Trump Fires Nat-Sec Staff After Meeting With Conspiracy Nut

Summary

Bulwark Takes: Trump Fires Nat-Sec Staff After Meeting With Conspiracy Nut

Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Will Sommer, Author of the False Flag Newsletter
Release Date: April 3, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, host Tim Miller and guest Will Sommer delve into the recent shakeup within President Trump's National Security Council (NatSec) following a controversial meeting with conspiracy theorist Laura Loomer. The discussion highlights the growing influence of MAGA-aligned figures within the White House and the implications of their actions on national security policies.

Laura Loomer's Rising Influence

Tim Miller opens the conversation by introducing Laura Loomer, describing her as a "conspiracy theorist" with a history of promoting unfounded and extremist views. Loomer's involvement in White House affairs has become a focal point, especially after her meeting with President Trump.

“She was just like, I hear there's a trans person, let's get him.” — [05:26] Tim Miller

Will Sommer elaborates on Loomer's background, noting her controversial statements, including claims that 9/11 was an "inside job." He emphasizes that having someone like Loomer influence NatSec personnel decisions is alarming.

“There was another guy who, last name Kanapathy... she's really really been focusing most of her fire on him.” — [06:49] Will Sommer

Firings Within the National Security Council

The centerpiece of their discussion revolves around the Axios report indicating multiple firings within Trump's National Security Council following Loomer's Oval Office meeting. These dismissals are not attributed to allowing Loomer near the White House but rather to perceived alignment with "neocons" or traditional Republican figures deemed unsuitable by MAGA factions.

Tim Miller expresses astonishment at Loomer's ability to effect significant personnel changes, highlighting the extent of her influence.

“Having her not just like, meeting with Trump... really speaks to what the true power base is here.” — [02:54] Tim Miller

Targeted Personnel and Motivations

The conversation shifts to specific individuals targeted by Loomer, with particular attention to Alex Wong, the Deputy National Security Director. Loomer accused Wong of being a Chinese spy and linked him to the "Signal Gate" fiasco, despite lacking concrete evidence.

Will Sommer points out the baseless nature of these accusations, suggesting they may be motivated by racial biases or political agendas rather than factual concerns.

“It's like let's get rid of this guy because he's of Chinese descent.” — [06:49] Tim Miller

Traditional Republican Views vs. MAGA Alignment

A significant theme is the contrast between traditional Republican national security staff and those aligned with the MAGA movement. Figures like Mike Waltz represent the old guard, holding "traditional, strong national security" views, which appear to be at odds with the current MAGA-driven direction.

Tim Miller reflects on his past experiences working with Alex Wong, noting Wong's traditional conservative stance and questioning the rationale behind his current targeting.

“He seemed still to be a pretty even keel kind of traditional conservative views.” — [05:13] Tim Miller

The Role of Disinformation and Conspiracy Theories

The episode underscores how disinformation and conspiracy theories are being weaponized within the White House to purge staff perceived as insufficiently MAGA-aligned. Loomer's actions are portrayed as part of a broader strategy to reshape the NatSec team according to extremist ideologies rather than sound policy.

Will Sommer speculates on the possible sources of Loomer's information, suggesting that internal rivalries or factions within the White House may be fueling these unfounded claims.

“I'm curious if she's getting this from rival factions in the White House or the National Security Council.” — [03:30] Will Sommer

Impact on National Security

The firings and the underlying motivations raise concerns about the stability and effectiveness of the National Security Council. Removing experienced personnel in favor of individuals driven by conspiracy theories could undermine the United States' national security apparatus.

Tim Miller remarks on the gravity of having key national security staff replaced based on extremist influences, questioning the future direction of NatSec policies.

“It's crazy... dictating the staffing there is being dictated by the online right.” — [09:21] Tim Miller

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Tim Miller emphasizing the unsettling nature of Laura Loomer's influence over high-level national security appointments. The discussion paints a picture of a National Security Council in flux, grappling with internal power struggles and the infiltration of extremist ideologies, posing potential risks to the nation's security infrastructure.

