Loading summary

Transcript41 lines

[00:00]
A
Are you a parent looking for an independent, flexible and tuition free school in Oregon? Evergreen Virtual Academy offers a dynamic and tuition free public education with Oregon certified teachers for PK through 12th grade students. Your student gets a laptop, live class sessions and the ability to chart their own unique path. Plus in person events and social activities all year. When school has no walls, learning has no limits. Learn more and enroll now. Evergreen Virtual Academy evergreenvirtual.org hey everyone, it's
[00:31]
B
me, Sam Stein, managing editor at the Bork, and I am pleased to be joined by Rufus Gifford, who is the finance guru extraordinaire of the Democratic Party. He's held so many different titles, raised so much money for Democrats that it's impossible to pinpoint one who benefited the most. Probably Obama. I will say we're having griffiths on to talk about people who are having trouble raising money, the Democratic National Committee and the issues that are taking place there with its chair, Ken Martin. Rufus, thanks for doing this. Really appreciate it.
[01:01]
C
Thanks Sam. Very happy to be with you.
[01:03]
B
The reason I wanted to have you on is you took what I thought was kind of a rather extraordinary step, not something that you normally do, to pen a substack post about the current situation at the dnc. For those that are not caught up, the Democratic National Committee is really lagging in fundraising. It's in debt. There's been calls for the chair, Ken Martin, to step down. There's been a lot of drama there. Rufus, you wrote this substack post where you said the DNC is, quote, spiraling towards irrelevance. You warned that that they were failing or Martin was failing at his two main jobs, which you said were raising money and messaging relentlessly on the media. You said, quote, at this point, I think there is no saving Martin's chairmanship. And then you said, God willing, we will win in November, despite the brand of the national party, our superior candidates or superior campaigns and Trump's disastrous regime will likely propel us. I guess I have to start with why did you feel compelled to do this?
[01:58]
C
Oh, Sam, you know, it isn't it. It's I love that place. And that's, you know, and I, when I wrote that place, I led with that. I've worked DNC so many different times over different chapters of my Life, starting in 2004 and then most recently hand in hand with them in 2024. And it's hard to do it. I will say this, and I'll be very frank with my thought process here. I've been frustrated for a while now a Good year. Plus, it seemed to me that the stories that were coming out of the building were internal squabbles and kind of lack of money and not what I think we all need to be focusing on, which is laser focused on winning election, rebuilding an obviously devastated party. And that got. But I will say something. I held my tongue most of last year and then I think something really happened to me in March, which was something that I thought was unthinkable a year ago was possible. And that was Democrats have really a serious shot of taking the Senate. Still a reach map's still tough, of course, but a combination of candidate recruitment, Trump's weakness, all the rest, the map is starting to look more favorable. And I think it's a real possibility. Tough, but a real possibility. And thus I threw all of my focus into that and continue to. And the problem that I have right now is that the national party, the DNC in my mind, always just needs to be a team player in a midterm elections. I've been at the DNC in a midterm election. In many ways. What the building needs to be doing is working with the DS and the DTRIP to ensure that their committees and their candidates are well funded. It's a narrow path to a Senate and House majority, but that's what we. This is existential, Sam, in every way. I think this is the most important midterm election in a century and we need to be laser focused on it. And then what I saw was the dnc, not just. And I think sometimes it's oversimplified by saying that they're struggling to raise money. The real challenge, Sam, is the reckless spend and the unfocused reckless spend, because as they tout constantly, and probably rightly so, that they're doing an okay job raising money, much more about where they are spending it and the fact that we're entering August in this critical election year in debt, when they need to be cash rich and thus like to me, that falls squarely on leadership. And that's why I took it on. And I don't regret it. You're right, it's not something I would typically do, but I don't regret it.
[04:35]
B
How's the response been?
[04:39]
C
You know, I will say this. I wrote the piece and I wrote it somewhat, going back a little bit. I hosted the DSCC on Saturday night. And one of the things that was clear out of the briefings that we had over the course of the weekend was that they were having to make up for a fundraising gap that was that they had typically in any other cycle they would have expected from the dnc. And that was frustrating to me because it made it. By that you made it.
[05:03]
B
DNC transfers, traditionally transfers money to committees.
[05:07]
C
Yeah. And every other cycle. I think it's certainly in modern history, that's what's happened. And now that they have a. They have a gap in their budget and they'll fill it and we'll figure out how to fill it. That's part of the conversations we were having. But then it frustrated me to no end because it was clear in these existential moments, as I said before, where we have the possibility to have a Democratic Senate to block the horrific Trump nominees that potentially protect the Supreme Court. All of this would be predicated on a Democratic Senate majority. And we are messing around after last weekend with giving money to the state parties of Guam. I just, I couldn't take it anymore, Sam. I really couldn't take it anymore. And because you know what? And so I just couldn't really hold back. I wrote the article. I couldn't sleep all night. I wrote the article first thing in the morning. I honestly didn't know how it would be respond. I didn't show it to anybody how people would respond. I didn't show it to anybody. I actually went on a bike ride because I'm kind of on vacation this week. And when I got back after an hour, my phone had exploded, the likes of which I hadn't seen in a very, very long time. It struck a nerve. And so the answer to your question is how it's been responded. I will say the response I've gotten has been overwhelmingly, overwhelmingly supportive of what I said and in particular the Dems on the inside. So that's, that's, that's. That made gay. And I was nervous, I'll tell you, my husband, I was, I was like, God, did I go too far, my friends? Did I go too far? Did I do something stupid here? And. But I don't think I did. I think that the words needed to be said.
[06:46]
B
Did Ken Martin reach out to you?
[06:48]
C
I. I don't. I don't want to get into the, like the, the. I know you do. I. Look, I. There's been an attempt at outreach. Yeah. I have not connected with Ken. I have not heard from him since.
[07:03]
B
