Bulwark Takes — “Trump's Drug Kingpin Pardon Makes No Sense”

Date: November 30, 2025
Host: Andrew Egger
Guest: Will Saletan
Featured Voice/Clip: Donald Trump

Overview

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, host Andrew Egger and guest Will Saletan dive into the shocking news that Donald Trump has promised to pardon Juan Orlando Hernández, the former president of Honduras who was convicted in the United States on charges related to major drug trafficking and weapons offenses. The hosts unpack the absurdity of this promise, its obscure political logic, and how it fits into a disturbing broader pattern in Trump’s domestic and foreign policy instincts. The conversation also explores Trump's reflexive distrust of US judicial institutions and his odd tendency to side with right-wing leaders facing criminal prosecution around the globe.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Shocking, Out-of-Nowhere Pardon Announcement

• [00:00 – 02:44]
  • Trump unexpectedly promised a pardon for Hernández, who was sentenced to 45 years in a US prison for drug trafficking and related crimes.
  • Trump’s announcement was sandwiched into social media endorsements of an unrelated Honduran political candidate, almost as an afterthought, bewildering observers.
  • Hernández, seen publicly as a US ally while in power, was ultimately revealed (in a US criminal trial) to be cavorting with the drug lords he claimed to oppose.
    • Quote: “He once boasted that he would, quote, stuff the drugs up the gringo’s noses. He accepted a $1 million bribe from El Chapo to allow cocaine shipments to pass through Honduras.”
      — Andrew Egger [03:36]
  • No clear political gain or transactional logic: “It’s not like he was a guy who was really on anybody’s radar for, for, you know, Donald Trump to like be trading political favors with or anything like that.”
    — Andrew Egger [01:15]

2. Trump’s Contradictory ‘Narco Policy’

• [02:44 – 07:41]
  • Trump, in his online comments, continually refers to “narco-terrorists” and “narco-communists,” yet is intervening on behalf of a convicted drug kingpin.
  • The US is actively pursuing harsh anti-drug operations in Central and South America (bombing drug boats, sanctioning Venezuela for alleged cartel activity).
  • Trump’s distrust for the US justice system is central—he views drug convictions as politically motivated attacks, not as legitimate enforcement.
    • Quote: “In a normal world, that would mean that we give extra credence to the charges against him. ... In the Trump world, it’s the other way around, because Trump sees the United States justice system as an enemy.”
      — Will Saletan [06:18]
  • Hernández’s own claims of “political prosecution” and “a lynching through the US Judicial system” are the “magic words” that appeal to Trump’s persecution complex.
    • Quote: “Trump says they gave him 45 years, Hernandez, because he was the president. Trump said you could do this to any president.”
      — Will Saletan [07:32]

3. Trump’s Felons-First Foreign Policy

• [07:41 – 15:45]
  • Similar instances globally: Trump consistently goes to bat for right-wing politicians facing legal consequences.
    • France: Trump defends Marine Le Pen after conviction for embezzlement, echoing his own “bookkeeping error” excuse [09:40].
    • Israel: Trump calls Netanyahu’s bribery/fraud trial a “witch hunt,” threatens to withhold US aid unless he’s freed [10:55].
      • Quote: “He’s like a donor basically threatening to pull the plug on the nation of Israel if they don’t pardon or excuse or help just somehow get Benjamin Netanyahu off.”
        — Will Saletan [11:19]
    • Brazil: Trump penalizes Brazil with tariffs to “protect his buddy” Bolsonaro after conviction for trying to steal an election [12:48 – 13:32].
      • Clip/Quote: “That’s very much like they tried to do with me, but they didn’t get away with it at all.”
        — Donald Trump [13:22]
    • South Korea: Trump instantly references his own prosecutor (“Jack Smith, deranged!”) when another country’s special prosecutor is mentioned [15:05].
• Trump’s motivation is always personal identification: “in every one of these cases, it seems like that’s his foreign policy.”
  — Will Saletan [15:37]

4. Immediate Reactions and Implications

• [15:45 – End]
  • Trump’s pattern: First, he feels solidarity with other “prosecuted” right-wing leaders; then, he takes impulsive, sometimes consequential, action—without second thoughts.
    • “It’s not just that it’s the first thought, it is also the last thought.”
      — Andrew Egger [15:45]
  • Concern over what this signals for global perceptions of US justice: will it incentivize further appeals to Trump from international criminal politicians?
  • The episode ends reflecting on the surreal, unconscionable, and yet—within Trump’s worldview—somewhat “understandable” nature of this latest pardon promise.
    • “We will keep following it as it comes out.”
      — Andrew Egger [16:56]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I thought that on Thanksgiving the President is supposed to pardon a turkey, not a drug trafficker.”
  — Will Saletan [00:35]
• “Apparently related, because he puts it in the same truth post. ... By the way, Andrew Trump says in these posts endorsing the Honduran candidate, I’m endorsing this guy because we need to beat the narco terrorists. In another one, he says, we gotta beat the narco communists. It’s always narco this, narco that. And then he just throws in a pardon of this massively convicted drug trafficker.”
  — Will Saletan [01:56]
• “Trump absolutely fell for it. And in the statement that Trump put out to the New York Times ... Trump says they gave him 45 years, Hernandez, because he was the president. Trump said you could do this to any president. So Trump identifies with Hernandez as a former president who was targeted by the US Judicial system. That’s it. That’s the connection.”
  — Will Saletan [07:32]
• “Trump’s Felons First Foreign Policy. … Are you a criminal? If so, our criminal president identifies with you.”
  — Will Saletan [09:49]
• “It’s not like he was a guy who was really on anybody’s radar for ... trading political favors. ... Who knows how many more of these are going to be forthcoming. ... Honduras is already pretty far down there.”
  — Andrew Egger [16:25]

Important Segments (with Timestamps)

• [00:00 – 02:44] — Introduction; the bizarre circumstances of Trump’s pardon promise.
• [03:36] — Recap of Hernández’s crimes and damning trial findings.
• [06:18] — How Trump’s skepticism of the US judicial system inverts normal logic.
• [07:32] — Trump’s explanation to the NYT; identification with Hernández.
• [09:40 – 15:37] — Trump’s global “felons first” policy; France, Israel, Brazil, S. Korea examples.
• [15:45 – End] — Reflections on Trump’s impulsive logic and the future implications.

Tone & Language

The conversation is incredulous, at times darkly humorous, and seasoned with exasperation over Trump’s worldview and its consequences for US policy. The hosts speak with a mixture of journalistic seriousness, wit, and clear frustration at the ongoing normalization of the bizarre.

Summary

Trump’s promised pardon of Juan Orlando Hernández is not just baffling—it's an emblem of his unique approach to power, justice, and international relations: personal identification with accused right-wing leaders, a profound distrust of US institutions, and a foreign policy guided by a “felons first” logic. The Bulwark’s team argues that while the move is nonsensical by traditional standards, it’s disturbingly coherent within Trump’s personal and political instincts—offering little reassurance for the future of American global leadership or rule of law.