Will Summer (2:54)

There's something going on here that is. I think you hit on something that is preventing Trump from doing his, like, usual magic, and he's, he's not hitting the. Hitting it on the head in terms of how he's supposed to move the base. I mean, he had this power where he could make them suddenly care about, like, oh, well, of course we have to tariff Malaysia to 50 or what have you, or, you know. Well, of course, I know we said there weren't. We weren't going to do wars, but now we're going to bomb Iran, stuff like that. And he's been very capable of doing that for a decade now. But there's something going on here, and maybe it's because there's some embarrassing thing in the files related to him or someone he knows. I mean, I have no evidence of that, but just based on the fact that he is, like, flipping out over this. And you can tell up until, basically, Trump keeps setting back. The White House attempts to massage this this week. There's clearly been an attempt to return to the pre Bondi memo or the pre DOJ memo moment where it was like, there are these files. Maybe they'll come out, maybe they won't. We're reviewing them. There's no deadline. Who knows? And that was a pretty comfortable place to be in, as long as Pambani wasn't waving binders around. The issue is that now they said, it's over, get over it. And of course, Trump came out at the Cabinet meeting and said get over it. And now they're trying to get back to that old zone. And so you have Lara Trump saying, well, maybe we'll put some stuff out. And Trump saying, well, maybe Pam Bondi will put some stuff out. But then Trump comes out and keeps saying, and he said yesterday and now he said on Truth Social today, you know, there aren't going to be any, you know, it's fake, you know, who cares? And if the documents were created by James Comey, I mean, this nonsense he's saying, then really why would they put out any of the documents?

Andrew Egger (4:33)

Yeah, that has been the wildest thing to watch of all this, to me is just all the different strategies. I mean, like plainly everybody's got their own theory, even in the White House and certainly in among Republican Washington of like the best way to get the base off their backs about this. You've got guys like, guys like Mike Johnson in the House who are saying, no, it's just like anything they have release it. I think that's reasonable. I think that's, you know, transparent or whatever. Then you have folks like, you know, like, like you say the Lara, the Lara Trump types who are like trying to get back to a nice stable holding pattern on all of this. But then Cash Patel the other day basically saying like, it's basically a conspiracy theory to think that, that there's anything more out there. And then, and then Trump basically just, just saying, I don't understand why, why you guys won't. The funny thing about, about the Trump stuff to me is that he is trying to like deflect to an even a different conspiracy. Right? I mean, he's, he's trying to say like, like, no, you guys don't understand. The story is bigger than, you know, it's not this elite pedophilia ring thing. It's the accusations of this elite pedophilia ring thing that the Democrats are making. Right. Which is just, it's, it's so fascinating on so many levels because it's you, it's so easy to go down a rabbit hole of why he would be saying that. You know, you can, you can speculate quite a lot about why Donald Trump might, might want to pre prejudice people against whatever might come out. But again, you know, like, there's, we don't, we don't have evidence of what we don't know about. So like, we don't want to do too much wild rampant speculating. But I don't know, it just seems as though Trump has channeled this particular kind of conspiratorial energy for so long. And not just this energy, but this particular line. Right? I mean, like people who want to know what happened to Jeffrey Epstein, and especially people who think they already know what happened to Jeffrey Epstein, that he was, you know, killed to cover up the satanic pedophilia ring that every Democrat they don't like in the world. And also maybe major media figures and maybe like entertainment figures and all this stuff that, that they think that the truth is out there and Donald Trump could give them that. And it just doesn't seem like they're about to be like, oh, well, you know, Trump said that maybe the Democrats were monkeying with the file. So I guess we'll never know.

Will Summer (6:43)

Well, you know, look at it. I mean, the, this he's saying here and the unique thing today again, is that he's insulting the base. He's, he's saying, you are weaklings. I don't want you around if you believed the Epstein's files were real or there was anything legitimate to them. Now who's on that list? Cash Patel, Dan Bonjito, J.D. vance, all people who believed, or, you know, Pam Bondi as well, who, who put some legitimacy on the files. And I think there's an interesting thing going on here where it's sort of like everyone in the administration but Trump is on one track, which is basically the files are legit, but maybe we'll put them out, maybe we won't. Maybe it's, you know, we have to protect the women involved. And so they're kind of looking for excuses here, but they're not questioning the legitimacy of the files. Trump is saying the files are fake and they were made up by Obama. And so it seems as though there may be some different motivations going on. And the other thing I would say is like, from the perspective of the non Trump people in the administration and they are sort of like proposing at the same time, like that the next six months will be devoted to Epstein to satisfy the base. Like they're saying Benny Johnson had this list of like 10 things. It's like we got to declassify all these reports, get Ghislaine in front of Congress, whatever. And then, you know, Mike Johnson was saying, you know, we, we got to see all this stuff. And then he immediately goes and votes against releasing the FC files. So that I guess they're just kind of running all over the place.

Andrew Egger (8:07)

Yeah, yeah. Again, I'm trying not to just like indulge in rampant speculation here. The one thing I will say is like this is the playbook that Trump runs when he feels like there's information that is damaging to him in some way all the time. Right? It's totally invented. It's a hoax, it's fake news. And it almost seems a little bit like this dynamic feels a little bit like I. Let me know if you think this comparison holds up. I'm still kind of running it over in my head, like, about this time last year with Joe Biden, right, where there was all this speculation about, like, his age and his fitness, and people like us were. Were basically saying, like, yeah, a lot of that stuff's overblown, but why doesn't he just get out there more and, like, you know, prove. Prove him wrong? Like, he's. He's being too cagey. He's being too. Too careful. He ought to just let it. Let it rip. And then it turned out, no, he wasn't doing that because he couldn't do that. Right? I mean, like, he was. And you could. You could make an argument. I mean, if. If there is something damaging to Trump personally in these files or to, you know, friends of his or whatever, like, it's the same kind of thing. Republicans are just like, you know, like, let's just get it all out there. Let's get. Get this monkey off our back. And Trump is like, the one guy who's kind of like, about that, you know, I don't. I don't know.

