Trump's Lies Finally Catch Up to Him Over Epstein Files

Summary

Bulwark Takes: Summary of "Trump's Lies Finally Catch Up to Him Over Epstein Files"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Bulwark Takes
• Host/Author: The Bulwark
• Episode: Trump's Lies Finally Catch Up to Him Over Epstein Files
• Release Date: February 27, 2025

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Introduction

In the February 27, 2025 episode of Bulwark Takes, host Tim Miller delves into the latest developments surrounding former President Donald Trump and the long-standing controversies linked to Jeffrey Epstein. The episode examines recent actions by right-wing influencers, the government's handling of Epstein-related files, and the broader implications for political discourse in the United States.

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Context and Background

[01:56] Tim Miller opens the discussion by introducing the central topic: a group exiting the White House holding binders labeled "Epstein Files." These binders, claimed by sources like D.C. Drano and Libs of TikTok, are purported to contain incriminating information about Epstein's network of abused women. However, Tim quickly labels these individuals as "right-wing conspiracy mongers," setting a critical tone for the analysis.

[02:53] Sam Stein invites Andrew Egger, referred to as the "Epstein expert," to provide a deeper understanding of the situation.

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Recent Event: Release of Epstein Binders

[03:23] Andrew Egger explains the phenomenon as part of a broader conspiracy theory within the MAGA movement. He states:

"The Epstein files is just how that conspiracy theory is basically known. ... it's basically like, you know, they need to be released, they need to be found out, they need to be released."

Egger highlights that the release of these binders is a strategic move to feed the conspiratorial narratives that suggest a vast, hidden network of high-profile individuals involved in illicit activities, with Epstein as a central figure.

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Analysis of Online Reaction

[04:50] Tim Miller raises concerns about the feasibility of the "Epstein files" being contained within a single binder, noting the extensive and overlapping court cases over decades. He references his interview with Julie K. Brown of the Miami Herald, emphasizing that Epstein did operate a sex ring:

"Elements of this were not conspiracies. Right. He did run a sex ring."

[05:46] Sam Stein explains that within online circles, "the files" are perceived as a secret list of Epstein's associates that have yet to be made public. Despite the availability of public information like flight logs, the belief persists that more damning evidence exists and is being withheld.

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Julie K. Brown's Reporting

Tim references Julie K. Brown's critical perspective on the recent developments:

"Those involved in the Jeffrey Epstein case for two decades, fear of this case and Epstein's victims are being used for political purposes. This isn't a news story. It's a publicity stunt."

Brown argues that the symbolic release of "Epstein files" serves political agendas rather than advancing genuine investigative journalism, thereby trivializing the trauma of Epstein's victims.

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Government and Media Maneuvers

[07:55] Tim Miller discusses the actions of Pam Bondi, the Attorney General, who released a letter alleging that the FBI is not cooperating in providing Epstein-related documents. This letter was sent to Betty Johnson of Turning Point USA, adding another layer of political maneuvering.

[08:35] Sam Stein highlights the performative aspects of the situation, noting that official statements intended to assert the release of the Epstein files were mere 'rickrolls'—a classic internet prank where links deceptively lead to the song "Never Gonna Give You Up" by Rick Astley. This tactic undermines the credibility of the claims and exposes the farcical nature of the attempts to bolster conspiracy theories.

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Implications for Trump and the MAGA Movement

[10:00] Andrew Egger elaborates on the expectations of Trump’s base:

"They have a big part of their base that is essentially... have essentially convinced themselves that the Epstein thing will not have been fully brought to light until people like Barack Obama and Oprah Winfrey and George Clooney are, like, revealed and Hillary Clinton are revealed to be, like, satanic pedophiles."

This statement underscores the depth of belief in unfounded conspiracy theories among certain factions, expecting eventual exposure of high-profile figures in heinous activities.

[11:17] Sam Stein and [11:23] Andrew Egger further discuss Trump's historical connections to Epstein, noting inconsistencies such as Trump's alleged ban of Epstein from Mar-a-Lago in 2007, which contradicts claims of close association.

