Trump Trolls, Dems Lecture—Guess Who Wins? (w/ Arthur Delaney)

Summary

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**Podcast Summary: Bulwark Takes – Trump Trolls, Dems Lecture—Guess Who Wins? (w/ Arthur Delaney)

Date: October 1, 2025
Host: Sam Stein | Guest: Arthur Delaney (HuffPost)**

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the ongoing government shutdown, the political dynamics fueling it, and the wildly different worlds inhabited by Republicans and Democrats on Capitol Hill. Host Sam Stein interviews Hill reporter Arthur Delaney, unpacking not just the current negotiating impasse but also the ways each party is playing the shutdown politically, including Trump’s inflammatory online trolling and the Democrats’ more earnest, procedural messaging.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Shutdown Fatigue and the New Normal

• Shutdowns lose impact through repetition:
  • Delaney notes that the drama of past shutdowns has faded due to their growing frequency, despite real consequences.

  • “I think just through sheer repetition, the drama is much less this time, even though the effects are significant…we’ve done this before.”
    — Arthur Delaney (01:03)

2. Negotiations: Real or Theatrical?

• Stalemate as process:
  • Stein presses Delaney on whether negotiations are genuinely happening or just for show.
  • Delaney describes “talks” happening on the Senate floor but no substantive movement:

    • “There are no negotiations.” — Arthur Delaney (01:30)

    • “There’s like a few senators were huddling…we could all see them…Senate Republicans were just like, screw you guys.” — B (01:34)

• Democratic resistance and motives:
  • Delaney acknowledges that Democrats are participating in the process but frames it as reactionary, especially given Republican moves on Obamacare subsidies and spending rescissions.
  • Stein underlines how Republicans keep undercutting bipartisan agreements, giving Democrats a legitimate reason, beyond optics, to hold firm.

3. The “Rescissions” Factor

• Dysfunction over trust in deals:
  • Both delve into the impact of Republicans unilaterally walking back spending agreements, and the Biden administration’s own unilateral rescissions.

  • “The administration also unilaterally undid several billion dollars in foreign aid funding. So your Democrats have pointed out repeatedly, we're supposed to agree to a deal that you then don't honor.”
    — Arthur Delaney (04:02)

• Rescissions don’t move the public:
  • Both agree that although rescissions matter procedurally, they’re too abstract for most Americans to motivate public outrage.

4. Partisan Project Cancellations & OMB’s Moves

• Russ Vought’s ‘brazen’ tactics:
  • Former OMB Chief Russ Vought is actively canceling “blue state” projects and subsidies, which Delaney and Stein highlight as both partisan and possibly illegal.

  • “He's also being, like, brazenly partisan about it…it's like every state that's Democratic."
    — Arthur Delaney (05:33)

  • Stein wants Delaney to confront Republican Senators with the question: Would you accept a Democratic OMB canceling red-state projects?

5. Damaging Trust and Political Calculus

• Republican discomfort:
  • Some Republicans reportedly dislike the administration’s retaliatory shutdown tactics, recognizing that it doesn’t help resolve the impasse.

  • “Republicans don't really love this aspect of it on Capitol Hill. The payback.”
    — Arthur Delaney (07:27)

6. Trump’s Trolling and the Dissonance of Political Messaging

• Absurdity and offensiveness:

  • The discussion pivots to Trump posting (and deleting) racist AI-generated videos of House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries. While Democrats respond with indignation and procedural language, Trump world leans into the trolling.
  • Clip of Caroline Levitt (Trump spokesperson), defending the president’s penchant for memes:

    • “He likes to share memes, he likes to share videos, he likes to repost things…it's quite refreshing that we have a president who is so open and honest directly himself.” (08:20)

• Political worlds apart:

  • Stein and Delaney agree that the two parties’ tactics are comically mismatched—Trump’s unserious, race-baiting memes versus Democrats’ high-minded lectures.

