Tim Miller: Pete Hegseth is Getting Shredded in Right-Wing Media

Summary

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Bulwark Takes – Detailed Episode Summary

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Host: The Bulwark
Episode Title: Tim Miller: Pete Hegseth is Getting Shredded in Right-Wing Media
Date: October 24, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth discussion on key topics in the current U.S. political landscape. Tim Miller recaps his recent appearance on MSNBC, focusing on three central issues: the ongoing government shutdown and its political fallout, the controversial demolition and reconstruction of the East Wing and potential corruption, and the growing internal backlash against Pete Hegseth within right-wing and military circles. The panel provides nuanced takes on the real-world consequences of political decision-making, intra-party dynamics, and potential vulnerabilities within the Trump administration.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Government Shutdown: Real-world Costs and Political Calculations

Timestamps: 00:29 – 02:40; 03:19 – 05:09

• Economic Pain for Trump’s Voters: Tim and Jake emphasize that although political incentives to end the shutdown are low, its impact on regular Americans—especially in red states like Montana—is acute.
  • Tim: "It’s Trump’s own voters that are suffering... It’s real, it’s painful, it’s lost jobs, it’s lost benefits, it’s creating financial hardship." (01:55)
• No Clear Incentive to Compromise: Both sides view the shutdown as a potential ‘winner’ for their base, leading to an indefinite standoff with minimal incentives to negotiate.
  • “There are not acute political consequences for either side right now… that explains why this has been unlike some of the ones we’ve seen in the past.” – Tim Miller (04:24)
• Political Memory and Calculations: The panel is skeptical that today’s shutdown will have long-term political consequences unless it continues exceptionally long.
  • “There are going to be a million controversies and scandals between now and then…this shutdown is likely going to be a distant memory unless we’re still shut down by then.” – Tim Miller (04:06)

2. Demolition & Corruption: The East Wing Controversy

Timestamps: 01:09 – 01:25; 05:23 – 07:07

• Two Stories in One:
  • Historic and emotional impact of the East Wing demolition.
  • Political consequences of alleged corruption.
  • Tim highlights that “…the corruption side of this is something that absolutely has to be focused on.” (01:13)
• Moneyed Interests and Trump’s “Swamp” Problem: The ballroom’s funding by crypto and defense companies contradicts Trump’s outsider narrative.
  • “Trump is now essentially doing the bidding of what big tech companies, the big military consultant companies are wanting from him...I do think that undermines his core appeal as an outsider that was fighting for the forgotten man.” – Tim Miller (06:30)
• Presidential Optics: The White House appears dismissive about the public reaction, instead mocking critics and touting Trump’s image as a "builder".
  • "They're focused on making fun of people that think this is a big deal ... this is just Donald Trump trying to modernize the White House." – Tim Miller (05:32)

3. Pete Hegseth Under Fire: Backlash Within the Right-Wing Ecosystem

Timestamps: 00:38; 07:07 – 09:51

• Unusual Internal Criticism: Key right-wing and military figures are turning on Hegseth, with complaints surfacing in The Washington Times—an outlet usually sympathetic to the administration.
  • “It’s kind of like that movie Men in Black…you have to read the far right MAGA news to know what people are really thinking inside the White House in a lot of cases. And the fact that they would speak to an outlet like that…means that these are probably people inside the military who are maybe even sympathetic to Trump but want just more competent leadership.” – Tim Miller (07:45)
• Significance of the Messenger: Criticisms from right-wing sources are harder for the President to dismiss as mainstream media attacks, making Hegseth “actually vulnerable”.
• Trump’s Pattern of Dropping Embattled Allies: Tim warns that while Trump initially defends loyalists, sustained negative coverage—even from the right—can lead him to “move on” for his own political self-preservation.
  • “If they’re taking on too much water he starts to look to move on.” – Tim Miller (09:25)
• Crackdown and Authoritarian Tactics: Hegseth’s restrictions on press and Congressional access at the Pentagon are compared to foreign authoritarian regimes.
  • “It is truly a banana republic situation over at the Pentagon at this point... It is no different than Sputnik or the types of media outlets that would cover the Russian president.” – Tim Miller (09:51)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the shutdown’s impact:
  • “It’s Trump’s own voters that are suffering the consequences of this shutdown. And it’s real, it’s painful, it’s lost jobs, it’s lost benefits, it’s creating financial hardship.”
    — Tim Miller (01:55)
• On corruption and the White House renovation:
  • “Trump is now essentially doing the bidding of what big tech companies, the big military consultant companies are wanting from him. And in exchange, he’s getting his fancy ballroom. And I do think that undermines his core appeal as an outsider…”
    — Tim Miller (06:30)
• On internal right-wing dissent:
  • “...complaints are coming from kind of inside the, not just the military, but inside kind of the right wing ecosystem means that, you know, it’s something that makes him actually vulnerable.”
    — Tim Miller (07:57)
• On authoritarian comparisons at the Pentagon:
  • “It is truly a banana republic situation over at the Pentagon at this point... It is no different than, you know, Sputnik or the types of media outlets that would cover the Russian president.”
    — Tim Miller (09:51)

