Trump Put His Own Lawyers in Charge of His DOJ Payout

Summary

Bulwark Takes — Episode Summary

Episode Title: Trump Put His Own Lawyers in Charge of His DOJ Payout
Date: October 22, 2025
Hosts: Sam Stein (D), Sarah Longwell (C)
Main Theme:
An explosive New York Times story reveals that Donald Trump, now president again, is seeking a $230 million taxpayer-funded payout from the Justice Department for cases investigated during the Biden administration — and has installed his own former defense attorneys in DOJ leadership to oversee the settlement process. The episode breaks down the unprecedented nature of this potential grift, its ethical implications, and places it in the broader context of Trump-era corruption.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The $230 Million Payout Scheme

• [01:30] Sam Stein summarizes the main story: Trump has filed for a DOJ settlement for "damages" during investigations into him while Biden was president. Now, with Trump back in office, he has positioned his own former defense attorneys atop the DOJ, the very department tasked with evaluating his claim.
  • "Trump essentially went through the processes where you can more or less countersue the Justice Department for the investigations they launched into him during the Biden years. And he wanted a settlement for damages of $230 million. And now that he's president, he's installed the very people at the Justice Department who would have to sign off on the settlement." — Sam Stein [01:30]
  • The hosts express shock and discuss the implications for government ethics and corruption.

2. Trump’s Personal Lawyers Run DOJ

• [02:20] Sarah Longwell highlights a crucial point: these newly installed DOJ officials are Trump's own defense attorneys from these very cases.
  • "The people that he installed in the Justice Department were his defense attorneys. He was being sued." — Sarah Longwell [02:20]

3. Comparison to Hunter Biden Scandals and Republican Double Standards

• [03:30] Sarah draws a sharp contrast between the relentless Republican focus on Hunter Biden's misdeeds and the sheer scale of Trump’s scandals.
  • "Republicans rode that one, the laptop, for just years, right? And that pales in comparison to any single scandal that Donald Trump has been involved in." — Sarah Longwell [03:30]
  • She notes the media and political asymmetry: a single Biden scandal persists for years, whereas each new Trump scandal dwarfs the previous, yet barely lingers.

4. Ethics Experts and Trump’s “Suing Himself” Remarks

• [06:36] Sam quotes law professor Bennett Gershman for context:
  • "What a travesty. The ethical conflict is just so basic and fundamental. You don't need a law professor to explain it." — Sam Stein quoting Gershman [06:36]
• [07:21] Trump’s characteristic candor inadvertently exposes the scheme. Sam recounts Trump’s own words:
  • "When I Became president. I said, I'm sort of suing myself. I don't know. How do you settle that lawsuit? I'll say, give me X dollars. And I don't know what to do with the lawsuit. It sort of looks bad. I'm suing myself. Right?" — Donald Trump, paraphrased by Sam Stein [07:21]
  • The group points out how Trump feigns confusion while transparently manipulating the system.

5. Public Misconceptions and the “Magnanimous” Trump Myth

• [07:58] Sarah notes how focus group voters repeatedly buy the myth that Trump is magnanimous with his money — giving up his salary, funding his own legal or campaign expenses, etc.
  • "There is a real sense that Trump is very magnanimous about his money... Everyone believes that he's cutting the check for $250 million." — Sarah Longwell [08:32]
• The reality: much of this spending, like the ballroom renovations, is paid for by anonymous donors or possibly taxpayers.

6. Layers of Corruption and Scandal Fatigue

• [08:42] The hosts catalogue the “tidal wave” of Trump scandals:
  • Ballrooms funded by donors/foreign governments,
  • Business “quid pro quo” for regulatory favors,
  • Possible cover-ups (Epstein files),
  • Pardoning of January 6th perpetrators,
  • Taking personal restitution from the government.
• [09:55] Sarah sums up the dynamic:
  • "I don't know how you explain to the American people like, this guy is ripping you off every day. He's enriching himself with crypto schemes and he's enriching himself from other countries, his hotels, everything is one big scam." — Sarah Longwell [09:55]
• Despite the deluge, many Americans no longer register or comprehend the cumulative damage.