I won't prod the chair of the chair, Guam Democrat. This message is brought to you by Upwork. Hiring help shouldn't be a headache or really a drain on your budget. Upwork makes it easy to hire specialized freelancers. Quickly so you can get the expertise that you need now without weeks of recruiting or having to go with a full time hire. Upwork is a one stop platform to find, hire and pay expert freelancers across web and software development, data analytics, marketing, business operations and more. Upwork helps grow your business by giving you fast access to specialized talent across 125 plus categories so you can fill skill gaps, launch projects faster and scale support up or down without committing to a full time headcount. Trust us, we here at the Blue Work, we're constantly trying to launch new projects. Upwork is a fantastic way to make sure that we're doing it correctly without killing our budget. Thousands of growing businesses already trust Upwork to hire flexible, high quality freelance talent for everything from one off projects to ongoing support. It's free to sign up and posting a job is easy. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That's Upwork.com to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's up w o r k.com upwork.com so you say, you say there's no, there's no, not really a fundraising problem. But I think the data doesn't quite. I mean, I understand the spend, the problem you have is with the spend. But there is clearly a problem on the money raise too. Because if you just compare it to the rnc, it's night and day, as our Lauren Egan reported about this stuff and everyone else too. I think that the disparity is that the DNC has $2 million in debt. RNC now has 128 million cash on hand. I mean, that's not just a spend problem. And I'm curious what your theories are for on this, on, on the money raising side, because you deal with these people, you ask people a lot of times to write checks for political causes.
[09:02]
C
Yeah.
[09:04]
B
What's the issue here? Is, and is part of it the threat of getting on Trump's target list?
[09:11]
C
You know, I think it's less. Look, the answer is I don't think so because, look, I mean, I'm hosting an event for James Talarico on Sunday. This thing is, you know, sold out and people are flooding money at our candidates. So I think it is less that I think most Democrats are fired up, they're angry, they see leaders that they want to support. It's not that the, our candidates are having a shortage of money. I will say that the national brand, and we know this, this has been reported over and over again, is, is in, it's Terrible. It's terrible. And I don't think there has been enough of an effort. And this is in part, you know, the national party needs to do a good bit to, like, rebuild the brand after 2024. And I don't think that's been effective. And this is part of my, like, my messaging argument, I think, especially when you don't have the White House, especially when you don't have a de facto leader of the party there, sort of former president who wants to really put themselves out there politically. Right now, the chair of the Democratic Party is the logical person to actually help try to message. And I just don't see that happening. Obviously, you have people like Leader Jeffries and Leader Schumer, and they have their own lanes, but you don't have somebody who can just go on TV over and over again and hit that message home. And I think that's damaging the dumb brand. So. But I know I'm not answering your question directly.
[10:33]
B
No, but it's an interesting point you bring up, because it is. Obviously, we're talking a lot about the money element, but the messaging element, because you. I think, properly diagnosed, there's two buckets here for the DNC chair. It's raising and spending money, and then it's messaging. It's uncommon how little we see Ken Martin out there in public. And when we do see him in public, it's almost always an effort to defend his own reputation. And I feel like that gets underappreciated a little bit.
[11:02]
C
Yeah, I think that's fair. And I am someone who believes that fundraising is connected to absolutely everything, everything else you do. So you don't raise money in a vacuum. You don't raise money because you have the best fundraisers out there. You have to sell something. And the problem is that it's not been particularly well articulated what an investment in the DNC means. And frankly, most of the stories out there are that we're spending money on frivolous projects like giving money to the
[11:33]
B
state parties of humanity, just in fairness. And you can push. Let's just do the pushback here. He would say, I am sending money to the state parties. I'm building Democratic Party apparatuses in places that have been neglected over the years. If we're going to become relevant in the long term, we can't just seed the south and the Mountain west and all that stuff. We have to have investments, and they have to start at some point, and that point is now. Why is that wrong?
[12:03]
C
No, I think everything you just said is absolutely right. As long as it is not at the expense of the races that you absolutely need to win now. So I am fine with investing in the North Dakota and Washington, D.C. democratic Party nationally at a much, much lower level. Right. But if we do not have money nationally to spend and say the seven critical states to win back the Senate and then of course, the red to blue House races to win back the House, that has got to be first priority. And leadership in these space, in my mind is dictated by making those tough choices. It is not blanketly sending money to every state party. And I also think, look, I think you can do that and I hope that it can be done because we do need to build the bench. We do need to undo a lot of these super majorities in these bright red states. All that is important. But again, Sam, we have the most important election, midterm election coming up and we can't take our eye off the ball. So for me, like, Democrats need to be united in that goal, that specific goal. And we need to be marching in lockstep. All the party committees, the donor base, the activists, the organizers, everybody needs to be in lockstep in order to achieve those goals. It is doable. But like Democrats so often we can't get out of our own way. And I really do think it's true. And I really, really do think that all of us, like those of us who, you know, people talk to the press all day long and you and this piece, I put my face and my name and my reputation behind it. And I just think more people at this time in these critical moments need to speak out because not good enough can't be acceptable. It cannot be acceptable right now in the Trump admin when we are fighting MAGA and what he is doing to our democracy.
[14:04]
B
Okay, speak up. To what end? Like, what would you like to see happen between now and November with respect to specifically the dnc?
[14:12]
C
Well, my biggest concern right now, Sam, is that I think we're going to win in November. And I think that's because of our superior candidates, the organizations that are being built in the states and the work that's being done. Look, and I will tell you this, heading into 2027, when the DNC comes kind of in focus because the DNC is kind of in the presidential election cycle becomes in focus. I will be doing everything I possibly raise money for the dnc, whoever the chair of the DNC is. But I think right now, unless there is a significant shift in priority, and let's also like a little bit of humility and perhaps
