Bulwark Takes: Detailed Summary of "Trouble for Trump Admin? Group Sues Over Illegal Signal Messages"

Release Date: March 28, 2025
Host: The Bulwark (Tim Miller)
Guest: Chioma Chukwu, Interim Executive Director of American Oversight

Introduction

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, host Tim Miller engages in a compelling discussion with Chioma Chukwu, the interim executive director of American Oversight, regarding a significant lawsuit filed against the Trump administration. The conversation delves into issues surrounding the illegal use of Signal messaging by government officials, records retention violations, and broader implications for governmental transparency and accountability.

Overview of the Lawsuit

Tim Miller initiates the conversation by introducing the topic:

"[00:24] Tim Miller: ...American Oversight filed a lawsuit earlier this week targeting the government over the use of Signal in the Houthi PC small group Signal chat heard around the world."

Chioma Chukwu elaborates on the organization's mission and the specifics of the lawsuit:

"[01:05] Chioma Chukwu: ...American Oversight is a watchdog organization that monitors governments to ensure that they are complying with federal records law and other open record laws at the state level. And so here, when we learned that there were national security officials who were communicating in an insecure application about highly sensitive information, likely cloud classified, that were set to auto delete..."

The lawsuit targets the administration's use of Signal, an encrypted messaging app, which was set to auto-delete messages after a specified period. American Oversight argues that this practice violates the Federal Records Act, which mandates the preservation of government records.

Records Retention and Legal Obligations

Tim Miller brings attention to the legal requirements for record-keeping:

"[01:50] Tim Miller: ...they're required by law to retain all of this."

Chioma Chukwu confirms the breach of the Federal Records Act:

"[02:17] Chioma Chukwu: ...The Federal Records act requires that agencies, agency heads, their staff, they create, maintain and preserve records in accordance with the Federal Records Act. It is evident that that did not happen here."

She emphasizes the straightforward nature of the law and the administration's failure to comply, leading to the lawsuit.

Critique of the Attorney General's Response

The conversation shifts to the Attorney General's recent press conference, where she addressed the lawsuit:

"[03:03] Chioma Chukwu: If you want to talk about classified information, talk about what was at Hillary Clinton's home that she was trying to bleach bit."

Chioma criticizes the Attorney General for deflecting the issue by referencing the Hillary Clinton email scandal, suggesting it as a justification for not investigating the current misuse of Signal. She points out the inconsistency and perceived bias in the Attorney General's stance.

"[03:29] Chioma Chukwu: ...this is just the deflection, the distraction, the downplaying, because they know they were caught red handed..."

She insists that the same standards applied in past investigations, like Hillary Clinton's, should apply to the current administration.

Judicial Proceedings and Next Steps

Tim Miller inquires about the current status of the lawsuit and recent judicial rulings:

"[04:09] Tim Miller: ...we've had a ruling already from, from Judge Bozberg. Talk to us about that."

Chioma Chukwu explains the recent Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) granted by Judge Boasberg:

"[04:35] Chioma Chukwu: ...the TRO ... was to prevent the agencies from further destruction and to ensure that they would preserve any record that has not already been deleted."

She outlines the expected next steps, including the agencies' obligation to preserve records and report their compliance to the court.

Scope of the Issue and Administrative Patterns

The discussion broadens to the administration's overall approach to transparency and record-keeping:

"[05:52] Chioma Chukwu: ...we know that this administration has made clear that their modus operandi is to ensure that they are not communicating in a transparent, open way..."

Chioma points out that the misuse of Signal is symptomatic of a larger pattern within the administration to evade oversight and maintain secrecy. She references pre-inauguration communications and training with contributors to Project 2025, highlighting intentional strategies to use messaging applications like Signal to avoid record discovery.

Importance of Records for Accountability

Tim Miller underscores the critical role of records in governmental accountability:

"[06:54] Tim Miller: ...the FOIA act allows people in the future to go and, like, see how government decisions were made..."

Chioma Chukwu expands on this by explaining the broader implications of record deletion:

"[07:21] Chioma Chukwu: ...when information is not preserved, and the people want to understand how their government's working, they want to know how decisions were being made... If those records are not preserved, they'll never have the answers..."

She emphasizes that transparent record-keeping is essential for citizens to hold their government accountable for decisions affecting various aspects of public life, including government benefits, employment, and taxation.

Ongoing Efforts by American Oversight

The conversation concludes with an overview of American Oversight's broader initiatives:

"[08:59] Chioma Chukwu: ...we have some lawsuits against DOGE because again, DOGE has just been so incredibly non transparent..."

Chioma details multiple lawsuits targeting the administration's lack of transparency, including challenges against the Department of Defense (DOGE) and the firing of inspectors general. She asserts that these actions are part of a systematic effort to dismantle mechanisms that ensure governmental accountability and transparency.

Conclusion

Tim Miller wraps up the discussion by expressing gratitude to Chioma Chukwu and highlighting the importance of American Oversight's work in maintaining governmental transparency and accountability.

"[10:05] Tim Miller: ...Thank you for coming on. That's American Oversight. Go check out their organization we appreciate the work you're doing."

Key Takeaways

• Violation of Federal Records Act: The Trump administration's use of Signal for official communications, set to auto-delete messages, breaches federal law requiring the preservation of government records.

• Lack of Transparency: The administration exhibits a broader pattern of evading oversight and maintaining secrecy, as evidenced by the misuse of messaging apps and restructuring agencies to limit record accessibility.

• Legal Actions and Judicial Support: American Oversight successfully obtained a TRO to prevent further destruction of records, emphasizing the judiciary's role in enforcing transparency.

• Importance of Preserved Records: Proper record-keeping is vital for governmental accountability, enabling future investigations and ensuring that citizens can access information on government decisions and actions.

• Continued Advocacy: American Oversight is actively pursuing multiple lawsuits to challenge and rectify the administration's attempts to undermine transparency, including actions against DOGE and the dismissal of inspectors general.

This episode of Bulwark Takes sheds light on critical issues surrounding governmental transparency, the legal obligations of record-keeping, and the ongoing efforts to hold the administration accountable through legal channels. Chioma Chukwu's insights provide a thorough understanding of the challenges and the importance of vigilant oversight in preserving democratic principles.