JVL (3:23)

Yeah. Not even old enough to drink.

Sarah Longwell (3:26)

Yeah. I, it is the day before Thanksgiving. I mean, extremely heartbreaking. And, and it's one of those moments where, like, you just sort of want to say, let's, let's take a beat on. We don't know. Like, there's no point in speculating right now what the motives were. We don't know or why this, this happened. They are, they are tragedies, and they are tragedies that of course, end up being sort of, they end up in the political context. And so, you know, and it, it led Trump. Trump has been sort of lashing out since this happened. He has been lashing out in general. This is the third, like, as one of the reporters was just pointing out, right? Because Trump saying, you know, this person shouldn't be here. The reporter's pointing out that he is here because the Trump DOJ granted asylum. Trump lashes out at her and calls her terrible. And it's like the third female reporter he has, like, seriously lashed out at. And then he sent this long screed last night in the middle of night, late, late in the night, it's going to have implications. Like, I don't know what those implications are yet. But the fact that Donald Trump tweeted this, like, this incident, we've been in kind of this state of. Trump's putting National Guard places. And everybody understands, don't take the bait. Don't let Trump force escalation. This is one of those moments where we probably find ourselves now with this reverberating and some kind of an escalation. And I would say the first point of that escalation has been the tweet from last night. And so now we can, we can dig in on that before we do.

JVL (5:12)

So I want to, I want to use myself as an object lesson in bad thinking. So because this is, you know, I think we, we all have to question our own how we react to these things. My first reaction to this story was these two kids in the National Guard never should have been there. They shouldn't have been in Washington. They were deployed there and they're dead. Because Trump had this thing that he wanted, like he just needed to flex his muscles. He was gonna. And again, that was my first plus reaction. But now learning more about the shooter, I think that's not true. Somebody who drives cross country is, Was going to kill somebody. And so if it hadn't been them, if the National Guardian never been deployed to D.C. we don't know everything yet, but it sure sounds like this is the kind of guy who was going to find somebody to hurt somewhere. And so, like, again, this is me telling on myself, like, my first blush, like, yeah, actually that may not be helpful, right? Like, it's bad that Trump deploy the National Guard to DC, but. And maybe, maybe these two kids wouldn't have gotten shot, but maybe somebody else somewhere would have, because again, this seems like just a disturbed or evil or radicalized person and we don't know which it is, but hopefully we'll find out so we can make some, some real decisions. Anyway, I just say this to everybody as a way of like, hey, slow your roll. Like, you don't, you know, don't, don't go jumping with your first impulses. That's all.

Sarah Longwell (6:35)

I think that's right. I think it's, it's okay to acknowledge, like, the deploying of the National Guard just isn't, isn't child's play. Like, it's not. You don't just do this stuff. It creates these complicated situations. But I also think it's hard because there is sort of a political inflaming context that surrounds all of it, while at the same time really always does come down to people doing awful things for unimaginable reasons.

JVL (7:09)

In any other time, certainly in our lifetimes in America, the response of presidents to moments like this, to flashpoints, regardless of where their politics are, is to try to tamp down everything, right? No matter what, whether it is a terrorist attack or shooting at a gay nightclub or racially and, you know, motivated murder. No, more like, when big national stuff like this happens, the president, whether he is Barack Obama or Bill Clinton or George W. Bush or Ronald Reagan, the response is always take the temperature down, because that's the job. Not this president. So he, he went on to Truth Social and last night posted like, for him, what is, like an essay, basically a very happy Thanksgiving salutation to all of our great American citizens and patriots who have been so nice in allowing our country to be divided, disrupted, carved up Murdered, beaten, mugged and laughed at along with certain other foolish countries throughout the world for being, quote, politically correct and just plain stupid when it comes to immigration. Goes on from there. Talking about how a migrant earning $30,000 with a green card will get roughly $50,000 in yearly benefits for their. This does feel like it was ghostwritten by Stephen Miller. I would say this is long enough and filled with enough quasi facts. He calls the seriously Governor of Minnesota, Tim walls, does nothing, etc. Etc.

