Tim Miller: Trump's Own Voters Feel Betrayed

Summary

Episode Summary: Tim Miller on "Bulwark Takes" – Trump's Own Voters Feel Betrayed

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Host: The Bulwark Team
Episode Guest: Tim Miller
Release Date: July 16, 2025
Episode Title: Tim Miller: Trump's Own Voters Feel Betrayed

---

Introduction

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, Tim Miller delves into the complex relationship between former President Donald Trump and his voter base, particularly in light of recent developments surrounding Jeffrey Epstein and Trump's foreign policy decisions. Miller discusses leaked comments from former President Barack Obama, explores internal dynamics within the Democratic Party, and examines potential fractures within the MAGA movement.

Leaked Comments from Former President Obama (00:15 - 02:23)

Tim Miller and co-host Katie Tur begin by addressing recent leaked remarks from former President Barack Obama. During a fundraiser, Obama urged Democrats to adopt a more proactive stance, moving away from what he described as a "fetal position" in politics. He emphasized the importance of the YIMBY ("Yes In My Backyard") or abundance mindset, encouraging Democrats, especially in blue cities, to actively build and provide services to constituents.

Notable Quote:

Katie Tur: "There are leaked comments from President Obama where he talked about Democrats needing to get out of the fetal position and fight more. He emphasized the YIMBY approach, urging Democrats to focus on building and providing services rather than being bogged down by red tape." (00:29)

The Epstein Scandal and Its Impact on Trump's Supporters (02:32 - 05:39)

Miller transitions to discussing the Jeffrey Epstein scandal, highlighting how Trump's handling of such controversies may have led to disillusionment among his supporters. He argues that Trump has traditionally lied to his base about various conspiracy theories, but the Epstein revelations strike at a deeper level of trust. Voters who believed in Trump's promises of exposing and combating elite corruption and pedophilia feel betrayed as these promises remain unfulfilled.

Notable Quote:

Tim Miller: "In this case, he was lying to his own people and his own voters right now have, over that whole long period dating back to all the way back to those birther interviews, they've been promised a lot... It's not unreasonable for his own voters to be mad, like to feel betrayed about that." (05:39)

Former President Obama's Call for Democratic Action (07:35 - 10:34)

The discussion shifts back to Obama’s remarks, where he criticized Democrats for not being tough enough against Trump. Obama suggested that Democrats need to stop "navel gazing" and start taking concrete actions to counteract Republican policies. Miller agrees, emphasizing that Democrats should utilize their limited power in Congress effectively, such as leveraging high-profile issues like the Epstein case to hold Republicans accountable.

Notable Quote:

Tim Miller: "If you care a lot about, if you're extremely mad... then do what Chris Van Hollen did and go down to El Salvador. People want passion that feels commensurate with their anger or energy." (10:34)

The Ukraine Conundrum and MAGA Voter Disillusionment (08:49 - 11:03)

Miller addresses the growing tension within the MAGA base concerning the U.S. support for Ukraine. Traditionally, MAGA supporters have favored an "America First" policy, opposing foreign entanglements and arms shipments to conflict zones. However, Trump's recent decisions to continue arming Ukraine and engaging in foreign policy actions have caused unease among his base, potentially leading to a rift.

Notable Quote:

Tim Miller: "If Trump is going in there, he's not giving them the Epstein files. He's bombing Iran. He's now going back on the pledge to not provide weapons to Ukraine. I do think that is potentially a real problem for him with a key... supporters." (11:03)

Analysis and Insights

Tim Miller provides a nuanced analysis of how Trump's actions are beginning to alienate his core supporters. The Epstein scandal undermines the trust that was built on anti-elitist rhetoric, while the administration's contradictory foreign policies are causing tension within the MAGA movement. Miller suggests that both Democrats and Republicans are at a crossroads: Democrats must adopt a more proactive and constructive approach, while Republicans need to address the growing disenchantment among their base to maintain political cohesion.

Conclusion

In this insightful episode of Bulwark Takes, Tim Miller explores the delicate balance political leaders must maintain with their supporters. The Epstein scandal and shifting foreign policies highlight the fragility of political alliances and the importance of consistent, trustworthy leadership. As both parties navigate these challenges, the episode underscores the need for strategic action and authentic engagement to sustain and grow their respective bases.

---

Note: This summary is based on a partial transcript of the episode and aims to encapsulate the key discussions and insights presented by Tim Miller.

Transcript

[Tim Miller]

There's a time and a place for a filet o fish, but breakfast is for sausage biscuits. McDonald's breakfast comes first. Hey everybody.

[Katie Tur]

Tim Miller from the Bulwark here just got off with Katie Turr and we talked about a bunch of different topics. We did the Epstein stuff, which we've.

[Tim Miller]

Been covering a lot here.

[Katie Tur]

There are two other topics we got into. I kind of want to extend my comments on a little bit and then let you sort of watch the discussion.

