Tim Miller (2:31)

I didn't.

Donald Trump (2:31)

I have a lot of things I'm doing and a lot of things I know. I don't know. You mentioned two names. I'm sure they're fine. I'm sure they're fine. Otherwise, it would have been major headlines.

Tim Miller (2:41)

I thought that clip was interesting mostly just because how cucked he was by Elon. I mean, Elon calls him a pedo. Elon called him a pedo. But maybe Trump feels like he needs the money. Maybe Trump feels like he needs the ex support. But no, he doesn't. That's not. That's not the Trump I know. He doesn't take an opportunity to swap back at Elon. I thought that was noteworthy.

Sam Stein (3:05)

Good point. I hadn't thought about it in those. In that terms. He could have easily just said, you're.

Tim Miller (3:10)

Not a petty like me is why. You know, I'm petty.

Sam Stein (3:14)

This extends from your. Our conversation about youth sports. He could have. Yeah, he could have been like, boy, Elon was in there a lot. You know, what's he doing there? Why does he want to party so hard? But he didn't take that opportunity. You know, I don't know if we're gonna play. We probably could, but there's another opportunity. He just didn't swing out, which was when they asked him about Bill Clinton, and he was just like, you know, I always like that guy. We could play that. Do we have that clip? Because we could play that clip if we wanted to.

Tim Miller (3:41)

Let's play it.

Sam Stein (3:42)

Okay.

Kaitlan Collins (3:43)

Today we heard that the Clinton set deposition dates to testify before the House Oversight Committee. Any reaction to that in relation to the.

Donald Trump (3:50)

I think it's a shame, to be honest. I always liked him. Her.

Tim Miller (3:55)

Yeah.

Donald Trump (3:56)

She's a very capable woman. She was better in debating than some of the other people, I will tell you that. She was smarter. Smart woman. I hate to say it, in many ways.

Tim Miller (4:05)

Here's my. I have a take on this because I was looking. I was doing a deep dive on the original. One of the files that was just released, the original indictment of Epstein in 07.

Sam Stein (4:17)

Before Acosta won.

Tim Miller (4:18)

Yeah, before Acosta watered it down.

Donald Trump (4:21)

Okay.

Sam Stein (4:21)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tim Miller (4:21)

And you're going through it, and it's just there's. There are some redactions like that are like, okay, well, there are too many people redacted. It can't just be Jeffrey and Ghislaine. There has to be others. And then there's another email that was just popping around, somebody to Jeffrey, thank you for a fun night. Your littlest girl was a little naughty. And that's. I know, disgusting. And that's redacted, whoever sent that email. And I just think that at this point, Trump, either out of just the fact that he, like, always sides with the. The male sexual predator, or out of some sort of solidarity with the other people that are in the Epstein files doing gross stuff for some reason, I do think he's decided his best position here is to just totally side with all the creeps.

Sam Stein (5:09)

Well, so there's one. The most generous way probably to think about it is. And I don't think this. This is not how I think about it. You could look at this and say he realized this is just horrible stuff for him and all he wants to do. All he wants to do is just move off from it. Like, he just doesn't want to talk about. He wants to get out of the news cycle. In fact, he was pretty explicit. He was like, ah, well, you know, I think we can move on to other stories now. So that's the most generous. The other way to look at it is the way you were talking about, which is that this is his world or this was his world. He lived in this world. He knew these people. He cavorted with Epstein, we know this because it's now public record, but there's also, like, little subtle clues. I don't know if you caught this the other day, where he caught himself referring to him as Jeffrey, not Jeffrey Epstein. He's like, you know, it's like, oh, you're on a first name basis. And so he knows these people. He's been with these people. They are people who he socialized with a weird, very odd stratosphere of rich and famous. And maybe part of him just, you know, recognizes that, you know, he was. He was once of that world. And he has kind of like a weird affinity for him. And that would be your interpretation.

Tim Miller (6:15)

I mean, or he's actively covering up his own behavior as well. Like, I mean, I think that that's all.

Sam Stein (6:20)

That's the thing. We don't know what we don't know. Like, there's so many files.

Tim Miller (6:24)

I just keep coming back to, like, I have this little sort of North Star here, which is that Trump, in his entire life has demonstrated no empathy for anyone. Like, I literally, like, Renee Goode gets killed by one of his agents. And the only thing that he can say is, like, I hear his dad's a fan. Her dad was a fan of mine.

Sam Stein (6:40)

Ye.