Sarah Longwell (8:45)

He says, I will permanently pause migration from all third world countries, denaturalize migrants who undermine domestic tranquility, and deport any foreign national who is a public charge, security risk or non compatible with Western civilization. I want to talk about this because this is, this is sort of where Trump, I think, has been wanting to go. And he is going to much like that guy big balls. Him being jumped in D.C. is what led to them deploying the National Guard, which is still there months later, despite the fact that these guys have had nothing to do and they just plant trees and clean up trash. But Trump does this thing where denaturalized migrants who undermine domestic tranquility. Now that is a wildly subjective what does it mean to undermine domestic tranquility? But, but here's the thing that he's saying, and I want people to understand this and how pernicious it is. Like this is one of the scariest things that I think Trump has put out. He's saying for people who are naturalized U.S. citizens, if you undermine domestic tranquility, so can that just be speaking out against Donald Trump? That certainly seems to be their litmus test for what it means. I mean, they're talking about putting to death senators and congresspeople who were military service members who simply say, do not follow illegal orders. You do not have to follow illegal orders. And they say first he said it was punishable by death, was retweeting people saying, hang these people, President of the United States. And like we should not get desensitized to this. But what he is saying here is if your spouse is a naturalized citizen, if your parents are a naturalized citizens. But we don't like what somebody said, what one of their kids say. We can now use threat of denaturalization and deportation against them. This is beyond. Okay, they are talking about denatural. This is people who have gone through the whole process. They've become American citizens. Many of them maybe have lived here for 30, 40 years. They were Americans, their kids are Americans, their extended family are Americans. And you'd never know Seeing them on the street that they were naturalized citizens, suddenly Trump saying, no, we can use this against you. I just, I need people to pause on this and sit with it.

JVL (11:21)

Only reverse migration, which is a fancy way of saying ethnic cleansing, cleansing, I think, can fully cure this situation. Other than that, Happy Thanksgiving to all except those that hate, steal, murder and destroy everything that America stands for. You won't be here for long. This sounds like a guy who wants everything to burn. And I, I would like to read to you from Not a Never Trumper site from the Wall Street Journal. The Wall Street Journal's editorial today. Some will say this means the US should never admit such refugees. I'm sorry, why couldn't they just say Donald Trump? Instead of saying, some will say, why not say the president is saying this? But that's not, you know, they're being courageous, but not that courageous. But the alternative is abandoning allies who assist Americans in war to the retribution of our enemies. The fate of Afghans, men and women who worked with the US has often been brutal. You can be sure Americans will fight overseas again and our troops will need allies on the ground to assist. How many will assist us if they believe there will be no exit to them for them to. If the US Leaves with the enemy triumphant? The Wall Street Journal is saying this is a terrible idea. This is, this is very bad policy. This is. Think about the implications for American national security in the long run. You take, you know, 340 million people in the country, it's a big country, you're going to find crazy people and bad people and bad things will happen every day, especially when you have 400 million guns floating around. Nobody wants to say that. Maybe, maybe we shouldn't have so much access to guns. That's okay. Put that aside. But that there are, like, bigger national security concerns because they're, you know, people do take lessons, right? If, if the lesson is that we hang out all of our Afghan partners to drive because it turns out that one guy is a psychopath or is a terrorist or shouldn't have gotten through vetting or whatever the case may be, and we're going to make all of our policy decisions based on that, then how are we supposed to project power in the world, right? I mean, this, these things should be obvious and good on the Wall Street Journal editorial board for saying it.

Sarah Longwell (13:38)

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JVL (14:37)

But it is amazing that the President of the United States. And again, this really does read like it was from Stephen Miller. Not.

Sarah Longwell (14:46)

Yeah, the tweet does.

JVL (14:46)

Yeah, the, the tweet. Because it's, it's a tweet thread. Trump never talks at, like, that much length in his own voice. Reverse migration.

Sarah Longwell (14:56)

This, then. This is what Stephen Miller has been waiting for. I am, I am. I'm sad about the tragedy itself. I'm sad about this young woman. I'm sad about the state of our politics that have brought us here. And I, I. This idea of, like, I don't know how else to say this other than like, they've been waiting. They're waiting for an excuse. They've been desperate for an excuse, been.

JVL (15:22)

Trying to manufacture it. Right. They didn't get one in Chicago. They tried desperately in Chicago to, to get people to respond in ways that were unhelpful and would have served as provocations, and they didn't get it.

Sarah Longwell (15:34)

That's right. And so I don't know ultimately what comes of this. And I do hope more people like the Wall Street Journal push back forcefully on this escalation of where Trump wants to take it. But they have been waiting for something like this so that they can implement this idea of, like, reverse migration, expelling people more latitude with. And, you know, I still thank God for the courts, because denaturalizing people is actually quite hard. But the extent to which they may try to accelerate that process, I don't know. This, this is a. I just, I guess I want people to understand that this is a, it could be a turning point. Trump is going to try to make it a turning point by which they go much more aggressively to do this kind of thing. It will only be thwarted if more people like the Wall Street Journal say, don't do this. This is a mistake. And if Republicans push back on this idea. And look, I don't know if this is, this is a lot of online stuff. I've been trying to. Not on Thanksgiving, but, you know, you're just seeing so many more people say things like, like, Laura Loomer tweeted, that's it. I want a king. And you should. The replies are. And look, maybe they're all bots from other countries, but people seem, There is a. And I, I know from listening to voters that this is not true of the vast majority of people. But, like the extent to which the online right seems to be desperate for a dictator and desperate for this kind of action. There will be people who egg Trump on relentlessly on this front. And I've also seen a bunch of people tweeting things like, this guy, this, this, this Afghan refugee, he's going to get a lawyer and he's going to get, you know, a fair. A trial. And they're saying it with outrage. And I, I just want to be like, that's the point of America. The whole point is that, yes, we're not like Afghanistan. We're not like third world countries that would just shoot this guy. Like, he gets a trial. That is the, that's the whole point.