“All right, everybody else, subscribe to the feed. We'll be seeing you soon.” — [09:21] Tim Miller

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This episode of Bulwark Takes offers a critical examination of the intersection between conspiracy theories and national security, highlighting the potential dangers of allowing extremist voices to influence key government positions.

Transcript

[Tim Miller]

Hey, it's Tim Miller of the Bulwark here with my colleague Will Sommer, author of our False Flag newsletter that looks at what is happening in MAGA crazy land. And once again, MAGA crazy land has come to the highest levels of the White House. We had two stories out this morning, one for the New York Times about how conspiracy theorist Laura Loomer, who, if you don't know her, good for you. We'll explain who that is in a second, but rather crazy individual was in the White House. Now we have a follow up from Axios about how there have been multiple firings on Trump's National Security Council after the Loomer visit. No, the firings are not firing the people who let Laura Loomer anywhere near the White House. It seems like the firings were of the targets of Loomer people that these MAGA online folks think are too aligned with the neocons or the old Bush Republicans. So that is at least my understanding of the contours of the story. Will, why don't you go a little deeper for us?

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, sure. So Laura Loomer is a conspiracy theorist. She has many unsavory incidents in her past. Most recently she, among other things, she called 9 11, said there was an inside job. I mean, this is someone you don't want setting the policy or the personnel policy at the National Security Council. But for a few weeks, ever since Signal Gate, which I guess was just a week ago, if you can believe it, she has been on the warpath trying to oust various people on the National Security Council via posts on X. And incredibly, I mean, I talked to her a week ago and she said basically that she was being iced out, that they wouldn't even let her come to a White House press briefing. Now cut to a few days later, she's meeting with Trump in the Oval Office on Wednesday and basically laying out her arguments for why these people should be fired. And, you know, according to this Axios report that just came out, it seems like she succeeded.

[Tim Miller]

I mean, this is insane. Like, in addition, I've not, you know, every one man's conspiracy theorist is a number another man's truth teller. But so in addition to all of her, like, wild views that she's promoted and she's been unapologetically Islamophobic, you know, at times, like, it's like, described herself as such. Right. I mean, you know, she has advanced some, you know, anti Semitic views at times. Right. It's like this is like somebody that. It was a big deal during the campaign when she was like, on the plane. There are people even inside Trump world that were like, this person's too crazy for us. Which is a pretty high bar, to say the least. When, you know, the Weeknd Fox and Friends host is running the military. And so, like, having her, not just like, meeting with Trump, but I guess having enough influence, assuming this insane Axios story is true, to get some scalps inside the White House, I guess it really speaks to what the true power base is here and why your. Your beat is your beat.

[Will Sommer]

Yes, I mean, I think that's. That's right. We can see how these figures who are just, you know, you would imagine sort of just shooting off these posts into oblivion. In fact, they're able to, to gain, you know, some, some amount of credence in the White House. And I think also here it's curious, I'm wondering how a lot of the stuff she's been posting is almost like, read like opposition research or something. I'm curious about if she's getting this from rival factions in the White House or the National Security Council. This idea that if we could just convince Trump to get rid of this person and this person, our more. Perhaps America first faction would gain more power.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, okay. So you never have to hand it to Laura Loomer, but I'm gonna do it anyway on two points. All right. Number one, for longtime viewers of the feed, you will know that when Kari Lake accosted me at a bar in Phoenix, Laura Loomer was the peacemaker. That's a real thing that happened. So I appreciated that. Thank you, Laura. Second peacemaker, the de escalator maybe rather than peacemaker, she kind of told Kerry to take a chill pill. In addition to that, the other thing I got to hand to her is that while whatever you think, and I think pretty negatively about her foreign policy worldview, et cetera, and that of the America first people at large. It is true that the Trump national security team had a notable number of people that had more traditional old school Republican views. Mike Waltz was. And the word neocon has kind of lost its descriptive value because it's been used as a pejorative for so long, but was essentially a Bush neocon type on foreign policy, bipartisan type. And I had Tom Malinowski on the podcast a while back, who's a Democratic national, tough on national security Democrat. And he was just like so disappointed in Waltz because said that like him and Waltz had seen eye to eye on so much and Waltz had kind of flipped to get in Trump's world. So. And then obviously there's Marco Rubio at Secretary of State, some of the staffers that Waltz brought on. So it's not, not true. Like at least that like narrow point that Loomer is making that Trump has some people around him in the national security world who are maybe more aligned or at least had been more aligned with like the traditional Bush like worldview than the America first worldview.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, I mean I think what we're seeing is this idea that Mike Waltz is weak after signal gate and so maybe he's not going to get fired, but that, that people undermining him see this as an opportunity to strike and kind of clear out some of his deputies.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. So who. Are there any names that have been mentioned that Laura's been going after?