Tim Miller (6:41)

And so he has no ability to do empathy except for old Men accused of sexual assault. And then all of a sudden, you do see him over and over again being like, ah, he's a good guy. He's a good. And so I think that there's, like, a blanket. Like, he sees the men who are accused of sexual assault as being like his compatriots that he has to defend no matter what. I don't think it's that weird. I think it's. I think it's psychological. Well, it's like. It's weird, but it's sensible. Like, it's psychologically logical. Like, as somebody who has done this. A lot of gross stuff with women, he wants the benefit of the doubt, so he wants to give everybody else the benefit of the doubt.

Sam Stein (7:19)

I feel like you don't have it, but you probably have earned a psychology degree at this point from just how much you psychoanalyze Trump. You're very good at it.

Tim Miller (7:26)

Thank you. Yeah, you know, I'm an amateur. I could have been a life coach. I could have been a shrink. I think I would like to have been a shrink. That would have been a good side job for me. Okay. It continues to get worse with Caitlin, though. Things escalate. Let's go to the next exchange between Caitlin and Trump.

Kaitlan Collins (7:43)

A lot of women who are survivors of Epstein's are unhappy with those redactions that came out. Some of them, entire witness interviews are totally blacked out. Do you think that they should be more transparent?

Donald Trump (7:52)

The fact that they thought they released too much? You know, I heard that. And you tell me something else. I think it's really time for the country to get onto something else now that nothing came out about me other than it was a conspiracy against me, literally by Epstein and other people. But I think it's time now for the country to maybe get onto something else.

Kaitlan Collins (8:16)

What would you say to people, Health.

Donald Trump (8:17)

Care, something that people care about? You know, what do you say?

Kaitlan Collins (8:22)

What would you say to the survivors?

Donald Trump (8:24)

You are the worst reporter no one to see. CNN has no ratings because of people like you. You know, she's a young woman. I don't think I've ever seen you smile. I've known you for 10 years. I don't think I've ever seen a smile on your face. You know why you're not smiling? Because you know you're not telling the truth, and you're. You're a very dishonest organization, and they should be ashamed of you.

Tim Miller (8:47)

Smile, woman. All right, Sam, I have a lot of thoughts, but why don't you go first?

Sam Stein (8:52)

I mean, it's, first of all, he's, he does this to female reporters. Female reporters, okay. It's gross. But it's not unexpected at this point. Like, we all know this is who he is. Okay. What really got me was two parts to this. One is there's a number of female senators holding MAGA caps behind him. You can't see them in that clip. And they're just sort of sitting there, you know, including Susan Collins. Including Susan Collins. And they don't, you know, I guess they, they're not going to speak up, but it's pretty grotesque. Bulwark Takes is sponsored by Zocd. We all know health issues don't follow a 9 to 5 schedule. With Zocdoc. Having no time to book a doctor's appointment is actually no problem at all. So let's say you don't have time for yourself until 11pm or cut your finger making a midnight snack or you tweak your back on the dance floor at a family wedding or a doom scroll and panic about your symptoms at 3am Been there. Or you binge watch a medical drama and you unlock a new health fear. Definitely been there. Go to Zocdoc anytime, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and find a doctor you love to make your health plan happen. Yep. Even if it's way after hours. ZocDoc is a free app and website that helps you find and book high quality in network doctors so you can find someone you love. We're talking about booking in network appointments with more than 150,000 providers across all 50 states. Whether you're looking for dermatology, dentistry, primary care, eye Care, or one of the other 200 plus specialists offered on Zocdoc, you can easily search by specialty or by symptom to build the care team that's right for you. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to zocdoc.com bulwarktakes to find and instantly book a doctor that you love today. That's z o c doc.com bulwarktakes zocdoc.com bulwarktakes thanks Zocdoc for sponsoring this message. Second thing where I'm really upset is with the rest of the White House Correspondence association in this case. Now, I don't think people have been in these situations. So just let me tell you, it is crammed. There's tons of reporters there. They all have mics. They all want to get a question in. You know, you have a set period of time. Kaitlan Collins is asking a number of follow up questions. So there's probably some sort of like, hey, I want my turn. Right, I get it. But when the President of the United States does that and when he insults one of your colleagues, you have an obligation. Because you're part of an institution, which is the White House Correspondent association, you have an obligation to stand up for your colleague. And you could do that in one of two ways. You can say, no, she smiles, she's a great colleague. You shouldn't talk to her like that. No one's going to do that because it's the President. But there is another way to do it, which is to say you're. You're a special case. The other way to do it is to say, sir, let her finish your question or I'm not going. Or say, take your turn. Say, actually let her finish her question or follow up on her question. Don't go and divert to the next fucking question. Like, make them answer the question. You are a collective unit. The only way this works as the press is if you operate collectively. It is a collective action problem that's hurting our press corps. And when you see that happen, you have to act in that moment collectively to hold the President accountable and ask those questions. And they just don't do it. Time and time again. It really pisses me off.