JVL (17:40)

Fair trial, jury of his beers. Yeah. And a competent defense and all that stuff.

Sarah Longwell (17:46)

Free speech means tolerating horrible things that we don't like, like American pluralism. It's what we do. We don't have a king.

JVL (17:53)

And this, I really think is a mask off when you, when you take the explicit call saying that reverse migration is the only thing that will handle this, that he wants to pursue denatural. And you put that next to the administration's ongoing attempt to do away with birthright citizenship. I don't know how to read that as anything other than saying we want this to be a country only for heritage Americans, blood and soil, which is a very European understanding of national nationhood. It is absolutely contra the American history, law and tradition. It's, it's incredibly radical. And I wonder if people see it, I wonder if people understand that that's really what is at the root of this. It isn't really like, oh, we gotta get rid of the trend agua Members. It's not like, oh, we have to control our borders. That's not what this is about. And it's never what it's been about. That's why those of us who are like, no, this they're talking about control our borders because it's like the most convenient club. They don't mean that. And now we see that they don't mean that.

Sarah Longwell (19:06)

Part of what I really loathe about Trump is like, when you show me a picture the young woman who was killed, I'm filled with anger at her death. I feel like I'm so sad for her family. I'm so sad that this happened. And so people have this anger. And Trump tries to direct that anger in the most anti American way, right? People are going to be angry about this, and it's because it's a devastating tragedy. But Trump wants to weaponize that and then direct it at a whole group of people. This is what he does to try to weaponize your grief and turn it into a directed hate at whole groups of people. It's what they did when Charlie Kirk was killed. It's why they still say it was the entire left. It is a, it is a dangerous manipulation of people's justified anger at tragedy. We can't give in to this kind of. He, and he wants to take, he wants to take your anger and your grief and weaponize it and turn America, use it to turn America into a place that it's not. Because America is built on a kind of forbearance, right, where we say, we don't just act out of our reach. We have a justice system. We have the rule of law. It's what makes us us. But this is what I'm seeing from Trump and the people who love him. They don't like us. They don't like America. They don't like, they don't like that we have a rule of law.

JVL (20:36)

Every time we get to this conversation, I bring up George W. Bush. And in the, in the days after 9, 11, 2000 people killed in an instant. Imagine what Donald Trump would have been saying, okay? And George W. Bush went the exact opposite way, right? He went and appeared with, with imams and Muslims. He went out of his way to say that these hijackers were not real Muslims and that Islam is religion of peace, that this was not a holy war. This had nothing to do with that, that they hate us for our freedoms, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And honestly, view, if you look at the FBI statistics, there was a fairly brief rise in like violence and, you know, attacks against Muslims in America. But it was pretty small. And I think Bush gets a lot of credit for getting out. He, he saw it, you know, and he knew that that was going to come and he knew that the job of the President to stop that sort of thing because he had a very American understanding of what America is. And just as a thought experiment, imagine Donald Trump's reaction did 911 and you know, he'd have us all tearing each other apart in the streets. And this is not what presidents are supposed to do. The world is full of tragedies. Bad things happen every single day. Hurricanes, school shootings, people getting shot in Walmart, car crash, like this is, it's a big cruel world, the universe is indifferent, etc. Etc. The job of the President is to hold us all together because that's when we're strong, is when we're together and when we're divided, that's when we're weak. As you can see from the way the rest of the world has approached us for the last 10 months, God help us. Sarah, it was good to see you.

Sarah Longwell (22:24)

It's good to see you. Just so you guys know, because I obviously am not in a studio of any kind, we jumped on, we did a lot of pre taping for last week to give you guys shows on, you know, today and this weekend and everything. And so we just, we didn't want to not have addressed that while we were all on holiday. Something happened that is a terrible tragedy happened that is probably going to have big implications and we wanted to try to talk it out.

JVL (23:00)

Moments like this, the only, the only advice I have is like, you gotta, gotta love each other, right? We gotta all love each other through this because it's tough. All right, well, happy Thanksgiving. Good luck, America. Bye friend.

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