[Tim Miller]

The first was about some leaked comments.

[Katie Tur]

From President Obama, former President Obama at a fundraiser where he was talking about how Democrats need to get out of the field fetal position and fight more. I talked about that a bit on the show. Other comments he made was talking more about you kind of being more supportive of the yimby, the yes in my backyard, or the abundance message to Democrats that Democrats, particularly in blue cities, should be thinking more about how they can build and do more to provide services to people and how to kind of break through some of the red tape, some of the rules, regulations that have prevented Democrats from providing the good governance that people want. The example of this always is the California high speed rail thing where you spend hundreds of millions of dollars, billions of dollars on, on a railroad that can never get built. Right. Like that's nobody's for that, right? Nobody's for that. Nobody's for making it very hard for people to get access to government services.

[Tim Miller]

Right.

[Katie Tur]

And if you're the Democratic Party, the party that believes in government is in Zoran and I talked about this. Actually, the government should be responsive to that. Like you, you as a politician should be responsive to failures in government providing services to people.

[Barack Obama]

So.

[Katie Tur]

So I thought that that was interesting. I have a little bit more on Obama's comments in the conversation with Cornell Belcher and Katie Turr. And then finally the last topic is about Ukraine and potential fissures. We haven't really gotten to those potential fissures on the MAGA side in Ukraine. The same people that I've said about Epstein aren't really loving Trump redoubling his support for Zelensky or not even redoubling Trump finally starting to provide some support for Zelensky is maybe a better way to put it. So I get into that with Katie as well. So stick around for all that.

[Tim Miller]

We'll be back.

[Katie Tur]

More on this feed as stuff breaks. I've got some interesting interviews coming your way that I'm very excited about. So make sure to subscribe to the feed. We'll be seeing you soon.

[Donald Trump]

You are not allowed to be a president if you're not born in this country. He may not have been born in this country. And I'll tell you what, three weeks ago I thought he was born in this country. Right now I have some real doubts. I have people that actually have been studying it and they cannot believe what they're finding.

[Barack Obama]

You have people now down there searching, I mean in Hawaii.

[Donald Trump]

Absolutely. And they cannot believe what they're finding.

[Barack Obama]

Good to be with you. Back with you. I'm Katie Tur. In 2011, shortly after a successful appearance at CPAC, Donald Trump said he was considering running for president. During that time, he spent weeks telling anybody who would listen that then President Barack Obama needed to prove that, that he was born in America, single handedly bringing into the mainstream what was previously a fringe conspiracy theory. Since then we've seen no limit to what sort of conspiracies Donald Trump has been willing to fan. Like January 6th was a government staged riot, or that Haitian immigrants in Ohio were eating people's pets, or that the George Floyd protests constituted a coup attempt that was led by, well funded, by a well funded network of anarchists. But there's now one conspiracy theory that might, just might come back to bite him and its name is Jeffrey Epstein. Tim, what do you think?

[Tim Miller]

Well, first for starters, Katie, I just have to say, you just like to dig up all of my trauma for the past decade. Every time I come on with you, I gotta re listen to Trump BERTHER interviews from 2011. Now come on, Katie, Mike gets you. Here's why I think this one matters. Because in all those other cases, he was lying to people he didn't need or care about. He was lying to you, to the media, to me. You know, he was lying to never Trumpers, he's lying to whatever. In this case, he was lying to his own people and his own voters right now have. Now over that whole long period dating back to all the way back to those birther interviews, they've been promised a lot and they've been promised that a lot of, there are a lot of bad people out there in the world in the deep state and they're pedophile rings and they're stealing elections and they're starting a pandemic and that once he gets back in there and he gets Cash Patel at the FBI and the whole range of characters they've seen on all their podcasts and cable shows for the last decade, they're gonna finally able to bring these people to account. And so six months in for them to say oopsie no, actually that wasn't true. There really weren't any bad people. There really weren't any pedophiles involved at the elite levels of the country. It's not unreason for his own voters to be mad, like to feel betrayed about that. And so I know that might feel kind of silly to people who haven't engaged in this that closely, or it might be easy to say, well, there have been so many times before that he's misled. Well, sure, but in this case, there's at least a cadre of people out there that truly thought that finally the powerful are gonna be held to account. And I don't think he's gonna be able to brush it aside that easily.

