Trump’s Tariffs on Foreign Movies Won’t Work–but THIS Will! (w/ Rep. Laura Friedman)

Summary

Bulwark Takes – Episode Summary

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Host: Sunny Bunch (Culture Editor, The Bulwark)
Guest: Rep. Laura Friedman (D-CA-30, former Hollywood producer)
Episode: "Trump’s Tariffs on Foreign Movies Won’t Work–but THIS Will!"
Date: September 9, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the debate over how best to bring movie and television production jobs back to the United States. Host Sunny Bunch interviews Representative Laura Friedman, whose district includes much of Hollywood and whose background as a film producer enables a unique perspective on the intersection of the film industry and public policy. The discussion centers on President Trump’s proposal for tariffs on foreign films versus the more proven approach of tax credits to incentivize domestic film production. The conversation expands to the impact of industry changes (like FinCEN’s repeal and tax credit evolutions), the broader economic and cultural stakes, and touches on related domestic policy issues like affordable housing in California.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rep. Friedman's Hollywood Background Sets the Stage

• Career in Film: Friedman shares her 20+ years of experience, from NYC indie production to script reading at HBO, story editing at Paramount, and running development for a syndication company ([02:36]).
  • "Started there, worked for that producer for a few years and then moved to...Reicher Entertainment...I was hired as their head of development...I produced five feature films, but also was an executive overseeing development on scores of films." – Friedman [03:19]
• Natural Transition to Politics: She compares producing films to legislating, noting the importance of vision, relationship-building, and coalition work in both fields ([05:18]).
  • "To be successful in both fields, you have to be able to do a couple of things well. You have to be able to come up with a vision, and you have to be able to convince people to buy into your vision." – Friedman [05:34]

2. How & Why Film Production Left California (and the U.S.)

• Film jobs have diminished due to shifting production overseas and to tax-incentive-rich U.S. states like Georgia ([08:33]).
• The introduction of tax credits in Canada created a “wholesale exodus” as even small-budget films found it more profitable to shoot abroad ([09:06]).
  • "[Canada] offered a chance to get a film tax credit that made those films pencil out a lot faster...then we saw a wholesale exodus of productions." – Friedman [09:36]
• Domestic competition with other states for production jobs, but the bigger loss is to international locations ([10:49]).

3. The Value of Movie Production—Economically and Culturally

• Hollywood jobs are “aspirational” at all levels—from set labor to creatives ([11:37]).
• Tourism and cultural cachet remain firmly rooted in Hollywood, but the threat is real if production keeps shifting ([11:37]).
• "These are union jobs primarily...blue collar...up to the creative level...jobs that people want. That's something that is attractive to every state." – Friedman [12:10]

4. National vs. State Tax Credits: The Real Solution

• Tax Credits Explained: Unlike government grants, tax credits allow productions to deduct part of their expenses from their tax payments, making the U.S. competitive internationally ([17:19]).
  • "California has one model...a flat out deduction from taxes if you're to shoot in the United States using American talent, for instance." – Friedman [17:27]
• Why Tariffs Don’t Work (and Are Unworkable): Bunch and Friedman both stress that tariffs on “foreign movies” aren’t practical or effective; there’s no way to “import” a movie as a good to be tariffed, and it would ultimately hurt consumers ([20:49]).
  • "You're right, I don't know what a tariff would look like. I don't know how that works. I certainly don't want to do anything that would raise the price to consumers." – Friedman [21:46]
• Tax Credits: Evidence and Bipartisan Appeal: The California model has empirical support in stimulating production and the broader economy. Friedman argues for a federal credit to stack with existing state-based incentives ([21:46], [23:20]).
  • "We know that the film tax credit works. We have absolute empirical evidence..." – Friedman [21:46]
  • "I think this tax credit is not a pipe dream. It's a serious proposal...it will be bipartisan." – Friedman [41:36]

5. Industry Changes: The Impact of FinCEN’s Repeal and Consolidation

• Bunch asks Friedman to explain the impact of the 1993 repeal of FinCEN (Financial Interest and Syndication Rules) ([33:53]).
• Result: Ownership and profits shifted from independent producers to studios and networks, which led to less economic democracy and fewer industry jobs ([35:01]).
  • "After the FinCEN rules went away...the ownership, the sort of economic, shifted away from those independent producers...to the broadcast networks and the studios." – Friedman [35:36]
• Further consolidation shrank creative job opportunities and increased the risk aversion of the industry ([39:34]).

