Trump Just Discovered Liberia Speaks English (w/ Holly Berkley Fletcher)

Summary

Bulwark Takes: Trump Just Discovered Liberia Speaks English (w/ Holly Berkley Fletcher) – Detailed Summary

Release Date: July 11, 2025

Hosts and Guests:

• Ben Parker – Host from The Bulwark
• Holly Berkley Fletcher – Former CIA Africa Analyst

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1. Introduction and Context

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, Ben Parker is joined by Holly Berkley Fletcher, a former CIA Africa analyst, to discuss the recent meeting between former President Donald Trump and the President of Liberia. The episode delves into the implications of this meeting, analyzing Trump's Africa policy and its broader impact on the continent.

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2. Trump's Meeting with the Liberian President

Ben Parker initiates the discussion by referencing Trump's recent meeting with Liberia's President, highlighting Trump's comments on Liberia's English proficiency.

Donald Trump (00:53): "Well, thank you. In such good English. Such beautiful. Where did you learn to speak so beautifully? Were you educated? Where in Liberia? Yes, sir. Well, that's very interesting. It's beautiful English. I have people at this table who can't speak nearly as well."

Holly Berkley Fletcher expresses pride in this interaction, noting it as a significant moment for Americans raised in Africa.

Holly Berkley Fletcher (01:25): "It's such a proud moment for an American raised in Africa. It's just... it's very proud."

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3. Language and History of Liberia

Ben and Holly delve into the linguistic and historical background of Liberia.

Ben Parker (01:32): "Holly, what is the official language of Liberia?"

Holly Berkley Fletcher (01:41): "English. Oh, not even English, but really, I think pretty American English because the history of Liberia is that it was founded as a colony of sorts of the United States in the 19th century for freed slaves. Founded Liberia in the 1820s and dominated its political life until 1980 when the last Americo-Liberian president was violently overthrown. So they really controlled the country and the economy for all of those years."

Key Points:

• Official Language: English, predominantly American English.
• Historical Background: Founded by freed American slaves in the 1820s, significant American influence until the political upheaval in 1980.

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4. Irony in Naming and Historical Context

The conversation shifts to the naming of Liberia's capital, Monrovia, and its historical ironies.

Holly Berkley Fletcher (02:33): "Monrovia is named after James Monroe."

Ben Parker (02:42): "It's a bit ironic."

Holly Berkley Fletcher (02:59): "A lot of slaveholders supported the colonization of Africa by freed slaves because slaveholders did not want freed blacks in the United States. There was a lot of racism involved in the colonization movement in the 19th century."

Key Points:

• Capital Name: Monrovia, named after U.S. President James Monroe.
• Historical Irony: Named after a president associated with the Monroe Doctrine, despite Liberia not being in the Western Hemisphere.
• Colonization Movement: Driven partly by racially motivated desires to remove freed slaves from the United States.

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5. Analysis of Trump's Africa Policy

Holly provides a critical analysis of Trump's recent Africa policy, especially his meetings with five African leaders.

Holly Berkley Fletcher (03:39): "He met with five presidents: Liberia, Senegal, Mauritania, Guinea Bissau, and Gabon. It's a head-scratcher why these five. His Africa policy isn't very robust. It seems driven by his obsession with rare earth minerals and enhancing trade to make up for lost aid."

Key Points:

• Countries Involved: Liberia, Senegal, Mauritania, Guinea Bissau, and Gabon.
• Policy Drivers: Focus on rare earth minerals (e.g., manganese, rubber, timber) and migration issues.
• Contradictions: Imposing tariffs while withholding the African Growth and Opportunity Act renewal, undermining trade benefits for African economies.

Holly Berkley Fletcher (06:13): "The whole thing sounds very throwback to the 19th century. Tariffs and taking minerals from African countries."

Ben Parker sarcastically remarks on the apparent thoughtfulness of Trump's approach.

Ben Parker (06:13): "It's so nice that we have such careful people thinking deeply about how we're going to interact with the world and not just stereotyping them based on how they look or sound."

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6. English Proficiency in Africa Compared to Trump

Holly contrasts the high English proficiency in many African countries with Trump's limited language skills.

Holly Berkley Fletcher (06:29): "I've traveled widely and rarely find someone who doesn't speak English. Most Kenyans, many South Africans speak excellent English, better than Donald Trump."

Ben Parker (07:10): "Better English than him and a lot of his cabinet secretaries."

Holly Berkley Fletcher (07:23): "Let me just read my favorite quote from the meeting today... 'There's a lot of anger on your continent. We've been able to solve a lot of it.'"

Key Points:

• High English Proficiency: In many African nations, surpassing Trump's own skills.
• Trump's Language Skills: Criticized as inferior compared to African counterparts and his own administration members.

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7. Critique of Trump's Diplomatic Claims

Holly highlights and critiques Trump's exaggerated claims regarding his diplomatic achievements in Africa.

Holly Berkley Fletcher (07:27): "He congratulated Trump on negotiating the DRC-Rwanda peace deal. I didn't realize he had solved so much of the anger on the continent."