  • “You have, like, Hakeem Jeffries: 'This is undignified.' …and then the White House and Trump are like, Yeah, yeah, it’s hilarious. Look at this guy in a sombrero.”
    — Sam Stein (08:45)

  • “I take it as a hint that the shutdown will be long.”
    — Arthur Delaney (09:04)

• Calling out the racism:

  • “Sometimes it’s corny when progressives say, well, that's racist. But I honestly, what else can you say about it?”
    — Arthur Delaney (09:21)

  • “How is putting a black man in a sombrero racist? …Come on, people, what is this stupid playground taunting?”
    — Sam Stein (09:40)

7. Economic Messaging and Political Entrenchment

• Jeffries pivots to economic critique:
  • Rather than focusing only on procedure, Jeffries frames the shutdown and project cancellations as job-killing Trump economics, a potential vulnerability for Trump.
• Both sides digging trenches:
  • The hosts agree both parties are locking into their most comfortable talking points, even if these don’t move the shutdown closer to a resolution.

8. Predictions: How Long Will the Shutdown Last?

• Reluctant wagers and black swan events:
  • Delaney guesses “three weeks,” with Stein cynically taking the under, recalling past failed predictions.

  • “My reckless guess is incredibly reckless.”
    — Arthur Delaney (11:25)

  • They reference a recent crisis (the Charlie Kirk assassination), noting the fast-moving craziness of Washington now:

    • “Do you remember the assassination of Charlie Kirk? It felt like a world destroying phenomenon...so much crazy stuff is constantly coming out of the White House.”
      — Arthur Delaney (12:00)

9. Alliteration and the “Schumer Shutdown”

• Political branding and blame games:
  • Stein asks if Chuck Schumer is “disadvantaged” by the phrase “Schumer Shutdown” just sounding good. Delaney agrees, noting Republicans are leaning into alliteration, even as they try attacks on immigration.

  • “Schumer Shutdown—it just sounds good...You need an alliteration. It just doesn’t work [for other names].”
    — Sam Stein (13:23)

10. Democratic Messaging Challenges

• Ineffective counter-campaigning:
  • Delaney observes Democrats’ communications efforts are falling flat, with minimal live-stream viewership and little “lightning in a bottle.”

  • “Hakeem Jeffries was trying to do a 24-hour live stream—yeah, you have fewer people watching this than you have in the Democratic caucus.”
    — Arthur Delaney (13:37)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The government shut down, but I'm still at the Capitol. We're still doing stuff over here. This part of the government's still open.”
  — Arthur Delaney (00:17)
• “Democrats need a way to climb down. They definitely are the ones who precipitated this by not voting for a clean government funding bill, you know, which they've always said is what you gotta do.”
  — Arthur Delaney (02:02)
• “They're not, like, they're not working in the same world.”
  — Sam Stein (09:04)
• “You just described what it was like if I were your editor still and I like made you do a story and then I just rewrote all the story. You would stop doing—Start now.”
  — Sam Stein (04:56)
• “I predicted that you would be rude on this interview.”
  — Arthur Delaney (11:48)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00–01:16 – Shutdown context, “new normal,” less drama
• 01:16–04:39 – Sticking points: negotiations vs. talks, Democrats’ motives, rescissions
• 05:33–07:27 – OMB’s partisan project cancellations, reactions from Republicans
• 08:20–09:54 – Trump’s AI video trolling of Jeffries, White House response, and the disconnect
• 10:29–12:00 – Entrenchment, Republican messaging, predictions on shutdown length
• 13:07–13:54 – “Schumer Shutdown” alliteration, struggles with effective Democratic messaging

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Conclusion

This episode vividly spotlights the dysfunction and performative politics of the shutdown era, laying bare a Capitol Hill where old rules and outrage have dulled, and the very language of politics has become playground taunting on one side and hollow lectures on the other. In the end, both hosts see little movement ahead—just deepening trenches, a divided media sphere, and plenty of meme wars to come.

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Transcript

[A]

All right. Hey, everybody. Sam Stein managing out at the Bulwark, joined by Arthur Delaney, a fan favorite from HuffPost. He's up on the Hill, as you can tell by the tight confines where he's sitting. And we're going to be talking about the. The government shutdown. Artie, what's going on, man?

