Trump Soft-Launches His Dictatorship

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Bulwark Takes – "Trump Soft-Launches His Dictatorship"

Date: August 25, 2025
Hosts: Tim Miller & JVL (Jonathan V. Last)

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Episode Overview

This episode centers around Donald Trump's recent public statements that openly flirt with authoritarian rhetoric, especially his trial-ballooning of dictatorial powers and the lack of robust pushback from within the Republican Party and conservative media. Tim Miller and JVL dissect how Trump and his ecosystem are normalizing the notion of a "Trump dictatorship" in the right-wing narrative, and analyze reactions from various players, including the Wall Street Journal editorial board and establishment Republicans.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Dictatorship "Trial Balloon" ([00:30]–[01:30])

• Tim Miller flags a Trump press moment as a “dictatorship trial balloon” and cues up the relevant clip where Trump flirts with the idea of Americans wanting a dictator – not himself, of course, but “a lot of people are saying” it.
• Trump quote: “A lot of people are saying maybe we like a dictator. I don’t like a dictator. I’m not a dictator. I’m a man with great common sense…” ([00:59])

2. Dictator Aesthetics & Authoritarian Habits ([01:46]–[03:36])

• JVL points out it’s not the first time Trump has suggested Americans might want a dictator. He predicts a pattern: once is an accident, twice a coincidence, the third time “enemy fire.”
  • “One of the things you see in all dictatorial regimes is an obsession with making it look right…like a Morton Joe in Mad Max, Fury Road… All of this is Death of Stalin stuff.” ([03:17])
• JVL draws a parallel between Trump's hand makeup, the obsession with appearances, and the psychology of brittle authoritarian regimes: they require an unassailable image of the leader.

3. The MAGA Media and Right-Wing Inertia ([04:16]–[06:17])

• Tim Miller unpacks the spectrum in right-wing media:
  • On one side: “maximalists” like Steve Bannon and Tucker Carlson, openly calling for dictatorship, even joking about dynastic succession.
  • Trump himself: Engages in "foot-in-the-door" rhetoric—never directly claiming the desire for dictatorship, but letting others float the idea.
  • Establishment Republicans: Not pushing back, sometimes mocking “alarmists” who express concern.
• “There’s actually nobody really in right wing world publicly taking the position we don’t want Donald Trump to be a dictator...” (Tim Miller, [04:58])

4. Conservative Hypocrisy & “Good Republicans” ([06:17]–[09:43])

• JVL and Tim examine Republican elites (using John Bolton as an example) who refuse to back Democrats even when Trump threatens their own interests:
  • Bolton, despite being personally targeted by Trump, preferred a Cheney write-in over supporting Kamala Harris.
• Tim highlights the Wall Street Journal editorial board’s tepid criticisms—never quite able to grasp or admit the full authoritarian risk until after the fact.
  • “The real offender here is a president who seems to think he can use the power of his office to run vendettas. We said this was one of the risks of a second Trump term, and it’s turning out to be worse than we imagined.” (Wall Street Journal editorial quoted, [09:36])

5. The Power Dynamic: Who’s Using Whom? ([13:06]–[13:57])

• JVL: Many "good Republicans" and establishment figures delude themselves into thinking they’re using Trump for policy gains, when Trump is the one exerting real power.

  • "You think still that you're using Trump...but this is realpolitik. And these guys seem utterly blind to the fact that it's the opposite. Trump is the one in charge." ([13:06])

• Tim recounts Breitbart’s Matt Boyle even affirming the dynamic: "the nationalist authoritarians are using the Republican establishment cucks." ([13:54])

6. The Press Conference Escalates ([15:05]–[16:46])

• Tim and JVL detail further outlandish comments made during the Trump press conference:
  • Pete Hegseth praises arming National Guard soldiers to "take over" cities. ([15:05])
  • Stephen Miller claims D.C. is now so safe "women are wearing jewelry and carrying purses again."
  • Trump muses about renaming the Department of Defense to “Department of War.”
  • They joke about Trump’s plans to “annex Greenland and Canada” from his previous presidential term.