Tim Miller (12:21)

I mean, think about all of the other times that he's insulted the other women. And in no other situation would you allow this. I would think most people, most people who have any integrity. Let's go back to our hypothetical youth sports situation. Why do we have a higher bar for the President than we would for a youth sports coach coaching girls basketball team? If the other coach or the ref, you know, starts screaming at one of my girls and. Or starts saying, do you not ever smile like, or like, or like, what's your problem? Or like, are you. You know what I mean? Obviously it's a child versus an adult. But like, you understand the situation. Like, you would stand up for a colleague or somebody that you're working with in that situation and say, what are you doing? Like that that's totally inappropriate. Like, that is totally inappropriate. I'm sorry, I don't care that just because you're the President of the United States doesn't mean you get to be a bastard in front of everybody without any a program.

Sam Stein (13:14)

It's also tactical too, right? This is what the White House does and this is what Caroline Levitt does at the briefing. If they don't like a question, they shoot down the reporter, often in personal terms, they call him fake. And then they quickly go to the next person in the room to get off of that question that they don't like. And all it would take is for the next person who's called upon to say, actually, I'm going to ask her question, or, actually, why don't I cede back the time to her? And they never do it. They never, ever do it. And I would like to see just once, just once try it, just say, you know what? I'm gonna give it back to her.

Tim Miller (13:52)

Well, another thing we could do while we're spitballing next time it happens in that room. Trump has always been happy to pass the mic. He doesn't always wanna deal with answers from the fake news. Could have followed up right there and said, hey, Senator Susan Collins, what do you think about the fact that the President just said that Kaitlan Collins doesn't smile and like that C is fake news, and that he doesn't want to answer her questions about the Epstein files? Do you have anything to say about that? That's. That's allowed.

Mike Johnson (14:16)

I.

Tim Miller (14:16)

Look, I just think that, like, he. I felt this way back when I was a Republican strategist on the same side. It took a While in the 2016 campaign for everybody to catch up to this, and by the time people caught up to it, it was too late. It's like he wants to play by a different set of rules and everybody else wants to play by the same rules. And I just, I think that you can be a little creative, you know, it doesn't mean you have to be. You got to stoop to his level. Doesn't mean you have to be a bastard. But it's just like, there's no rule that says you can't ask one of the female senators to follow up on that. You could do that.

Sam Stein (14:43)

The one way this does fall apart is that he's filled the room with a bunch of sycophants and people from Gateway Pundit who are going to ask ridiculous questions. So that does create complications, but it doesn't mean it's insurmountable. And, yeah, you do have to get creative. You just have to get creative with it.

Tim Miller (14:58)

Yeah, his behavior is appalling, but we knew that.

Sam Stein (15:02)

It really is appalling. It really is appalling. Why do we tolerate that he treats, he treats a reporter just like that. I mean, it's just grotesque.

Tim Miller (15:09)

You wouldn't tell her in any, like, literally in any other situation. Like, if my kid was in a school and the School principal was talking to a teacher. Like that. I would say, awesome, we need to get. We're getting out of the school. Like, what? Like, that's the model that you're setting. Like. Or if you're in a work center, if you're at a bulwark office, like, somebody talk to someone. You know what I mean? Like, you would never do that. It's totally appalling and appropriate. And. And I do think that it's worth mentioning also that the questioning was about the way in which powerful men abuse young women. And then as a response to that question, Trump's like, you're a young woman. You don't smile enough. I just think that's revealing in a sense. All right, I wanna move on to one other thing that happened today that's related to all this. Trump was also asked about the nonsense to nationalize elections and all that. And we've come to expect this from Trump. And I think we've covered this a lot on the chann, and we want to be vigilant about this. I think it's pretty noteworthy, though, how Mike Johnson talked about it. Yes, the speaker of the House, because that is a change. You know, usually what you've. You've had, which is not a good place to be, but you have Trump kind of popping off. Then you have, like, the Republicans on the Hill being like, I didn't see that. Or, you know, I think what he meant was this. And that's bad in its own way, but it's not as bad as starting to dip your toe into the pool of, no, I'm with them. And that's what we got from Mike Johnson today. Let's watch that.

Mike Johnson (16:34)

In our system, the states have been in charge of administering their elections. What you're hearing from the President is his frustration about the lack of some of the blue states, frankly, of enforcing these things and making sure that they are free and fair elections. We had three House Republican candidates who were ahead on election day in the last election cycle. And every time a new tranche of ballots came in, they just magically whittled away until their leads were lost. It looks on its face to be fraudulent. Can I prove that? No.