[B]

The government shut down, but I'm still at the Capitol. We're still doing stuff over here. This part of the government's still open.

[A]

What number shutdown is this for you?

[B]

I'm not sure. There's been some, like, really dinky ones, and people wondering if this will be a big one or not. Don't know yet.

[A]

Yeah, well, I asked that because I remember my first shutdown was in the Obama era and. Or shutdown fight, I should say. And it was like a big deal. Like, people were freaking out and running around and really, like, concerned about the possibility of the shutdown. And this doesn't feel like that. This feels almost like matter. Of course, I agree.

[B]

I think just through sheer repetition, the drama is much less this time, even though the effects are significant, just like they were in the previous times. Like, we've done this before.

[A]

Yeah. All right, so set the stakes. Like, it's 3 o'. Clock, it's Wednesday. We've been shut down for 15 hours now. Where do negotiations stand and what are the sticking points?

[B]

There are no negotiations.

[A]

No, that's not true. There's talks.

[B]

Well, yeah, there's like a few senators were huddling on the Senate floor and, you know, we could all see them. So we're like, who. What were you talking about in the Republicans? Or, you know, Mike Rollins, the senator from North Dakota, was like, yeah, well, we were just, we're not going to negotiate while the government's shut down. Like, what? But we saw you. We saw you talking.

[A]

What is the distinction between a talk and a negotiation?

[B]

I don't know. It's. It's something that won't be done as publicly as that. But Democrats need a way to climb down. They definitely are the ones who precipitated this by not voting for a clean government funding bill, you know, which they've always said is what you gotta do. That said, I mean, they are part of the process. They Republicans.

[A]

It sounds like you're blaming the Democrats here.

[B]

I mean, Democrats are part of the process. They do need to vote in order to get something through the Senate and Senate. Republicans were just like, screw you guys. They made no effort to get them along in. Even as they say, we agree with you. That we should do something about the expiring Obamacare subsidies. And to be fair to Democrats, this is like the biggest thing happening in federal healthcare policy for years to come. Like, it's not they picked this fight, but they did pick it on a big topic where they happen to have very favorable Poland.

[A]

Right. So the premiums are going to shoot up because the subsidies are expiring at the end of the year. But insurers have to set the premiums in anticipation of what they imagine the marketplace to be. So this is happening. It's a big deal. I guess you would know this better than I do because you're up there. But for me, obviously that's the more favorable terrain. But to me, it seems like the more logical reason to say we're not going to give you our votes, Democrats to say that is because of rescissions. So in essence, what's happening is that they're making these bipartisan agreements about spending, but then on a party line vote, Republicans are undoing those agreements. So like, that to me sucks out all the reason for Democrats to partake in a negotiation. But I don't really hear many Democrats offering that up as their reason for not voting for a bill. Am I missing something?

[B]

No, you're right. Rescissions, it just, it doesn't get on tv if you're here talking to them a lot. It does come up a lot. And it is, it is one of their, one of their main side justifications for what they're doing. It's not just that Republicans, you know, did a funding deal in March and then on partisan basis undid it. The administration also unilaterally undid several billion dollars in foreign aid funding. So your Democrats have pointed out repeatedly, we're supposed to agree to a deal that you then don't honor.

[A]

Yeah, like, what the fuck, right?

[B]

So yeah, that is part of it. I've been hearing that today. But like, I don't think people out there care too much about that. It's like arguing about democracy and checks and balances, which I guess is deemed too abstract, I guess.

[A]

But yeah, if I were, if I were your editor still and I like made you do a story and then I just rewrote all the story. You would stop doing. Start now. You, you would continue. You just described what it was, describe the process. What is the. So the other thing that's happening today is that Russ Vaught, OMB chief, is just going around being like, I'm not going to spend money on this Blue State project. And you know what I just decided I'm not going to do this blue state project. And, like, I'm not sure he has any real authority to do that, but, like, he's just doing it. And so, like, what is the reaction on the hell to that?

[B]

He's also being, like, brazenly partisan about it. Like, I am canceling green news scam subsidies in the following states, and it's like every state that's Democratic.