7. America First: Defining the Enemy as Domestic ([16:14]–[16:46])

• JVL emphasizes that Trump’s "America First" actually reorients the state’s focus away from external threats and towards internal enemies—casting Democrats, blue states, and activists as the true threat.
  • "The people we really need to crush and wage war against are right here at home. That's where we are." ([16:14])

8. Flag Desecration Executive Order & Free Speech ([16:46]–[19:20])

• The ostensible purpose of Trump’s presser was an executive order criminalizing flag desecration.
  • Trump states: "If you burn a flag, you get one year in jail. No early exits, no nothing…And you will see flag burning stopping immediately…" ([17:28])
• Tim and JVL note the selective application and performativity—unclear if supporters using flags as weapons (e.g., Jan. 6) would be prosecuted.
• JVL: When it comes down to real authoritarian acts, "none of these people we've been talking about, whatever their private feelings, will be willing to push back." ([19:20])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “A lot of people are saying maybe we like a dictator... I’m a man with great common sense.” – Donald Trump ([00:59])
• “One of the things you see in all dictatorial regimes is an obsession with making it look right... They're brittle… the minute people start saying, well, I…” – JVL ([02:37]–[03:12])
• "There's actually nobody really in right wing world publicly taking the position we don't want Donald Trump to be a dictator." – Tim Miller ([04:58])
• "You think still that you’re using Trump… but it’s the opposite. Trump is the one in charge." – JVL ([13:06])
• "The people we really need to crush and wage war against are right here at home. That's where we are." – JVL ([16:14])
• "If you burn a flag, you get one year in jail. No early exits, no nothing..." – Donald Trump ([17:28])
• "When the chips are down, none of these people we’ve been talking about, whatever their private feelings, will be willing to push back against it." – JVL ([19:20])

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [00:30] – Trump’s dictatorship trial balloon and analysis
• [03:36] – Authoritarian aesthetics and Trump’s self-image
• [04:16] – MAGA media extremism and right-wing inertia
• [07:18] – John Bolton’s anti-Trump, anti-Democrat balancing act
• [09:09] – Wall Street Journal Editorial Board criticism of Trump
• [13:06] – The establishment mistakenly thinks it controls Trump
• [15:05] – Armed National Guard and D.C. “law & order” narratives
• [16:46] – Flag desecration executive order and double standards
• [19:20] – Summing up: Why no one within the system will stop authoritarianism

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Conclusion

The hosts deliver a darkly humorous but sobering breakdown of how authoritarian trends are laundered into mainstream right-wing discourse, aided by media inertia and elite self-delusion. Trump’s provocations aren’t accidents; they’re tests of what the base and the system will tolerate, and examples abound of influential conservatives rationalizing or enabling the slide. The episode closes with a call to vigilance from outside the system: "If we get through this thing, it's going to be because of us, all of us. Like you guys listening." ([19:20])

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For more analysis and daily updates from The Bulwark team, subscribe to the feed.

Transcript

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[Tim Miller]

Hey, everybody, Tim Miller from the Bulwark here with my buddy jvl, author of the Triad newsletter, which you got to sign up [e-mail] we had to get on this morning because while I was taping the pod, our President Donald Trump, I think basically did a dictatorship trial balloon, I think is the best way you could describe this. Maybe that's slightly overstating it. We'll be interested to see what JBL thinks. Why don't we watch the clip together and see what we think on the other side?

[Donald Trump]

I made the statement that next should be Chicago because as you all know, Chicago is a killing field right now. And they don't acknowledge it. And they say we don't need him. Freedom. Freedom. He's a dictator. He's a dictator. A lot of people are saying maybe we like a dictator. I don't like a dictator. I'm not a dictator. I'm a man with great common sense and I'm a smart person. And when I see what's happening to our cities and, and then you send in troops instead of being praised. They're saying, you're trying to take over the republic.

[Tim Miller]

All right, jbl. So a lot of people are saying maybe we'd like a dictator, not Trump. He caveats. Not me. A lot of other people are saying it. We kind of have a long track record of Trump floating, of a lot of other people saying something and then him coming around to it.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Yeah, yeah. With tears in their eyes, they say, so this is actually the second time he's done this, Tim. Last week he was talking about the National Guard being sent to D.C. and he, he said already they're saying he's a dictator. D.C. is going to hell and we've got to stop it. So instead of saying he's a dictator, they should say, we're going to join him and make Washington safe. You know, so once could be an accident. Twice as coincidence. Like the third time, I guess will, you know, will be enemy fire. I don't know, man. I put all of this of a piece with the cankles in the hand makeup. That makes sense to you.

[Tim Miller]

It doesn't. I'm intrigued where you're going with this, though.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

So this is in. One of the things you see in all dictatorial regimes is an obsession with making it look right. Because dictatorships are. They're brittle. Right. So they're very strong, except until the point where they fail totally. Right. They're not resilient. They don't bend. They don't have a lot of. A lot of resiliency to the network. And so they really count on it always looking like it is inevitable that the guy who's the dictator is going to live for forever. Right. The minute people start saying, well, I.