6. Affordable Housing and the “Abundance Agenda”

• Friedman discusses her efforts to make California more livable for the film workforce and families—chiefly by easing regulations on infill affordable housing ([24:14]).
  • "My job is to make people's lives better and easier, and that means making sure that they can afford their housing..." – Friedman [24:16]
• Discusses a bipartisan federal bill to streamline environmental reviews for affordable housing projects ([24:49]).

7. The Case for a National Coalition

• Friedman describes building a cross-state, bipartisan coalition in Congress—a necessity given how many states now have significant film production via tax credits ([32:00]).
  • "Remember I was talking about being a producer and bringing people together, getting everyone together at the table...I am working on assembling that team right now." – Friedman [32:00]
• States benefit from local jobs, but national action is required to be competitive globally ([32:28]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Movie Magic:
  "People want to be in this industry from a young age. They watch movies, they watch TV, they're inspired, they have a story to tell...They want to be a part of that movie magic." – Friedman [12:06]

• On Tariffs vs. Tax Credits:
  "You're right, I don't know what a tariff would look like...Let's do what we know works and that will bring those jobs back to Los Angeles and to America." – Friedman [21:46]

• On the Cultural Power of Film:
  "We tell our story to the world. We show our products to the world. We sell democracy and the American way of life and our values to the world through our movies. There is something that's as important as the jobs..." – Friedman [18:08]

• On Changing the Housing Approval Process:
  "We've introduced [a NEPA reform] bill...it's bipartisan as far as I know. It has no opposition at this point...But it will absolutely help build more affordable housing in Los Angeles..." – Friedman [24:49]

• On Indie Producer Life, Then vs. Now:
  "Producers were a big part of the ownership of those properties, not just a studio now. I guess people still kind of do that and sell those projects to Netflix, but it's a different model." – Friedman [38:36]

• On Parent Life & K-Pop Demon Hunters:
  "Did you know that adults are not allowed to speak [when K-Pop Demon Hunters, Taylor Swift, or Olivia Rodrigo are on]? My daughter told me that this was a law and was a new one on me as a lawmaker." – Friedman [42:55]

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Important Timestamps

• Rep. Friedman’s Hollywood Background and Producer to Politician Transition: [02:36] – [08:08]
• The Industry’s Shift Away from L.A. and the Role of Tax Credits: [08:33] – [11:37]
• Economic & Cultural Stakes of Local Production: [11:37] – [14:23]
• Difference Between Tax Credits and Grants/Foreign Funding: [16:34] – [18:08]
• Why Tariffs on Foreign Movies Are Unworkable: [20:49] – [21:46]
• California’s Experience with Film Tax Credits: [21:46] – [23:20]
• Affordable Housing and NEPA Reform Bill: [24:14] – [27:05]
• Stacking Federal and State Credits/Coalition Building: [28:17] – [33:53]
• FinCEN’s Repeal and Industry Consolidation: [33:53] – [39:34]
• Closing on Film Industry’s Economic and Cultural Importance: [40:21] – [41:55]
• Parenting, K-Pop Demon Hunters, and Film Consumption Culture: [42:31] – [44:12]

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Tone and Takeaways

Rep. Friedman brings a pragmatic, inside-Hollywood perspective to federal policy. She ties together economic arguments, cultural significance, and the lived experience of her district’s workforce to make the case that a national tax credit (not tariffs) is the real lever for restoring and growing U.S. film production. Sunny Bunch keeps the conversation focused, probing on technical details but also allowing space for personal asides that ground the conversation in the culture itself. The episode wraps with hope and commitment to bipartisan action, leaving listeners with a clear sense of what’s at stake—and a look behind the curtain of both Hollywood and legislative production.

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Ideal for listeners who care about film economics, labor policy, or the intersection of government and culture in the streaming era.

Transcript

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[Sunny Bunch]

Welcome back to the Bulwark. My name is Sunny Bunch. I am culture editor at the Bulwark and I'm very pleased to be joined today by Representative Laura Friedman out in California's 30th district, which includes, includes Hollywood basically as Burbank, Glendale, West Hollywood, parts of la, Pasadena. But if I was to describe it in shorthand, I would say she represents Hollywood, Hollywood's district, which is, which has a lot of different connotations which we can, we can get into. But Representative Friedman, thanks for being on the show today.

[Representative Laura Friedman]

Thanks for having me.

[Sunny Bunch]

So I wanted to talk about, I wanted to before we get in, I'm a movie guy. I mostly talk about movies and the business of Hollywood, et cetera. So we'll talk about all the boring politics stuff in a second. But I want to talk about your career in Hollywood first as a producer working with the studios Fill folks in on your background here because I think it's very important about what we're going to be discussing today.

