Bulwark Takes: Trump DOJ Arrests a Judge. It Might Backfire Big Time

Episode Released: April 27, 2025

Hosts:

• Bill Kristol: Co-founder of The Bulwark, political commentator.
• Ryan Goodman: Professor of Law at NYU, Editor-in-Chief of Just Security.

Introduction

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, Bill Kristol engages in a profound discussion with Ryan Goodman, a respected legal scholar, about the recent and highly controversial arrest of a sitting judge by the Trump-era Department of Justice (DOJ). The conversation delves into the legal intricacies, potential overreaches by the administration, and the broader implications for the U.S. judicial system.

1. The Arrest of a Sitting Judge: An Unprecedented Move

[00:00] Bill Kristol: "Our guest today is Ryan Goodman... we've been talking about what's going on with Trump and the courts."

[00:45] Ryan Goodman: "In a fairly unprecedented manner, the Department of Justice has arrested a sitting judge... the allegation is that she's committed two federal crimes by facilitating a non-citizen immigrant..."

The DOJ's move to arrest a sitting judge is described as highly unusual, marking perhaps the first instance of such an action. The judge is accused of obstructing ICE enforcement and concealing a person under an arrest warrant, actions Goodman deems both legally and procedurally questionable.

2. Analyzing the Weakness of the DOJ's Case

[03:09] Bill Kristol: "I've talked to three or four federal prosecutors about this and they think the case is weak..."

[03:25] Ryan Goodman: "If you simply read the affidavit on its own terms, it doesn't look like a solid case at all."

Goodman argues that the DOJ's case lacks substantial evidence, particularly in proving the judge's intent to conceal the immigrant. The affidavit reveals inconsistencies, such as the immigrant's movements during the arrest, suggesting that the judge did not actively impede ICE's efforts.

3. Administration's Public Messaging: Undermining Judicial Independence

[07:11] Ryan Goodman: "They're trying to create an image in the public mind... that judges are part of the deep state protecting violent immigrants..."

Goodman asserts that high-profile figures like Pam Bondi and Cash Patel are leveraging media platforms to smear judges, aiming to paint them as obstructive to the administration’s immigration policies. This strategy serves both to delegitimize judicial oversight and to rally public support against perceived judicial overreach.

4. Broader Immigration Prosecutions: Challenges and Oversteps

[10:45] Ryan Goodman: "They've rolled out birthright citizenship on January 20... adding to it... trying to strip people of that."

The Trump administration's aggressive immigration agenda faces significant hurdles, both logistically and legally. Efforts to deport immigrants are stymied by the courts, leading the administration to adopt more extreme measures, such as invoking the Alien Enemies Act to classify gang members as foreign adversaries.

5. High-Profile Cases Highlighting DOJ Overreach

[16:12] Bill Kristol: "The public opinion is shifting against the administration's immigration stance."

Goodman discusses cases like Abrego Garcia and the recent deportation of a U.S. citizen child to Honduras. These instances showcase the administration's willingness to bypass due process, leading to widespread legal challenges and diminishing public support.

[26:06] Bill Kristol: "How much is all that building up distrust of the administration's credibility in courts?"

Goodman emphasizes that the DOJ’s repeated overreaches erode trust in the administration, both within the judiciary and among the public, as evidenced by high-profile deportation cases lacking proper legal justification.

6. Supreme Court's Critical Role and Signals of Resistance

[43:57] Bill Kristol: "The Supreme Court is sending one set of signals... we're heading to something."

[45:06] Ryan Goodman: "I think the Supreme Court is deeply worried... try to be a check on the executive branch overreach."

Goodman highlights the Supreme Court's recent emergency rulings and their stance against the administration's misuse of the Alien Enemies Act. The Court, with a significant majority, appears poised to counteract DOJ's aggressive immigration policies, signaling a judicial pushback against executive overreach.

7. Public Perception and the Future of DOJ's Actions

[47:28] Bill Kristol: "And the president's states are sending a whole different set of signals through his executive branch."

The administration's approach risks further alienating public opinion, as cases of unlawful deportations and judicial disrespect become more publicized. Goodman anticipates ongoing legal battles, with the Supreme Court likely playing a pivotal role in curbing the administration's oversteps.

Conclusion: The DOJ on a Collision Course with the Judiciary

The episode underscores a critical tension between the Trump-era DOJ and the U.S. judicial system. As the administration pushes forward with aggressive immigration policies, legal experts like Ryan Goodman warn of potential backfires, including diminished public trust and increased judicial resistance. The Supreme Court's intervention appears imminent, setting the stage for a significant clash over the rule of law and executive authority.

Notable Quotes:

• Ryan Goodman [03:25]: "The whole idea is that they would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the judge's intent was to conceal the immigrant... that's not criminal by any stretch."

• Bill Kristol [10:02]: "Immigration... at the heart of a lot of the conflicts with the courts."

• Ryan Goodman [26:44]: "It's about depriving people of their liberty without due process... that's the runaway implication."

• Ryan Goodman [34:37]: "Judge Henderson... saying this doesn't hold up."

• Bill Kristol [43:57]: "We're heading to something. We'll see."

Final Thoughts: This episode of Bulwark Takes provides a comprehensive analysis of the DOJ's contentious actions against a sitting judge and the broader implications for immigration policy and judicial independence. With expert insights from Ryan Goodman, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the legal battles unfolding and the potential for significant shifts in the balance of power between the executive branch and the judiciary.