[15:02]
A
just
[15:05]
C
some attempt to show that, like, look, things aren't working right now. Let's try to turn this around, asks for help and really all getting on the same page here. I just don't know that the status quo is going to work. I think there are a lot of possibilities. I have no power here, Sam, other than my soapbox. I'm not a DNC member. I'm not like, I can't vote. I don't know. I would like to see, as I said in the piece I've always wanted to see at this moment in time, someone who is kind of a marquee name, who has relationships across the country, who's able to go on TV as often as possible, able to call every donor known to man that person be the face of the party. I would love that. I think actually Ken, who I have nothing against personally, he's a personally nice, perfectly nice guy, but I don't think he has been successful in this piece. And I think they are the most important pieces if you're going to be DNC chair. So that's my challenge. So what happens? I don't know. Right now I just want to be laser focused, which is what I am laser focused on, on raising money for House and Senate candidates and the candidate committees, making sure that money is spent wisely and we can win after November. I think that conversation need to happen because I do not want in any way for this party to be limping into January. I want this party to be like pounding their chest into January.
[16:24]
B
So if I'm just, I want to make sure I'm summarizing correctly and then I'll let you go because yeah, you're on Nin Tuck and you should be doing other things than talking to me on Riverside here. No change at the top of the DNC prior to November.
[16:39]
C
I mean, look, I don't, I, what, what I hope happens.
[16:43]
B
I mean, you did say there's no saving his chairmanship. That's your words so clear. You think someone, he needs to go. I think that's fair.
[16:50]
C
No, I, look, I, I, I don't, I, I think that we have given him a chance to succeed and I haven't seen the change needed over the course of the last year when some of these early stories broke about money and, and spend and, and, and some of the internal management squabbles. I don't, I, I have lost faith. That being said, I don't get to make a decision. I don't get to make these decisions. So whether or not he stays as chair. I don't get to have a voice. What I do hope happens as chair and there's some sort of co chair dynamic. Someone else comes in to help try to do some of the external forward facing work. The person going on tv, the person doing that lion's share of the travel and the money raising, all that that's happened before, there is precedent for it. I'd be okay with that too. I just think that we need to acknowledge that there is a problem here and that we address it as the party broadly.
[17:43]
B
Have you talked to Rahm about this yet? I mean everyone's just sort of like, Rahm's gotta do this. Right. But I don't know if people want Rahm. He's an acqu. Taste.
[17:52]
C
Well, right. I, you know there's, well, we could talk about this all day long. Look, I, I think that Rom would be a fantastic person to, to be in that position. I, I, I will say I, I would like there to be folks who want to take that job, who believe in it for the sake of rebuilding the party. So, and that's like I don't have any selfish interest here. I don't. People ask me all the time, was that your substack some play for put your name to put your name in the mix for new dnc. Joe, I have a good life.
[18:28]
B
Yeah.
[18:30]
C
What I want is by the way, I will, I will, I will sign up to do whatever I can to help the DNC. I'm pretty to help the DNC at 2027. I'm not saying that but it's my goal here is to try to identify the right people and they should be pressured. Not everyone just running for president for the sake of running for president. But I think this role is a vital role to help rebuild this party at critical moment in time in advance of the most important presidential election perhaps in American history. In 2020.
[19:01]
B
Every time. But there might be.
[19:02]
C
I know I do, I know I do. I do say it, Sam. And you've heard me. So many people have heard me say that before. But, but like tell me. And we, with everything on the line, with everything on the line, we just need the A team.
[19:14]
B
And on that, on that note, do you ever look Back to like 2012 when you were like Mitt Romney versus Obama, the most important election. Like wait a second.
[19:22]
C
The fact that my friend first, like literally my first two major. I did 04, but 08 and 12, I, I literally thought, you know, John McCain and Mitt Romney and even in 04 George W. Bush, like they were. They're everyone every. We. I, I can't. I shake my head every day to what the, what the Republican Party has come to, what this country that we've all loved so much has come to. And we just gotta, we, we gotta just do absolutely everything we can to turn it around. And so that's, that's why I say what I say. And I just don't think we can hold our tongues any longer. And frankly, if the, if, if the leadership of the DNC of Ken, if the DNC members decide he is the guy for the future. Even though I have voiced my opinion, I am all in ensuring that we have the best and strongest candidate in 2028. Like I'm, you know, I'm not going to burn the house down on this by any stretch of the imagination. I voice my opinion. It's gotten some people, it's gotten some tongues wagging. I know that and I think that's, that's ultimately a good thing because we can't. Democrats for far too long have a sec. Have accepted not good enough. Have made excuses for people and candidates that are flawed. And I, and we all know what we're talking about. I won't say anything more on that, but I don't think we can do that anymore. And we have to expect the best, the strongest. We need fighters and we need people. You know, we need the best in these jobs. And, and I'm not sure. And I think that's falling short right now. And that's why I speak out.
[20:55]
B
Okay. Well, Rufus, thank you so much. Really appreciate the time. Rufus Gifford, longtime Democratic fundraiser, soon to be the chair of the Democratic Party of Guam.
[21:04]
C
Oh, I don't know where they take me. I have been to Guam once, but I don't even know why we have a Democratic Party of Guam, but I'm sure there's probably why.
[21:12]
B
Okay. Yeah. All right, Rufus, thanks so much, man. Really appreciate it.
[21:15]
C
Thank you.
[21:16]
B
Him.
[21:22]
A
Are you a parent looking for an independent, flexible and tuition free school in Oregon? Evergreen Virtual Academy offers a dynamic and tuition free public education with Oregon certified teachers for PK through 12th grade students. Your student gets a laptop, live class sessions and the ability to chart their own unique path. Plus in person events, events and social activities all year. When school has no walls, learning has no limits. Learn more and enroll now. EvergreenVirtual Academy evergreenvirtual. Org.