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, so she's really been on a tear. I mean like she, she was just like, there's a trans staffer. We gotta find out who this trans staffer is and get him out. Is that true? Yeah, no. I mean she didn't even have the name in that case. She was just like, I hear there's a trans person, let's get him. You know, and I mean she's posting this publicly and that's, that's who's meeting with Trump. It's crazy. There was another guy who, last name Kanapathy who had worked with like previously worked with some intel official who signed the, you know, the Hunter Biden laptop is disinformation letter. And, and so there's kind of like this like very strained guilt by association. And then the big one is a guy named Alex Wong who is the deputy national security director or advisor. And basically she's really been focusing most of her fire on him, her arguments that he's, you know, I mean she basically alleged that he's a Chinese spy and that he was somehow involved in the signal fiasco to embarrass Trump. She was really basically no evidence of this. She says, well his, his wife was a prosecutor and she prosecuted some J6 people. And then his father in law was a large stakeholder in a big Chinese tech company, you know, perhaps, but I mean at the same time one imagines that goes into the security clearance and everything. And so it really feels like, I guess for me looking at it like it's just basically like let's get rid of this guy because he's of Chinese descent.

[Tim Miller]

Certainly you could never go wrong assuming that motivations are related to racism here in Magaworld. I think there's another level of this though. Particularly with Alex Wong, I hadn't followed this as closely as you did, so I'm interested that he is one of the main targets. I got to tell you, when he got hired from that job, I raised an eyebrow. It surprised me because I'd worked with Alex in 2012. He was a young but kind of up and coming person in Romney world. And at the time, obviously this happened to a lot of my former colleagues where it's like Invasion of the Body Snatchers. There's definitely been Invasion of the Body Snatchers for some people that I used to work with. But Alex, even into the Trump world, from afar I watched him, he seemed still to be a pretty even keel kind of traditional conservative views on most things. Adapting where you need to for maga, kind of more in the, I don't know what, like three years ago, Rubio mold type. And so when he got that job, when somebody told me that he did back in January, I was like, that's just a weird fit. And I don't know if that works. And I've had several people text me who are not Laura Loomer types, who are regular people who don't have any evidence and they're not really making an accusation, but they're like, they wouldn't be surprised if Alex Wong had Jeffrey Goldberg's number in his phone. Right. If he's Waltz's deputy. If you're kind of going to start looking around for how did Jeffrey Goldberg get into this would not be a crazy person to look at because it's like he's been a traditional, strong unnational security kind of Republican that is like, kind of. And Jeffrey Goldberg has a lot of those types of people as his sources. Right. So it is one of those scenarios where it's like, you know, the MAGA folks see a staffer that like does not fit their crazy ilk and like, rather than like try to make a policy argument, you see them falling back on, I guess, you know, Kung flu type, anti China attacks.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah. I mean, you can see that there's, you know, I don't think it's an accident that she previously, Laura hadn't like really focused a lot on like the personnel of the National Security Council. So I think there are agendas at play here. And you know, this is also something that doesn't. I don't think the MAGA base is like, talk to me about the deputy undersecretary or whatever, you know, and so I think this is really an argument for Trump that she's making man wild times.

[Tim Miller]

Well, I'm going to tell you, Laura Loomer, I guess having enough influence over the President of the United States to get members of the National Security Council fired. Not like random people in the Department of Commerce, the National Security Council. The staffing there is being dictated by the online. Right. I'm glad you're out there monitoring it for us. All right, everybody else, subscribe to the feed. We'll be seeing you soon.