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Administration's Strategy and Base Engagement

[14:07] Sam Stein interprets the administration's actions as deliberate efforts to "throw chum in the water" for conspiracists. By occasionally releasing minimal and often misleading information, officials keep the conspiratorial base engaged without providing substantive evidence that could disprove their beliefs.

"Pam Bondi... knows that she has to throw them a little chum."

This strategy ensures continuous engagement from conspiracy-minded individuals, reinforcing their narratives without addressing the core issues.

[16:03] Tim Miller reflects on the broader strategy, positing that the administration is fostering a constant cycle of revelations—real or fabricated—to maintain the attention and support of a base that thrives on perceived hidden truths.

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Final Thoughts and Conclusions

The episode concludes with a consensus among the hosts that the release of the supposed "Epstein files" is a calculated move to satisfy a base addicted to conspiracy theories. They emphasize the disrespect such actions show toward Epstein's victims and critique the administration's strategy of perpetuating unfounded claims for political gain.

[16:39] Andrew Egger encapsulates the situation:

"It's not meaningful in that way but it's not, it's not like it's distracting them from the other stuff they would like rather be paying attention to. That's what they want out of the administration and that's why they're giving it to them."

[17:43] Tim Miller wraps up by urging listeners to remain vigilant and critical of such maneuvers, which serve more to manipulate public perception than to advance genuine accountability.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Andrew Egger [03:23]: "The Epstein files is just how that conspiracy theory is basically known. ... they need to be released."

• Julie K. Brown's Insight [12:06]: Highlights the misuse of victims' suffering for political theatrics.

• Sam Stein [14:07]: "Pam Bondi... knows that she has to throw them a little chum."

• Andrew Egger [16:39]: "That's what they want out of the administration and that's why they're giving it to them."

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Conclusion

In this episode, Bulwark Takes critically examines the intersection of political maneuvering and conspiracy theories surrounding Jeffrey Epstein. Through incisive analysis and expert insights, the hosts reveal how these strategies serve to manipulate and engage a specific voter base, all while sidestepping meaningful accountability and respect for victims. The discussion underscores the challenges in navigating political narratives in an era rife with misinformation and deeply entrenched conspiratorial beliefs.

Transcript

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[Tim Miller]

Tim Miller from the Bulwark. I'm here with Managing Editor Sam Stein and Andrew Egger who writes our morning newsletter and is taping from one of those like studios where you got your pictures with your family as a child. Like a family photo is like in.

[Sam Stein]

The oddly similar plant though.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Anyway, it's good to see you guys. It's unclear if we're in a real Society right now. But here's something that happened today. Pictures. Here is a group leaving the White House with binders that say Epstein files binders full of raped women. I guess the people holding the binders, DC Drano, Libs of TikTok, these people don't have real names. And Liz Wheeler, they are right wing conspiracy mongers. Lots has been happening as fallout to this. It's been challenging for me to monitor that, but luckily we've got Andrew and Sam here to give us the details. What is happening on the Internet.

[Sam Stein]

Let me kick it to of our Epstein expert, Andrew.

[Andrew Egger]

Oh yeah. Oh, thank you. Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

These are your friends, right? Didn't you and D.C. drano used to. Used to hang at Hillsdale?

[Andrew Egger]

Absolutely not. No. That's not a real one. Although one of the other guys you did not mention who was also, who also received a binder of his own was, was Mike Cernovich. He's just another one of these. Exactly. The gorilla mindset man who's been hanging out in the White House press.

[Sam Stein]

I think he was with Pete Heath, right?

[Andrew Egger]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

So what is happening, Andrew? Could you explain to me what's happening?