7. Enumerating Trump’s Recent Government Expenditures

• [10:34] Sam and Sarah run through a rapid-fire “ledger” of questionable recent expenditures:
  • $20 billion to Argentina in currency exchanges,
  • $173 million for a Trump official’s two private jets,
  • $250 million ballroom,
  • $230 million for Trump’s DOJ settlement.
• All against a backdrop of government cuts to humanitarian programs:
  • "We shouldn't help kids who are dying of AIDS in Africa or feeding starving children. We gotta... pay Trump for the mental anguish of trying to slow walk the prosecutions for the crimes he definitely committed." — Sarah Longwell [11:10]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Ethical Absurdity:
  • "The ethical conflict is just so basic and fundamental. You don't need a law professor to explain it." — Bennett Gershman via Sam Stein [06:36]
• On Trump Parodying His Own Grift:
  • "I'm sort of suing myself. I don't know. How do you settle that lawsuit? I'll say, give me X dollars." — Donald Trump, quoted/paraphrased [07:21]
• On Corruption Fatigue:
  • "Every single one of these is worse on its own than any scandal that plagued the Biden administration. But Donald Trump is able to, again, like, the lawsuits accrue so many scandals..." — Sarah Longwell [09:22]
• On Voter Misconceptions:
  • "Everyone believes that he's cutting the check for $250 million. He is absolutely not." — Sarah Longwell [08:32]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Story Setup and Context: [01:00-01:30]
• Outline of Payout Scheme: [01:30-02:34]
• Trump’s Lawyers Running DOJ: [02:20]
• Scandal Comparisons (Hunter Biden): [03:30-04:20]
• Ethics Expert Reaction and Trump's Own Remark: [06:36-07:21]
• Voter Perceptions and Donor Funding: [07:58-08:42]
• Highlight Reel of Scandals: [08:42-10:34]
• Recent Government Expenditures Rundown: [10:34-11:10]
• Closing Thoughts: [11:10-11:37]

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Tone and Takeaways

The conversation is sharply critical, energetic, and often incredulous at the brazenness of the reported scheme. The hosts blend facts, expert commentary, humor, and venting at repeated ethical lapses, highlighting how “scandal fatigue” threatens public accountability. Memorable lines and a rapid-fire takedown make the episode vital listening for anyone tracking the state of American democracy and government integrity.

Bottom Line:
Trump’s alleged manipulation of the Justice Department for personal financial gain—by installing his own former lawyers to approve a taxpayer-funded windfall—represents, as the hosts say, possibly the most brazen grift yet in a presidency defined by scandal, enabled by public misconceptions and a broken system of accountability.

Transcript

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[D]

Hey, everyone, it's me, Sam Stein, managing editor of the book. And before we get started with our fearless publisher, Sarah Longwell, let me just make the point that you should subscribe to this feed. It's a great feed and be a subscriber to our subsect too, because you get some great newsletters. Sarah's built a real empire. You can check out her podcast interview with Dylan Byers. It's great. Awesome. But for now, we're going to be discussing what I would argue is maybe the most grifty thing potentially of the Trump.

[C]

I mean, it's a lot of competition.

[D]

It's up there.

[C]

It's up there.

[D]

It's up there. Okay, so this is what happened. There's a story broke from the Times, New York Times this afternoon. The headline says it all. Trump said to demand justice department pay him $230 million for past cases. The backstory is that Trump essentially went through the processes where you can more or less countersue the Justice Department for the investigations they launched into him during the Biden years. And he wanted a settlement for damages of $230 million. And now that he's president, he's installed the very people at the Justice Department who would have to sign off on the settlement. And they might do it. We might be cutting this guy $230 million check in taxpayer funds. And boy, I mean, it's incredible. My mind is blown by this one.

[C]

One, one just quick little addition to this is the people that he installed in the Justice Department were his defense attorneys. He was being sued.

[D]

Do they get a cut? That's a good point.

[C]

I don't know. But the idea that the people who represented him when he was not the president, who they then installed in the Justice Department, or are the ones who were going to make the decision about whether or not he gets access to taxpayer funds to pay him for his grievance over the fact that he didn't return documents that he was told by the government at the time to return, that he tried to overthrow a free and fair election. Not only is he pardoned the January 6th people who attacked the Capitol and then said the one of the people who ended up unfortunately being shot because she was storming the Capitol, not only did they give her a hero's burial, now he gets restitution from the lawsuits. It is, and when I, when I, when you said, you know, this is up there with the corruption, it is, but it is sort of a piece of all of the corruption. You know, it's funny, I always talk about this, the ability of one scandal, right? Republicans got their hands on the Hunter Biden scandal, and Hunter Biden should not have been charging exorbitant prices for his crappy paintings. And he should not have been using his father's name to try to get, you know, sort of no show jobs. Like, I don't think he was a very good individual and caused his dad a lot of scandal and problems. The Republicans rode that one, the laptop, for just years, right? And that pales in comparison to any single scandal that Donald Trump has been involved in. And there are so many. Go ahead. And then I'm going to list some.

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[D]

Well, I was just going to say a couple things here. One is it's not that Trump was found innocent in these investigations. It's just that he was made president, elected president, and so the investigations went away. So the restitution is not because, oh, we were sorry we wrongly tried you. We wrongly investigated you. No, he just didn't. I mean, the documents case just went away because he became president again. So from a moral standpoint, you should consider that. Two is, how dare you insult Hunter Biden's artwork. It's fantastic. Three is, oh, I didn't know you.

