Bulwark Takes: Detailed Summary of "Trump’s Surgeon General Nominee May Be Too Weird Even for MAGA"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Bulwark Takes
• Host/Author: The Bulwark
• Description: The news cycle doesn’t slow down, and neither does The Bulwark. Bulwark Takes brings you bite-sized takes on the news of the day from the entire Bulwark team, including Tim Miller, Sarah Longwell, and Bill Kristol, and more.
• Episode: Trump’s Surgeon General Nominee May Be Too Weird Even for MAGA
• Release Date: May 8, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, host Andrew Egger delves into the recent upheaval in Donald Trump’s appointments, specifically focusing on the unexpected nomination of Kacey Means as the new U.S. Surgeon General. Egger is joined by Jonathan Cohn, the Bulwark’s top policy reporter, and Will Sommer, their expert on right-wing movements and extremism. Together, they dissect the background, controversies, and implications of Means’ nomination within the broader political and healthcare landscape.

Background of Kacey Means

Andrew Egger [00:00]:

“Donald Trump's new pick to be the US Surgeon General, Kacey Means, is kind of an interesting character in a whole lot of ways.”

Jonathan Cohn [00:50]: Means’ biography presents a conventional path initially. She attended Stanford and Stanford Medical School, completing her residency in Oregon as a head and neck surgeon. However, during her residency, she experienced an “epiphany” that shifted her focus from treating illnesses to promoting preventive health. This revelation led her to abandon traditional surgical practices in favor of becoming a writer, thinker, and entrepreneur advocating for holistic health.

Means collaborates closely with her brother, Callie Means, a Harvard Business School graduate. Together, they criticize the American medical system's emphasis on treating diseases rather than preventing them. Their work emphasizes diet, exercise, and natural living, though some question the scientific rigor of their theories.

Will Sommer [02:37]: Means and her brother authored the bestseller Good Energy, promoting ideas like increasing sunlight exposure and improving metabolic health. Their appearance on platforms like Joe Rogan and Tucker Carlson significantly boosted their popularity, especially among RFK Jr.'s supporters. This positioned them as key figures in the “Make America Healthy Again” movement, aligning with Trump’s broader health agenda.

Kacey Means’ Beliefs and Controversies

Andrew Egger [03:19]: Means advocates for commonsensical health practices such as:

• Increased sunlight exposure
• Adequate sleep
• Hydration
• Reduced consumption of processed foods

However, she layers these recommendations with theories that some label as pseudoscientific. Her influence extends to more contentious areas, including skepticism about pediatric vaccines and concerns over environmental issues like chemtrails.

Will Sommer [05:22]: Means’ beliefs blend mainstream wellness with fringe theories:

• Advocates for natural health without appearing radical
• Expresses mild vaccine skepticism
• Questions the prevalence of chemicals in the environment

This duality makes her a polarizing figure. While she appeals to wellness enthusiasts, her stance on issues like chemtrails and vaccines aligns her with more extreme elements, causing friction even within the anti-vaccine community.

Andrew Egger [05:22]:

“A person might call it pseudoscientific, sort of holistic explanation for why all of these things are contributing to your metabolic health...”

Will Sommer [05:26]: Means has entertained theories such as chemtrails, citing unusual patterns in the sky without concrete evidence. Her appearances on shows like Kristen Cavallari’s underscore her broader engagement with audiences beyond traditional scientific circles.

Political Associations and Implications

Andrew Egger [07:30]: Means and her brother played a significant role in bridging Donald Trump and RFK Jr. post-Trump’s attempted assassination. Their involvement has influenced the dynamics of the 2024 election, positioning them as influential figures within certain MAGA factions.

Jonathan Cohn [13:02]: The relationship between Trump and RFK Jr. is complex and transactional. Trump's appointment of Means aligns with his objective to challenge the medical establishment, particularly Big Pharma, and promote alternative health narratives. The Surgeon General’s role, while symbolic, provides a platform that could amplify Means’ perspectives on public health.

Role and Significance of the Surgeon General

Jonathan Cohn [08:24]: The Surgeon General is one of the United States' oldest offices, originating in 1798 to care for mariners. Today, the role is largely symbolic but holds significant influence through public reports and advocacy. Past Surgeon Generals have shaped public health policy, such as the critical 1960s report linking smoking to health hazards and the impactful 1980s report on AIDS by C. Everett Koop.

Means, as Surgeon General, would have the authority to issue reports and spearhead public health initiatives. Her focus on preventative health and critique of the pharmaceutical industry could potentially redirect national health dialogues.

Jonathan Cohn [11:18]:

“The Surgeon General's report back in the 1960s that smoking was hazardous to your health... was a really big part of it.”

The position allows Means to highlight issues like metabolic health, diet, and exercise, aligning with her holistic health ideology. However, her lack of an active medical license and association with controversial beliefs may undermine her credibility and effectiveness.

Controversies Surrounding the Nomination

Will Sommer [14:45]: The initial nominee for Surgeon General was ousted, partly due to criticism from Laura Loomer, a right-wing activist. Loomer targeted Means by questioning her medical qualifications and previous endorsements of mask-wearing during COVID-19, labeling her as insufficiently aligned with MAGA principles.

Jonathan Cohn [17:14]: Means’ Oregon medical license is inactive, raising concerns about her qualifications. While not revoked or suspended, this status is unprecedented for a modern Surgeon General nominee, potentially casting doubts on her ability to fulfill the role effectively.

Andrew Egger [17:12]: The departure of the first nominee led to questions about Means’ authenticity within the anti-vaccine movement. Critics argue that Means may need to adopt anti-vaccine stances superficially to align with her political base, raising issues about the integrity and sincerity of her health advocacy.

Implications for Public Health and Politics

Andrew Egger [13:02]: The nomination of Means reflects a broader trend where health policy intersects with political agendas. Her focus on wellness aligns with Trump’s anti-establishment rhetoric, challenging traditional medical practices and promoting alternative health measures. This dynamic raises concerns about the politicization of public health and the potential sidelining of evidence-based practices.

Jonathan Cohn [18:00]: Means represents a shift in how public health leadership is perceived, blending wellness trends with political ideology. Her appointment could signal a move towards prioritizing holistic health narratives over conventional medical strategies, impacting public health policies and national health discourse.

Conclusion

The nomination of Kacey Means as the U.S. Surgeon General underscores a significant intersection of health, politics, and ideology within the current administration. While her emphasis on preventative health aligns with broader wellness trends, her association with fringe theories and an inactive medical license pose questions about her suitability for the role. The episode highlights the complexities of appointing public health leaders in a polarized political landscape and the potential ramifications for American healthcare policy.

Notable Quotes:

• Andrew Egger [00:00]:

  “Donald Trump's new pick to be the US Surgeon General, Kacey Means, is kind of an interesting character in a whole lot of ways.”

• Jonathan Cohn [08:24]:

  “The Surgeon General’s report back in the 1960s that smoking was hazardous to your health... was a really big part of it.”

• Andrew Egger [17:12]:

  “Do not permit the incoming Surgeon General to perform surgery on you.”

This comprehensive summary captures the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the podcast episode, providing an in-depth overview for those who haven’t listened.