Will Summer (9:15)

You know, yeah, maybe we should, you know, hey, Lara Trump, maybe stop playing, promising them any of the files. I mean, yeah, I think the Biden comparison is great because, you know, back then, it was looking at these things. They're saying, oh, they keep making these inept media moves, you know, but. But it's not because he's senile. They're just so protective or what have you. And then, I mean, there was kind of the thing that was staring everyone in the face, which was Biden's, you know, declining health and, you know, mental acuity. Whereas with this, it's like there's something. There's kind of like a big elephant in the room, and we can't quite see it, but it is throwing off Trump's instincts, like, wildly. And, you know, again, this is something he's had. You know, he's had a weird thing with Epstein going back decades. I mean, you know, there was obviously, people were researching this video where he's saying, you know, I wish Ghislaine. Well, like, after she was, you know, already in the federal criminal process. Jonathan Swan said, why do you wish her well, like the woman in the sex trafficking scheme. It's very weird.

Andrew Egger (10:07)

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I don't know if all of you out in TV land saw Tim had a great video just like last night, basically breaking down from reporting from the Miami Herald, like all the stuff we do and don't know about, what may or may not still be out there about Epstein. What about the reaction? I mean, this tweet just went up this morning. You have your finger on the pulse of this stuff? Is it too early to tell how the base is sort of responding to this pretty intense provocation?

Will Summer (10:31)

It's quite negative. I mean, we're recording this maybe an hour after this post went up. But the already, you know, even this week we traveled this line from like, it seems like Trump was like enforcing a little message discipline. On Monday we saw Charlie Kirk come out like he had been brain stapled and said like, what is Epstein? You know, I'm moving on. And then you got a little bit of that Dinesh d', Souza, but already people were starting to crack. Charlie Kirk talked about it again on Tuesday. So much for that. And there was like some breaking. You know, Tim Pool last night called it like the biggest political opening Democrats have had in a decade. Which I probably not true, but the. There's kind of people freaking out. And then with this post, I mean, I just saw Savannah Hernandez, who's a TPUSA person, was saying, you know, when you're talking about people who care about the Epstein list on the, in the, on the, in the Trump movement, you're talking about like a lot of the biggest die hard Trump supporters. Like she's saying you're talking about like people who are at January 6th, you're talking, I mean these are like, this encompasses like a lot of hardcore Trump fans. And now to be like, it's crazy. Can you imagine if like Biden had just been like, you know, you bunch of Democratic weaklings, you know, or, you know, or called any. The president calling any Americans. That is just crazy.

Andrew Egger (11:41)

I think that would have spiked Biden's approval numbers. I feel like a lot of his best, best moments over the last few years were just like random flashes of anger at his own. Remember the. Listen, listen up, fat thing on the campaign trail. Maybe just that one. But it did pop immediately into my head. Yeah, I don't know. It's. It really is something. There's something to be said too. I mean, I always like watching in the kind of crazy world of right wing media, the guys who are like the true, true believers versus the guys who are just kind of the pros. Like maybe Charlie Kirk was, is a good example of these guys who know that the insane stuff is what their audience wants and that's always what they're going to give them. But they're like at a moment like this, they're not quite sure how to handle it. Right. Like they, they, it flat foots them in a little, a little bit in a way that it doesn't flat foot, you know, the Lara Logans of the world who are like just have oatmeal for brains and are, well, I mean.

Will Summer (12:32)

She'S saying, reacting, she's saying, well actually probably this is just because of, you know, Pam Bondi's going for an even bigger fish, you know, in conspiracy world.

Andrew Egger (12:43)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, don't, don't underestimate like, like the, the, the ability of the human mind and particularly the human mind that's been kind of like addled by a warm bath of conspiracies online for years and years. Like you start with any few facts and it will come up with like the conspiracy that fits those few facts. Like the Epstein files aren't coming out, but Trump's still our president and is this good guy and we love and trust him. Like there is a conspiracy that a human brain could hatch that would reconcile all this stuff. So maybe it doesn't hurt him at all. We will see. But yeah, but I cannot imagine that there is no blowback from this gigantic fuck you to his own biggest fans. I mean, I just, it's so unusual. It's really hard to like, I mean, like, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, maybe, maybe we'll just leave it at that. Do you have any other thoughts? Thoughts, Will, about, about the President's teeing off gut punch against his own biggest supporters.

Will Summer (13:34)

I mean we're less than two weeks into this now. Like it's persisting and if he's already, he's like insulting his biggest fans, like, where is it headed? I don't know. I mean, I feel like it could keep going.

Andrew Egger (13:45)

Yeah, well, despite ourselves, we will continue to cover it. I'm sure there's other stuff happening in the world, but this is just such a bizarre and strange story. We'll be on it. Certainly will. Will be on it. That's his bread and butter and thank him for that. So thanks Will. This was fun. Very strange, but fun. Thanks to all of you people out there in TV land. Hope you will like the video. Subscribe to the channel. Head over to the Bulwark.com to subscribe to our more more buttoned up respectable written, thoughtful content. Not that this is not any of those things, but Will's False Flag newsletter over there. My Morning Shots newsletter. All the good stuff. Thanks to you all for watching and we'll see you next time.

Ryan (14:24)

It is Ryan here and I have a question for you. What do you do when you win? Like are you a fist pumper?

Andrew Egger (14:30)

A woohooer?

Ryan (14:31)

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