Summary5 min read

Podcast Summary: Bulwark Takes

Episode: "Top Democratic Fundraiser: There’s No Saving Ken Martin (w/ Rufus Gifford)"

Host: Sam Stein (The Bulwark)
Guest: Rufus Gifford (Democratic Party fundraiser and strategist)
Date: July 30, 2026

Overview

This episode features a candid conversation between Sam Stein and Rufus Gifford, a top Democratic fundraiser with a long track record, notably for President Obama. The discussion centers on internal challenges at the Democratic National Committee (DNC), particularly the controversial and floundering leadership of DNC Chair Ken Martin. Gifford shares his recent, highly critical substack post about the DNC's direction and fiscal management, arguing that Martin’s leadership is failing at fundraising, financial stewardship, and public messaging. The episode explores the implications for the 2026 midterms, what’s at stake for the party, and what Gifford thinks must change—now and for the crucial presidential cycle ahead.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Rufus Gifford's Unusual Public Critique of the DNC

Timestamps: [01:02]–[04:34]

Gifford explains why he broke his usual discretion with a public critique: longstanding frustration over the DNC’s internal squabbling and, more importantly, its poor fiscal and messaging strategy.
He describes how increasingly favorable Senate election prospects in 2026 propelled him to speak out, emphasizing the existential stakes for the party.
Gifford believes the DNC should be acting as a team player—collaborating with House and Senate committees to maximize electoral chances, not squandering resources or engendering infighting.

Quote:
"The DNC is, quote, spiraling towards irrelevance… at this point, I think there is no saving Martin's chairmanship." — Sam Stein quoting Gifford’s substack [01:28]

Gifford warns that entering August in debt is a leadership failure, especially in a high-stakes midterm year.

2. Reception to Gifford’s Criticism

Timestamps: [04:34]–[06:45]

Reaction to his post was overwhelmingly positive, especially from party insiders and frustrated allies.
Gifford details the sense of relief among Democratic fundraisers and committee staffers that someone finally voiced urgent concerns publicly.

Quote:
"My phone had exploded, the likes of which I hadn't seen in a very, very long time. It struck a nerve." — Rufus Gifford [05:33]

3. DNC Fundraising Failures: More Than Just Spending

Timestamps: [07:59]–[11:01]

Stein points out a stark fundraising disparity: DNC’s $2 million debt versus RNC’s $128 million cash on hand.
Gifford distinguishes between weak fundraising and reckless spending, though admits both are now problems.
He rejects the notion that Democratic donors are afraid to give because of Trump's threat: grassroots and candidate fundraising is robust.
The “national brand” of the Democratic Party is “terrible”; the DNC chair is failing on public messaging, leaving no compelling reason for donors to support the committee over directly supporting individual candidates.

Quote:
"Fundraising is connected to absolutely everything, everything else you do. You don't raise money in a vacuum; you have to sell something, and that's not been particularly well articulated…" — Gifford [11:01]

4. DNC Spending: The State Parties Dilemma

Timestamps: [11:33]–[14:04]

Stein provides a counterpoint: Ken Martin claims investment in neglected state party infrastructure is essential for long-term gains.
Gifford insists that while building local party apparatus matters, it cannot come at the expense of “must-win” races in key states in a year like 2026.
The party must make tough decisions and prioritize resources for contests that determine congressional power.
Gifford says unity and clear priorities are needed, not merely “blanketly sending money to every state party.”

