Loading summary
Transcript23 lines
- [00:00]
Tim Moore
Hey, guys, it's Tim Moore from the Bulwark. I just jumped off with Nicole Wallace and changed shirts while I remembered to talk to the YouTube people. And we were chatting about the kind of underlying economic issues, the consumer sentiment numbers which are in the toilet, and how even though kind of these top numbers, gdp, unemployment, the stock market have stabilized, there's still a lot of unhappiness out there over the tariffs and over the persistently high interest rates. And so we talked about what that means for Trump, what that means for Democrats and how Democrats could leverage that. And we got into some other fun stuff. So check it out. Subscribe to our feed here at the Bulwark and we'll be back sometime this weekend as news develops. We'll see you all soon. Peace.
- [00:48]
Tim Miller
The American economy is about a lot more than just numbers and data and percentages and decimal points. It is about real people living their lives. Moms and dads, Republicans and Democrats, Trump voters and otherwise. Consumers, business owners big and small in every corner of the country right now, today, feeling pain because of Donald Trump. Watch.
- [01:11]
Tim Moore
I hate grocery shopping. Dealing with high prices has left many shoppers dreading going to the store. $6.19 for Jaclyn Gallin. It's something she's noticed over the past few months.
- [01:23]
Tim Miller
I mean, it's expensive, but everything seems.
- [01:26]
Tim Moore
To, so just do what I have to do. We try to, you know, be very careful about the special things that we're picking and really just try to stick to the basics. I spoke to about 10 different shoppers to hear how they feel about the incoming price hikes. Some of them aren't happy and I probably stopped coming here. I mean, there's a lot of different.
- [01:42]
Tim Miller
Places that offer way better prices. I used to pay 100. Now I'm paying 150 just to get groceries. It doesn't make me, doesn't make me feel good. There's been no impact, you know, at least at my level as far as saving any money.
- [01:54]
Tim Moore
Those refillable containers also cut down on packaging expenses that are expected to increase due to tariffs. You know, like, I don't know if I should put in an order for bags that are coming from Taiwan. A one man operation. Owner of Blind Tiger Coffee, Charlie Biondo, says the costs are adding up. It's hard, it's harder to compete with larger roasters that can buy more and get, get better discounts on volume. Biondo says he'd like to focus more on the coffee rather than being steeped in spreadsheets. I like, I like the old way, better.
- [02:24]
Tim Miller
I like to say the entire store really exists in the international trade, right? About 90%. The items are sourced from China. From China, specifically, yes. Yeah. So, you know, just like a pack of hair like this, you know, that would be 6.99. So this could very well be double the price. So a lot of these increases are ultimately.
- [02:44]
Tim Moore
It sounds like going to the consumer.
- [02:46]
Tim Miller
Absolutely.
- [02:47]
Tim Moore
It's like a stress ball.
- [02:48]
Tim Miller
Dwayne Nelson loves shopping for his grandson at Five Little Monkeys in Lafayette, but he's bracing for prices to spike as stores face big tariffs on toys. The tariffs directly affect our grandson and anybody who uses toys. Tim Miller. It is gold. It is the most precious thing you have when you're running a campaign. It is supposed to be the thing that leads your decision making when you're running a White House. And it is the thing that matters most when you're trying to run an economy. And those were people. They were. We just cast a wide net for local coverage of how people feel when they're shopping for. For things and they feel bad.
- [03:29]
Tim Moore
Yeah. Well, it's hard for me to compete with David from when it comes to talking about the macro problems here. He's just so good at that. So I'll talk about, like, the politics and the impact on. On regular people, because this is the element, right? You look at when we were on a couple of weeks ago with you, right? We were so focused on the stock market, what was happening with the crash and what, what the Wall street guys were thinking. And because Trump backed off his essentially trade embargo with China, some of that has stabilized, right? And so you see some MAGA out there trying to go, well, look at that. Look, he made a great deal. See? Nothing, no problems. All you guys were catastrophizing. But, like, the. While Wall street is part of the economy, it's not the whole economy. And we saw this a lot during the Biden administration. Like, let's just be honest, where some of the fundamentals, some of the numbers were looking good. We had the stock market or gdp, but regular people were frustrated and annoyed. And those are the people you have to talk to in politics. And a lot of folks, and this is happening with me down here in New Orleans, I'm sure it is with other people in their lives that you, either as a consumer or as a friend who is a small business owner or you're touching some part of the economy that's touched by this. And when you feel like you unnecessarily have this 30% hike for some product that you buy or for some product that your friend or family member sells at their little store, you get mad about that for good reason, because it's you that are suffering, you that are being put out. You're being annoyed. You're the one that has to scrimp or tighten your belt. Because why? Because the President is in a, you know, toddler fight with Chairman Xi with no goal, you know, with no end game. And so I think that's like the interesting thing, looking at all those clips, right, is it's just, it's touching a bunch of people that aren't necessarily, you know, whatever, politically hyper engaged or whatever. All they're trying to do is live their lives and they're, and there are real ramifications that are just kind of filtering out throughout the whole economy. People are upset about it. And I think that's why you're seeing those consumer confidence numbers that are so low. You know, even if some of the, like the larger GDP numbers are a little stable.
