Andrew Edgar (1:41)

Okay, okay.

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Andrew Edgar (1:52)

All right, Emin, what do I have to do?

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Sam Stein (2:00)

Hey, everybody. It's me, Sam Stein, managing editor at the Bulwarking with Andrew Edgar, who is dealing with illness and yet still coming on. Bulwark takes. This is like the Michael Jordan flu game of Bulwark takes.

Andrew Edgar (2:14)

Exactly. Yeah. Playing hurt.

Sam Stein (2:16)

It's going to be a remarkable performance. People will talk about this for ages. We just watched two pretty impressive briefings. One was Trump's Cabinet briefing, which included a sort of North Korea style intro with all the Cabinet officials heaping praise on the. On the guy. And then the other one was another North Korean style moment where the Department of Defense held its first press briefing today, and it featured a new slate of Pentagon correspondence that were willing to sacrifice all their integrity and dignity and sign a pledge to say they wouldn't report on basic functions of the Pentagon. Andrew watched the Pentagon one. I watched some of it, but I watched mostly the Trump Cabinet one. So dealer's choice. We're gonna start a Trump Cabinet. Sorry, buddy. So we could go in one of two directions here. One is like the serious news and the other is the sort of laughy stuff. I'll go with serious because I'm a serious person. So this, obviously, it's what people. This was the first time that the press got to ask Pete Hegseth what happened with the double tap strike in the Caribbean on September 2nd. And Hegseth kind of broke some news here, and I'm not quite sure what to make of the significance of it. He was asked, what happened with you specifically, did you sign off on that second strike? Because up until this point last night, in fact, Hexeth was trading. Well, I support what happened, but it was a subordinate who actually directed it, and he kind of disavowed ownership of the strike while saying he approved of it. And this is what he had to say when pressed about it at the Cabinet. Andrew, you pick up on the flip side.

Pete Hegseth (4:02)

Now, the first couple of strikes, as you would, as any leader would want, you want to own that responsibility. So I said, I'm going to be the one to make the call after getting all the information and make sure it's the right strike. That was September 2nd. There's a lot of intelligence that goes into that, building that case and understanding that a lot of people providing information. I watched that first strike live, as you can imagine, at the Department of War. We got a lot of things to do. So I didn't stick around for the hour and two hours, whatever, where all the sensitive site exploitation digitally occurs. So I moved on to my next meeting a couple of hours Later I learned that that commander had made the. Which he had the complete authority to do.

Sam Stein (4:40)

And.

Pete Hegseth (4:40)

And by the way, Admiral Bradley made the correct decision to ultimately sink the boat and eliminate the threat. He sunk the boat. Sunk the boat and eliminated the threat. And he was the right call. We have his back. And the American people are safer because narco terrorists know you can't bring drugs through the water. And eventually on land, if necessary, to the American people, we will eliminate that threat, and we're proud to do it. So you didn't see any survivors?

Andrew Edgar (5:08)

To be clear, after that first strike.

Pete Hegseth (5:11)

I did not personally see survivors, but I stand because the thing was on fire. It was exploded in fire smoke. You can't see anything.

Andrew Edgar (5:19)

You got digital.

Pete Hegseth (5:20)

This is called the fog of war. This is what you and the press don't understand. You sit in your air conditioned offices or up on Capitol Hill and you nitpick and you plant fake stories in the Washington Post about kill everybody phrases on anonymous sources not based in anything, not based in any truth at all. And then you want to throw up really irresponsible terms about American heroes, about the judgment that they made. I wrote a whole book on this topic because of what politicians and the press does to war fighters.

Andrew Edgar (5:49)

