Tim Miller Shreds CEOs Who Choose Trump Over Everything

Summary

Bulwark Takes: Tim Miller Shreds CEOs Who Choose Trump Over Everything

Episode Release Date: August 14, 2025
Host: The Bulwark Team
Guests: Tim Miller, Pablo Torre, Dan Ko, Stephanie Ruhle

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1. Introduction to Corporate Allegiance with Trump

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, Tim Miller leads a robust discussion dissecting the perplexing loyalty of corporate CEOs to former President Donald Trump. The conversation, primarily between Miller, Pablo Torre, Dan Ko, and Stephanie Ruhle, delves deep into the motivations and repercussions of CEOs who appear to prioritize Trump’s agenda over the foundational principles of American capitalism and democracy.

2. CEOs’ Subservience to Trump’s Agenda

Pablo Torre initiates the conversation by addressing his frustration over CEOs who seemingly act as if they are subservient to Trump’s ambitions. He questions, “Why are they treating him like a down market banana republic caudillo or a third rate royal?” (02:15) This metaphor underscores his view of Trump as a destabilizing force within corporate America.

3. The Implications of Trump’s Influence on Corporate America

Dan Ko expands on the extent of Trump’s influence, highlighting recent actions such as demanding the resignation of an intelligence CEO and fostering partnerships with major chip manufacturers. He remarks, “Trump seems to want to replace the established rules of American business with his own.” (06:31) This shift, according to Ko, poses a significant threat to the future of capitalism and democracy by intertwining business operations too closely with political agendas.

4. The Trump-Putin Summit and Its Strategic Ramifications

A substantial portion of the discussion focuses on the anticipated one-on-one meeting between President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin. Dan Ko summarizes the strategic underpinnings, stating, “Trump could lose a lot if he walks away with nothing.” (03:04) The panel debates whether Putin stands to gain anything substantial from this summit, with Pablo Torre suggesting that Trump’s pursuit of a Nobel Peace Prize might be a driving factor behind Putin’s concessions.

5. Democratic Strategies Amid Federal Police Takeover

The conversation shifts to the Democrats' defensive maneuvers in response to Trump’s push to federalize the DC Police Force. Dan Ko queries how Democrats can effectively communicate their stance without appearing to minimize crime statistics, asking, “How do Democrats communicate this?” (05:04) Pablo Torre criticizes the notion that Trump’s proposal is genuinely about crime reduction, labeling it as a pretext for militarizing cities.

6. The Erosion of Corporate Credibility and Short-Termism

Stephanie Ruhle and Dan Ko explore the broader implications of CEOs aligning with Trump, emphasizing the erosion of corporate credibility. Ruhle highlights, “They should no longer be considered serious people in the marketplace of ideas.” (09:44) This alliance, driven by short-term gains, risks long-term damage to both the corporations and the democratic fabric they are meant to support.

7. Gerrymandering and the Redrawing of Congressional Maps

The panel addresses Governor Gavin Newsom’s efforts to counter Trump’s attempts to redraw congressional maps in California. Pablo Torre admits a begrudging respect for Newsom’s tactical maneuvers, stating, “Democrats have to fight in Texas.” (13:08) The discussion underscores the complexities and potential fallout of gerrymandering, with Torre asserting that such actions could alienate voters and further distrust in the political system.

8. Trump’s Cultural Maneuvers: Hosting the Kennedy Center Honors

In a surprising turn, Dan Ko brings up Trump’s decision to host the Kennedy Center Honors, marking a foray into the cultural arena. He notes, “Trump says he was very involved in picking this year's honorees, including Kiss, Gloria Gaynor, and Sylvester Stallone.” (16:40) The panel critiques this move as an attempt to reshape public history and culture, drawing unsettling parallels to authoritarian attempts to control historical narratives. Pablo Torre expresses concern, stating, “I don’t like it. But I have more pressing concerns.” (18:15)

9. Concluding Thoughts: The Future of Capitalism and Democracy

As the episode wraps up, the guests reflect on the precarious balance between corporate interests and democratic values. Pablo Torre warns of the potential for increased polarization and the rise of extremist ideologies if current trends continue unchecked. Dan Ko echoes these sentiments, emphasizing the need for CEOs to reclaim their integrity and prioritize long-term societal well-being over short-term political gains.