Quote:
"If we do not have money nationally to spend in, say, the seven critical states to win back the Senate…that has got to be the first priority... Leadership...is dictated by making those tough choices." — Gifford [12:08]

5. What Should Happen Next?

Timestamps: [14:04]–[16:24]

Gifford sees the main reasons for Democratic optimism as candidate quality, state operations, and campaign committees—not the DNC.
He is open to significant changes, including new leadership or a co-chair model for the DNC; but he calls mostly for humility, a change in priorities, and a unified focus on immediate election goals.

Quote:
"Unless there is a significant shift in priority and…some attempt to show that, like, look, things aren't working right now… I just don't know that the status quo is going to work." — Gifford [15:04]

6. Will Gifford or Others Step In? Who Should Lead?

Timestamps: [16:24]–[18:30]

Gifford does not expect a change in DNC leadership before November but stands by his judgment that Martin is not up to the job.
Suggests a “marquee name” with broad relationships and media presence as the ideal DNC chair.
The idea of Rahm Emanuel or a similarly high-profile leader is discussed; Gifford supports getting the best talent in these roles, but is not angling for the job himself.

Quote:
"We just need the A team." — Gifford [19:13]

7. The Stakes and the Future

Timestamps: [19:21]–[21:04]

Gifford reflects on the deepening crises within the DNC and the Democratic Party at large, compared to earlier political eras.
He reaffirms his loyalty to the party: even if the DNC leadership doesn’t change, he will work for Democratic victory but will continue to push for higher standards and stronger leadership.

Quote:
"Democrats for far too long have accepted 'not good enough'… I don't think we can do that anymore. We have to expect the best, the strongest. We need fighters and we need people… And I think that's falling short." — Gifford [20:29]

Notable Quotes & Moments

"My phone had exploded… It struck a nerve." — Gifford [05:33]
"Entering August in this critical election year in debt…that falls squarely on leadership." — Gifford [03:55]
"You don't raise money in a vacuum… you have to sell something… and that's not been particularly well articulated." — Gifford [11:01]
"Leadership… is dictated by making those tough choices." — Gifford [12:08]
"We just need the A team." — Gifford [19:13]

Episode Timestamps for Key Segments

Intro & Gifford’s Critique: [01:02]–[04:34]
Insider & Public Reaction: [04:34]–[06:45]
DNC Fundraising Dilemmas: [07:59]–[11:01]
Debate Over Party Investments: [11:33]–[14:04]
What Should Change & Leadership Scenarios: [14:04]–[18:30]
Looking Back, Stakes for the Future: [19:21]–[21:04]

Summary

Rufus Gifford delivers a frank, impassioned critique of the DNC under Ken Martin, focusing on the failures of both fundraising and message leadership, exacerbated by reckless and unfocused spending. He argues that Democratic success in 2026 will likely come despite, not because of, the DNC, powered by strong state operations and candidate committees. Gifford calls for urgent change—if not at the top, then in discipline, humility, and approach—and pleads for higher expectations and more effective, visible leadership. The conversation powerfully captures both Democratic potential and peril on the eve of crucial midterms.

