Bulwark Takes: Trump's Honduras Pardon Looks Worse and Worse

Date: December 2, 2025
Host: Sam Stein
Guest: Will Salatin

Overview

In this episode, Sam Stein and Will Salatin dig into Donald Trump’s controversial decision to pardon former Honduran president Juan Orlando Hernández. Hernández, convicted in the U.S. for running a vast drug smuggling operation in collaboration with notorious cartel leaders, was unexpectedly granted a "full and complete pardon" by Trump over the Thanksgiving holiday. The conversation centers on the lack of rational justification for the pardon, the administration’s incoherent logic given its parallel "war on drugs" in the Caribbean, and what this saga reveals about Trump’s motivations and worldview.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Trump’s Unexpected Pardon of Juan Orlando Hernández

[01:00–02:48]

• Trump announced a "full and complete pardon" for Hernández, recently convicted in the U.S. for conspiring to import cocaine, colluding with El Chapo, and using the Honduran military to aid his criminal activities (01:00).
• The pardon came out of nowhere, with little public explanation or preparation.

Quote:

"Trump just announces. I mean, really out of nowhere, he just announces that he's going to give the guy a pardon."
— Sam Stein [01:35]

• When asked about the pardon, Trump claimed Hondurans believed Hernández was “set up” by the Biden administration and compared the prosecution to political targeting.
• Trump’s apparent justification: Prosecuting presidents for crimes is wrong, likening Hernández’s conviction to Trump’s own legal troubles (02:24).

2. Debunking the “Biden Lawfare” Narrative

[02:53–06:41]

• Will and Sam point out that the investigation into Hernández began during Trump’s first term, not Biden’s presidency, contrary to Trump’s narrative.
• The U.S. Assistant Attorney who prosecuted Hernández’s brother was Emil Bove, a Trump ally later rewarded with administration roles, undermining claims of a Biden conspiracy (04:32–06:09).

Quote:

"The prosecution started under Donald Trump. So that, that alone is sort of silly."
— Sam Stein [04:39]

• Will notes Trump seems unaware of these facts, suggesting no proper vetting occurred before the pardon.

3. White House Incoherence and Use of the "Magic Words"

[09:17–11:43]

• Press Secretary Caroline Levitt echoed Trump’s talking points, insisting Hernández was a victim of “Biden prosecution” and denied due process, even though the timeline doesn’t match.
• Will exposes the inconsistency: Levitt claimed Hernández’s lawyer had only three weeks to prepare for trial, but the prosecution spanned years, much dating to Trump’s first term (10:18).

Quote:

"All she has to do is repeat the magic words. Biden. Biden leftist. Biden Harris."
— Will Salatin [11:20]

• The hosts argue that simply labeling something as "Biden lawfare" is often enough to sway Trump.

4. The Pattern of Presidential Sympathy and Double Standards

[11:43–12:32]

• The episode explores Trump’s recurring sympathy for controversial international figures accused or convicted of crimes, especially former leaders.
• Notably, Roger Stone had reportedly lobbied for Hernández, adding another inside connection.

5. Real-World Consequences for U.S. Policy

[12:32–15:42]

• Sam underscores the larger problem: By pardoning a major drug kingpin while waging an aggressive military campaign against low-level smugglers, the White House sends an incoherent message.
• Quoting Mike Vigil, former DEA chief of international operations, they discuss how this undermines the credibility and reputation of U.S. anti-narcotics efforts.

Quote:

"This action would be nothing short of catastrophic and would destroy the credibility of the US in the international community."
— Mike Vigil (quoted by Sam Stein) [13:18]

• Will adds a dark theory: Eliminating small-time smugglers (even lethally) prevents them from testifying against kingpins, who are now even getting pardons. This system seems engineered to let big fish escape justice (14:08–15:42).

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Will on the real reason for the pardon:

  "The friends of this former president of Honduras are connected with the friends of Donald Trump...through Roger Stone and some other people clearly got to Trump and told him to pardon this guy."
  [03:12]

• Sam highlighting the absurdity of the White House logic:

  "So under Trump's...argument, Bovey was in on some sort of lawfare prosecution of this scheme to entrap the Honduran president. It makes no sense whatsoever."
  [05:09]

• On the testimony against Hernández:

  "In the New York Times story about this...one accused co-conspirator was killed in a Honduran prison to protect the president, according to court documents."
  — Will Salatin [14:26]

Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:00–02:48] — Trump’s pardon announcement & rationale
• [04:32–06:41] — Origin of Hernández case and debunking Trump's narrative
• [09:17–11:43] — Caroline Levitt’s defense & recurring "lawfare" talking point
• [12:32–15:42] — Consequences for U.S. anti-drug policy and "dark" implications

Tone and Style Notes

• The episode is clear, analytical, and often sardonic, particularly as the hosts unpack the administration's justifications.
• Both Sam and Will combine sharp fact-checking with candid exasperation over the pardon’s logic and implications.

This summary provides a thorough guide to the episode’s content, its structure, and the perspectives of the hosts for those who wish to understand the significance of Trump’s pardon of Hernández.