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Notable Quotes:

• Pablo Torre: “Why are they treating him like a down market banana republic caudillo or a third rate royal?” (02:15)
• Dan Ko: “Trump seems to want to replace the established rules of American business with his own.” (06:31)
• Dan Ko: “Trump could lose a lot if he walks away with nothing.” (03:04)
• Stephanie Ruhle: “They should no longer be considered serious people in the marketplace of ideas.” (09:44)
• Pablo Torre: “I'm feeling Zoron pilled just like listening to this conversation.” (11:02)
• Dan Ko: “Trump says he was very involved in picking this year's honorees, including Kiss, Gloria Gaynor, and Sylvester Stallone.” (16:40)

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Conclusion

In this incisive episode, Bulwark Takes provides a critical examination of the intricate and often troubling relationship between corporate leaders and political power. By highlighting the motivations and consequences of CEOs aligning with Trump’s agenda, Tim Miller and his co-hosts offer listeners a comprehensive understanding of the current state of American corporate and political landscapes. This discussion not only sheds light on immediate political maneuvers but also prompts reflection on the long-term implications for democracy and capitalism in the United States.

Transcript

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[Tim Miller]

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[Pablo Torre]

From the Bulwark here, just back from a late night spot with my girl Stephanie rule on the 11th hour and Pablo Torre and Dan Ko. And boy did we get into a bunch of stuff. In some ways. One of the segments was a little bit of a follow up on my interview with Jason Calacana. So we didn't discuss it per se, but we covered this material which was what are the CEOs doing? Why are they willing to suck up to Trump like this? Why are they treating him like a down market banana republic caudillo or a third rate royal, you know, who needs to have alms given to him in order to avoid tariffs. It feels like they should be upset about that. It feels like they should be speaking out about that, but they're not. And so we discuss why. And I also discussed a little bit of something that I wanted to get into with jcalp. I just, I just didn't get the time. Which was aren't they concerned that the backlash against their behavior is going to yield a democratic response that they like even less than Joe Biden and Kamala Harris? That the backlash might be a little zoron pilled. So we get into that. Steph tries to get me to care about the Kennedy center thing and I just, I just can't do it. We talk a little Ukraine. We talk everything DC lot to discuss. It was a doozy, so I hope you enjoy it. It's, you know, late night, we get a Little loose with the late night hits, so I figured you guys would enjoy it. Stick around for that. Subscribe to the feed. We're gonna have a bunch, a bunch of Trump Putin summit talk here on this page today. And we'll do some other fun stuff, too. We'll see you soon.

[Dan Ko]

We are just two days away from the President's one on one meeting with Russia's President Vladimir Putin that's going to take place in Alaska this morning. Trump joined an emergency call with European allies that included Ukrainian President Zelensky. NBC News is reporting the President said he does not intend to discuss any possible divisions of territory with Putin. According to two European officials and three other people briefed on the call, his goal is to secure a ceasefire in Ukraine. Doesn't Putin have everything to gain and nothing to lose here? But Trump, on the other hand, could lose a lot if he walks away with nothing. And I warn you before you start, both of these gentlemen went to Harvard, so the bar is high, trust me.

[Pablo Torre]

Pablo mentions it to me every time we flood and all of his Peabody Awards. How dare you. Look, here's.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

How dare you.

[Pablo Torre]

Here's what Putin has to lose. Because as Paolo mentioned, Trump wants the Nobel Peace Prize. The only way for Putin to get on the wrong side of Trump is for Trump to feel like Putin is undermining that effort. Right? And so we had this first nine months where Trump said, we're gonna get a resolution on day one. Didn't happen. And then there was a period of, what, six months where it seemed like he was basically doing Putin's bidding. And then eventually the peace never happened. You know, there's been unconscionable amount of damage happening in Kyiv and in Kherson, and there have been unnecessary deaths. And eventually, finally Trump and it sounded like even Melania were like, wtf, where's my Peace Prize? I was giving you everything you wanted. I thought this was gonna be over. That was the impetus for this meeting. So what Putin is trying to do here at this meeting is buy more time, kick the can down the road, offer Trump more fig leaves. And I think the only way for Putin to lose here is for it to come away in some kind of conflict where Trump feels like he's not gonna get this big toy, this big prize that he wants. And as long as Putin kind of plays to his ego, gives him what he wants, makes Zelensky the bad guy, then I think that he's gonna get whatever he wants.