Yeah, Pete Hegseth, real anti air conditioning. I think he has his office set to 82 at all times because that's what real war fighters do. There's a lot of interesting stuff going on there. The narrative he is, he is painting, we should be clear, is not necessarily implausible, right? I mean, like, we had that very insane Washington Post story that raised a lot of questions about this last night. We got some, some New York Times reporting that suggests, you know, maybe there's more like wiggle room in some of this stuff than, than the Post story had suggested. It could be the case that, that Hegseth, you know, did not have, as he said, did not have that specific knowledge of the double tap as it was happening, had not given a specific command for that to take place the way he says, he had to get onto something else very important, like putting Mark Kelly on blast, on Twitter or something like that, whatever the next thing on his schedule was. So that's plausible. It's interesting here because there's levels to this thing, right? I mean, if what the Washington Post story, like, originally suggested, which is that Hegseth had not only ordered this double tap, but had sort of like explicitly ordered this double tap to kill the survivors in the water, that would be kind of open and shut, just a war Crime, Right. Or murder, if it's not actually war. I mean, like, there would be almost nothing else to say about it. The narrative that Hegseth is putting forward is more defensible in certain respects, but it is also, we should not forget, still taking place in this environment of like bizarre, like extra legal, extrajudicial attacks on these boats in the first place. Right. So like, if, if his narrative there is true, then we're kind of back to where we thought we were, you know, know, before this Washington Post story came out at all, which is this insanely dark place anyway. Right. But not necessarily this open and shut.

Sam Stein (7:33)

Thing that I guess let's just take him at his word here and I will just note, not that it matters significantly, but you could tell in his answer, he's looking down at the paper in front of him, he's reading. So this is obviously something he had, you know, pre planned, which is fine, happens. But if this is true to his word, then would Admiral Bradley be the one who committed the alleged war crime?

Andrew Edgar (7:58)

Not if it were actually the case that the thing that was still being targeted was this damaged but not yet sunk boat. I mean, that was sort of what the New York Times reporting suggested is that maybe the target itself had not been like fully taken out in the first strike. I mean, basically what you're getting into here is this story where these guys are snuggling right up, like to the very edge of the definition of what might be construed as like legal under, under these stretch. You know, it's.

Sam Stein (8:25)

What happened here, as Hegseth says, is that he had to go congratulate them, got out in that they didn't bother to alert him to the fact that they had to take another strike at the boat. They didn't even, didn't cross their mind to say, hey, can you just make sure that the defense Secretary, who prides himself on being, you know, on top of all these matters, he said in his answer, you know, you're the defense buck stops with you. You want to know what's going on. And he in fact said on Fox he had watched the whole thing live. They didn't bother to say, you know what, before we launch another strike at these two survivors in this boat that Pete Hegseth himself claimed was up in flames, smoke everywhere, fog of war. We're not going to call him. We're just going to do it. I mean, look, maybe that absolves him of some serious legal problems, but it certainly doesn't look good from the perspective of, hey, we trust that the Secretary of Defense should be looped in on incredibly important strategic matters. And maybe I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Maybe that's just normal standard operation. But it is notable that according to his own retelling, he was not looped in on this.

Andrew Edgar (9:35)

Yeah. And I don't want to miss the forest for the trees here because it is obviously really striking to see Hegseth and Trump both, you know, retreating to this posture of. Well, you know, I didn't have all the specifics at the moment it was carried out. You know, they're not admitting any fault, they're not admitting anything wrong happened. But they, it is interesting to see them sort of like retreat to that, sort of like more, more tactically defensible space.

Sam Stein (9:57)

Yeah. And it's happening. And again, not to miss the forest or trees. It's like this is a incident in a broader march to war that is happening. Right. I mean we are. And there's another moment in the cabinet meeting where. And it's not even getting that much attention. But basically the President says that we're going to be start, we're going to start doing this on land. I mean, he says, let's listen to the clip right now about what the next phase in our actions against Venezuelan drug smugglers. And I guess in relation the Venezuelan government is going to be.

Donald Trump (10:31)

And we're going to start doing those strikes on land too. You know, the land is much easier. It's much easier. And we know the routes they take. We know everything about them. We know where they live, we know where the bad ones live. And we're going to start that very soon too.

Sam Stein (10:45)

So there you have it. No equivocation. We are going to start strikes on land. I mean, it's not even like we're going to seek authorization. We're looking at strikes on land. We're debating whether to. We are going to do it. We're just marching in effect to some sort of low grade war. It looks like Bulwark Takes is sponsored by Ora Frames this holiday season. I have a lot more gifts on my list than good ideas. If you're looking for something with a real personal touch, I have it on good authority that aura frames will crush it. The producer who wrote this ad attests that the aura frames he gave his family were a hit last year. In fact, Sarah Longwell has one in her office that she swears by. I've seen it. Looks nice. You can upload unlimited photos and video, just download the aura app and connect to Wi Fi. It's about that easy. You can preload photos before it ships and keep adding them anytime from anywhere. If you want to send your parents photos of the kids, you can load them right onto your aura frame. Trust me, my Jewish parents love photos of my kids. Each frame comes in a premium gift box with no price tag. You can even add a personalized message for your recipient before the frame arrives. For a limited time. Save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get $35 off Aura's best selling Carver mat frames named number one by wire cutter. Use promo code Bulwark Takes at checkout. That's a U R A frames.com promo code bulwark Takes. This deal is exclusive to listeners and frames sell out very fast. So order yours now to get in time for the holidays. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.

