Trump Fires Adviser Mike Waltz in Wake of Signalgate

Summary

Bulwark Takes: Trump Fires Adviser Mike Waltz in Wake of Signalgate
Release Date: May 1, 2025
Host/Author: The Bulwark

---

Introduction

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, the Bulwark team delves into the recent turmoil within President Trump's administration, focusing on the ousting of National Security Advisor Mike Waltz amidst the controversial Signalgate scandal. Hosts Sam Stein, Sarah Longwell, and Will Sommer dissect the events leading to Waltz's departure, the implications for the administration, and the emerging influence of Laura Loomer in reshaping the National Security Council (NSC).

---

Breaking Down Signalgate and Mike Waltz's Exit

Sam Stein opens the discussion by announcing the departure of Mike Waltz, President Trump's National Security Advisor, along with his deputy Alex Wong. Multiple outlets, including CBS's Jennifer Jacobs, Fox, and Politico, have confirmed the news. The catalyst for Waltz's exit appears to be a significant breach of protocol involving the accidental inclusion of the Atlantic's editor in a sensitive Signal chain, inadvertently sharing classified information.

Sam Stein [00:00]: "Mike Waltz, national security advisor for President Trump, is on the outs. ... He accidentally included the editor of the Atlantic on a single chain and then discussed incredibly sensitive classified information on the Signal chain. Kind of a big fuck up."

Sarah Longwell emphasizes that Waltz is the primary party facing the fallout, rather than Hegseth, who initially shared the classified information. She highlights the gravity of Waltz having Jeffrey Goldberg's contact information, which was mishandled, leading to the breach.

Sarah Longwell [00:45]: "The biggest thing is that Waltz is the one taking the fall... The sin here is not that you shared classified information, it's that you had Jeffrey Goldberg's number because you can."

Will Sommer provides technical details, explaining that the mishap occurred due to an auto-save error in the Signal app, resulting in incorrect contact information.

Will Sommer [01:52]: "...Mike Waltz's deputy had sent him Jeffrey Goldberg's info at one point long ago. And then Apple did that auto-save thing where it was saved under the wrong numbers."

Sam Stein critiques the administration's handling of classified information and points out Waltz's negligence as a significant embarrassment for the Trump administration.

Sam Stein [02:11]: "Trump will spin the classified information stuff... Jeff having Jeffrey Goldberg in your phone is the... issue for Waltz."

---

Patterns of Instability in Trump's Cabinet

The conversation shifts to a broader analysis of the Trump administration's pattern of high turnover and the precarious positions of his staffers.

Sam Stein [03:23]: "We remember the first term, Mike Flynn, gone within like, what, weeks? People who staff Trump inevitably will get burned."

Sarah Longwell agrees, noting that while Waltz was initially seen as one of the more competent picks for the administration, his irresponsibility made him the first target amidst the numerous internal issues.

Sarah Longwell [03:58]: "He is clearly wildly irresponsible... It looks like there's going to be one fall guy and it's going to be Waltz."

---

Laura Loomer's Rising Influence and Impact

A significant portion of the episode examines the role of Laura Loomer, a right-wing activist who has been instrumental in orchestrating the removals of several top NSC staffers, including Alex Wong.

Sam Stein introduces Loomer's involvement, questioning her potential nomination as Waltz's replacement.

Sam Stein [04:55]: "Loomer... is she going to be nominated as Mike Waltz's replacement? I mean, we have to ask."

Will Sommer elaborates on Loomer's aggressive tactics, including her public tweets targeting Alex Wong, and suggests that she may be acting on behalf of other factions within the Trump administration seeking to purge more traditional foreign policy figures.

Will Sommer [05:30]: "...she tweeted about Alex Wong. She tweeted 'scalp.' ... Alex Wong was her big target... Loomer was acting on behalf of some other factions within the Trump administration."

Sam Stein questions the seriousness of Loomer's influence, to which Will Sommer responds affirmatively, highlighting her role in multiple NSC staff firings.

Will Sommer [06:45]: "Quite seriously. ... She's got a bunch of people fired from the National Security Council."

