of hope for Kristi Noem, but maybe she can change her ways. But look, I don't. I think that there's something just. Tom was talking about how this was about power and trying to stamp out dissent. I think it is worth noting, like, that part hasn't worked so far, actually. You know, I mean, at the elite level, people have become weakened. But there have been protests. There'll be another round of no Kings protests that I expect to be very big coming up here in a couple of weeks. We'll see how it turns out. With voting, a lot of times, these efforts to stifle it end up backfiring. You see the community reaction in Chicago, and it's in videos of people, you know, kind of go protect, trying to protect their neighbors from these sorts of attacks. That guy with the video going up to these masked officials. So, like, that part is working. You're seeing some backlash. I mean, not as much as we would want. Even in some Trump corners, people that have been friendly to Trump about, like, these masked officials and the deportations, and we're talking about the country music singer later. And so you're seeing some pushback to that, and for good reason, because that doesn't. It doesn't look like America. I just think. One other thing I just have to say watching that video, so sick is these masked guys going after people on the streets of Chicago like, that is not America. You don't get to be in a mask. You have to tell us who you are. There are many people that put themselves at risk on behalf of the country that are at threat. And there's that judge in South Carolina whose house was just. Just set on fire recently. I don't know what we're. They're still investigating what that was. But like judges, prosecutors, all of us, many people put themselves at risk. And if you're representing the government, you don't get to do it in a Mask or in secret, like that is part of public service. And, and I think that, that there is. People are gonna be mass outrage against this because people just get it instinctually that this is wrong. Videos like this are wrong.

[Tim Miller]

Tim Miller. I think this is so important because the sort of the history of pushing back when it works, it's always interconnected with culture. And there's actually, I can't find any example of the resistance or the opposition or the comeback that has succeeded without being tied in to culture and moving people not just through politicians and campaigns and elections, but through culture. And I thought your conversation. Let me play it. This is your interview with Barstool Hoage host Kevin Clancy. I thought this was really notable as well.

[Timo]

A lot of Democrats are kind of scared to talk about immigration because they've like internalized that, like Biden at the border, which he did, and that immigration's winning issue for Trump. And so they shouldn't talk about it because it's like, it's a loser for them. And I'm kind of like, I don't know, man. I think that, like, most media middle the road. People don't want mass dudes taking people that are gardening.

[Commercial Narrator]

I think you're pretty crazy if you think that. Like, I think you're an absolute bat crazy person if you're like, that's good.

[Tim Miller]

So if he's lost country music and he's lost barstool, why isn't there more sense of, of we're on the offense on, on the other side? And why isn't it reflected sort of in the, in the body language of Democrats?

[Timo]

Yeah, sorry for all the bleeps and that.

[Tim Miller]

I love you. I love the whole thing. And I, you know, I don't know. I don't think I have it, but I love when he says everyone at Barstool is a liberal and you're like, what? What? So I'm asking about that. But this is interesting. Like, like nobody's for this. And if you think they are, you're bat bleep crazy.

[Timo]

Yeah, and I think that's right. I mean, some people are for it, obviously it's a big country, but just huge swaths of the country are not for this type of immigration. Maybe they should have seen the mass deportation now signs and known this was coming and not voted for Trump. I get it. I understand the frustration, democr. But it is extremely unpopular and I do think the Democrats need to get a stiff in their spine on this and talk about this issue. And I think it's really Notable that Zach Ryan is a country music singer, made the protest song about ice. It could have been about anything, but he made it about immigration. And Zach Ryan is. I just don't pretend like I'm a big fan of him. I'm not. He's a mainstream country singer. My friends went to his show in football stadiums, right? So it's not like he's a niche kind of liberal indie country artist. Like, he's singing in massive football stadiums. And this is what he wanted to talk about. And so if he feels comfortable doing that, there are obviously Trump voters in those stadiums, then Democrats should feel very comfortable talking about it, too. And I think it's a really important issue, and it's a way people can to win people over. Just one other thing with this about the grotesqueness of the administration and Kristi Noem's soul that we were talking about, which I appreciate you didn't play, but they. To troll Zach Brian, they put out a post, our Department of Homeland Security, our country's Department of Homeland Security, playing one of his songs called Revival over, like, the chaining of immigrants. And it was a way to troll him, I guess, for pushing back on this. And that song, which I didn't know before, but I went and read up on and learned about, is about somebody that's had struggles, somebody that maybe has been to prison and somebody that's had redemption and found redemption in their life through the Bible and through family and their friends and maybe drinking and community. And that is like a song, I guess, he plays at the end of every set. And for this, our administration, to try to take that and take a song that is about redemption and giving people a second chance and make it about, like, submission and chaining people and vengeance. It is gross. And people don't like it and they're going to respect, respond negatively to it. And I think that it's important to have people like Zach Bryan out there making, you know, delivering that message, because I think it's going to resonate with people, people like you said, if it's resonating with the barstool guys and country music singers singing to football stadiums, surely, you know, it should be something that the Democrats know resonates broadly.