Andrew Edgar (12:24)

Not to sort of waylay your plans for how this is all going to get laid out or anything, but I wanted to bring up.

Sam Stein (12:28)

Go ahead buddy.

Andrew Edgar (12:29)

Pentagon briefing that touched on this exact three thing. This has been this very weird moment in time, right, where as I'm sure everybody out there is aware, the Pentagon hegseth kicked all of the sort of traditional mainstream and also trade defense press out of the Pentagon press pool because they wouldn't sign this sort of like semi loyalty pledge. Everyone's familiar. So we got this first briefing today of kind of like the new guys. It's a bunch of right wing like MAGA influencers and folks like Laura Lou.

Sam Stein (13:01)

And you were impressed by their work. You thought it was great journalism.

Andrew Edgar (13:06)

Well, well, let me get into some of that because, because there, there were some like ridiculous questions and you know, really amateurish stuff as well. But there were also some semi sharp questions as well because maga, like as an in, as a body, is not humongously excited to go to war anywhere and certainly not in Venezuela. I mean like you got some like hardcore America Firster isolationist types who think that, you know, getting entangled in like a shooting war on the ground in Venezuela would be a humongous mistake. So let me queue up this clip of this reporter Bradley Devlin from the Daily Signal, basically queuing up Kingsley Wilson, the DOD press secretary, to comment on that.

Pete Hegseth (13:52)

53% in a recent CBSUGOV poll said they support the strikes on these drug.

Andrew Edgar (13:58)

Boats, but 70% said no military operations within Venezuela.

Pete Hegseth (14:03)

Nevertheless, members of Congress are increasingly calling.

Andrew Edgar (14:05)

For regime change there.

Pete Hegseth (14:07)

What's the Department of War's message to.

Rocket Money Advertiser (14:09)

Those Members of Congress, the Department of War stands behind the president 100%. And we will execute on the orders that our Commander in Chief gives us, and we're proud to do so.

Sam Stein (14:17)

That will continue.

Rocket Money Advertiser (14:18)

And again, any decision that is going to be made about certain military actions in the Western hemisphere region will be the President's alone.

Andrew Edgar (14:26)

So you can kind of see the tension there, right? I mean, like, Devlin is, is trying to kind of cue this up as the, these calls for regime change and these calls for war. These are coming from certain sort of bloodthirsty neoconservative types in Congress, right? And like, these are people the President hates. So it's like it's trying to put that, put that on them. But, but then, you know, Kingsley Wilson gives this total non answer that's like, well, look like we're going to hit him if we want to hit him. And meanwhile, you have Don out here who is increasingly just talking openly about the fact that, yeah, this is actually the plan. Right. I mean, like, we're going to be going in there and doing this stuff and it's just. I don't know. I don't. I mean, it's, it really does feel like we're just sleepwalking into it.

Sam Stein (15:05)

It was, it was like the sort of like, perfect question for a MAGA reporter, which is, we don't like what's happening here, but we're not going to blame the President, even though he's chiefly responsible for.

Andrew Edgar (15:15)

Right.

Sam Stein (15:16)

The second thing is I think I could be a press secretary. Honestly, I think I can do it. Like Kingsley Wilson, she just, you know, just throw some AI slop. Might as well. We stand behind. It's like you could throw anything at me and I'll just say, yeah, we stand behind the President. That's not that hard. I want a little bit more flavor from the press secretaries. Like, come on, give us a, give us a little like something to work with.

Andrew Edgar (15:37)

We could do a whole video on, on her. I mean, like, she's, she's very, very raw and new at this. I mean, like, she's done a couple of off camera briefings all year.

Sam Stein (15:44)

I want to, I want to do a video where I pretend to be the press secretary and you throw like insane questions. That means, see if you can get me like, off topic. I bet I can do this.