Loading summary

Transcript41 lines

[00:00]
A
Are you a parent looking for an independent, flexible and tuition free school in Oregon? Evergreen Virtual Academy offers a dynamic and tuition free public education with Oregon certified teachers for PK through 12th grade students. Your student gets a laptop, live class sessions and the ability to chart their own unique path. Plus in person events and social activities all year. When school has no walls, learning has no limits. Learn more and enroll now. Evergreen Virtual Academy evergreenvirtual.org hey everyone, it's
[00:31]
B
me, Sam Stein, managing editor at the Bork, and I am pleased to be joined by Rufus Gifford, who is the finance guru extraordinaire of the Democratic Party. He's held so many different titles, raised so much money for Democrats that it's impossible to pinpoint one who benefited the most. Probably Obama. I will say we're having griffiths on to talk about people who are having trouble raising money, the Democratic National Committee and the issues that are taking place there with its chair, Ken Martin. Rufus, thanks for doing this. Really appreciate it.
[01:01]
C
Thanks Sam. Very happy to be with you.
[01:03]
B
The reason I wanted to have you on is you took what I thought was kind of a rather extraordinary step, not something that you normally do, to pen a substack post about the current situation at the dnc. For those that are not caught up, the Democratic National Committee is really lagging in fundraising. It's in debt. There's been calls for the chair, Ken Martin, to step down. There's been a lot of drama there. Rufus, you wrote this substack post where you said the DNC is, quote, spiraling towards irrelevance. You warned that that they were failing or Martin was failing at his two main jobs, which you said were raising money and messaging relentlessly on the media. You said, quote, at this point, I think there is no saving Martin's chairmanship. And then you said, God willing, we will win in November, despite the brand of the national party, our superior candidates or superior campaigns and Trump's disastrous regime will likely propel us. I guess I have to start with why did you feel compelled to do this?
[01:58]
C
Oh, Sam, you know, it isn't it. It's I love that place. And that's, you know, and I, when I wrote that place, I led with that. I've worked DNC so many different times over different chapters of my Life, starting in 2004 and then most recently hand in hand with them in 2024. And it's hard to do it. I will say this, and I'll be very frank with my thought process here. I've been frustrated for a while now a Good year. Plus, it seemed to me that the stories that were coming out of the building were internal squabbles and kind of lack of money and not what I think we all need to be focusing on, which is laser focused on winning election, rebuilding an obviously devastated party. And that got. But I will say something. I held my tongue most of last year and then I think something really happened to me in March, which was something that I thought was unthinkable a year ago was possible. And that was Democrats have really a serious shot of taking the Senate. Still a reach map's still tough, of course, but a combination of candidate recruitment, Trump's weakness, all the rest, the map is starting to look more favorable. And I think it's a real possibility. Tough, but a real possibility. And thus I threw all of my focus into that and continue to. And the problem that I have right now is that the national party, the DNC in my mind, always just needs to be a team player in a midterm elections. I've been at the DNC in a midterm election. In many ways. What the building needs to be doing is working with the DS and the DTRIP to ensure that their committees and their candidates are well funded. It's a narrow path to a Senate and House majority, but that's what we. This is existential, Sam, in every way. I think this is the most important midterm election in a century and we need to be laser focused on it. And then what I saw was the dnc, not just. And I think sometimes it's oversimplified by saying that they're struggling to raise money. The real challenge, Sam, is the reckless spend and the unfocused reckless spend, because as they tout constantly, and probably rightly so, that they're doing an okay job raising money, much more about where they are spending it and the fact that we're entering August in this critical election year in debt, when they need to be cash rich and thus like to me, that falls squarely on leadership. And that's why I took it on. And I don't regret it. You're right, it's not something I would typically do, but I don't regret it.
[04:35]
B
How's the response been?
[04:39]
C
You know, I will say this. I wrote the piece and I wrote it somewhat, going back a little bit. I hosted the DSCC on Saturday night. And one of the things that was clear out of the briefings that we had over the course of the weekend was that they were having to make up for a fundraising gap that was that they had typically in any other cycle they would have expected from the dnc. And that was frustrating to me because it made it. By that you made it.
[05:03]
B
DNC transfers, traditionally transfers money to committees.
[05:07]
C
Yeah. And every other cycle. I think it's certainly in modern history, that's what's happened. And now that they have a. They have a gap in their budget and they'll fill it and we'll figure out how to fill it. That's part of the conversations we were having. But then it frustrated me to no end because it was clear in these existential moments, as I said before, where we have the possibility to have a Democratic Senate to block the horrific Trump nominees that potentially protect the Supreme Court. All of this would be predicated on a Democratic Senate majority. And we are messing around after last weekend with giving money to the state parties of Guam. I just, I couldn't take it anymore, Sam. I really couldn't take it anymore. And because you know what? And so I just couldn't really hold back. I wrote the article. I couldn't sleep all night. I wrote the article first thing in the morning. I honestly didn't know how it would be respond. I didn't show it to anybody how people would respond. I didn't show it to anybody. I actually went on a bike ride because I'm kind of on vacation this week. And when I got back after an hour, my phone had exploded, the likes of which I hadn't seen in a very, very long time. It struck a nerve. And so the answer to your question is how it's been responded. I will say the response I've gotten has been overwhelmingly, overwhelmingly supportive of what I said and in particular the Dems on the inside. So that's, that's, that's. That made gay. And I was nervous, I'll tell you, my husband, I was, I was like, God, did I go too far, my friends? Did I go too far? Did I do something stupid here? And. But I don't think I did. I think that the words needed to be said.
[06:46]
B
Did Ken Martin reach out to you?
[06:48]
C
I. I don't. I don't want to get into the, like the, the. I know you do. I. Look, I. There's been an attempt at outreach. Yeah. I have not connected with Ken. I have not heard from him since.
[07:03]
B