[Dan Ko]

I wanna get your take on this federal takeover, basically, of the DC Police Force. How do Democrats, let's say, communicate this? Cuz it's a very difficult needle to thread. Cuz the average person on the street could say, don't you tell me about crime stats. You know, being down. If there's crime, the President wants to take it on. Everything Daniel, just laid out not only makes perfect sense, I mean it lays out all the flaws. How does that get communicated if you're a Democrat right now?

[Pablo Torre]

I just wouldn't let Donald Trump set the terms of this debate. Making the argument that Donald Trump shouldn't be allowed to bring the military into D.C. because crime is down 28.5% year over year is a stupid reason to make that argument. Pete Hegseth, a weekend Fox News talk show host, should not be running the D.C. police Department. If you have concerns about crime. There are things that the Democrats and Republicans could join together on. Dan just offered some solutions that they did in Boston. There are plenty of things that Democrats could talk about on crime. The issue here is that Donald Trump has created a pretext based on his desire to send in the military in the cities. And they are already telling you, based on DoD plans, that they wanna send the military into other cities. Like they're just looking for an excuse. This has nothing to do with crime. It's a separate conversation. And I think the Democrats should focus on that side of it and get into a tit for tat over whether D.C. s crime rate is high enough or not.

[Dan Ko]

Donald Trump is tightening his grip on corporate America. Remember when they said he was going to deregulate everything and let it rip? Well, in the last few days alone, the President has demanded the resignation of the intel CEO, the firing of Goldman Sachs top economists, and made deals with major chip makers that essentially make his administration a partner in their businesses. And that is not even including his tariff war or his attacks on the BLS and the Federal Reserve. All of this is part of a pattern. Trump seems to want to replace the established rules of American business with his own. Or as my friend Jeffrey Sonnenfeld puts it, quote, maga has gone Marxist and even increasingly Marxist. I know you're shaking your head and you're saying why aren't these CEOs standing up? You just said to me a commercial break. Okay, yeah, I'm not saying they're not pathetic, but did Donald Trump play Tim Cook or did Tim Cook play Donald Trump? Because Tim Cook got exactly what he wanted. And yes, he embarrassed himself. He gave Donald Trump a gold phone, but he's not paying the tariffs and it Works for his customers, works for his employees. It works for his shareholders. What it doesn't work for is the future of capitalism and democracy.

[Pablo Torre]

He is, he is paying the tariffs. Just not as bad of tariffs as he thought he was going to pay. And it's humiliating. And these guys, could you imagine the inverse of this? What Wall street, what your CEO buddies would be saying if Kamala Harris had been elected and she decided that in order to avoid the wealth tax that I want to put in, all you have to do is come in and give me a woke golden calf that was made by an indigenous woman of color or something. As long as you bring me that. Yeah, as long as you bring me.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

That, crafted this basket.

[Pablo Torre]

As long as you give me that, then you don't have to pay the tax. I'm gonna pay somebody else. Everybody. The Wall Street Journal would be up in arms. The guys on Fox would be losing. The world would be on fire if that happened, this happened. And these guys are all too afraid to say anything. It's embarrassing, it's pathetic. And by the way, I don't think it's gonna necessarily bail them out. This is a massive risk that they're playing. And Donald Trump, the market is a guardrail for him, but there's not like a magic button in the Oval Office like the Diet Coke button that's like make the market go back up. If things start to get out of hand, if things start to unravel, if we get into a recession, Donald Trump can't taco his way out of it. And so I think these guys are really playing with fire for no discernible reason to me, except for short term interests. Just the next report, okay?

[Dan Ko]

But that's it. It's the ultimate in short termism. That is why Donald Trump was so angry at Goldman Sachs this week. Because the Goldman Sachs report said the impact of the tariffs have barely even hit yet. You're seeing increased pricing in some products, but so many big front loaded their inventory. But come September, it's the American consumer that's gonna pay. Just today, Donald Trump said, wait until a year from now, all of these factories are going to open. We've not heard from one major company that wasn't already planning any new businesses saying, I'm gonna open up a factory here. So it's the ultimate in short termism. Okay? But for all of those CEOs that couldn't take one more day of having a DEI officer because that was stifling.