[A]

I will say there were two non states that weren't run by Democratic governors among the list, but they're like, both north. There's like Vermont and New Hampshire.

[B]

So it's pretty obvious this is. This, I mean, goes pairs well with the argument about rescissions, which is that the administration not only does not honor us as a coequal branch of government, but is flat out lawless. Yeah, you're not. These rescissions and. And probably these grant or project cancellations are not lawful or constitutional. And I talked to Chris Murphy from Connecticut about it, and he said, well, this just makes us want to dig in even more. This just.

[A]

Can I suggest something? Can you just go around and ask Republican senators, like, if you were in the on. If the shoe were on the other foot and the Democratic OMB was just canceling projects and rescinding funds, like, wouldn't you not vote for an appropriations. I would be very curious to know, like, how they rationalize that.

[B]

Igor, Bobby and I talked to a couple of Republicans for a story we're doing Wednesday, and I saw Jim Justice. I was like, do you think that. I asked him, should the administration just go ahead and fire people and take other retaliatory measures to make the shutdown worse for Democrats. And he immediately was like, no, you know, people have families. And he's from West Virginia, so he's got some tendencies to not want people who rely on the government to be screwed. And Igor heard from Tom Pillis who said this isn't the greatest idea. Republicans don't really love this aspect of it on Capitol Hill. The payback.

[A]

Yeah, no, I get that. But if they're asked, why should a Democrat vote for a funding bill that Rus Fat's just going to unilaterally undo, I'm just curious what their answer would be.

[B]

Yeah, there are Republican voices saying this is not helpful for getting us out of the shutdown, but that's obvious. That's obvious.

[A]

It's pretty lame. I want to talk about other funnier things because it does seem like these two parties are just operating in different galaxies. So, like, you and I were texting about this, but, like, Trump's been putting up these racist AI videos of Hakeem Jeffries. I. I shouldn't laugh. Every time I laugh at the absurdity, people think I'm, like, laughing at with Trump, but I'm laughing at Trump. It's got a Hakeem and a sombrero. It's. It's just racist. It's stupid. And yet the White House, like, let's just play what Caroline Levitt said.

[C]

I think the president saw the video and posted it and then took it down. And he has the right to do that. It's his social media. He's in crime. Incredibly transparent, as you all know. You hear from him directly on social media. He likes to share memes, he likes to share videos, he likes to repost things that he sees other people post on social media as well. And I think it's quite refreshing that we have a president who is so open and honest directly himself. Many a times on truth, you are hearing directly from the president, United States.

[A]

So, like, as you and I described it, you have, like, Hakeem Jaffe's like, this is undignified behavior. This is unserious stuff. And then the White House and Trump are like, yeah, yeah, it's hilarious. Look at this guy in a sombrero. So funny. It's just, they're not, like, they're not working in the same world.

[B]

I take it as a hint that the shutdown will be long.

[A]

You do?

[B]

Well, Trump's the one who's gotta come in and finish it. You know, Republicans work for him. They're not gonna strike the deal and present it to him without some indication that he'll accept it.

[A]

That's a good point. Yeah.

[B]

And it, like, it's completely offensive stuff. He's basically, well, Hakeem Jeffries, you're a minority. All we can do is laugh at you. Yeah. I think it's sometimes it's corny when progressives say, well, that's racist. But I honestly, what else can you say about it? That that is.

[A]

It's right. It's racist. I mean, the White House's response was, how is putting a black man in a sombrero racist? Is he offended for being called a Mexican? Isn't that racist? It's like, come on, people, what is this stupid playground taunting?

[B]

Yeah. And so Jeffries is just trying to remain disciplined. And he said today, you know, regarding the targeted cancellation of funds for New York, for New York infrastructure projects, well, this is just what Donald Trump does. He kills jobs. So they are. Rather than being overly personal and saying it's about democracy or divisions of government, he's saying this is more bad Trump economic policy because, you know, economic policy is an area where Trump is losing support.

[A]

Yeah, I get it. I get it. I don't know. I kind of vacillate between wondering if they should just like do the Gavin Newsom mockery stuff or I guess they.