Andrew Edgar (15:54)

Well, I'm just saying, I think you would probably do a better job. I mean, like, she just. Even in this, like, real home field advantage situation, obviously this is not really the point of what we're talking about right now, but, like, she accidentally referred to Pete Hegseth as the Secretary of Defense at one point, which, you know, their whole thing is that he's the Secretary of War. Now. She, she, she weirdly, like, acknowledged, unprompted, that, that, you know, experts have analyzed that their strikes on Iran only set back their nuclear program two years, you know, which is not really the kind of thing they like to talk about. So it's, it was very plain.

Sam Stein (16:21)

This is your first one.

Andrew Edgar (16:23)

And yes, I think, I think they should, I think they ought to put you in, Sam. I think you'd do a good job.

Sam Stein (16:27)

I think it could be. We could do a feature here where it's like, you know, see if you can. See if I can like, pass the test. But that's for another video. This is where I think Trump's like, you know, for his many flaws, like the guy, you know, you gotta give him that. He, he adds a little flavor to these briefings, except when he's not staying awake. And this is the, the other issue, the more comedic issue from the cabinet meeting, which was there are various times during, not the question and answer session, but when the cabinet officials were lavishing praise on him where he clearly was drifting. And we have a little bit of a montage for folks to watch and you can judge like this, this strikes me as midday nap style head bobbing. I've been there. Like, I'm not judging. I appreciate a good midday nap, but I'm not the President. So let's take a look and you can tell me if, if this is full sleep, half sleep, how you grade.

Pete Hegseth (17:14)

It, pilot programs that we're putting out there. And if these are going to work, leg up always, and make sure that we're paying attention.

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And we want our workforce to be.

Sam Stein (17:23)

Educated, global coalition of countries that line up behind the peace deal, behind the board of peace. And it's still. Every day is a challenge, but it's been driven personally by the President. It's the reason why we're involved in.

Pete Hegseth (17:34)

This whole Ukraine, Russia conflict.

Sam Stein (17:36)

That's not our war.

Pete Hegseth (17:37)

It's not the President's war.

Sam Stein (17:38)

This war started.

Pete Hegseth (17:39)

It never would have happened if you, you've been president.

Sam Stein (17:41)

I mean, I've been there in like, you know, high holiday services hour one and a half. And I'm just drifting and I do the little head jerk thing. That, that to me is like. What, you don't think?

Andrew Edgar (17:52)

No, that is, yeah, that is the most relatable he has really ever been in these moments. Right. I mean, it's like, it's. It's. It's very relatable in the specific sense that, like, a lot of times you're. You're in a place where you want to be there. You're like, you.

Donald Trump (18:04)

You.

Andrew Edgar (18:04)

You were excited going in. Like, I don't know, I've gone to, like, classical music concerts or something, something like that, where I'm like, this is gonna be really fun. And this is Trump's thing. Like, he gets all his favorite people around him and they just butter him up endlessly, but it drags on. It's all a little bit the same, and he's heard it all before, and before you know it, he's nodding off, he's gone, man. Get it together. You wanted to be here. But.

Sam Stein (18:24)

But wasn't he posting, like. I think he posted over a hundred times through the course of the night. So he, like, got no sleep.

Andrew Edgar (18:30)

He really was really something. Yeah. He went on a real Truth Social binge last night. Also relatable. The doom scroll was. Was very powerful for the President.

Sam Stein (18:38)

All night long, one post a minute, and he, like, went over 100. So he was up there all night, scrolling. Of course the man is going to be tired. I don't begrudge him.

Andrew Edgar (18:47)

He had a post after this binge. He had a post, like, right before 6am that was something like, I just love Truth Social. It's like the best site out there. He's like. He really, really was feeling himself this morning, you know, like, out in the echo chamber of his social media platform, just throwing chum to the fans all night long and. Yeah, and you end up nodding off a little bit in the Cabinet meeting the next day. That's just what. That's.

Sam Stein (19:08)

The guy doesn't do. The guy doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke, he doesn't do drugs. This is his drug. Like, he. He gets high on this. No wonder he was staying up on that. No wonder he was snoozing this morning. All right, last bit. Sort of point of personal privilege, because it's a local issue, but he did weigh in on one of D.C. the D.C. region's airports. He does not have particularly good things to say about Dulles. I'm going to zag a little bit here, but let's listen to Trump talk about Dulles and what he wants to do with that particular airport.