- [05:35]
Tim Miller
Tim Miller, his own conduct on this is so counterproductive. His own utterances. I mean saying, and again, let's just put the 30 doll family in our hearts for a minute. That's what Donald Trump talked about. If you're a 30 doll family, that has to go to two. It's still a story of austerity. I mean, it's demented, it's weird. I don't know anyone who has 30 dolls. My daughter has two. But even in Trump's telling, if you're like one of his people and you track with him, you've learned to track with him in his own telling. It is a story, it is a tale of austerity.
- [06:14]
Tim Moore
It's not a tale of American greatness. And it's right there in the name on the hat. Make America great again. Right? It is counter to what you think. The brand is similar to what you were talking about earlier this week about the cutter plane. It's like we need to get a 13 year old plane from like a regional sand despatch in the Middle East. We can't build our own plane. I'll put it all together. It does go against kind of the opulent America's great brand that he has tried to cultivate. And I think that as they kind of grasped around for rationales for a trade war that doesn't have a rationale really, besides Donald Trump's whims, you land on these talking points that aren't helpful. Just one other thing. On the thing you brought up about the 75% of people buying it that don't want to buy a house. I also think this is the other thing that's hanging over everything is these high interest rates. Right? And I think that's something that really harmed Biden, which is if you're in a situation and you want to be able to move to a different city to take a new job, or you want to move out of an apartment into a home, or you want to. You're having. Your family's expanding, you want to. Or if you want to downsize, if you're in a home and you're, and you're a senior and you want to get to a smaller home, nobody can. You can't do it right now. Like, the interest rates are so high, it doesn't make any economic sense. And so you have this environment where people feel stuck. And then on top of that, Donald Trump comes in and says, hey, you already feel stuck because of these interest rates. I'm going to put a 30% tax on everything that you buy at Walmart, and it's going to have to like it. It's just not a winning political message.
- [07:41]
Tim Miller
It's where you could see a schism emerge between Trump and Republicans who understand history of this country. I mean, malaise is malaise, and it is the third rail of American politics, because malaise was what was used to describe Jimmy Carter's economy, and it was so toxic, it was used for a generation in American politics. Trump is either wittingly or unwittingly making people feel that malaise. Absent some of the fundamental economic weaknesses that ushered in that era, he's creating them as though in a malaise lab, right?
- [08:17]
Tim Moore
No. And if he does create it, we end up with that stagflation. I mean, that is literally the economic environment around Carter, when the malaise economy, you know, or when that coin was termed to define the economy. So it is a big problem for him. You're seeing this, just a hint on the, on the Hill right now in this, in these budget negotiations, right? Where again, that, that I think that if the, if everything was really humming, you know, if the economy was, was really took off and we were in a golden age after Trump got in January 20th. I don't think that you would see the Republicans on the Hill, you know, being so, so much infighting and nitpicking over a budget, over what exactly the taxes are going to be, they would want to continue the momentum, right? That as you go into a time when, oh, man, Trump might be bumbling us into this 1970s stagflation. And on top of that, he wants to force me to vote for some massive tax cut for the rich that's going to jam up, that's going to increase our debt by 6 trillion on top of the trillions that we're already planning on adding to the debt. And that's going to drive inflation, interest rates up more, and that's going to continue to drive this spiral. I don't know if I want my name on that or I can at least, you know, at least want to slow it down a bit and see, you know, kind of how things shake out. So I don't know if you're really seeing, like, a schism or cracks or whatever, but just the fact that they've slowed the gears on that, I think is in part a reflective of what's happening economically.