I won't prod the chair of the chair, Guam Democrat. This message is brought to you by Upwork. Hiring help shouldn't be a headache or really a drain on your budget. Upwork makes it easy to hire specialized freelancers. Quickly so you can get the expertise that you need now without weeks of recruiting or having to go with a full time hire. Upwork is a one stop platform to find, hire and pay expert freelancers across web and software development, data analytics, marketing, business operations and more. Upwork helps grow your business by giving you fast access to specialized talent across 125 plus categories so you can fill skill gaps, launch projects faster and scale support up or down without committing to a full time headcount. Trust us, we here at the Blue Work, we're constantly trying to launch new projects. Upwork is a fantastic way to make sure that we're doing it correctly without killing our budget. Thousands of growing businesses already trust Upwork to hire flexible, high quality freelance talent for everything from one off projects to ongoing support. It's free to sign up and posting a job is easy. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That's Upwork.com to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's up w o r k.com upwork.com so you say, you say there's no, there's no, not really a fundraising problem. But I think the data doesn't quite. I mean, I understand the spend, the problem you have is with the spend. But there is clearly a problem on the money raise too. Because if you just compare it to the rnc, it's night and day, as our Lauren Egan reported about this stuff and everyone else too. I think that the disparity is that the DNC has $2 million in debt. RNC now has 128 million cash on hand. I mean, that's not just a spend problem. And I'm curious what your theories are for on this, on, on the money raising side, because you deal with these people, you ask people a lot of times to write checks for political causes.
[09:02]
C
Yeah.
[09:04]
B
What's the issue here? Is, and is part of it the threat of getting on Trump's target list?
[09:11]
C
You know, I think it's less. Look, the answer is I don't think so because, look, I mean, I'm hosting an event for James Talarico on Sunday. This thing is, you know, sold out and people are flooding money at our candidates. So I think it is less that I think most Democrats are fired up, they're angry, they see leaders that they want to support. It's not that the, our candidates are having a shortage of money. I will say that the national brand, and we know this, this has been reported over and over again, is, is in, it's Terrible. It's terrible. And I don't think there has been enough of an effort. And this is in part, you know, the national party needs to do a good bit to, like, rebuild the brand after 2024. And I don't think that's been effective. And this is part of my, like, my messaging argument, I think, especially when you don't have the White House, especially when you don't have a de facto leader of the party there, sort of former president who wants to really put themselves out there politically. Right now, the chair of the Democratic Party is the logical person to actually help try to message. And I just don't see that happening. Obviously, you have people like Leader Jeffries and Leader Schumer, and they have their own lanes, but you don't have somebody who can just go on TV over and over again and hit that message home. And I think that's damaging the dumb brand. So. But I know I'm not answering your question directly.
[10:33]
B
No, but it's an interesting point you bring up, because it is. Obviously, we're talking a lot about the money element, but the messaging element, because you. I think, properly diagnosed, there's two buckets here for the DNC chair. It's raising and spending money, and then it's messaging. It's uncommon how little we see Ken Martin out there in public. And when we do see him in public, it's almost always an effort to defend his own reputation. And I feel like that gets underappreciated a little bit.
[11:02]
C
Yeah, I think that's fair. And I am someone who believes that fundraising is connected to absolutely everything, everything else you do. So you don't raise money in a vacuum. You don't raise money because you have the best fundraisers out there. You have to sell something. And the problem is that it's not been particularly well articulated what an investment in the DNC means. And frankly, most of the stories out there are that we're spending money on frivolous projects like giving money to the
[11:33]
B
state parties of humanity, just in fairness. And you can push. Let's just do the pushback here. He would say, I am sending money to the state parties. I'm building Democratic Party apparatuses in places that have been neglected over the years. If we're going to become relevant in the long term, we can't just seed the south and the Mountain west and all that stuff. We have to have investments, and they have to start at some point, and that point is now. Why is that wrong?
[12:03]
C
No, I think everything you just said is absolutely right. As long as it is not at the expense of the races that you absolutely need to win now. So I am fine with investing in the North Dakota and Washington, D.C. democratic Party nationally at a much, much lower level. Right. But if we do not have money nationally to spend and say the seven critical states to win back the Senate and then of course, the red to blue House races to win back the House, that has got to be first priority. And leadership in these space, in my mind is dictated by making those tough choices. It is not blanketly sending money to every state party. And I also think, look, I think you can do that and I hope that it can be done because we do need to build the bench. We do need to undo a lot of these super majorities in these bright red states. All that is important. But again, Sam, we have the most important election, midterm election coming up and we can't take our eye off the ball. So for me, like, Democrats need to be united in that goal, that specific goal. And we need to be marching in lockstep. All the party committees, the donor base, the activists, the organizers, everybody needs to be in lockstep in order to achieve those goals. It is doable. But like Democrats so often we can't get out of our own way. And I really do think it's true. And I really, really do think that all of us, like those of us who, you know, people talk to the press all day long and you and this piece, I put my face and my name and my reputation behind it. And I just think more people at this time in these critical moments need to speak out because not good enough can't be acceptable. It cannot be acceptable right now in the Trump admin when we are fighting MAGA and what he is doing to our democracy.
[14:04]
B
Okay, speak up. To what end? Like, what would you like to see happen between now and November with respect to specifically the dnc?
[14:12]
C
Well, my biggest concern right now, Sam, is that I think we're going to win in November. And I think that's because of our superior candidates, the organizations that are being built in the states and the work that's being done. Look, and I will tell you this, heading into 2027, when the DNC comes kind of in focus because the DNC is kind of in the presidential election cycle becomes in focus. I will be doing everything I possibly raise money for the dnc, whoever the chair of the DNC is. But I think right now, unless there is a significant shift in priority, and let's also like a little bit of humility and perhaps