Donald Trump (19:39)

We're also going to rebuild Dulles Airport because it's not a good airport. It should be a great airport. It's not a good airport at all. It's a terrible airport. It was incorrectly designed with a good building, actually. It's got a beautiful terminal. Saarinen was the architect, one of the greatest architects in the world at the time. A great architect. And so they have a great building and a bad airport. But we're going to turn that around, and we're going to make Dulles Airport serving Washington and Virginia, Maryland, et cetera. We're going to make that into something really spectacular. We have an amazing plan for it.

Sam Stein (20:17)

I mean, okay, I know that everyone hates Dulles, no doubt. I get it. It's the people movers. It's the fact that you go into the terminal, got to go all the way and get on those people movers. Go to the other place where the gates are. He's right. That the. The. The terminal itself is. Is architecturally very nice. It's quite beautiful. I don't mind all this anymore. I think it's actually okay. Like, it's never. I mean, there are very problematic parts, but if you get there and you don't have to wait in that horrible security line, let's say you get there early, It's a totally fine airport. The dining options are serviceable. I don't think it's particularly packed compared to a lot of other airports I've been to. I'm fine with those. If he wants to make it nicer, whatever, have at it. Get rid of the people movers. But I don't think it should be, like, the top issue for the President.

Andrew Edgar (21:04)

Yeah, I don't know. They could make Doles like the most majestic, beautiful, wonderful airport in America, and I still would never want to go there. It's just way too fucking far. You know, like. Like Reagan. Reagan right there in Arlington.

Sam Stein (21:15)

Reagan.

Andrew Edgar (21:16)

The southwest terminal at Reagan. It's got like six. Yeah.

Sam Stein (21:21)

What, Dolos and Reagan?

Andrew Edgar (21:22)

No, dolas and Reagan.

Sam Stein (21:24)

How do you say duelist? Talking about Dulles.

Andrew Edgar (21:29)

We're like half an hour into this video, and you're nitpicking my pronunciation.

Sam Stein (21:34)

Yeah, like the President Reagan.

Andrew Edgar (21:37)

What is happening right now? No, we're gonna have to cut all this out. The dca, the one in Arlington. The one where you show up 25 minutes before you're supposed to board and you zoom right through security and it's like a one minute walk to your gate. I used to fly out of there constantly when I was a campaign reporter a few years ago. I have brand loyalty for Reagan until I die. All you guys can do what you want with dollars.

Sam Stein (22:01)

I will have in the end. It is an easier experience to do Reagan, but I think Dallas gets a bad rap. I'm not. I'm not anti Dallas. I'm not even anti the people movers. Honestly, it's kind of. It's kind of enjoyable. Unless they crash, then that's. That's not enjoyable. All right, buddy. I'm just so impressed at your ability to make it through this Bulwark. Take barely able to eat, barely able to breathe. You're sick as a dog. And look at you.

Andrew Edgar (22:27)

I might vomit. At least you didn't do it earlier.

Sam Stein (22:29)

We'll find out soon enough. All right, Andrew Egger, author of the Great Morning Shots. And I'm Sam Stein, managing editor of the Bulwark. Subscribe to this feed where you get a whole host of different discussion topics, including the status of the DMV's, airports. We'll talk to you soon.

Rocket Money Advertiser (22:45)

What do you think makes the perfect snack?

Sam Stein (22:47)

Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.

Rocket Money Advertiser (22:50)

Could you be more specific?

Sam Stein (22:51)

When is cravenient? Okay, like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right down the street at a.m. p.m. Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at a.m. pM.

Donald Trump (23:01)

I'm seeing a pattern here.

Sam Stein (23:02)

Well, yeah, we're talking about what I.

Andrew Edgar (23:04)

Crave, which is anything from am, pm.

Sam Stein (23:06)

What more could you want?

Pete Hegseth (23:07)

Stop by AMPM where the snacks and.

Sam Stein (23:09)

Drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's cravenience. Am PM Too much.

Andrew Edgar (23:14)

Good stuff.

Sam Stein (23:15)

Quick, choose a meal deal with McValue. The five dollar McChicken meal deal, the $6 McDouble meal deal, or the new $7 Daily Double meal deal, each with its own small fries, drink and four McNuggets. There's actually no rush. I'm just excited for McDonald's for a limited time only.

Andrew Edgar (23:28)

Prices and participation may vary. Not badly for McDelivery.