Sarah Longwell criticizes Loomer's pursuit of recognition and her desire to gain influence within the White House, portraying her as an opportunist seeking prominence.

Sarah Longwell [07:22]: "She is just eager to show people that her influence matters... the eye of Sauron on you."

---

Implications for U.S. Foreign Policy and Administration Stability

The hosts discuss the broader consequences of Waltz's departure and Loomer's potential rise on U.S. foreign policy and the administration's stability.

Sam Stein raises concerns about the future of the NSC and the likely replacement for Waltz, expressing worry over the diminishing presence of experienced foreign policy officials like Marco Rubio and Mike Flynn.

Sam Stein [07:39]: "People who cared about foreign policy and a robust American presence on the global stage, like you said, they thought Waltz was actually a semi-respectable, decent pick... Serious concern."

Sarah Longwell echoes these concerns, suggesting that Trump's administration lacks trustworthy and competent individuals to manage sensitive areas like national security effectively.

Sarah Longwell [08:25]: "Trump feels like he'll get anybody he wants through. ... these are all such losers."

---

Concluding Insights and Reflections

In their final remarks, the hosts reflect on the combination of incompetence and deceit within the administration, underscoring the dangers posed by the current leadership dynamics.

Sarah Longwell [09:16]: "The mendacity coupled with the stupid is a dangerous combination."

Sam Stein adds a critical note on the hubris of the current cabinet officials, suggesting that their overconfidence exacerbates the severity of their failures.

Sam Stein [09:02]: "These people have a lot of hubris and then they always... it always hits harder when they fall."

---

Key Takeaways

• Mike Waltz's Departure: Waltz, the National Security Advisor, is ousted due to a significant breach involving the accidental sharing of classified information on Signal, primarily stemming from mishandling contact information.

• Laura Loomer's Influence: Loomer has played a pivotal role in the recent NSC staff purges, signaling a shift towards more radical elements within the administration exerting control.

• Administration Instability: The Trump administration continues to exhibit high turnover and instability among its staff, raising concerns about effective governance and foreign policy execution.

• Future Implications: The removal of experienced and moderately competent officials like Waltz and the rise of figures like Loomer may lead to a more erratic and less effective national security strategy.

---

Notable Quotes

• Sam Stein [00:00]: "Mike Waltz... a big fuck up."
• Sarah Longwell [00:45]: "The sin here is not that you shared classified information, it's that you had Jeffrey Goldberg's number because you can."
• Will Sommer [05:30]: "This is a bizarre world we live in where this kind of right-wing activist... is able to roll up and purge the NSC."
• Sarah Longwell [09:16]: "The mendacity coupled with the stupid is a dangerous combination."

---

This episode of Bulwark Takes provides a comprehensive analysis of the internal conflicts within the Trump administration, highlighting the precarious nature of its current leadership and the potential ramifications for U.S. national security and foreign policy.

Transcript

[Sam Stein]

Hey, guys, it's me, Sam Stein, managing editor at the block. I'm joined by Sarah Longwell. Will Sommer. We are here to give you some breaking news. Mike Walz, national security advisor for President Trump, is on the outs. He's leaving. Multiple outs are reporting this morning. Kudos to Jennifer Jacobs at cbs who was the first to get it. But now Fox and Politico both reporting that Mike Waltz is out, as well as his deputy Alex Wong. The reason is Trump kind of lost confidence in the guy. I suppose that happens when you accidentally include the editor of the Atlantic on a single chain and then you discuss incredibly sensitive classified information on the signal chain. Kind of a big fuck up. But then again, there are a lot of people who fucked up on that signal chain. So Sarah, what is your immediate take on this?

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, so the biggest thing is that Walls is the one taking the fall, not Hegseth, because Hexeth's the one who shared all the classified information. Now it is true. Walls is the one. And this was always going to be the cardinal sin. The cardinal sin was having Jeffrey Goldberg's information in his phone to begin with and then boomerang it really hard, like accidentally just dropping him in instead of. Because he saved he. And it's funny, his explanation of this is just we can all empathize. We can all empathize. He saves Jeffrey Goldberg's name under somebody else. His information under someone else's name.