[Andrew Egger]

Okay, yeah. So this is like a long standing kind of like red meat thing on the like very, very far conspiracy fringe of, of the MAGA movement is. I mean it's the whole Epstein didn't kill himself thing. It's the whole. There's a big cover up of. Of there's this longstanding basically like kind of meme on the more conspiratorial fringe side of the MAGA movement that Jeffrey Epstein didn't kill himself, that he is this kind of patsy for. For like this international ring of pedophiles and rapists in high places and that the government is sitting on a bunch of information concerning all of that. It's this, the Epstein files is just how that conspiracy theory is basically known. And there's this long standing kind of long running thing. It's sort of connected to QAnon, sort of connected to a lot of these other kind of fringe, some more Trumpy, some not quite so Trumpy movements online where it's basically like, you know, they need to be released, they need to be found out, they need to be released. And a lot of times Trump has been like throwing red meat to these people or different influencers have been throwing red meat to these people for a long time. And so I guess this today was just the latest in a series of those kinds of stunts where they invited a bunch of MAGA influencer type people. To the White House and then paraded them out past the press carrying these binders. But it all kind of instantly fell apart and self destructed and became super weird online, which I guess maybe Sam wants to talk about.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, Sam. Well, I guess before we get to how it's self destructed online, I mean, I just, as a human in the world and familiar with Jeffrey Epstein, I mean, elements of this were not conspiracies. Right. He did run a sex ring. I interviewed Julie Brown of the Miami Herald, who was one of the people that uncovered a lot of this a while back, a reporter. And so one of the just questions I have looking at the binders is like, the Jeffrey Epstein files could not fit in like a single three ring binder that you would, you would give your child that is going to kindergarten. You can't like fit the Epstein files in a Trapper Keeper. I mean, there are many, many court cases over many decades, overlapping.

[Sam Stein]

I think the files is, in the online world, synonymous with some secret list of people who actually were with Jeffrey Epstein that we don't yet have access to. Keep in mind, we do know the flight logs, those have been made public.

[Tim Miller]

Yep.

[Sam Stein]

There's elements of his diary that have been made public. There's been lists of people who have, you know, had relations with the guy. Donald Trump's on the list. Bill Clinton's on the list. Like, you know, there's lots of. It's. It's out there. You know, to Andrew's point, there's always this sort of nefarious idea that like, well, there's some actual, like, real list out there. And if it's exposed, the whole system's gonna come crashing down. And probably the, and probably the Jews are the ones who are responsible for keeping it.

[Tim Miller]

You know, I've had several texts from people after the Julie Brown interview I did about how I under. I did not give enough emphasis to the idea that Epstein was a Jew, is. Was part of the. A Jewish spy.

[Sam Stein]

My people are all controlling. Just. Just to be clear, we are got it, but we don't want to talk about that. So anyways, today happens. And first of all, I didn't really understand why this suddenly like, blew up. And it had to happen today, but apparently it had to happen today. And Pam Bondi was just like, I'm gonna bring in some people. She, she previewed last night on Jesse Waters. She's like, nope, new breaking news. I'm gonna release some stuff tomorrow. And everyone's like, okay, what are you releasing? So they invited all these influencers down, they all walked out holding these weird binders. And then people who, like, are even more into this and care a lot about this were like, wait a second. That's not, like, the stuff we wanted. And so Representative Anna Apollina Luna was like, hold up. This is not the stuff I thought we were gonna get. That's not right. Like, we wanted more stuff. And then Pam Bondi's office released a letter to Betty Johnson, and in it, they said, the FBI is stonewalling our requests for all the files. And there's.

[Tim Miller]

To Benny Johnson.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, he broke the letter.

[Tim Miller]

Okay. All right. So they leaked a letter to Benny Johnson of Turning Point, USA fame, saying that.

[Sam Stein]

Saying that they weren't getting cooperation from elements of the FBI. And she had written Cash Patel to tell Cash that he needs to get on the people at the FBI to give her all the information. And then Laura Loomer couldn't.

[Tim Miller]

I'm sorry, before I get to Laura Loomer couldn't. Couldn't Cash. And. And. And shouldn't they afford this? Couldn't Pam and Cash have, like, met? Like, doesn't Cash work for him? Why is she sending out a press release?

[Sam Stein]

We're also in week two.

[Tim Miller]

Like, good name. Like, had a meeting.

[Sam Stein]

Pick up the phone. Pick up the fucking phone.

[Andrew Egger]

Here's kind of the.

[Sam Stein]

Here's kind of the problem.

[Tim Miller]

Hold on. I'm on a roll.

[Sam Stein]

Hold on. Then Laura Loomer gets in, and she's like, there are no Epstein files. Like, there's nothing here. And then the House Judiciary Committee, the Republican one, which is like the trolliest of the trollsters.

