Bulwark Takes: "Trump's Economy Is So Volatile It Might Just Sink Him"

Release Date: May 22, 2025

Hosts: Nicole Wallace, Tim Miller
Guests: Justin Wolfers (Professor of Economics and Public Policy, University of Michigan)

Introduction

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, hosts Nicole Wallace and Tim Miller delve into the turbulent state of the U.S. economy under President Donald Trump's administration. The discussion centers around the proposed "big beautiful bill," its impact on financial markets, and the broader implications for the American populace and the MAGA coalition.

The Debt Bomb and Market Reactions

Nicole Wallace opens the discussion by highlighting the precarious economic situation resulting from the Republican push to pass a substantial debt-increasing bill. She describes the bill as a "Frankenstein monster" that promises to exacerbate the national deficit, leading to investor unease and rising interest rates.

• Nicole Wallace [00:00]:
  "This Frankenstein monster of a bill is going to increase the deficit substantially and create a situation where America is like a lot of the holders of debt start to become uneasy about whether they're going to get paid back, which means interest rates start to go up, which is going to have a negative impact on everybody."

Tim Miller concurs, emphasizing the political maneuvering involved in pushing the bill through Congress without adequate deliberation.

• Tim Miller [01:13]:
  "Political pressure on the Republicans on the Hill to just do whatever Trump wants that they're just going to do it."

Political Challenges in Passing the Bill

The hosts discuss the internal struggles within the Republican Party to finalize and pass the bill amidst increasing opposition and market instability. Nicole mentions a critical view from Thomas Me Massey, who derogatorily refers to the bill as the "Big Beautiful Turd," underscoring the chaotic nature of its formation.

• Nicole Wallace [01:15]:
  "How are you going to vote on something they're still writing that's going to massively revamp the economy in ways that are going to be pretty damaging for people who aren't at the very top of the income scale."

Tim Miller elaborates on Wall Street's negative reaction, noting a significant drop in the Dow by over 800 points due to fears surrounding the bill's implications.

• Tim Miller [02:57]:
  "Wall street investors are spooked by yet another of Donald Trump's economic pillars, the Dow, tumbling more than 800 points today over concerns about Trump's big beautiful bill."

Impact on Regular Americans

Nicole Wallace shifts the focus to how the economic policies and rising interest rates directly affect everyday Americans. She explains that high interest rates are making housing unaffordable for many, whether they are young families buying their first home or retirees downsizing.

• Nicole Wallace [04:52]:
  "A lot of people are in a really tight squeeze when it comes to how much the interest rates are now as compared to how much they were five years ago, 10 years ago."

She emphasizes that the repercussions of increased debt and interest rates are no longer abstract economic concerns but tangible issues impacting individuals' daily lives.

Trump's Stance on Debt

A pivotal moment in the episode features a clip of President Donald Trump discussing his approach to debt management. Trump proudly proclaims himself the "king of debt," suggesting a strategy of renegotiating unfavorable debt terms.

• Donald Trump [06:33]:
  "I call myself the king of debt. I'm the king of debt. I'm great with debt. Nobody knows debt better than me."

Nicole follows up with a question about his method of debt renegotiation.

• Nicole Wallace [06:44]:
  "How do you renegotiate the debt?"

Trump responds by humorously proposing to halve the debt amidst economic downturns.

• Donald Trump [06:46]:
  "Because you go back and you say, hey, guess what, the economy just crashed. I'm going to give you back half."

This exchange highlights the administration's cavalier attitude toward national debt and its potential consequences.

Implications for the MAGA Coalition

Tim Miller probes the political fallout within the MAGA movement resulting from these economic policies. Nicole Wallace provides an in-depth analysis of the fractures forming within the coalition, driven by conflicting interests among its various factions.

• Nicole Wallace [07:00]:
  "You have your populist MAGA types that don't want these cuts to Medicaid and SNAP... You have the remaining Tea Party budget hawk types that are trying to find the cuts to pay for these tax cuts."

She explains that the resultant "Frankenstein monster" bill attempts to appease all factions superficially but inadvertently harms key segments of the middle and working class, thereby fracturing the coalition.

• Nicole Wallace [08:30]:
  "When you end up with spiking interest rates for middle class folks, when you end up with working class people losing their SNAP benefits in health care, there's going to be big parts of the MAGA coalition that are mad."

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Tim Miller reflecting on the widespread economic pain being felt across the political spectrum. He underscores the unprecedented scale of suffering resulting from the administration's economic strategies, hinting at significant political repercussions for Trump.

• Tim Miller [08:30]:
  "What's amazing is what you're both describing is pain and suffering that will be indiscriminate at a partisan level... which hasn't really happened in the Trump story in such a mass scale."

The hosts affirm their commitment to keeping listeners informed amidst the evolving economic and political landscape.

Key Takeaways:

• The proposed debt-increasing bill threatens to escalate the national deficit, causing investor unease and soaring interest rates.
• Internal conflicts within the Republican Party jeopardize the bill's passage, potentially weakening the MAGA coalition.
• Rising interest rates and economic instability are directly impacting regular Americans, making housing and other expenses more burdensome.
• President Trump's approach to debt management, characterized by renegotiation, may further undermine economic stability.
• The administration's economic policies risk alienating key voter demographics, leading to broader political consequences.

For more insightful analyses and updates on the evolving economic situation, subscribe to Bulwark Takes and stay informed with unbiased, radical candor.