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- [00:00]
A
When you think about businesses that are selling through the roof, Allbirds or Skims, sure you think about a great product, a cool brand and brilliant marketing. But an often overlooked secret is actually the businesses behind the business making, selling and for the shoppers buying simple. For millions of businesses, that business is Shopify. Nobody does selling better than Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet. And the not so secret secret with shop pay that boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going. So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling on the web, in your store, in their feed and everywhere in between. Businesses that sell more sell on Shopify, upgrade your business and get the same checkout skims uses. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com audioboom all lowercase go to shopify.com audioboom to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com audioboom hey everybody, it's me, Sam.
- [01:11]
B
Stein, managing editor of the Bulwark. I'm here in Austin for the Trip Fest, but I felt the need to jump on the youtubes with my bud Andrew Egger, even though I have video very, very bad Internet wi fi. So I beg your forgiveness for this doing this because the House apparently now has 218 votes for a discharge petition to release the Epstein files that af that came after Representative Koval was finally seated by Speaker Mike Johnson, put her name on the petition and then gave a floor speech in which she said the following about why she was signing the petition.
- [01:44]
C
Just this morning, House Democrats released more emails showing that Trump knew more about Epstein's abuses than he previously acknowledged. It's past time for Congress to restore its role as a check and balance on this administration and fight for we the American people. We need to fight for our immigrant communities and veterans. We need to stand up for our public schools, children and educators. We need to respect tribal sovereignty in our environment. We need to stand up for LGBTQ rights because that's what the American people expect us to do. Fight for them. That is why I will sign the discharge petition right now to release the Epstein files.
- [02:39]
B
So Andrew, let's talk a little bit about the process here because discharge petition 218 votes. House will have to vote on this and a bunch of Republicans who are not on the discharge petition have said they're going to vote for it anyway. At that point, it goes to the Senate and John Thune, the majority Leader has to take it up. Don't know if they have 60 votes there. And even then Donald Trump could just veto it, sit on it, do whatever. So people are very excited, rightfully so, about the 218 votes. But should it come with a dollop of caution? I suppose, yeah, sure.
- [03:09]
D
I mean, the, the, the bottom line is that this is of course, not like the main thing. It's not like, you know, Representative Grijalva is in the House now and boom, the, the White House is going to be forced to release all these Epstein files. It's just one more procedural step in that direction. And it is also one more kind of significant moment in terms of actually sort of holding Republicans to account on this, because this has been a big fault line for Republicans. Their base has demanded a full accounting for, you know, scandal forever for a long, long time. But Donald Trump has spent this whole year trying to turn the page on the story, trying to say, everybody's past this. It's super old news, yada, yada, yada. He is, he's sort of beside himself that any Republicans are signing on to this effort at all.
- [03:58]
B
And so it's not just turning the page. He spent today turning the screws on Republicans. Lauren Boebert was called into talk with bunch of DOJ officials. She's on the discharge petition. I've been shocked at how aggressively and openly they are pushing Republicans not to do this.
- [04:14]
D
Yeah, and that's been a shift, too. I mean, like, very early on, the kind of line from Trump's allies was, look, we're going to put out all the Epstein stuff, all the Epstein stuff that's fit to print. You're going to get it, all of that. But as these revelations have continued to come out and just more and more like insane bad news for Trump and like, just stuff. I mean, like, it's crazy. It's crazy, the stuff we did. I did a video with Sarah this morning on, on some stuff that we got from the House Oversight Committee just today about emails between Epstein and certain of his associates, you know, suggesting that Trump is implicated in some of this stuff personally. So, like, as all of these things have continued to pour out with the birthday letter and all of these things, they really have dropped the fig leaf more and more. And I think that what, what you're seeing right now, I mean, it's just been naked from the White House today. The. They're hauling in individual Republican Congress members and saying, look, take your name off this petition before it goes through. It doesn't look like they're succeeding. I mean, there's not a lot of Republicans on there right now. It's just four, I believe. But it doesn't seem like they've managed to, you know, break any of them. And it looks like this is actually going to go to a full vote of the House and every single Republican is going to need to side either with, you know, Epstein transparency or with Donald Trump. I mean it's, it's, it's remarkable. Even if we don't ever get the full, you know, the full release of the files that this petition demands, it is remarkable that they have managed to get to this point despite months and months of, of bullying from Donald Trump and months and months of stonewalling from Speaker Mike Johnson.