[Tim Miller]

They put out what you want at the Judiciary Committee.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah. They put out a tweet, be like, look, the Epstein files have been released. They put a tiny URL, and lo and behold, it's Rickroll. And so, I don't know.

[Tim Miller]

Let's Rickroll our audience really quick.

[Sam Stein]

So that's where we're at now. Andrew could take it from here, but this is, like, clown show stuff. I mean, honestly, it's funny, but it's, like, also two serious elements. One is these people are. Are actually in charge right now. This isn't like a, you know, weird Internet frenzy bullshit. This is the Attorney General, the United States, sending a letter to the FBI director, being like, hey, help me get these Epstein files. It's like, you guys have real responsibilities. Take this shit seriously. And the second thing is, it's disrespectful to the actual victims. Honestly, it is like, he had actual victims you know, this is such a.

[Tim Miller]

I would throw on top of that. Also interesting timing that on the same day they decided to, like, haphazardly release the supposed Epstein files and the name of justice for victims of child sex trafficking. They also welcomed alleged child sex trafficker Andrew Tate back into America, landing from Romania into Florida, where he had been on house arrest for doing, again, allegedly sex trafficking. So some inconsistencies there, Andrew. What else are we missing here?

[Andrew Egger]

So, to me, the kind of. The bottom line with all this stuff is this. They have a big part of their base that is essentially. Has essentially convinced themselves that the Epstein thing will not have been fully brought to light until people like Barack Obama and Oprah Winfrey and George Clooney are, like, revealed and Hillary Clinton are revealed to be, like, satanic pedophiles. Right? I mean, like, that. That is kind of like, that's the connection.

[Tim Miller]

What Hillary is. What Hillary doing with the. With the kids.

[Sam Stein]

Hillary is just responsible.

[Tim Miller]

She a lesbian.

[Andrew Egger]

And it might not all be sexual. You know, there's various blood rituals involved, you know, adrenochrome, that kind of stuff. Like, but, but, but, but I mean, my point is that, like, you can never. You can never satisfy the. The kind of, like, urge for, like, quote, unquote, transparency on the Epstein vials until you have Bro Light, you know, the entire global pedophile ring that includes all of your enemies. And so that, I think that is the reason why, like, you see this, like, constant kind of cycle of, like, revelation, but then more to come. Question mark. Like, you see the guys marching the binders out of the room, but then you also immediately see the Pam Bondi thing. Like, but wait, what's next? What's the next thing? What's the next card that needs to be over? The next thing that needs to be.

[Sam Stein]

Andrew. How do they account for Donald Trump's proximity to Jeffrey Epstein?

[Andrew Egger]

That is always the same thing, which is that they were bros back in the day. But then they point to the fact that Trump allegedly had Epstein banned from Mar a Lago in 2007 over some incident there. And that's like, when he caught on or something and wrote him out of his.

[Tim Miller]

I wanted to read some of some actual reporting. This is what people come to the Bulwark Force. I'm on my girl Julie K. Brown's Twitter feed, but before I get to her is have DC Drano or Guerrilla Mindset or Libs of TikTok. Have they revealed anything that's in the binders?

[Andrew Egger]

You gotta give them a little Time. I mean, they only got the raw documents.

[Tim Miller]

They gotta come through.

[Andrew Egger]

They gotta put the poster board together, put all the string.

[Tim Miller]

Okay. Well, Sam looks at that. A few things from Julie Brown because I think this is important, her reporting. Those involved in the Jeffrey Epstein case for two decades, fear of this case and Epstein's victims are being used for political purposes. This isn't a news story. It's a publicity stunt. As lawyer representing one of the victims, she goes on the sexual abuse of children is not funny. Or caused to hold up files containing their agony as if it's some celebration. I don't think that she's going to shame the libs of TikTok Girl on that. But it's a fair point. She also points out that as Sam did, a list has been public since 2015. All one has to do is Google it. She wrote a book about it. Epstein's black book was public so long ago that it could be a child in school now. And let's see. And then she does note, I guess the one area where Julie K. Brown sides with the. Not sides with, but like, affirms what the administration is saying is that Pam Bondi's letter to Kash Patel does have some elements of truth in it. She said the FBI has hundreds of documents in its vaults that are redacted, that the Miami Herald has repeatedly asked them to justify their redactions and lift them. And that has not happened. So maybe Cash will get on that for us. I don't know. Sam, have we seen anything from D.C. drano yet?