[Sponsor Voice]

Bulwark Takes is sponsored by Soul. Are you sick of drinking your calories or are you sick of just waking up hungover? Having some drinks can be fun, but I'm glad that I found an alternative that lets me feel great in the moment and in the next morning. Out of Office Gummies from Seoul Seoul is a wellness brand that believes feeling good should be fun and that it should be easy. Soul specializes in delicious hemp derived THC and CBD products designed to boost your mood and help you unwind. Their best selling out of office gummies were designed to provide a mild relaxing buzz to boost your mood and to enhance creativity and relaxation. I've been taking a low dosage one of these gummies before bed and you know what? My parenting skills have gone through the roof. My kids are doing great, I'm doing great, I'm sleeping great. It's great. The out of Office gummies come in four different strengths so you can find the perfect dose for your vibe. You can choose from from the gentle microdose to the perfect buzz. You can get a noticeable high or you can get the fully lit experience which we call here the Tim Miller special. With wellness at the forefront, you can feel good about what you're putting in your body. All of Sol's products are made from organically farmed USA grown hemp and are vegan, gluten free and low in sugar. And if you like their out of Office gummies, you've got to try their out of Office beverage, a refreshing alcohol free alternative that is perfect for summer sipping. Seriously, in that DC heat, I have to have it. So bring on the good vibes and treat yourself to Seoul today. Right now, Seoul is offering my audience 30% off your entire order. That's right, 30% off.

[Tim Miller]

Not bad.

[Sponsor Voice]

Go to get soul.com and use the code Bulwark takes. That's Get Soul promo code Bulwark takes for 30% off.

[Barack Obama]

Former President Barack Obama has a message for Democrats. Toughen up. He says. Speaking at a private fundraising event this weekend, Obama called out lawmakers, law firms and universities for not being tough enough against Donald Trump. The former president is saying, quote, it's going to require a little bit less navel gazing and a little less whining and being in fetal positions, Tim, because right now Democrats don't have any power in Congress. They don't have the majority. They can only, I mean, they can hold, they could try to hold committee hearings and they're not going to be able to because they're not in charge of the committees. They can hold news conferences and demand answers, but they can only do so much. Do you think that it would be a better idea for them to start going out there and offering a positive approach for what they envision a democratically led future can be in addition to or making secondary the stuff that Donald Trump is doing is illegal and wrong. I mean, how do you balance those two? Because when you're watching Donald Trump's policies on a national level unfold, the Democrats are obviously very angry and they feel like he's crossing a lot of lines that need to be called out.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Well, look, I think doing stuff with the power they have in D.C. which is minimal, they should and they have with the Epstein thing, I think this is smart to jump on this. And they put it up for a vote and the Republicans blocked it. But now they have the Republicans on record on that. I think that is a useful use of an afternoon for the Democrats. Right. There's a lot of time between now and the next midterms. Like my advice to Democrats who always call me, which is I guess somewhat related to what former President Obama was saying about getting out of the fetal position is as there's so much to be outraged about or passionate about in this moment and you should channel whatever it is you're authentically outraged about. I know this might seem kind of naive, but if you care a lot about, if you're extremely mad as I am about the immigrants who've been kidnapped and sent to a foreign prison, then you should do what Chris Van Hollen did and go down to El Salvador. If you're upset about, as Zoran is talking about spending and affordability, then, yeah, go out there and do events. I think what people want and what they're craving right now is passion in this moment that feels commensurate with what they feel like either rage or anger or energy that feels in line with how they feel. And to me, it's very reminiscent, Katie, for an do flashbacks to the 2,012 of how Trump channeled the Republican voters. There was a period of time where Republican voters felt they were force fed John McCain and Mitt Romney, two guys I love but weren't exactly the most passionate, rousing representatives of their values. And they looked at Trump and they said, that guy's gonna fight for us. And that didn't resonate with me in particular, but I understand why it resonated with them. And I think the Democrats don't need their own Trump per se, but they need somebody that all Democrats should think about. How am I gonna represent that?

[Barack Obama]

I'm gonn people, MAGA is not happy about this. You have the Jeffrey Epstein stuff. You have the decision to attack Iran not making MAGA happy, and then the decision now to keep on arming Ukraine. This is a base of support that believes Donald Trump promised them that he would get out of all foreign entanglements. Not just that, but also continuing to send arms to Israel. Tim, how much does that matter?

[Tim Miller]

I think this is an issue where it matters. I guess I'll just say from my perspective, I hope that it's true that he's come around, you know, we'll see over the next coming weeks. But this is necessary. There's been a lot of unnecessary death in Ukraine over the last six months while he has, you know, played footsie with Putin. But as far as MAGA voters are concerned, you know, this was something that surprised me, Katie. I every year at the end of the year, I go to the annual Turning Point USA conference, mostly just to ask the young people that show up there why they're there, what they care about, what are the issues they care about. And the thing that was most striking to me a couple of years ago is how quickly or how much it had changed where they would volunteer. I don't want to be involved in foreign wars. We need to care about America first. We need to stop sending weapons to Ukraine. We need to stop being involved in the Middle East. And so I do think there's a genuine policy plank that particularly a lot of the younger MAGA voters feel and also a lot of folks in the MAGA media, from Bannon to kind of the manosphere. And so if Trump is going in there, he's not giving them the Epstein files. He's bombing Iran. He's now going back on on the pledge to not provide weapons to Ukraine. I do think that is potentially a real problem for him with a key, you know, with his key supporters.