Ben Parker (08:10): "When he met Cyril Ramaphosa, he didn't know Africa was a continent. Now he's showing he's learning, albeit slowly."

Holly Berkley Fletcher (08:26): "Growth mindset."

Key Points:

• Exaggerated Claims: Overstating involvement and achievements in resolving African conflicts.
• Lack of Understanding: Previously mistaking Africa for a single country, indicating a superficial engagement with the continent.

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8. Personal Anecdotes and Final Remarks

Holly shares a humorous note about Liberia's president to underline the similarities between Trump and other world leaders.

Holly Berkley Fletcher (08:34): "President of Liberia, Joseph Boa Kai, was elected at 79, making him Liberia's oldest president, similar to Trump. His nickname in Liberia? 'Sleepy Joe.'"

Ben Parker (09:04): "That's the perfect place to end. Making fun of all the stupidity is the only way we can get through it."

Key Points:

• Comparison: Liberian President's nickname mirrors the derogatory nickname often used for Trump, highlighting age and perhaps perceived ineptitude.
• Humor as Coping Mechanism: Using satire and humor to address and critique political shortcomings.

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9. Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Donald Trump (00:53): "Well, thank you. In such good English. Such beautiful. Where did you learn to speak so beautifully? Were you educated? Where in Liberia? Yes, sir. Well, that's very interesting. It's beautiful English. I have people at this table who can't speak nearly as well."

• Holly Berkley Fletcher (07:27): "He said there's a lot of anger on your continent. We've been able to solve a lot of it."

• Holly Berkley Fletcher (09:01): "Joseph Boa Kai's nickname is Sleepy Joe."

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10. Conclusion

The episode offers a critical examination of Donald Trump's interactions with African leaders, particularly focusing on his meeting with Liberia's president. Through insightful analysis and expert commentary, Holly Berkley Fletcher underscores the inconsistencies and shortcomings in Trump's Africa policy, juxtaposing them against the competence and historical context of African nations. The discussion is laced with humor and sharp critique, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the geopolitical nuances at play.

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Additional Resources:

• Holly's Substack: Zebra Without Stripes – Subscribe Here
• The Bulwark: www.thebulwark.com – Become a Bulwark Plus member for exclusive content.

Transcript

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Ben Parker]

Hi everybody, I'm Ben Parker from the Bulwark, joined by our friend and former CIA Africa analyst Holly Berkeley Fletcher, who is joining us from. Where are you again, Holly?

[Holly Berkeley Fletcher]

I am in Naivasha, Kenya. Beautiful Naivasha, Kenya. It's in the Rift Valley. It's about two hours outside Nairobi. One hour to two hours depending on traffic. It's a beautiful lake. It's beautiful.

[Ben Parker]

It sounds great. And you are joining us because yesterday Donald Trump, President of the United States, had a meeting with the President of Liberia and this happened.

[Donald Trump]

Well, thank you. In such good English. Such beautiful. Where did you learn to speak so beautifully? Were you educated? Where in Liberia? Yes, sir. Well, that's very interesting. It's beautiful English. I have people at this table can't speak nearly as well.

[Holly Berkeley Fletcher]

It's so. It's such a proud moment for an American raised in Africa. It's just. It's very proud.

[Ben Parker]

Yeah, isn't it, Isn't it great? Okay, so first of all, Holly, what is the official language of Liberia?

[Holly Berkeley Fletcher]

English. Oh, not even English, but really, I think pretty American English because they. The history of Liberia is that it was founded as a colony of sorts of the United states in the 19th century for freed slaves. Founded Liberia in the 1820s and. And dominated its political life until 1980 when the last Americo Liberian president was violently overthrown. So they really controlled the country and the economy for. For all of those years. So. Yes.

[Ben Parker]

Yeah, for well over a century. Hence the name Liberia. As in Liberty Land. Right.

[Holly Berkeley Fletcher]

Yeah. And Monrovia is who, Ben, would that be James.

[Ben Parker]

Ironic.

[Holly Berkeley Fletcher]

Monroe.

[Ben Parker]

Right, James Monroe.

[Holly Berkeley Fletcher]

It is because it's. The Monroe Doctrine was about the Western hemisphere and Liberia is not in that hemisphere. Hemisphere. So it's a bit ironic.

[Donald Trump]

Yeah.

[Ben Parker]

It still seems ironic to name the capital of a country settled by freed slaves after a slaveholder. But whatever, I'm sure it's fine.

[Holly Berkeley Fletcher]

Well, but you know, Ben, sorry to get nerdy on You. But a lot of slaveholders supported the colonization of Africa by freed slaves because slaveholders did not want freed blacks in the United States. There was a lot of racism that was involved in the colonization movement in the 19th century. So it's actually not so ironic on that front. I was in the Monroe Doctrine.

[Ben Parker]

That's a great point. You also, before we started recording, had a great point about spit a bit of a pattern with Trump. This isn't the only meeting he's had recently with an African leader. So why don't you, why don't you tell the people about that and how this fits to the broader pattern?

