Bulwark Takes: "Trump’s Epstein Scandal Won’t Go Away" – July 15, 2025

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, host Sam Stein engages in a thought-provoking discussion with Bill Kristol, Professor Emeritus, delving deep into the enduring ramifications of the Jeffrey Epstein scandal on former President Donald Trump’s political landscape. The conversation navigates through the complexities of the scandal, its impact on Trump’s base, and the broader implications for American politics.

1. Introduction to the Epstein Scandal and Its Significance

Sam Stein opens the discussion by highlighting the pervasive nature of the Epstein scandal and its potential to overshadow Trump’s political maneuvers. He references their colleague Will Sommer’s analysis, which categorizes the Epstein narrative into five factions, suggesting that while some factions might align with Trump and dismiss the scandal, others could view it as a significant impediment.

Notable Quote:

Sam Stein [01:21]: "Our colleague Will Sommer had about five factions of the Epstein universe and how they're approaching Trump... he thinks some people are going to agree with Trump and just move on."

2. Bill Kristol’s Assessment of the Scandal’s Impact

Bill Kristol concurs with Stein’s concerns, emphasizing that the Epstein scandal is more consequential than many initially perceived. He references a recent Cabinet meeting where humor about Trump was prevalent, but he foresaw the scandal escalating into a genuine problem for Trump's support base.

Notable Quote:

Bill Kristol [02:10]: "I thought this could be more of a problem. And it did pick become a problem with his base... And so that's been the saga."

3. The Charlie Kirk Incident and MAGA Faction Dynamics

The conversation shifts to Charlie Kirk’s response to the scandal. Kristol describes how Kirk, initially alarmed by Epstein revelations, received guidance—presumably from Trump—to downplay the issue, leading to tension within the MAGA faction.

Notable Quote:

Bill Kristol [02:36]: "Charlie Kirk... started off by saying, I'm very worried about this, Epstein... Trump called him Saturday morning... Kirk saying, we've just got to move on."

4. Historical Parallel: Obama’s Birtherism and Media Distraction

Kristol draws a parallel between the current Epstein situation and the birtherism controversy during Obama’s presidency. He illustrates how Trump adeptly diverted media attention by escalating the demands for Obama’s birth records, thereby diminishing the scandal’s impact.

Notable Quote:

Bill Kristol [02:44]: "Trump.......... up the ante... I think that's probably what's going to happen here."

5. Democratic Response and Strategic Opportunities

Kristol explores the Democratic Party's potential strategies in addressing the Epstein scandal. He suggests that if Democrats choose to condemn Epstein unequivocally while distancing themselves from MAGA conspiracy theories, they could strengthen their position as anti-establishment reformers. This approach could appeal to moderate Democrats seeking both governance and systemic change.

Notable Quote:

Bill Kristol [05:25]: "They have to decide... if Democrats are willing to say the whole Epstein thing is kind of a disgrace... it would be an interesting future for the Democrats."

6. The Challenge of Conspiracy Theories in Political Discourse

Sam Stein raises concerns about the proliferation of conspiracy theories related to Epstein, noting the difficulty in countering such narratives. He posits that Trump might navigate this by continuously introducing new stories, thereby diverting public attention from the central scandal.

Notable Quote:

Sam Stein [03:41]: "The issue with a conspiracy theory is you can't tell people, oh, it's not true... you can distract them into something else."

7. Trump’s Defensive Maneuvers and Public Perception

Kristol and Stein discuss Trump’s reactions to the scandal, including his attempts to cast doubt on the legitimacy of evidence and his shift towards blaming opponents. Kristol observes that Trump’s instinct is to deflect blame, a tactic he has employed in previous controversies.

Notable Quote:

Bill Kristol [16:15]: "Don't you think the Saturday tweet, Truth Social, where he starts screaming about how these could have been fake... shows a kind of desperation."

8. The Broader Implications for Trump’s Political Future

The dialogue concludes with reflections on how the Epstein scandal, fueled by both substantive issues and conspiracy-laden narratives, poses a unique challenge for Trump compared to typical political attacks. While Trump has historically weathered various scandals, the depth and grotesqueness of the Epstein case, combined with its entanglement with his base, could have lasting impacts on his political viability.

Notable Quote:

Bill Kristol [15:35]: "I think he's pretty good at controlling America. But this is a trickier thing for Trump to handle than a typical attack by Democrats."

Conclusion

Sam Stein and Bill Kristol provide a nuanced analysis of the Epstein scandal’s enduring effect on Donald Trump’s political standing. They explore the interplay between scandal management, conspiracy theories, and partisan dynamics, offering insights into potential future trajectories for both Trump and the Democratic Party. The conversation underscores the complexity of navigating political scandals in an era dominated by misinformation and deeply entrenched partisan divisions.

Notable Moments with Timestamps:

• [02:10] Kristol anticipates the Epstein scandal becoming a significant issue for Trump’s base.
• [02:44] Comparison of Epstein scandal management to Obama’s birtherism.
• [05:25] Discussion on Democratic strategies to leverage the scandal.
• [16:15] Analysis of Trump’s defensive responses to emerging evidence.

This episode of "Bulwark Takes" offers a comprehensive exploration of one of the most persistent and contentious political scandals of recent years, providing listeners with a deeper understanding of its multifaceted impact on American politics.