[Sam Stein]

Nothing yet on D.C. drano. No, nothing. Sorry.

[Tim Miller]

It's interesting. We'll see though. Who knows what will come out? I would say that hypothetically, if you are the president and you know that your conspiracy addled followers are desperate for new information to prove that their enemies are all part of this secret pedophile ring and that you weren't like a good strategic move might be to bring in four insane people and hand them partial documents that don't mention you. Yeah. Again, hypothetically, if that was your motive to try to like get people to look over there, it seems like, you know, this might be a tactic you may use.

[Sam Stein]

I guess. I mean, I feel like this whole thing is just a clown show and a distraction and they'll never be satisfied. There's always going to be something that's so here.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, good. It's important that we have some disagreement on the board from time to time because we are often aligned. A distraction from what? I hate when people call this stuff a Distraction. This is the thing like Trump wants. It's not like there's like Trump has this master plan where he's distracting you from his secret plan. Underneath everything is text. With Trump, he doesn't have subtext. Like, this is it. This is like.

[Sam Stein]

I think this is. I think maybe distraction is the wrong word. But I do think they constantly need to throw chum in the water to their conspiracists. And if these guys, I mean, I think there's always going to be a bunch of people out there who just assume that the world is run by dark satanic forces, that if you just get your people in place, you'll finally get the revelations that you sought for. And so when I use the word distraction, what I meant is that, you know, these people got what they wanted. They got the conspiracy loving.

[Tim Miller]

They need to feed your content and.

[Sam Stein]

They need to give them a little chum. And so Pam Bondi, literally, like two weeks into the job, it's ridiculous that this is what she's focused on, but she knows that she has to throw them a little chum. And so she goes on Jesse Waters and she says, oh, I got breaking news coming tomorrow because people are agitating her to release some stuff. And then she brings in, you know, a half dozen weird conspiracy theorists to get binders because she knows that they are the ones that would, you know, jump on it and feed, feed the people who want this chump. And so you just keep going through and keep giving them stuff. They'll never be satisfied. They'll never believe anything. There's always some dark, nefarious force hiding the truth. And we'll just go through the cycle a million times.

[Tim Miller]

This is maybe my editor job for everybody. Because you spark a thought, Sam, about Bondi. I mean, so far, just like you're looking at the record of the doj. Like, criminals released. Violent cop beating criminals released. Like quite a few dozen criminals. Sex trafficking criminals brought into the country too, today. Criminals, like, nabbed. Not. Not a ton so far. I mean, it's happening under the radar, but we haven't seen a ton of, like a ton of progress. But, you know, it's only been a month. Five weeks. Longest five weeks of my life. Andrew, any final thoughts?

[Andrew Egger]

Yeah, I think that, like, that is the sense in which distraction is true, right? Like, because. Because it's not like, it's not like it's distracting these people from like, some other stuff that they would like to be paying attention to. What they want is distraction. What they want is this kind of like constant cycle of, of right wing MAGA infotainment to make them feel like they are living like constantly on this progression from one thing to the next thing to the next thing that's all leading somewhere. Right? And like that, that just like the constant, constant kind of unfolding and revealing of, of something. They don't really know where, where it's going or what it's heading to but it's, it's the lived experience of just being able to get online and like see the Trump administration like pulling back the curtain in some way is actively like what they are looking for out of this administration is that, is that that sense that we're kind of all in this thing together, getting, getting to it and so like yeah, it's not meaningful in that way but it's not, it's not like it's distracting them from the other stuff they would like rather be paying attention to. That's what they want out of the administration and that's why they're giving it to them.

[Tim Miller]

Thank you. Andreiger and Sam Stein. Subscribe to the feedback and who knows what. We'll find out tomorrow.

[Sam Stein]

We'll see Drainoff.