[Tim Miller]

Don'T know, does the hand makeup make it seem like he's going to live forever or does that have a counter purpose?

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

The counter purpose. And I really think. But the length to which he's going to try to make it look. He's like a Morton Joe in, you know, Mad Max, Fury Road, you know, can never let the people see what he looks like without his battle dress on. And like, all of this is Death of Stalin stuff.

[Tim Miller]

Like this is.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Sending troops into cities, recruiting the National Guard from friendly red states, states that are allied with him. There's a real, like, occupied and occupier dynamic to it. Mixed with the guy talking openly about being a dictator, mixed with the. The regime's intense efforts to the point of ridiculousness to make it look like this old failing, physically failing guy is going to live for forever, man. Like nothing. This story doesn't end well, does it?

[Tim Miller]

It doesn't. I want to point out another kind of imbalance that I think about, but we've sort of seen this play out in a bunch of different ways in the past, kind of in this take Trump seriously, but not literally kind of sense about how Republicans handle him, which is you have this thing happening out in the world. By the world, I mean kind of like the MAGA media universe and social media, et cetera. Like, out there in the world, you have a group of people who are, like, advocating the most maximalist position. Bannon saying, like, I want Trump to run again in 2028. Tucker saying, it's inevitable that we have a dictator. Right? Like social media posts, like talking about passing down to Baron and stuff. So you have, like, that world which has, like, a lot of follow, like big followers. Some people are taking it as a joke, some people are taking it seriously. Right. So you have that happening on the one side and then you have Trump playing footsie with it a little bit, kind of doing that. Well, some people are saying this. Many people are saying this, da, da, da. I don't know, but maybe. And then you have the folks on the, whatever, more serious side, the people that ostensibly don't want a Trump dictatorship, not only not engaging with it, though, but like making fun of people like us who engage with it. Right. Like saying, oh, they have t. If they're taking this seriously, like they have tds, they're an alarmist. Right. So there's actually nobody really in right wing world publicly taking the position we don't want Donald Trump to be a dictator. There are people that hold that position, but they're not saying it explicitly. Right. They have it in their inside voice. And then there are people that are explicitly saying the counter. And then you have Trump kind of going like, well, we'll see what happens. Right. And again, we've seen this play out a bunch of times. And I think that's why it's important to watch what the Tucker and Bannon world are saying. And I don't like, there's almost an inertia towards it because there's no pushback, there's no countervailing force. Well, this is.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

And the people you're talking about understand that they will never say it out loud. Right. Or if they say it out loud, it'll be in a. Well, maybe we ought to take a really serious look at Nikki Haley running again. And you know, there are some very serious constitutional questions about this Supreme Court is going to have to adjudicate whether or not he can run again because his terms weren't consecutive. And this is, I mean, nobody's ever really thought this through. It's an open legal question. And when push comes to shove, they will be okay with it. And they'll be okay with it because the alternative is the bad people. Right. The alternative is, is Democrats with their socialism and their, you know, five publicly owned grocery stores in the, the five boroughs of New York City. And I'm here, I think John Bolton is like the perfect, perfect example of this. Did you remember that Bolton did not support Kamala Harris?

[Tim Miller]

Oh, of course. Yeah. I have a list.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Okay?

[Tim Miller]

So here I have a list right back there. People that did not specifically say they were supporting Kamala Harris. Yeah.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

So for people who do not keep lists, John Bolton, who was under constant attack from Donald Trump, who could have or should have reasonably guessed that a Trump second Trump administration would attempt to criminally prosecute him again, and whose own life's work of hawkish foreign policy stuff would, was almost directly opposed to what Trump promised to do as president and was basically aligned with what Kamala Harris was promising to do. I mean, the, the overlap between Bolton foreign policy and Kamala Harris foreign policy was probably like 80%, 85%. And even so, he insisted that he.

[Tim Miller]

Was going to earmuffs to some of our listeners, some of our viewers.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

I'm sorry, I don't want you guys to be triggered by this.

[Tim Miller]

Maybe 68%. Maybe 68%.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

An argument could be made for 70. And, and Bolton said that he was going to, he was going to write in Dick Cheney's name for, for president because he just couldn't abide by either the isolationist who wanted to jail him or the robust internationalist who happens to have a D next to her name. And Bolton was so out to lunch on this that after Dick Cheney, who he was going to write in, said that he was, he was going to vote for Kamala Harris, Bolton was like, well, I have to reconsider my write in vote. And that's, that's what, that's where all of these guys are.