[C]

Were a Hunter Biden art.

[D]

I own many pieces. Now I just want to read some quotes here because you overpaid for them.

[C]

If you did buy one, I want.

[D]

This is just some of the quotations from this. Bennett Gershom, the ethics professor at Pace University, is quoted in the piece, quote, what a travesty. The ethical conflict is just so basic and fundamental. You don't need a law professor to explain it. Well, he is a law professor and he did explain it. The other thing that I will say is that this is sort of classically Trump. And I'm not sure how the Times got on the story. I'm kudos to them for landing it. But they did kind of give away a little bit about how they got it, which is that Trump kind of just blurted it out randomly. So apparently he was at the Oval Office last week. He's with Cash Patel and Pam Bondi and Todd Blanche, Todd, Blanche's old attorney.

[F]

Who'S now a deputy at the doj.

[D]

And he just sort of goes rambling on and he says something that I didn't pick up at the time, but it kind of gave away the game. He says, I have a lawsuit that was doing very well and when I Became president. I said, I'm sort of suing myself. I don't know. How do you settle that lawsuit? I'll say, give me X dollars. And I don't know what to do with the lawsuit. It sort of looks bad. I'm suing myself. Right? So I don't know. But that was a lawsuit that was very strong, very powerful. That's an actual quote. The eloquence. I know it's profound and it's hard to, hard to really deal with it, but he just sort of gave away the game, basically, and that's how we discovered this.

[C]

What's funny is, is that he's playing dumb in that situation, right? He's being like, I don't know, I'm suing myself. Isn't that crazy? I, boy, I should probably resolve this in some way. What's a good way to resolve it? You give me $250 million. You. This is funny for a bunch of reasons. And I don't mean funny haha. I mean funny, right? Terrible. But one of them is in the focus groups all the time from the voters. There is a real sense that Trump is very magnanimous about his money. They're like, right. Gave up this lifestyle where he could have, you know, could do.

[D]

Sarah, Sarah. It extends to this ballroom where it's continued to believe, everyone believes that he's cutting the check for $250 million. East Wing Ballroom. He is absolutely not.

[C]

The ballroom. Glad you bought it. Brought up the ballroom. Guys, guys. First of all, anonymous, a bunch of anonymous donors are paying for that, plus maybe some taxpayers that, like, it's unclear. But here's the thing. He says, he says that there are donors and if there are, I'm sorry, do you want people who are trying to suck up to Donald Trump donating for his weird ballroom? Is that, I mean, that is just. That is also an unprecedented level of scandal. Taking the jet from Qatar or Qatar, I, I get notes that I'm pronouncing it wrong when he, he invites the businesses in to get exemptions from his tariffs if they suck up to him enough. And then the covering up of the Epstein files, the way he put Ghislaine in a minimum security Club Fed, you know, pardoning the January 6th people who, by the way, one of them just threatened to kill Hakeem Jeffries. There was like an assassination. Every single one of these is worse on its own than any scandal that plagued the Biden administration. But Donald Trump is able to, again, like, the lawsuits accrue so many scandals that when you talk, when you, like, post about Trump's corruption, the number of reply guys, MAGA reply guys who are there to be like, what corruption? What? Exceeding his authority, What? And you're like, I don't know how you explain to the American people like, this guy is ripping you off every day. He's enriching himself with crypto schemes and he's enriching himself from other countries, his hotels, everything is one big scam. So he's like, don't worry, guys, I'm giving up my salary, my $400,000 salary or whatever you get for being president. It is astonishing and we shouldn't be immune to it.

[D]

I'll just say a couple of expenditures that are happening right now. 20 billion, obviously, to Argentina in currency exchanges.

[F]

Good stuff.

[C]

That's B. B billion.

[F]

That's a B.

[D]

We'll go to the m's now.

[F]

Here.

[D]

$173 million for Christine to have two private jets, as she got to have two.

[F]

Can't, just can't do.

[C]

One for her, one for the ghost of her dog.

[F]

Rip. Too soon.

[D]

250 mil for the ballroom. 230 mil for this potential settlement. That adds up to a fair bit of change at the same time that.

[F]

We'Re trying to cut back on all.

[D]

The expenditures for, you know, subsidies.

[C]

Yeah, we shouldn't help kids who are dying of AIDS in Africa or feeding starving children. We gotta, we gotta, we gotta pay Trump for the mental anguish of trying to slow walk the prosecutions for the crimes he definitely committed.

[D]

Makes sense to me. All right, well, look, Sarah, thank you for doing this. Thank you for reminding me of my Hunter artwork that I gotta hang up in the office.

[C]

Get that?

[D]

All right, thank you guys for watching. Subscribe to the feed as always. Talk to you soon. Later.

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