- [09:46]
Tim Miller
You can't really describe Donald Trump's second term as fitting anything resembling America First. And he's been hearing about it from some of his biggest media, media superfans, the same people who tolerated, celebrated and normalized the January 6th insurrection, his 34 felonies, and his botched handling of COVID It turns out Trump's plan to accept a luxury jet from Qatar was the perfect story for Ben Shapiro, Mark Levin, and Laura Loomer to publicly break from Donald Trump and turn their base against the jet. As for Laura Loomer, her influence has only grown during the presidential campaign. And now, with Trump back in the White House, Frank Bruni of the New York Times examined the outsized role and the challenges that one of Trump's lead chaos agents has played in Trump's second term. Bruni writes, this quote, loomer exemplifies the danger to Trump's own fortunes as well as the country's, of how he often sizes up potential allies. He looks not at the quality of their ideas, but at the audacity of their provocations. Not at how nicely they play with others, but at how reliably they rile their followers. That's a fine approach if you're just owning the libs and staging a carnival. But if you mean to govern, the freak show gets in the way. We're back with Tim and the Rev. Tim, this Bruni column, I read it and wanted to know what you thought of it.
- [11:11]
Tim Moore
Frank's really good. A couple turns of phrase on this point, but that last line is the key one, right. Is that the freak show is helpful actually in a campaign setting. Right. It might not be good for the body politic, but it's helpful to Donald Trump. It creates a lot of noise, you know, it creates a lot of attention. It's good at going after your foes. It's good at making a big deal out of some little thing. And we've seen this with the James Comey Instagram posts this week or yesterday where they're all pretending like he should be in jail over some seashells post where he's talking about how he poses Trump. Right. You know, they're good at that part. Like having that freak show is helpful. It's not that helpful, though, when you actually have to do things. And I think this relates to the last segment. It's not that helpful, actually, when things aren't going that well for you politically and they feel like they need to, they can use their powers of attention for ill. And I do think that we're starting to see that right now. And I think that they are, you know, feeling more and more free to critique Trump because of kind of the absurdity of his recent moves, particularly with regards to the cutter plane. And so we saw that with Laura Loomer and with Mark Levine. It's the great one. I guess you've not been paying attention here.
- [12:28]
Tim Miller
Sorry, what did I say? Levine. Levine.
- [12:32]
Tim Moore
You don't know the great one. Okay. Anyway, so I think that's true of them. And then I think it's also true with the policy. I just wanna say we just saw about an hour ago, whatever it was, the Supreme Court, all three of Trump's Supreme Court judges that he put on the highest court opposed or said that he was wrong with the deportations to El Salvador. Right. And so across the spectrum, when you're going out there and doing all these crazy things, it creates room for those oppositions. And if Trump had just wanted to go into the White House and just have a freak show, he didn't really do a whole lot and he just did gulf America and kind of let everything else go as status quo. So I think he probably would have been in good shape. But once you're trying to govern and do a lot of these extreme things, it creates room for the freak show to create problems for you.
- [13:21]
Tim Miller
Tim, I am out of the business of asking what Democrats should do. They have the whole fate of the democracy in their hands. Right. They're the only ones out publicly as a pro democracy party. The Republicans in Congress who control everything have rolled over. So let me ask it differently. What we have learned is that the American people will tolerate a lot of anti democratic conduct in the spirit of economic opportunity. And instead of judging that or bemoaning that, I think it's maybe a moment to accept that and try to understand that. What opportunity do Democrats have to sort of stand with all Americans, regardless of who they voted for, in this moment of genuine economic insecurity and anxiety?
- [14:08]
Tim Moore
Look, I think the opportunity they have is to channel people's anger. And that doesn't necessarily mean to go and whatever. Sometimes people hear that and it's like, oh, well, that means you have to be screaming and yelling and posting on social media all the time and doing crazy stuff and doing dances at protests and all that. And I think everyone should do what feels authentic to them as a politician. But I think right now, you know, there are people out there that, as we discussed in the last segment, that are upset about what's happening with the economy. There are other people that are upset about other things that the administration is doing. And I think that the opportunity the Democrats have is to try to take back some of that, you know, against the status quo, oppositional energy. Right. And go and say we are. I am going to fight this. Yeah, I'm going to fight this. And I'm upset about it. I'm upset that he. That these rich guys who are insulated from all this are doing this, this to you. I'm upset. Fight on your behalf. And I think that is the opportunity. And so I think that is sometimes where I see, I feel like Democrats miss it a little bit if they are out there talking about, about working together or figuring out solutions. Solutions are important. But I think right now we're kind of in a channeling anger phase and I think that is a good first step and then we can kind of build to what those solutions look like as you get closer and closer to other elections, which are still a little ways away now.