[Pablo Torre]

Their business, is that government mandated. The DEI officer, by the way, or did they choose to do that?

[Dan Ko]

O, they all chose to do it. They championed it. They made commercials about it. They had conferences over it. But then it was killing them. That was killing their business. Now those people think it's easier to have a president who could publicly say, I want you to step down, CEO. I want a cut of your profits. That's better.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Yeah. They prefer this guillotine. They prefer the guillotine, apparently.

[Dan Ko]

Well, they did get a tax cut.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Well, speaking of cuts. But the point I guess I'm making here, funny, is that if you're One of these CEOs, what it does cost you to Tim's point is what it should cost them is their credibility. Like, they should no longer be considered serious people in the marketplace of ideas. Because what's happening now, Steph, is very clear. They are taking the short term gains. And in the meantime, they're hoping you forget the fact that they complained about their free speech rights. But meanwhile, I asked anybody on this planet to find me a CEO who has said anything critical about Donald Trump. They are talking with a shoe in their mouth and it's Donald Trump's boot. And they're saying, before we couldn't really exercise our First Amendment rights, now we can. And meanwhile, they're garbling over this boot.

[Pablo Torre]

You know what else they're gonna do is they're gonna drive people into the arms of Zoron. I'm feeling Zoran pilled just like listening to this conversation. It's a true thing. If these guys go all in. Yeah, they go all in with Donald Trump. They make the case that we're gonna have the five richest guys in the world sit behind Donald Trump at the White House at his inauguration, and we're gonna give them all this money in exchange for no regulations and make sure we get a carve out for the tariffs and the rest of the economy goes bust. Like, what do you think? Where do you think regular people are gonna turn? They're not gonna turn to the Wall Street Journal ed board and say, you know who we need to save us from this terrible thing that happened to the rest of us? Paul Ryan. No, they're gonna turn to the far side of the left and these are saying they're great.

[Dan Ko]

So it's gonna be Occupy Wall street.

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But yes, 100% it could work.

[Pablo Torre]

I think that's a risk. That's all I'm saying. I think that they are risking.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

They're daring someone to be populist in a real way.

[Ad]

It is just reminding the public that you can't Trust these capitalist CEOs, guys like Sam Altman, who are Democrats saying all this great things about diversity. Now standing with the President, Mark Zuckerberg, who was doing all of these big initiatives and now is getting rid of fact checkers. People sniff that out and they're so sick and tired of the system. And I totally agree with you. You're gonna see people go right into the arms of Zoram Hamdani and other candidates who are saying the system is rigged and I'm going to be fighting for you. And you should see it with your own eyes.

[Dan Ko]

Governor Gavin Newsom is taking up the Democrats fight against Trump's push to redraw congressional maps. He announced that he is holding a news conference tomorrow morning, likely about a potential new map in California. He made the announcement, guess where? On Twitter. And you might recognize the style of the post. Lately, Newsom's office has been writing these posts just like Trump rates his, including all caps today. Today's post warned Trump to be ready for the most beautiful payback you have ever seen. But as the Washington Post points out, if both parties go all out to redraw maps in the states they control, the numbers will still favor the Republicans. Our nightcap is still here. What do you think about this?

[Pablo Torre]

I'm embarrassed to admit I've kind of been liking Gavin Newsom's online game. I didn't want to like it. I'm not a huge Gavin fan. I voted when I lived in California. I had to vote for him seven times because he kept getting recall. So I had a lot of reluctant votes for Gavin, but he's not. He's never been my favorite. I think it's a little slick and it's a little bit of a try hard. But then Democrats got to do something. They got to do something, and they have no choice but to fight in Texas. I'll let Pablo do the sports analogy. But if they're going to change the rules in the middle of the game and cheat, you can't just be like, oh, well, we kind of, we're going to follow the rules instead and let you guys take these seats. Like, they have to do it. They have no choice but to do it. And I'm happy with that.

[Dan Ko]

Doesn't it just burn everything to the ground? Because it just makes me think, this is when voters say, don't they all do it.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

So I'm not surprised that Tim Miller and his deep Internet addiction is fond of Gavin Newsoms. That is part of the story here.