Sam Stein (17:03)

Can I prove that? Nah, Nah. Just gonna throw it out there, though.

Tim Miller (17:08)

It's fraudulent. And these magical ballots, I mean, this is really explicable. You know, more ballots come in. Oftentimes it's the mail ballots that come in later because they take longer because it's the mail. And Democrats vote more in the mail. And so like, Like, There are, there are explanations for this. It is explicable. Like you could just ask somebody who's an expert about this or who knows the district who understands. So like this is, this is a knowable thing. He' pretending not to know. But the reason why it's so alarming to me. I mean, he's a little twerp, I guess I'd say first. But the reason why it's alarming is that the thing that has worried me most, I feel like folks who kind of just watch this casually and are just not that because followers are like, their concern is like, oh, they'll cancel the elections or they'll screw with them on the front end and who knows, they'll try to do. But I think that that risk is less than the risk of Mike Johnson on the back end deciding, I'm not going to seat these guys because we want to wait and see about these mail ballots. We're not sure we're going to litigate. It seems like fraud. Can't prove it, but I don't think I can seat anybody until whatever we go through some, you know, cockamamie legal process. Right. And maybe it's an attempt to steal, maybe it's just an attempt to stall by a couple more months before the Democrats get the gavel. That is to me, I think the most like likely shenanigan. Now, now that the redistricting gambit failed.

Sam Stein (18:35)

I mean, it's an easy saying that.

Tim Miller (18:37)

Makes it even a little bit more likely in my head.

Sam Stein (18:39)

Just paint a picture, right? California's got all these ballots coming in. Let's, let's. First of all, I want to just level set. He's totally wrong, right? Like California. Yes, it does more ballots come in, it tends to go more blue male ballots. The opposite is true in Arizona where they have what's called the blue mirage, where it looks like the, you know, the, you know, remember Ruben Gallego had a big lead over Kerry Lake and it dwindled and everyone's like, whoa, is he gonna hold on? Okay, so he's wrong. But the scenario you paint is, it's pretty. I mean, doesn't seem far fetched, right? Where you have a Trump Justice Department launching lawsuits and investigations into balloting in blue states, drawing out legislation or sorry, litigation. And the speaker of the House saying, well, we can't seek these people because there's too much unknown, there's too much ambiguity about what happened. There's too many questions left unanswered. Now remember Mike Johnson led the amicus brief from the state of Texas seeking to overturn Biden's win in 2020. So he has history of getting involved in this stuff. And I thought his comments today were some of the more irresponsible comments from a House speaker that you could possibly get. He is directly undermining faith in the integrity of our elections, doing so while openly admitting he has no evidence, just that it feels funny to him. I mean, think about that. Think about how reckless that is. It's unbelievable that he would do something like that. And I am. I am worried. I'm obviously you should be worried as Trump's talking about nationalizing elections and all that stuff, but to have that one, two punch where you had the Justice Department clearly, at the behest of the president, doing all this stuff and the speaker of the House who was in charge of seating members, saying, well, we. I believe in this stuff, you end up with a very, very bad combination.

Donald Trump (20:22)

Yeah.

Tim Miller (20:23)

I gotta say, Gavin did a good job of combating their first gambit with the redistricting. He deserves props for that. The California ballot counting thing, though, is a nightmare. And people have been screaming, this is.

Sam Stein (20:35)

10 months to deal with it.

Tim Miller (20:35)

Yeah, yeah. They've been screaming this for their jobs for a long time. You know, they shouldn't have to change their ballot the way that they tally votes, because the other side is going to screw with them. On the other hand, in a first world country, like, people should be able to count their ballots at night. Okay, they count their ballots.

Sam Stein (20:52)

No, it's a good point. And it's a good topic, maybe for Lauren Egan, for opposition. Like, what is California going to do in advance in November to make sure that this hypothetical scenario that we're just painting doesn't happen?

Tim Miller (21:03)

All right, well, there you go. It's a good assignment. Assignment editor. You're welcome. Lauren Egan. That's Sam Stein. He's the managing director. He does the assignments like that. I'm Tim Miller. I just pop off. Let's subscribe to the feed. Will you tell your friends I was on with Brian Tyler Cohen the other day. Dude has like 5 million subscribers. I was feeling a little bit of subscriber jealousy and envy. Envy?

Sam Stein (21:27)

Yeah, we need to up it. People need to really get on it and subscribe. This is. This is enough. We've been too patient.

Tim Miller (21:33)

Appreciate you. All right, we'll see you all later.

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