[Sam Stein]

That wasn't the explanation, though. It was like I had it and they got like kind of transposed into my contacts.

[Sarah Longwell]

He means he saved Jeffrey Goldberg's number under the other guy's name.

[Sam Stein]

No, there was an explanation where he emailed the Jeffrey Goldberg.

[Will Sommer]

Well, Sam, I'm right, y'all. I mean, to be the tiebreaker here. Yeah, it was basically that like Mike Waltz's deputy had sent him Jeffrey Goldberg's info at one point long ago. And then I Apple did that like auto save thing where. So yeah, I mean, basically it was saved under the wrong numbers. So.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, but not by. Well, whatever. It doesn't matter. The point is, the bigger point is Sarah's right. The sin here is not that you shared classified information, it's that you had Jeffrey Goldberg's number because you can. Trump will spin the classified information stuff. He'll say, well, we, we kick the crap out of the Houthis, but he won't spin.

[Sarah Longwell]

Also not known for his, you know, classified information being something he treats with great care.

[Sam Stein]

No, it's not. It's not top of his list. Although he'll politicize it. But yeah, Jeff, having Jeffrey Goldberg in your phone is the. And that was the issue for Walls. But again, like, so does. Is Hegset in the clear? I. I don't know. I mean, I guess, probably.

[Sarah Longwell]

Probably. I think. Here's the thing about Walls. Walls. Well, I remember when Mike Walls was originally picked and I was like, well, that's one of the only semi normal people that Donald Trump has picked for this whole thing. So of course he's got to be the first to go. Now. He is clearly wildly irresponsible. Like, this chain was just one he set up. There was a ton of reporting around the time, like 20 signal chains that this guy had set up. So he was just. They're just, they're texting all the things and who knows what other. I mean, presumably the other chains didn't accidentally include the Atlantic's editor. And so who knows what sensitive information was being discussed there. This guy was. Should. He should be fired. I just think it's interesting. Seems like a lot of people should have gone down for this, but it looks like there's going to be one fall guy and it's going to be Walls.

[Sam Stein]

Before we move on to Loomer, Laura Loomer's role in all this, let's just talk sort of about Trump in the cabinet and the people around him and how much of a pattern this fits. I mean, obviously we all remember the first term, Mike Flynn, I mean, gone within like, what, weeks? It was not even weeks. People who staff Trump inevitably will get burned. Right. I mean, I don't want to go full Rick Wilson on this, but, like, you actually see this time and time again where people think they can live in this orbit and it turns out they can't.

[Sarah Longwell]

To be fair, this one's a little bit, well, not different.

[Sam Stein]

I mean, Mike, this one is a real up.

[Sarah Longwell]

Was also a real.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah.

[Sarah Longwell]

Screw up. And so, I mean, I think that what's weird about this one, honestly, to me, is that he fired somebody at all. I thought he was going to try to gut this one out. It seemed like they weren't going to do anything about it. And so my guess is, is that it's not the sin of being incompetent because they're all incompetent. It's not the sin of, you know, having like, set up these signal chains because it sounds like this is an administrative wide, administration wide thing that they're doing. It was. He's no longer trustworthy, I think, to them, because he had Jeffrey Goldberg's number in his phone. And, and maybe they're mad that, you know, he made the idiotic move of, like, obviously this is an enormous embarrassment for them. I mean, nothing has made them look more incompetent than this, other than Trump's handling of the economy and deporting people who are here, who are here legally, but keep going. Other than those, actually, there's a lot of things.

[Sam Stein]

Okay, fair enough. I'm sure, I'm sure if we put some thought into, we can come up with four more things will looming over this part of the time. Yes, Loomering, looming all over this is Laura Loomer, who clearly orchestrated, prior to this, an ouster of several top NSC staffers and then had her sights set on Alex Wong, who's also a deputy, who apparently reportedly is out with Walls. Just talk about the role she plays. And frankly, is she going to be nominated as Mike Wall's replacement? I mean, we have to ask.