[B]

Can'T because they need. So they did health care. They're doing health care. And I know you have Jonathan Cohn, who is very strong on this topic, but it's got the Republicans saying, well, you've shut down the government for illegal aliens.

[A]

Yeah. We have a video coming on that. Cohen did a whole piece on that. It's just bullshit.

[B]

It's not a strong talking point. It shows Republicans trying to shift to their own higher ground where they have an advantageous position. So it's another thing that I think portends a long shutdown because these two sides are digging their trenches where they feel they've got better politics.

[A]

All right, well, I have two more questions. I'll go with my last one first because it sets it up. But what's your over under on how long this thing lasts?

[B]

It's hard to say because.

[A]

No, you got it. You got to say, I'm not going to lay off the hook. Give me an over under.

[B]

I will say three weeks with the caveat that I'm making. I'm taking the under a reckless guess. My reckless guess is incredibly reckless.

[A]

First of all, I should just let the viewers know you're horrible at this game. If I remember correctly, you're really bad. No, you are. It's okay. You have a lot of great qualities, but this is not one of them. You're very bad at predicting things, if I remember correctly.

[B]

That's not true. I predicted that you would be rude on this interview.

[A]

Okay, one for your last 35. But I'm taking the under. I don't think it lasts three weeks.

[B]

The thing is, something, some weird thing is going to happen. Do you remember the assassination of Charlie Kirk? It felt like a world destroying phenomenon. And I know that we were going through the backlash to that and the clampdown on the radical left, but it still feels like it was ages ago now because so much crazy stuff is constantly coming out of the White House.

[A]

How long ago do you think Charlie Kirk's assassination was if he had to guess? Don't Google.

[B]

It was four weeks ago.

[A]

No, three. Close off by week. But again, you're not very good at predicting things. I'm predicting. That's the opposite of predicting. I have taken the under. It's going to be under three weeks. You heard it here first. Finally, and I mean this with like some sincerity, but not much. How, how disadvantage is Chuck Schumer by the fact that the alliteration just doesn't work in his favor. Schumer shutdown, it just rolls off the tongue really well. And you can't come up with an alternative for Trump or Thune. There's just no T that like lends itself to that nickname.

[B]

I thought Republicans had a strong argument that, look, Democrats rejected a clean funding bill and it's a Schumer shutdown. And that's why I'm slight surprised that they are instead saying Democrats are trying to help illegals.

[A]

Nah, they're doing it all. But my point is Schumer shutdown, it just sounds good. And they don't have like a Thune. What A Johnson? What? It's like you need an alliteration. It just doesn't work.

[B]

I will say that Democrats have, they've done a lot of press conferences and stuff and they haven't really caught lightning in a bott. Hakeem Jeffries was trying to do a 24 hour live stream. Yeah, you have fewer people watching this than you have in the Democratic caucus.

[A]

At one point it was like 170 concurrence. Ish.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Got to do better than that.

[B]

Would know about that over here at.

[A]

The board, Bulwark and the board, please. I would, I would quit my job if we had 170 concurrents. That would be a failure. All right, well, look, I say go ask the question of those Republicans that I suggested. And if you get good answers, don't Write it for HuffPost. Just come back and report to me.

[B]

Okay, I'll come back. All right.

[A]

Artie Delaney, my man. Thank you so much, buddy.

[B]

Thanks for having me.

[D]

All right, everybody. We are sold out of tickets to all of our shows on the fall Tour except for October 8th in Washington D.C. i was on a call yesterday planning out what we've got in store for you. It's going to be fun. Obviously, JBL will be there, so there'll be elements of Darkness. We're also bringing in Sarah McBride for a conversation with Sarah Longwell that I'm super excited for. Maybe we might get Will Summer up to talk about some of the crazy shit that's happening on the Mega Ride. I've got some other plans in store for you so it's not too late. Get your tickets now. Washington, D.C. october 8th. You go to the bulwark.com events. The bulwark.com events. I hope to see you all there. It's at Lincoln Theater. Awesome venue. Appreciate them for hosting us. And so I hope to see you all in Washington October 8th.