[Tim Miller]

I think I meant to bring this up with Bill this morning and I forgot. No. So this is. Now we're down a tangent, but it's, it's too funny not to bring up. Do you see the Wall Street Journal ed board on Bolton?

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

I've written an entire newsletter about it today.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, thrilling. Okay. Well, for the listeners who haven't, I love this. I love this. The Wall Street Journal editoriality billboard to their credit, huge credit posed the raid on John Bolton. So great job, guys want to give credit where due they've spoken out against the regime on this one. But I love this, though. The real offender here is a president who seems to think he can use the power of his office to run vendettas. We said this was one of the risks of a second Trump turn and it's turning out to be worse than we imagined.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

Now remember, unlike John Bolton, the Wall Street Journal ed board did not formally endorse Trump per se, but they did a series of why you might be for Trump editorials and compared with why you might be for Kamala, it was clearly written so that the median reader of theirs would decide that it's probably, they should probably go with Trump. Right. Like when you looked at the way that they framed those two pieces. Yeah. And, and so that's where they were. Bulwark takes is sponsored by one skin product. I've been slinging for a while now, so much so that I've had, I think a couple of friends that have caught strays from me about how they need to be using One Skin either for their face and their wrinkles or for their scalp and their thinning hair. I've taken a little heat over that. Sorry for the real talk and if you don't want me coming after you like that, One Skin is the way to go. Let me explain Once it's proprietary OS 1 peptide is the first ingredient proven to switch off the damaged senescent cells that cause lines, wrinkles and thin crepey skin. Not creepy skin, Crepey skin. But crepey skin can be creepy I guess. Free from over 1500 chemicals and preservatives that can make skin red, irritated or itchy. Their products are certified safe for sensitive skin dermatologists, tested and approved by independent testing platforms. The cleanser and topical supplements can all be used with other products or treatments and easily fit into your current skincare routine. One Skin is world's first skin longevity company. By Focus on the cellular aspects of aging, One Skin keeps your skin looking and acting younger for longer. For a limited time, you can try one skin with 15% off using code bulwark takes at OneSkin co. That's 15% off OneSkin co with code bulwarktakes. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Give your skin the scientifically proven gentle care it deserves with One Skin. And they landed on. It's turning out to be worse than we imagined. Which is just. I mean, you gotta laugh just to keep from crying. But what was your newsletter summary summary?

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

People are gonna have to subscribe to no, I'm kidding. I'll just give it away for free here. But you people should go and sign up for it because it's like the best daily newsletter in politics.

[Tim Miller]

Many people are saying about him.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Many people are saying, tears in their eyes. So here's the thing. It's I don't want to. You know what you should never do is when people start agreeing with you, you should never then like yell at them that why didn't you agree sooner? You should just take it, right? Happy to have all the allies we can to push back against authoritarianism. And yet, and yet I would say it isn't just that the Wall Street Journal said, oh, Trump, doing vendettas is a thing that might happen in the second term. They did that as a way of attacking those of us who were warning that he was going to do very dangerous vendettas. So it was excuse making that they did when anybody could have seen. But what this is all about, right.

[Tim Miller]

Because you're referencing though, because this is like somewhere deep in my brain of my personal vendettas. But the editorial was something along the lines of like, we're not like one of those crazy never Trumpers who think that, who think that Donald Trump is going to institute gulags. Like, we are slightly concerned about the use of power. Like that was kind of how they framed it.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Right. But here's what this is. All this is all sprung from the same delusion, which is that whether you are the Wall Street Journal editorial page or John Bolton or any of the people in Republican world, people I just refer to as good Republicans, you think still that you're using Trump and that you're the ones with the whip hand and that he is the unwitting pawn of yours, and then you're getting what you want policy wise out of him. And it might be unsavory, but this is real politik. And these guys seem utterly blind to the fact that it's the opposite. Trump is the one in charge.