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Timeline of Key Segments

• 00:29 – 02:40: Preview of topics, initial shutdown discussion (pain for regular people, Montana impact, Trump’s voters suffer).
• 03:19 – 05:09: Is the shutdown a political winner? Why mechanics differ from previous shutdowns; long-term consequences discussed.
• 05:23 – 07:07: The East Wing demolition—the White House’s PR approach, allegations of corruption and influence-buying, implications for Trump’s narrative.
• 07:07 – 09:37: Pete Hegseth faces backlash inside right-wing/military circles, significance of the Washington Times story, Trump’s vulnerability calculus.
• 09:37 – 09:51: Hegseth’s Pentagon crackdown, implications for press and Congressional oversight, concerns over authoritarian tendencies.

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Conclusion

This episode of Bulwark Takes offers a fast-paced but thorough tour through three of the most pressing stories in right-wing politics: the real costs and complex incentives of the current government shutdown, the deepening East Wing corruption controversy, and the rare, consequential infighting targeting Pete Hegseth within the MAGA and military worlds. Through sharp analysis and memorable commentary, Tim Miller and guests break down not only what is happening, but what it tells us about power, accountability, and vulnerability inside the Trump-era GOP.

Transcript

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[Tim Miller]

Hey, everybody. Tim over from the Bulwark, I was on with Ariel Reschef, who's in for Katie Tur over on msnbc, signed for.

[Jake]

A bunch of segments.

[Tim Miller]

So there was a whole cast of.

[Jake]

Characters, former Senator John Tester, Paul Rykoff, independent Americans, a bunch of us. And we covered a lot of issues. So I want you to stick around. The third segment, we really focus on Pete Hegseth getting in some hot water in MAGA circles, generals speaking out against him and speaking out against him to right wing outlets. The Washington Times with a big takeout story that should be a red flag for him. So we talked about that. In addition to his free speech crackdown, we get into the demolition of the East Wing and I kind of get into my take about how the corruption.

[Tim Miller]

Side of this, I think may end.

[Jake]

Up being the most important political story. Obviously the actual demolition has more historic and emotional impact, but I think the corruption side of this is something that absolutely has to be focused on.

[Tim Miller]

Then the first segment, we do a lot of shutdown talk.

[Jake]

Having Tester on was interesting because the frame of this conversation was just about how there's not a lot of political incentive to end the shutdown, but regular people are getting the brunt of it. And in Tester's conversation, he was pointing out that there is in Montana, programs, energy programs, other public works programs that.

[Tim Miller]

Have government support, then obviously benefits that people are getting.

[Jake]

People are losing this in a state that voted overwhelmingly for Trump, that voted overwhelmingly to boot him out the last round in the U.S. senate. And so it's Trump's own voters that are suffering the consequences of this shutdown. And it's real, it's painful, it's lost jobs, it's lost benefits, it's creating financial hardship. And no matter how much Trump wants to try to punish blue cities and get revenge in his political foes, this is an area where he can't do that microscopically. And a lot of people that are in his coalition, his base and that voted for him are paying a price. Obviously there's could get into a huge conversation about this related to the farmers and Sam and Andrew did a video.

[Tim Miller]

On that the other day.

[Jake]

You should go check out and I'm going to be doing some interviews on this next week. So the shutdown politics are getting a little hinky for Trump and I don't think that there's really that's not getting so hot in the kitchen that he's going to have to fold anytime soon. I don't think eventually reality intercedes, I would say so we will see exactly how and when that turns out. Much, much more on the shutdown on the East Wing and on Pete Hegseth getting Brutus by some people inside his own Pentagon and inside his own right wing movement. All coming up next. Stick around, subscribe to the feed right here. Appreciate you all.

[Tim Miller]

We'll see you soon.

[Ashley]

Is the shutdown a winner for President Trump and the Republicans or the longer this drags on? As Senator Tester mentioned, they're the ones with the power here. It looks bad.

[Jake]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

I mean, look, to Jake's point, I think that the Democrats have done a good job of making this shutdown about the extension of these subsidies. And if people are seeing their health care premiums go up, I think Republicans are probably to get blamed for that. To the question, like whether this is a political winner or loser for Trump, this is maybe an unsatisfactory answer for people, but the answer might be basically neither. Outside of the context of the health care issue. We're a year, we're 13 months away for the next midterm. The way Trump does business. There are going to be a million controversies and scandals between now and then. What the economy looks like next year is going to be a big factor in how the midterms turn out. I think that this shutdown is likely going to be a distant memory unless we're still shut down by then, which I guess this is not a zero percent possibility. But and so I think that because there are not acute political consequences for either side right now in the shutdown, I think that explains why this has been unlike some of the ones we've seen in the past, where this is, you know, going on like kind of indefinitely and there's not like a clear path back to the negotiating table. Traditionally, or at least in modern times, this has been a Democratic president that, that wants to keep the government open, you know, negotiating with a Republican Congress that wants to cut spending. So there's at least a terms of debate there to work from. We don't have that here. This president, I don't think cares that much about whether the government's open or not. And as you mentioned, sees this as a winner. The Democrats have a base that wants them to fight and so they see this as kind of a winner for them. And American people are suffering. And until that suffering becomes a political problem for one side or the other, I think this is going to go on.