- [05:41]
B
Yeah, and some of these Republicans who are not signing the discharge petition, which again forces a vote, have indicated, as I noted, that they would vote for a bill to release the files. And I mean, look, take it for what it's worth. Big grain of salt, pile of salt because the, you know, who knows where they come down when the actual vote happens. But you had a couple very conserved Republicans, Warren Davidson and Eli Crane, telling man Raja at CNN that they plan to vote for a bill to release the files if it comes. And, and they seem like almost peaked at what was going on here. Davidson saying that he wants Pam Bondi to go before the House Judiciary Committee to what he said, do some explaining. So I, you know, maybe there's a backlash brewing here with the administration. It sort of becomes a little bit harder to hold the line when you get some of these revelations and I just want to go through some of them. I'm going to offer my like most generous interpretation to Trump on this stuff. And you can tell me I'm crazy. The most generous interpretation to Trump is that these files show that potentially Epstein thought that Trump was working with authorities to get Jeffrey Epstein. The dog that didn't bark could be like, oh, Donald Trump is not being mentioned in any of these contemporaneous news accounts or by any of these leading investigators because he's cooperating with them. Right. Like that might be Epstein's theory of the case. That's the most generous interpretation to Trump. And even in that generous interpretation, Epstein has Trump with, you know, emailing by Trump being fully aware of the younger girls being fully participant in his lifestyle or at least a, I shouldn't say participant, at least someone who knew about the lifestyle. There's some emails that have been surfaced of Epstein setting up Trump with a 20 year old girlfriend. There's one Email where he said Trump knew of it and that he would come to my house many times during the period. Another email, I'm just going through some of the files that we dug up. Have them ask my houseman about Donald Trump almost walking through the door, leaving his nose print on the glass as young women were swimming in the pool. And he was so focused, he walked straight into the door. This is like an email. This is like primary documentation. The president and the guy saying, yeah, he was so obsessed with these young women that he almost hit his face into the glass. I'm like, it's just crazy stuff. And then Howard Lutnick, who was a neighbor of Epstein, Epstein emails about him. Epstein, one point says, you see, I know how dirty Donald Trump is. I mean, this is like a treasure trove of unreal stuff that even in the most generous interpretation is incredible. I mean, objectively crazy and bad. It's just we're in, like, very much uncharted waters here. Bulwark Takes is sponsored by Calm. The pressure to make the most of the final months of the year is quite real. If you woke up today thinking of all the things you should be doing, well, please stop shoulding on yourself. You're doing the best you can when the shoulds pile up. Calm is a tool that I reach for to release stress and to find space to breathe, even on the busiest days, even on those days when Tim Miller is driving me absolutely crazy. Calm is the number one app for sleep and meditation, and it's here to help you feel better. If you're feeling like you could use some support navigating life's ups and downs, get the relief you need with Calm sessions. Calm app puts the tools you need right in your pocket. So stress and anxiety relief is always within reach. Calm has over 2 million 5 star reviews and it can help you stress less, it can help you sleep more, and it can help you live mindfully. Calm your mind, change your life. Calm has an exclusive offer just for listeners of our show. Get 40% off a comm premium subscription at com.com bulwarktakes look, that's an amazing value. 40% off. Go to comm.com bulwarktakes for 40% off. Unlimited access to comms entire library. That's C-A-L-M.com/Bulwark takes and tell calm. You heard about them from me, the calmest guy on the Internet.
- [09:51]
D
Absolutely. Absolutely. Very much uncharted waters. And I think one, one thing that I keep coming back to is how untenable of a position it all puts Mike Johnson in. Because we all know what Donald Trump is gonna do, right? Donald Trump is gonna stonewall. Donald Trump is gonna try to change the subject. He's gonna say it's all a witch hunt. He's gonna say he's just gonna lie, you know, like this, this is just how he approaches every story, whether he's, whether he's particularly guilty or not. And there's a lot of reason to believe that there are particular reasons why he's doing that. Mike Johnson, you know, you are trying to balance both sides of this thing. You're trying to balance the fact that ultimately you, you have to stay loyal to Trump in a lot of ways, because that is what Trump is demanding of you, and that's what it means to be in the Republican Party. But you're also balancing that against these demands from the base, which are not going away. I mean, that's what you, that's, you know, you just mentioned some of these. Well, I mean, among some of the influencers. Sure. But like, I mean, there is today.