[Pablo Torre]

That's Fond of his tweets.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

There's an Internet brainedness here that is both real and maybe on some level strategic. But the sports analogy here, Steph, which you I think just implicitly raised is, is it time to just sort of like take your ball and go home? Like, is this a game you actually want to play? I am now trying to think about all these stories through that lens of the would be Zoran Mamdani voter who sort of see in this, and you're a young person in this analogy and you're disaffected by politics as a concept and you're like, okay, so what I understand about gerrymandering, which is a complicated story, but very simple insofar as it is literally subverting the rules of who is in charge because there is self interest on the part of the party that has the power to do it. So if both sides are just gonna do that, I just feel like you are daring people again to just get out of the premise of politics.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't think anybody cares really about. I don't think any of the people you're talking about care about gerrymander or.

[Dan Ko]

Know what it is.

[Pablo Torre]

And I think that's a very simple proposition. Where. And by the way, in California, because of the rules, because the Democrats in California tried to in good faith create a system that wouldn't let politic just change it. They've got to go to the voters so the voters in California can decide. And Gavin, you know, the legislature has to pass it and then Gavin Newsom has to sign it and then they send the maps to the voters and there'll be a valid initiative in November, like they have valid initiatives every month in California, which is something I don't agree with generally, but they have a direct democracy solution to this. And I assume the California voters will vote for it because they don't want Donald Trump stealing six seats just because he told Greg Abbott that he wanted them.

[Dan Ko]

You know what? I'm really tired of consultants getting blamed. But no, but consultants are like these nameless, nameless, faceless consultants. I never voted for a consultant, but I know I have voted for a Democrat. And I cannot figure out why they can't figure out how to, when they win a game, run a damn victory lap.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, I don't know. Obama was pretty good at it.

[Dan Ko]

He was great at it.

[Pablo Torre]

And the last administration had a president who was a terrible communicator. And whether he would. He wasn't a particularly great communicator when he was young and he became a worse and worse communicator as he got older. And so I think that was a big part of the problem. But I also do think that again, not to blame the consultants, but there is a consultant brain deadness of the Democratic Party where the establishment kind of took over and there was just a lot of conventional thinking. And some of that was in response to Trump. How Trump was so anti conventional they felt like they had to save it. But just look at the 16, 20, 24 campaigns. And it was, that's just the reality. So here we are now, hopefully they learn from it.

[Dan Ko]

We're gonna blame careful consultants and say Trump got it right. He lies. He lies. He's a great communicator and tells lies. Today, Donald John Trump continued leading into culture wars when he announced that he himself will host the Kennedy Center Honors later this year. Trump says his staff urged him to become the first president to host the event. And he agreed, citing his experience on, you guessed it, the Apprentice. Trump says he was very involved in picking this year's honorees, including Kiss, Gloria Gaynor and Trump's very good friend Sylvester Stallone. He also said he turned down a couple of wokesters. Our nightcap is still here.

[Pablo Torre]

Pablo Gaynor, not a wokester. Has she gone Maga?

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I wonder the same thing.

[Dan Ko]

She will survive.

[Pablo Torre]

I drive to care about this. If Mark, what was his name, Burnett hadn't given him that TV show, Donald Trump could have lived. If we weren't on this dark timeline, Donald Trump would have lived a happy life as a quasi bankrupt retired real estate guy. Going to see his shows, going to see the musicals. He would have been sitting in the box. I know everybody would have golf clapped for him. You know, he would have probably been tweeting some weird racist stuff too. But for the most part, people wouldn't have seen that because it wouldn't have mattered. But here we are.

[Dan Ko]

Okay, but in all seriousness, we can joke about this and say, oh, this is just the arts, but okay, but then take it to the Smithsonian. Take it to. We are watching this administration change history, right? Change how the public receives history in our most important.

[Pablo Torre]

I have a lot of worries and obviously there are parallels to Stalin here and so there are concerning things, but I don't know. I think that the Smithsonian staff is pretty steeped in history. They're pretty serious people, pretty woke. And God willing, if we ever get out of this nightmare that we're living, I don't think history is going to be erased forever. We have an Internet now. We have books. I don't think Donald Trump is that powerful. The temptation is bad. The fact that he wants to do it is bad. I don't like it. But I have more pressing concern.

[Dan Ko]

All right, gentlemen, thank you all very much.