[Tim Miller]

It has been that way for years.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Yeah, for eight years.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. And it's been obvious for years. This reminds me of when I published the book and I got a call from Breitbart's Matt Boyle, who I describe as a grown up Ralph Wiggum. And the description of him was extremely pejorative. I was like, okay, he's gonna yell at me. Opposite. He called to be like, yeah, you have to do that. You have to make fun of me for your lib readers. But you're right that we're using them. The nationalist authoritarians are using the Republican establishment cucks. And you understand the power dynamic and they don't. And so I went to tell you, good job on the book. Okay, great. So it's like it was idiots. Like Matt Boyle could see it, we could see it, Everybody could see it except them the entire time. We've got. This is. This is turning into a full podcast because this press conference is ongoing. And so I want to just throw at you a couple other things that have been said. Hegseth speaks during the press conference and says, as at your direction as well, sir, it's common sense to make sure the National Guard is armed. So he's confirming their plan to arm.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Just common sense.

[Tim Miller]

The National Guard soldiers that are taking over the cities. Stephen Miller also speaks as DC is Now so safe that women are wearing jewelry and carrying purses. Again, that was something that wasn't happening in D.C. no women were wearing jewelry anywhere. And now Trump is drifting about maybe renaming the Department of Defense, taking it back to the Department of War.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Well, I mean, that would be interesting since Trump promised no more wars. I don't quite fully understand that, but, you know, there we are. Maybe he'll find some wars he is open to getting into against. Like, I guess, I'm sorry, I've forgotten. Are we no longer invading Greenland and Canada? Because those things were, I mean, annexing those two pieces of territory were absolutely vital to the national security interests of America for eight weeks. Is that, is that not.

[Tim Miller]

There's some chat about going after the cartels of Mexico. Yeah, I don't know. I think that they are planning war. Like, not to be glib about it, like, we're arming the National Guard troops that we're sending into blue cities. Like, that's the acute enemy.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Right? This is, and this is a very deep point. And I forget who, who made this. It's not mine. I'm regurgitating somebody else's. But the America first thing, it really is predicated upon the idea that all of the important enemies are actually domestic. That's what it's really about. Forget American leadership in the world, that far out group out there in North Korea, we don't care about them. The people we really need to crush and wage war against are right here at home. That's where we are.

[Tim Miller]

All right, I should close by saying this press briefing that we had that included discussion of women's purse carrying in DC and soft launch of dictatorship was actually about? Do you know what an executive order on desecrating the flag. Oh, so the free speech. Let's just watch a little clip from that. The executive order does, sir. It charges your Department of Justice with investigating instances of flag burning and then where there's evidence of criminal activity that where prosecution wouldn't fall afoul of the First Amendment and instructs the Department of Justice to prosecute those who are engaged in these instances of flag burning and.

[Donald Trump]

What the penalty is going to be. If you burn a flag, you get one year in jail. No early exits, no nothing. You get one year in jail. If you burn a flag, you get. And what it does is incite to riot. I hope they use that language, by the way, Didn't. Incitement is incite to riot and you burn a flag, you get one year in jail. You don't get 10 years. You don't get one month. You get one year in jail and it goes on your record. And you will see flag burning, stopping immediately, just like when I signed the Statute and Monument Act. 10 years in jail. Have you heard any of our beautiful monuments? Everybody left town. They were gone. Never had a problem after that. It was pretty amazing. We stopped it. But this is something that's. I don't know. In a certain way, it's equally as important. Some people would say it's more important because the people in this country don't want to see our American flag burned and spit on, and by people that are, in many cases paid agitators. They're paid by the radical left to do it. You talk to these people, they don't even know. Half of them don't even know what they're doing. They say, I don't know. They gave me money to do this. I see the same things that you do. They're bad people. They're trying to destroy our nation.

[Tim Miller]

So the free speech absolutists here, we have a fiat from the leader. The flag cannot be desecrated. Unclear if there is a penalty for the flag flying that upside down like Martha Annalito did. Oh, does that count? Unclear if that counts. Unclear if, like using the flag to beat cops on January 6, those folks are going to be. Yeah, I don't know if they're going to be targeted. Not sure, but that's where we're at now. They're playing that. They're playing the hits on flag desecration. Do you have any thoughts on this as it ties to the subject of maybe some people are saying dictatorship.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Just that when the chips are down, none of these people we've been talking about, whatever their private feelings, will be willing to push back against it. They're, they're, they're never going to join the cause. And, and so if, if we get through this thing, it's going to be because of us, all of us. Like you guys listening.

[Tim Miller]

And don't burn the flag while you're fighting back. Carry a sandwich. Carry a sandwich. Just for protection, but don't burn the flag. All right, that's it. That's Jonathan. Last subscribe to the feed and we will be covering the. You know, maybe some people are saying dictatorship, maybe not. Day to day for you guys. Tell your friends we'll see you all soon.