[15:02]
A
just
[15:05]
C
some attempt to show that, like, look, things aren't working right now. Let's try to turn this around, asks for help and really all getting on the same page here. I just don't know that the status quo is going to work. I think there are a lot of possibilities. I have no power here, Sam, other than my soapbox. I'm not a DNC member. I'm not like, I can't vote. I don't know. I would like to see, as I said in the piece I've always wanted to see at this moment in time, someone who is kind of a marquee name, who has relationships across the country, who's able to go on TV as often as possible, able to call every donor known to man that person be the face of the party. I would love that. I think actually Ken, who I have nothing against personally, he's a personally nice, perfectly nice guy, but I don't think he has been successful in this piece. And I think they are the most important pieces if you're going to be DNC chair. So that's my challenge. So what happens? I don't know. Right now I just want to be laser focused, which is what I am laser focused on, on raising money for House and Senate candidates and the candidate committees, making sure that money is spent wisely and we can win after November. I think that conversation need to happen because I do not want in any way for this party to be limping into January. I want this party to be like pounding their chest into January.
[16:24]
B
So if I'm just, I want to make sure I'm summarizing correctly and then I'll let you go because yeah, you're on Nin Tuck and you should be doing other things than talking to me on Riverside here. No change at the top of the DNC prior to November.
[16:39]
C
I mean, look, I don't, I, what, what I hope happens.
[16:43]
B
I mean, you did say there's no saving his chairmanship. That's your words so clear. You think someone, he needs to go. I think that's fair.
[16:50]
C
No, I, look, I, I, I don't, I, I think that we have given him a chance to succeed and I haven't seen the change needed over the course of the last year when some of these early stories broke about money and, and spend and, and, and some of the internal management squabbles. I don't, I, I have lost faith. That being said, I don't get to make a decision. I don't get to make these decisions. So whether or not he stays as chair. I don't get to have a voice. What I do hope happens as chair and there's some sort of co chair dynamic. Someone else comes in to help try to do some of the external forward facing work. The person going on tv, the person doing that lion's share of the travel and the money raising, all that that's happened before, there is precedent for it. I'd be okay with that too. I just think that we need to acknowledge that there is a problem here and that we address it as the party broadly.
[17:43]
B
Have you talked to Rahm about this yet? I mean everyone's just sort of like, Rahm's gotta do this. Right. But I don't know if people want Rahm. He's an acqu. Taste.
[17:52]
C
Well, right. I, you know there's, well, we could talk about this all day long. Look, I, I think that Rom would be a fantastic person to, to be in that position. I, I, I will say I, I would like there to be folks who want to take that job, who believe in it for the sake of rebuilding the party. So, and that's like I don't have any selfish interest here. I don't. People ask me all the time, was that your substack some play for put your name to put your name in the mix for new dnc. Joe, I have a good life.
[18:28]
B
Yeah.
[18:30]
C
What I want is by the way, I will, I will, I will sign up to do whatever I can to help the DNC. I'm pretty to help the DNC at 2027. I'm not saying that but it's my goal here is to try to identify the right people and they should be pressured. Not everyone just running for president for the sake of running for president. But I think this role is a vital role to help rebuild this party at critical moment in time in advance of the most important presidential election perhaps in American history. In 2020.
[19:01]
B
Every time. But there might be.
[19:02]
C
I know I do, I know I do. I do say it, Sam. And you've heard me. So many people have heard me say that before. But, but like tell me. And we, with everything on the line, with everything on the line, we just need the A team.
[19:14]
B
And on that, on that note, do you ever look Back to like 2012 when you were like Mitt Romney versus Obama, the most important election. Like wait a second.
[19:22]
C
The fact that my friend first, like literally my first two major. I did 04, but 08 and 12, I, I literally thought, you know, John McCain and Mitt Romney and even in 04 George W. Bush, like they were. They're everyone every. We. I, I can't. I shake my head every day to what the, what the Republican Party has come to, what this country that we've all loved so much has come to. And we just gotta, we, we gotta just do absolutely everything we can to turn it around. And so that's, that's why I say what I say. And I just don't think we can hold our tongues any longer. And frankly, if the, if, if the leadership of the DNC of Ken, if the DNC members decide he is the guy for the future. Even though I have voiced my opinion, I am all in ensuring that we have the best and strongest candidate in 2028. Like I'm, you know, I'm not going to burn the house down on this by any stretch of the imagination. I voice my opinion. It's gotten some people, it's gotten some tongues wagging. I know that and I think that's, that's ultimately a good thing because we can't. Democrats for far too long have a sec. Have accepted not good enough. Have made excuses for people and candidates that are flawed. And I, and we all know what we're talking about. I won't say anything more on that, but I don't think we can do that anymore. And we have to expect the best, the strongest. We need fighters and we need people. You know, we need the best in these jobs. And, and I'm not sure. And I think that's falling short right now. And that's why I speak out.
[20:55]
B
Okay. Well, Rufus, thank you so much. Really appreciate the time. Rufus Gifford, longtime Democratic fundraiser, soon to be the chair of the Democratic Party of Guam.
[21:04]
C
Oh, I don't know where they take me. I have been to Guam once, but I don't even know why we have a Democratic Party of Guam, but I'm sure there's probably why.
[21:12]
B
Okay. Yeah. All right, Rufus, thanks so much, man. Really appreciate it.
[21:15]
C
Thank you.
[21:16]
B
Him.
[21:22]
A
Are you a parent looking for an independent, flexible and tuition free school in Oregon? Evergreen Virtual Academy offers a dynamic and tuition free public education with Oregon certified teachers for PK through 12th grade students. Your student gets a laptop, live class sessions and the ability to chart their own unique path. Plus in person events, events and social activities all year. When school has no walls, learning has no limits. Learn more and enroll now. EvergreenVirtual Academy evergreenvirtual. Org.