- [10:43]
B
It has been pretty quiet out there today online from the mat, from the maga. Right. Let's be real.
- [10:47]
D
Yeah. I mean, but, but, but I mean, it's been quiet. They've been quite. Yes, but again, you're talking about influencers. You're talking about like people who are like, doing, who are like, kind of professionally obliged. Whereas, like, this has been kind of a ground up thing for a lot of these people. And I think a lot of these people. So the thing that Mike Johnson has had to do, you know, for months now is, is try to sort of like offer this substitute process instead of this vote to release all of the files. He wants this, this of them through the House Oversight Committee where they can kind of like, you know, have more control over what comes out and what doesn't. And what he has said, the Casey has made is that this, they want to do it this way because this is actually what's more fair and more respectful to Epstein's victims. Right. I mean, that's, that's the line. Not, not that they're like keeping back stuff that Trump doesn't want out, but that, but that this is, you know, the best way to protect the identity of various other victims and things like that. And obviously he has kind of gotten away with making that case. A lot of his members have found that compelling and have said they're going to stick with that. But now that you have the ditch to charge petition, you know, fully stocked now that this vote is coming to the floor. And again, as this stuff just keeps coming out, just the more and more insane stuff about Trump himself personally and Trump's own more and more bare knuckle tactics about trying to like bully his own members into line on this stuff, I just think it's not gonna be a tenable place for Johnson to be. And I think you are seeing like the seeds of an act, possible floor revolt on this stuff. I mean, like, it's, it's just crazy.
- [12:17]
B
So let's say, let's say you know it's going to pass, which at this point, you know it's going to pass in the House. Like, what are the incentives if you're a Republican to take a vote against releasing the files? I mean, you have to really fear the President's wrath or something. Right? Like, and I just don't think that that's that compelling, which is why I can imagine a fair number of Republicans would vote for this once it does get to the floor. And look, I mean, part of the issue here is that both the, the intimidation campaign, which is happening right out in the open, doesn't, it doesn't work for Trump because it makes him just look guilty. Right. The more he's turning the screws on Lauren Boebert, the more you just ask, well, why are you so intent on keeping this stuff private? Right? Like, we know that you're in these files. It's very evident now. Right, like why you, like what, what has got your goat here? And then of course, the other thing is that there's just incredible inconsistency if they were around and say, no, we don't want to see this stuff. I mean, we're unearthed this JD Vance tweet from 2021 where he literally like admonishes reporters for not caring enough about this. I mean, he writes, if you're a journalist and you're not asking questions about this case, you should be ashamed of yourself. What purpose do you even serve? I'm sure there's a middle class teenager somewhere who you could, who could use some harassing right now, but maybe try to do your job once in a while. Classic JD Tone right there. But like, you know, if you have, if you're on the record with that type of stuff, it becomes a little bit hard to then turn around and say, oh, this is just a distraction by journalists. Had to get Donald Trump. Trump, right?
- [13:43]
D
Yeah, 100%. And can we talk for just a second about how this entire thing is like 100% an own goal on the part of the administration, like it is possible, it is possible we would have had this insane months long scandal if like, if it weren't for the precipitating event of their big theatrical rollout of the Epstein files, where they summoned and all those people to the White House and they traipsed them out with those binders in front of the cameras. Like maybe we still would have done that, but that actually really was a precipitating event in reigniting this scandal as far as this White House is concerned. Because a whole bunch of people who have wanted these files out for years looked at that and they said, now hold on, this is ridiculous. This is like a, this is like a complete kabuki theater, like nonsense. Like you really expect us to believe that this is, this is what you have in terms of Jeffrey Epstein. And again, maybe, maybe it's still, it still trickles out. But that really did precipitate this, in this entire months long process of rake stepping on the part of the administration that has just kept this whipped into a frenzy ever since. I mean, it's just, it's bizarre. It's bizarre. I mean, how, how long, when was that? Was that like March or April? That was early, I don't have the.
