Bulwark Takes: Trump Demands Special Counsel, Still Not Over 2020 Election

Released: June 20, 2025
Host: Sam Stein
Guest: Andrew Egger, Author of "Morning Shots"

Introduction

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, Sam Stein engages in a deep conversation with Andrew Egger about former President Donald Trump's recent call for the appointment of a special counsel to investigate the 2020 presidential election. The discussion centers around Trump's persistent claims of election fraud and the implications of his latest demands for a special counsel.

Trump’s Call for a Special Counsel

Sam Stein opens the discussion by highlighting Donald Trump's latest move:

Sam Stein [02:00]: "Donald Trump... takes to his favorite platform, True Social, and writes this. Zero border crossings for the month for Trump. All caps, of course, versus 60,000 for sleepy crooked Joe Biden... The evidence is massive and overwhelming of election fraud. He says a special prosecutor must be appointed. This cannot be allowed to happen again in the United States of America."

Andrew Egger responds by noting that while this is the first time Trump has specifically called for a special counsel regarding the 2020 election, he has consistently re-litigated the election results during his presidency:

Andrew Egger [02:09]: "Definitely the first time he's called for this specific policy move. Not, obviously the first time he has re-litigated the 2020 election while in office."

Historical Context and Previous Claims

The hosts delve into the history of Trump's allegations of election fraud, examining statements from key figures associated with him:

• Donald Trump [02:20]: "2020 presidential election was by far the most corrupt election in the history of our country... It was a rigged election... We were getting ready to win this election... We did win this election."

• Andrew Egger [03:15]: Reflects on Trump's previous attacks on special counsels, mentioning how Trump was fiercely opposed to the appointment of Robert Mueller during the Russia investigation.

Sam Stein adds insights into the administrative dynamics:

Sam Stein [03:27]: "...In the aftermath of the 2020 election, in the run-up to his leaving office, he really felt like Bill Barr, his Attorney General at that time, shafted him by not, you know, looking into this stuff sufficiently."

Analyzing the Feasibility of a Special Counsel

The conversation shifts to the practicalities and potential motivations behind Trump’s demand:

Andrew Egger [04:01]: Discusses the role of a special counsel as an independent figure outside the Justice Department, contrasting it with Trump’s usual approach to legal matters.

Sam Stein [04:35]: Questions the necessity of a special counsel given the extensive investigations already conducted, citing numerous dismissals of fraud claims.

Sam Stein emphasizes the redundancy of Trump's demand:

Sam Stein [06:42]: "Everyone who's looked into this, even people who are close to Trump, are like, no fraud occurred, buddy. Get over it."

Evidence Refuting Election Fraud Claims

Andrew Egger and Sam Stein present a series of testimonials from Trump allies who acknowledge the legitimacy of the 2020 election:

• Rudy Giuliani: "I do not think the machine stole the election."

• Acting Deputy Attorney General Richard Donahue [02:41]: "I told the president myself that several times in several conversations that these allegations... were not true."

• Bill Barr [02:41]: Addressed allegations about vote dumping in Detroit, providing evidence against fraud claims.

• Jason Miller: Recounts that Trump’s campaign data lead conceded the likely election loss explicitly to Trump.

• Alex Cannon: "I was not personally finding anything sufficient to alter the results of the election."

• Kellyanne Conway: Admits that the Trump team failed to find supporting evidence for fraud claims.

Sam Stein [07:45]: "Everyone who's looked into this... are like, no fraud occurred, buddy. Get over it."

Trump’s Surrounding Team and Reality Distortion

Andrew Egger discusses Trump’s influence over his inner circle, highlighting how surrounding himself with loyalists reinforces his unfounded claims:

Andrew Egger [07:45]: "He has succeeded in, in kind of putting this reality distortion force field around himself and surrounding him with people who help him keep that up."

They touch upon figures like J.D. Vance, who was selected for his unwavering support of Trump’s narrative.

Potential Appointment of a Special Counsel

The hosts speculate on the likelihood and implications of appointing a special counsel:

Sam Stein [09:19]: Suggests that Trump might be strategizing to appoint someone like Mike Lindell, although Andrew Egger doubts this choice.

Andrew Egger [10:07]: Predicts that if a special counsel is appointed, it would more likely be someone like Harmeet Dhillon, who balances perceived sanity with a willingness to support Trump's agenda.

They conclude that a genuine, independent special counsel is unlikely to be appointed:

Andrew Egger [10:16]: "No, I don't think there will be a real one. But Trump will continue to beat the horn, I think so that you think..."

Sam Stein [10:44]: "I don't think they pick it up. I think this was a stray bullet from Trump... Maybe they do have to do it. But I would be surprised at this point if they do it."

Conclusion

Sam Stein and Andrew Egger wrap up the discussion by expressing skepticism about the actual establishment of a special counsel to investigate the 2020 election. They argue that such a move would contradict Trump's usual strategies and likely be ineffective, serving more as a propaganda tool than a genuine legal inquiry.

Sam Stein [11:37]: "We'll see."

The episode provides a comprehensive analysis of Trump's latest demands, situating them within the broader context of his ongoing efforts to delegitimize the 2020 election results. Through their informed discussion, Stein and Egger offer listeners a nuanced understanding of the political maneuvers at play and the improbability of significant legal consequences stemming from Trump's current stance.

Key Takeaways:

• Trump's Continued Allegations: Despite widespread debunking, Trump remains steadfast in claiming the 2020 election was stolen, now calling for a special counsel.

• Lack of Evidence: Multiple high-profile Trump allies and legal officials have found no substantial evidence of election fraud that would alter the election results.

• Political Strategy: The push for a special counsel may be more about maintaining a political narrative than seeking genuine legal accountability.

• Unlikely Outcome: Given the lack of credible evidence and the historical context of Trump's approach to legal matters, the appointment of a special counsel is considered improbable by the hosts.

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