Bulwark Takes – "Trump Can’t Hold the Coalition Together Anymore"

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Date: November 16, 2025
Hosts: Jack Cotterella & Sam Stein
Topic: Fractures inside MAGA, Trump’s declining grip, and the political chaos over Epstein files and intra-GOP infighting.

Overview

This episode zeroes in on the growing chaos and fragmentation within the MAGA coalition as Donald Trump lashes out at fellow Republicans— notably Rep. Thomas Massie and Marjorie Taylor Greene—over the upcoming vote to release Epstein-related files. The hosts discuss how Trump’s personal attacks, shifting endorsements, and unpredictable behavior are causing unusual levels of public backlash, even among the MAGA faithful, raising questions about his continued ability to hold the movement together.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Trump’s Attack on Thomas Massie (00:15 – 04:01)

• Jack Cotterella introduces the episode’s focus: Trump’s recent meltdown on Air Force One, attacking Rep. Thomas Massie and his deceased wife in a Truth Social post.

  • Quote: “It starts, of course, with the meltdown that Trump had on Air Force One on Friday, attacking Thomas Massie and his deceased wife, seemingly..." (00:32)

• Sam Stein describes Trump's remarks as "a horrible thing to do and say…the man was married for 30 years. His wife tragically passed. He is remarried. You are allowed to remarry. Of all people, Donald Trump would know that.” (01:27)

• Both hosts note that even hardline MAGA supporters found Trump’s comments "viscerally grotesque."

  • Quote (Stein): "I think a lot of people found this viscerally grotesque and rightfully so. I mean, you don't go after a dude who tragically lost his wife.” (01:51)

• They discuss the duality often invoked to explain Trump’s behavior: a 'charming' private persona versus a brutal public one.

  • Quote (Cotterella): “Have you ever seen a spy movie where the villain, you don’t discover he’s the villain towards the end?...You can be two different ways.” (02:54)
  • Quote (Stein): “MAGAs, apparently they’re just discovering this now. Right? Like, it’s been like 10 years of this stuff.” (03:20)

The Epstein File Vote as a Flashpoint (03:42 – 07:18)

• Massie stands firm: Trump’s anger at Massie is over the Epstein files—Massie’s refusal to bend on releasing them.

  • Massie’s warning: “Donald Trump can protect you in red districts right now… but in 2030, he’s not going to be the president, and you will have voted to protect pedophiles... This vote... will last longer than Donald Trump.” (04:01)

• The hosts analyze how this argument—about the long-term political stain—resonates with other Republicans.

  • "Once it gets big, then it can balloon to something massive." (05:45)

• There’s speculation about how many House Republicans could break ranks—possibly “60 or 80”—creating a potential turning point where Trump’s threats are no longer effective: “At what point can Trump not go after all of them?” (05:40)

MAGA Base Pushback and the Online Reaction (06:04 – 08:33)

• Congressman Troy Nels illustrates the discomfort: He toe’s Trump’s line on the Epstein file vote but gets harshly "ratioed" online, even by MAGA supporters.
  • Quote: “There are so many comments, huge ratio. It is exactly the opposite of what you traditionally would expect. He’s getting killed online, and not just from Democrats. He’s getting killed from MAGAfied, MAGA files.” (06:20)
• Jack and Sam observe that under Elon Musk's Twitter, the right is now arguably more “chronically online,” tightly tuned to what influencers are saying.
  • “They’re so tuned in.” (08:33)
• J.D. Vance is noted as an example—engaged in deep online name-searching without addressing the scandal—signaling the pressure on MAGA politicians is real.

Is This Really the Breaking Point? (08:33 – 13:11)

• The hosts joke about “walls closing in” memes, but say that this moment “feels different." Never-before-seen conservative influencers are publicly breaking with Trump over the Epstein files and Trump’s attacks on Massie and MTG.
  • Quote (Cotterella): “These are people I never even heard of, but they have massive accounts. And… they were saying, like…Trump launched nukes at Mass and MTG this morning while golfing with Lindsey Graham. Trump is telling you exactly who he is. Please listen. Okay.” (09:15)
• Citing notable online breakaways—from Michael Flynn Jr. to Kevin Sorbo—the hosts underscore a “precarious moment.” Even previously loyal corners of MAGA are airing criticisms.

Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Shift and “Forgiveness” Debate (13:30 – 17:20)

• They discuss Marjorie Taylor Greene’s unexpectedly conciliatory rhetoric on CNN after Trump pulled his endorsement:
  • Quote (MTG): "And I would like to say humbly, I'm sorry for taking part in the toxic politics. It's very bad for our country… I am committed... to put down the knives in politics. I really just want to see people be kind to one another." (13:43)
• The hosts analyze her apology skeptically:
  • Jack: “I’m not going to accept your apology. I’m sorry… This is the same Marjorie Taylor Greene who is, like, stalking and harassing David Hogg…" (14:38)
• Sam is slightly more open to the notion of political “conversion,” but only with time and real change:
  • Quote: "Part of coalition politics is seeming to at least embrace the idea of aligning yourself with unorthodox voices… We’re gonna take our time to trust that this conversion is real." (16:36)

State of the MAGA Coalition and What Comes Next (Summation, 13:11 – End)

• With Trump’s age, controversies, and erratic leadership, they suggest:
  • “We are at this seemingly precarious moment for the movement in which the guy who’s held it all together is a lame duck... championing weird policies that are controversial and not going over well with the base, is, you know, going crazy at any point who crosses him, and then making alliances with people that the base doesn’t trust, like Lindsey Graham. So it’s like this odd moment right now.” (13:11)
• The episode closes with speculation about future intra-MAGA divides, specifically: Will Trump’s base sustain attacks on MTG and others, or does boredom and chaos eventually take over?

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Trump’s attack on Massie’s wife:
  “Yeah, what a dick. Honestly, honestly.” – Sam Stein (01:27)
• On MAGA backlash:
  “I think a lot of people found this viscerally grotesque and rightfully so.” – Stein (01:51)
• On Massie's challenge:
  “This vote... will last longer than Donald Trump.” – Thomas Massie, played on-air (04:11)
• On unusual MAGA criticism:
  “This dude is…ostensibly conservative, I think. I don’t know. Michael Flynn Jr... is out there going nuts.” – Sam Stein (09:13)
• On Marjorie Taylor Greene’s apology:
  “I'm sorry for taking part in the toxic politics. It's very bad for our country… I am committed… to put down the knives in politics.” – MTG on CNN (13:43) “I’m not going to accept your apology. I’m sorry.” – Cotterella (14:38)
• On coalition politics:
  “Part of coalition politics is seeming to at least embrace the idea of aligning yourself with unorthodox voices.” – Stein (16:36)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Trump's attack on Massie: 00:15–02:21
• MAGAs react and Massie’s pushback: 02:21–04:23
• House GOP numbers and weakening Trump influence: 05:21–05:53
• Troy Nels and MAGA infighting online: 06:04–07:18
• MAGA’s ‘chronically online’ shift, J.D. Vance: 07:18–08:33
• Conservative influencers breaking with Trump: 08:55–10:29
• MTG’s CNN apology and the forgiveness debate: 13:30–17:20
• Closing analysis and speculation: 17:20–End

Final Thoughts

Through their analysis and anecdotes, the hosts paint a picture of genuine turbulence inside the MAGA movement. Trump’s ability to dictate terms and maintain unity is under its most severe strain yet, with online discourse, upcoming votes, and public apologies marking what might be a new phase in Republican politics. The episode captures a moment when even Trump’s most loyal corners question both his tactics and longevity as the coalition’s leader.