- [14:53]
B
Date from me, it was early in the administration and it was total self owned, right? Like there was no reason to do it. And the reporting on it was that they just wanted to give him something. They kind of rushed it out and then of course they turned around like, wait a second, all this stuff is already public. But there's like a lot of, you know, there's a lot of like inflection points I suppose in this, right? Like obviously none of this would have mattered if they hadn't spent the past four years prior to Trump winning back office saying there's a big cabal happening here. Right? Like, I mean they, they, they up the ante for this stuff. And then of course, which by the.
- [15:22]
D
Way, by the way, sidebar on that, that has been the other weird thing about these, about these, these, you know, these massive tranches of, of emails that have just been released today. Not just these ones about Trump, but like all of these people like random New York Times report on like sort of like buddy, buddy terms with Epstein. Michael Wolf is like out there helping him do his PR stuff. I mean, it's like, it's crazy how well connected he was.
- [15:46]
B
Yeah, he was talking with like Russian officials like saying, hey, get Lavrov in touch with me so that I can like let him know how to work Trump. But it's like this guy, clearly, you know, I didn't, maybe I didn't appreciate just how interconnected he was with the global elite, but he definitely was. I mean, go look at the top barrack email. I mean, this guy's not the ambassador to Turkey, right? So it's like he ran Trump's transition. There's like weird shit happening all over the place in a way that I didn't appreciate. I was, I was going to say in, in terms of the sort of like inflection point, sliding doors moments, though. I mean, the other one that now is more recent is of course, and Tim, our colleague Tim Miller brought this up, is Democrats deciding to reopen the government. Right. So like, let's say in theory they hadn't decided to open the government. We would still be in a shutdown. Snap benefits would not be going out, obviously. They'd still be fighting over health care. And there maybe could have been some progress on getting those Obamacare subsidies extended, but you wouldn't have Grahava seated and you wouldn't had the production of these documents and you wouldn't have the discharge petition, at least at this point. Maybe it would have happened down the road, although there's some timing issues with it. But look, this is, this is the case that people who were for settling the shutdown were making is that other business does need to go on and that business is important and maybe it's not like the biggest win for Republicans if you move on to the next order of business. So food for thought. I suppose. You're not going to take the bait because you were anti Cave.
- [17:14]
D
I was anti cave in a lot of ways. I don't, I mean, I just don't know. I don't know behind the scenes, like, like how much of the timing of these things was like, sort of coincidental. I don't know. Because in theory, no, because House Oversight actually did shut down its Epstein stuff during the shutdown, Right. So this, this all completely on ice until maybe there's some, I don't know, Democratic staffers.
- [17:35]
B
Imagine having this in your back pocket and through the shots and be like, oh my God, oh my God, get this thing over with. I want to release this stuff.
- [17:42]
D
The timing is either really unfortunate for Trump or it is actually deliberate on the part of the Democratic Democrats on the Oversight Committee to put this out on the morning of the Grijalva swearing in. Right. To just, just tee it all.
- [17:55]
B
I think it's deliberate, but it's deliberate, obviously, but it was going to happen no matter what. It's just a matter of and then it did. There's like a weird historical parallel here, but I'm not going to get into it with like the 2013 shutdown how almost we're following almost the exact same pattern where everyone thought Republicans had blown it. There's a bunch of infighting and like two days later healthcare.gov is exploding and they're like, oh my God, we have this scandal and tables turn very quickly. Anyways, that's what you did, get into.
- [18:20]
D
It and you did a great job doing that.
- [18:22]
B
Very, very brief. All right, buddy, thank you to the people who set up the WI fi in this hotel. Thank you. It looks like I managed to make it through the recording intact. We'll see if it uploads. We'll be following this storyline. Obviously when they vote, we'll come back, we'll do this all over again. There's so much more to unearth, especially from the files themselves, which are incredibly juicy and scandalous. Andrew Take care, buddy.
- [18:45]
A
When you think about businesses that are selling through the roof, Allbirds or Skims, sure you think about a great product, a cool brand and brilliant marketing. But an often overlooked secret is actually the businesses behind the business making selling and for the shoppers, buying. Simple. For millions of businesses, that business is Shopify. Nobody does selling better than Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet. And the not so secret secret with shop pay that boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going. So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling on the web, in your store, in their feed and everywhere in between. Businesses that sell more sell on Shopify, upgrade your business and get the same checkout Skims uses. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com audioboom all lowercase go to shopify.com audioboom to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com audioboom.