[Ashley]

You heard Ashley say there the White House seems to be trying to temper some of the coverage of this and keep it a little bit smaller. Do you think they care? The White House cares how this looks to the broader American public?

[Tim Miller]

I don't think they do around the issue of construction and the East Wing. And I think if you watch, I spent some time watching Fox yesterday listening to Trump spokespeople. I think they're focused on kind of making fun of people that think this is a big deal actually, and like saying like, oh, you know, stop your pearl clutching or whatever. You know, this is just Donald Trump trying to modernize the White House. And Donald Trump's a builder. I think they're happy to talk about all that. I think one element that they're probably not that happy to talk about. But I think, you know, to me, the more politically potent story here is the corruption side of this. And you have multiple crypto companies, you know, putting in millions and millions of dollars for this ballroom. Trump just today pardoned a crypto executive that had put money into his, into his stablecoin called Binance. You have the military industrial complex, Lockheed Martin, all these big companies, all the companies that were the swamp that Trump said he was running against. Seems like they've all co opted him. Trump is now essentially doing the bidding of what big tech companies the big military consultant companies are wanting from him. And in exchange, he's getting his fancy ballroom. And I do think that undermines his core appeal as an outsider that was fighting for the forgotten man and that was going to shake up D.C. i think people kind of like it when he's putting his finger in the eye of D.C. and there's a little bit of that with the demolition. But I don't think it's as popular when he is taking essentially influence payments from the types of moneyed interests that he ran against.

[Ashley]

Are there cracks seeming to emerge in this support for Hegseth and how far could that trickle up? Would the White House at some point say enough is enough?

[Tim Miller]

That's a good question. I think this is definitely in a weird way this Coming out of the Washington Times is something that makes Pete Hegseth more vulnerable than if it would have come from a mainstream outlet. We're in this weird upside down place. It's kind of like that movie Men in Black where you know, you have to read the National Enquirer to get the real news about the aliens or kind of there now you have to read the far right MAGA news to know what people are really thinking inside the White House in a lot of cases. And the fact that they would speak to an outlet like that to complain means that these are probably people inside the military who are maybe even sympathetic to Trump but want just more competent leadership and are trying to send a signal to him and a message to him. And we've seen this in the past. Those similar situation with a Trump appointee at that time I think leaked to Politico. But I think the fact that these complaints are coming from kind of inside the, not just the military, but inside kind of the right wing ecosystem means that, you know, it's something that makes him actually vulnerable.

[Ashley]

Yeah. And we know the president pays attention to news, especially right wing outlets. The sort of issues that have been cited in the Washington, Washington Times or Hegseth's fixation on facial hair, press access. Is all of this going to play well with the commander in chief, with the President who does tend to do his own nitpicking and kind of pick up on the culture wars, or is this going to become a distraction at some point?

[Tim Miller]

You know, I think it could be. It could go, it could go both ways. But I think it's a really vulnerable moment for Hegseth right now. You know, on the one hand, there was a firestorm around him initially that I think that he survived because he basically made the case to the President that like, they're coming after me, like they're coming after you and we're going to go after the fake news. And so that's why I think that this is interesting now that these complaints are not really coming from somebody they can turn into a boogeyman. Right. Like this is coming from military leaders, this is coming from a right wing media outlet. And so, you know, at some point all of that bad press starts to pile up and Trump doesn't like it. And we've seen this time and again going back to the first term where, you know, he wants to defend his people for a little while against the media, but after a while, you know, it's all about him. And if they're taking on too much water he starts to look to move on.

[Ashley]

Tim, what do you make of what some perceive as headsets crackdown on at the Pentagon, on both the press and now of their communications with Congress? How are lawmakers going to perceive this?

[Tim Miller]

Well, I think that can look, you can never make any money betting on Republican lawmakers to speak out about what the administration is doing. But you know, conceivably this time it's going to annoy them that they're at least going to complain about behind the scenes to Trump the members of Congress and the members of, you know, both the House and the Senate who are veterans, who are on the Armed Services Committee, who are on these committees, they expect to have access to the military. They've been around for a while. A lot of them, they have had that access. And the idea that Pete Hegseth, a former weekend talk show co host, is going to take it away from them is something that bristles. And so I do think that he's going to get some pushback there and then on the crackdown on the media. It's just worth saying. And it is. And it's truly a banana republic situation over at the Pentagon at this point. If you look down the list of people at the media, it is no different than, you know, Sputnik or the types of media outlets that would cover the Russian president. And I don't say that with hyperbole or an exaggerated metaphor. And it is only foreign outlets, mostly at foreign outlets of countries run by authoritarians like Turkish media outlets, et cetera, and sites that are so far right that, like you said, even Fox and Washington Times look askance at their willingness to go along with it.