[Will Sommer]

Well, as we were sitting down to record here, she tweeted about Alex Wong. She tweeted scalp. So, you know, she's clearly taking credit for it. I mean, this is, this is this bizarre world we live in where this kind of right wing activist who a few years ago was sort of like Persona non grata even in Trump world, now is able to roll up and purge the nsc. So, you know, Alex Wong was her big target. It's interesting. Well, right, so there were a couple of things he had previously worked for, like Marco Rubio or like, like he was previously seen as a more establishment Republican.

[Sam Stein]

Was it Tom Cotton or was it Marco Rubio? One of them?

[Will Sommer]

Tom Cotton definitely came out to defend him at some point, but basically it was that his wife's father had like some business connections to like a Chinese tech company, which seemed pretty nebulous, I'm sure. Obviously he's been through a background check already if he's the deputy at the National Security Council. And then finally it was basically that his wife was a former federal prosecutor who prosecuted people on Jan.6. And so these are all, like, pretty, pretty tenuous, but I think a little speculation on my part. I think Loomer was sort of acting on behalf of some other factions within the Trump administration and clearing out a lot of what, the more traditional Republicans in terms of foreign policy.

[Sam Stein]

How much, how, how serious should we take her influence in this?

[Will Sommer]

Quite seriously. I mean, I mean, she managed. She's got a bunch of people fired from the National Security Council, maybe the NSA director, you know, in addition to all that and his deputy. I mean, it's, it's crazy. And she kind of. But it's really funny at the same time. She's like, I can't get into the darn White House press corps. I want to go to the influencer briefing. So, you know, it's this weird kind of netherworld she operates.

[Sarah Longwell]

Well, that's so funny that that's what she wants because that's where like Prosbiak and those other weirdos. Good thing she gets to go meet directly with Trump.

[Will Sommer]

What if she gets meets with Trump? Yeah, fire this guy better than that.

[Sam Stein]

Nobody.

[Sarah Longwell]

She, she clearly doesn't. She's not trying to have like a soft touch behind the scenes, like tweeting scalp. Like, she is just eager to. Eager to show people that her influence matters and that you do not want the eye of Sauron on her. Eye of Sauron on you.

[Sam Stein]

It does feel like, though, for her, the influence is a means to getting sort of recognition. Right. And recognition comes with being at the White House briefing and so on and so forth. Let's go big picture here. So Walls is out. We don't know who is going to replace him, but frankly, like, people who cared about foreign policy and a robust American presence on the global stage, like you said, they thought Walls was actually a semi respectable, decent pick. And it's hard to imagine at this juncture having someone of that ilk replace him. And I think that's cause for some serious concern because you initially had Rubio in Walls as sort of one bulwark against the other people who were much more in the retrenchment camp. So how worried should people be?

[Sarah Longwell]

I mean, pretty worried. I think Trump feels like he'll get anybody he wants through. I mean, Mike Flynn. Speaking of Mike Flynn, is he a credible replacement here?

[Sam Stein]

Let me just leave on this picture that popped up in the New York Times of Mike Walls and the rest of the Cabinet. It's him opposing for the Times. It's a big, you know, take out on the Cabinet officials and he's giving the finger gun, which I thought was incredible because who poses that way? If you're the National Security Advisor, who poses that way, you're a serious human being. Don't do finger guns. That's just pretty lame. But it gets to the hubris that these people have, especially when you've already.

[Will Sommer]

Screwed up a couple times. Right. I'm the loose cannon.

[Sam Stein]

Oh, man. These people have a lot of hubris and then they always. It always hits harder when they fall. Sarah, will any last thoughts.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, I gotta say, this is true of Scott Jennings when I was watching him the other day. This is true of the North Korea style, like, cabinet meeting they had where they all went around the room and praised Trump. This is true of the Mike Walls photograph. These people are such dorks. Like, I just like, what? They're so lame. And like, if they weren't so dangerous, I keep being like, you know, the mendacity coupled with the stupid is a dangerous combination. But every time I see these things, I want to be like, how could these people be causing so much damage? They're such losers.

[Sam Stein]

Hey, on that note, thank you guys for joining us. Hey, to the people watching, thank you for watching and subscribe to the feed. We really appreciate. We'll talk to you soon.