[Holly Berkeley Fletcher]

Well, first of all, this meeting was not just with the president of Liberia. He met with. It was five presidents, actually. Liberia, Senegal, Mauritania, Guinea Bissau and Gabon. And it's a little bit of a head scratcher. Why these five. His, his Africa policy, if you can even call it that, is not very robust, first of all, but also a little bit of a. It's hard to sort of determine. These five countries are by no means like the powerhouses of Africa. So from what folks can tell, this meeting was probably driven by his policy seems to be not just in Africa, but in elsewhere as well, Ukraine being one example. He was really obsessed with these rare earth minerals and getting minerals. And these countries, some of them have some of these. Is it raw earth or rare earth? I can't even remember. Rare earth? Yeah, like manganese and things like that. And other sort of like Liberia actually, you know, rubber has a big rubber industry, timber. Some of the other countries are related to migration issues, which of course, he's also obsessed with Mauritania. There's a big outflow of migrants out of Mauritania. So that's kind of what people can decipher as in terms of why he's pursuing this. So his, his policy goal, if you again, if you can even call it a policy, seems to be to enhance trade to make up for all the lost aid. And it even rhymes, which is very cool. You want, you know, trade instead of aid, so. But he's really wanting. But it doesn't make any sense. I see your confusion. It doesn't make any sense because at the same time, he's putting tariffs on these countries and he's yet to renew the African Growth and Opportunity act, which has been a huge boon to many African economies and has opened up trade to the US Markets for them. And that's still in, in limbo. Nobody knows what he's going to do. So it's not really trade per se. It's basically, it's basically just trying to get these minerals. He's, I guess, I mean it. To me, the whole thing sounds very throwback to like 19th century. You've got your tariffs and then you're going to go take some minerals from some countries from Africa.

[Ben Parker]

Yeah, yeah.

[Holly Berkeley Fletcher]

It sounds very, like, retro.

[Ben Parker]

Well, that's great. It's so nice that we have such people, such careful people thinking deeply about how we're going to interact with the world and not just stereotyping them based on, you know, how they look or sound.

[Holly Berkeley Fletcher]

You know, I've traveled really widely on the continent and first of all, I've rarely been in a place or in a situation where I can't find someone that doesn't speak English. The exception might be rural Tanzania, which was, I was there to learn Swahili. So I was kind of glad not to find some as many people who spoke English. But frankly, you know, most Africans and not even, not even terribly well educated, not depending on the country. Most Kenyans, I should say, which is the end. South Africans, the, some of the countries I know the best, they speak excellent English and I would say better than Donald Trump, which is a low bar, but nonetheless.

[Ben Parker]

Yeah, not surprising that they speak better English than he does. Better English than a lot of his cabinet secretaries. But, you know, it's because basically he doesn't know anything about the world and doesn't want to learn anything about the world because he doesn't care.

[Holly Berkeley Fletcher]

Let me just read you my favorite quote from the meeting today. Can I do that?

[Ben Parker]

Oh, please. Oh, please.

[Holly Berkeley Fletcher]

He said at one point they were talking about, they were congratulating him on his negotiation of the DRC Rwanda peace deal. Okay. Which again, we can do another whole segment on that another time. And he said, I quote, there's a lot of anger on your continent. We've been able to solve a lot of it. I, you know, I, I, I didn't realize he had solved so much of the anger on the continent. I don't know that it's necessarily anger, but that's the problem. He says he's going to work on Sudan next, which I'm super excited to see. What's going to do.

[Ben Parker]

Listen, I got to admit, I'm proud of him because when we did one of these videos, when he met with Cyril Ramaphosa, he didn't know that Africa was a continent. He thought it was a country. So now he's showing off that he knows the now. Yeah, but look, this is, oh, you.

[Holly Berkeley Fletcher]

Know, That's a really good point. That's a very good point.

[Ben Parker]

This is what we've got now.

[Holly Berkeley Fletcher]

So that's.

[Ben Parker]

He's growing, you know, He's. He's nearly 80, and he's finally learning the difference between a country and a continent. Isn't it great?

[Holly Berkeley Fletcher]

Growth mindset. Oh, one last little fun detail for you. Okay, so the president of Liberia, Joseph Boa Kai, was elected at the age of 79, making him Liberia's oldest president, similar to our friend, our current president, Donald Trump. And guess what his nickname is in Liberia. Ben, you're not going to guess?

[Ben Parker]

Old Joe?

[Holly Berkeley Fletcher]

No, it's Sleepy Joe.

[Ben Parker]

Okay, that is perfect. That is the perfect place to end. Holly, thank you so much for joining me to make fun of all the stupidity. It's the only way we can get through it.

[Holly Berkeley Fletcher]

It.

[Ben Parker]

Hey, Holly has a substack. It is zebra without stripes. Make sure to go check that out. Subscribe. It's wonderful. Also, subscribe to the Bulwark. Subscribe to our YouTube. Like the video? Leave a comment. And if you really like what we're doing and you want more of it, come to the bulwark.com Become a Bulwark plus member. Join our community. Holly's there. It's a great fun time. Holly, thanks so much for joining me.

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