[Representative Laura Friedman]

Sure. I worked in the film industry for over 20 years. Right. When I graduated college I got hired by an independent producer in New York City. So I worked for four years in New York for independent producers and finishing at HBO as a full time script reader. And then I got offered a job at Paramount in Los Angeles. Angeles. Because I didn't tell them when I applied that I was living in New York. I put everything into boxes and mailed it out so that I could start work. Two weeks after I was offered a job as a story editor for an independent producer at Paramount. Started there, worked for that producer for a few years and then moved to a company called Reicher Entertainment, which was a first run syndication company that was about to launch itself into being a fledgling movie studio. And I was hired as their head of development, primarily on the feature side, but a little bit on the TV side. Worked with them for a number of years and under that umbrella was able to produce five feature films, but also was an executive overseeing development on scores of films and a bunch of television shows. Many that you've heard of, probably a few you haven't went from there to run two producers, Robert Court and David Madden's production company back at Paramount. This time I had a parking space on the lot, so I knew I had arrived. Yeah, right. Don't miss that. Then after that I became an independent producer, worked with a manager, a manager of writers and talent. And then I kind of slowly was fading out of being an independent producer and fading into my, my love of politics. And you know, I can tell you how that transition happened, but it was slow and messy and not intended ever. I always thought that my whole career, my whole life would be in the film industry.

[Sunny Bunch]

Yeah.

[Representative Laura Friedman]

Now kind of circle back with working on film industry issues in Washington D.C. so it's a kind of a full circle moment.

[Sunny Bunch]

Yeah. Well, it is very interesting right now because there's a lot of talk about, you know, tariffs and film tax credits and that sort of thing. And that is what I want to focus on here in a minute. But let's talk about that transition a little bit because it is, you know, what's the joke about politics? Right. It's Hollywood for, for the less attractive. This is how I got into politics, you know, being a. But. And I don't, I, it's, I don't, I'm not trying to cast any aspersions here. I'm just Saying it's. It's. That. Is that it's a very similar world is my point. It's a. There's a lot of. You have to meet people, you have to have good relationships, but you also have to get stuff done. There are a lot of people in Hollywood who don't get stuff done and they don't last there. And there are a lot of people in politics who don't get stuff done, maybe last a little bit longer. But it is a very similar sort of world. Right.

[Representative Laura Friedman]

It's like the same job. It's the same job. So years ago, when I was on the Glendale City Council, I was still working in the film industry, and I went on a lobby trip to Washington, D.C. and we walked into one of those restaurants, like the Capitol Grill or, you know, one of those. And I was like, this is exactly the feeling that you get when you walk into the Ivy or Maple Drive or any of the restaurants at the time that were the Hollywood restaurants where you could look around and you would know who was sort of the DC equivalent of a producer, who were the agents, who was the talent. You could look around and know who the lobbyists were, who the elected representatives were, who the funders were, you know, the donors, just by the dynamics you could see playing out at every table. It's eerily similar, as well as the way that power works. And, you know, to me, most importantly, it's because to be successful in both fields, you have to be able to do a couple of things well. You have to be able to come up with a vision, and you have to be able to convince people to buy into your vision, right? So when you're in Hollywood, you have to convince people that you have a property or a story that people are going to want to see on the screen. And it's not easy to convince people of that. Think of all the scripts, the hundreds of thousands of scripts that are floating around Hollywood, and there's a few of them that get made. And so someone has taken the time to recognize and have the vision for what that's going to look like on the screen and why people are gonna be attracted to go and spend their money to go and see that. They have to be able to convince other people to see that vision. And then when you launch into development, you have to gather a group around you that shares your vision. And you also have to be willing to take their input and make the changes that you need to make the project better. So in Congress, I also have to work on having a vision. I Have to see a need somehow and show people that this is something people are gonna be interested, that's important, that people are gonna vote for. And then I have to go and gather the stakeholders around me that help bring it to fruition. Because anything important you're not going to do on your own, you have to have supporters, you have to have people who advocate. You have to have, just like in Hollywood, you've got to have your directors and your writers and your actors who lend their name to your project in Congress or in the state legislature where I spent eight years, you've got to have the interest groups, you've got to have the spokespeople who do the same thing to help you get to where you need to get to get the thing made. So it is all about producing. Like you said in Hollywood, when I was an independent producer, no one paying my bills if I didn't get something set up. And here no one's going to vote for me if I don't get stuff done. So I feel like it is very much I approach both jobs in the same way and it is relationship driven. So you do the breakfast and you do the lunches and you do the drinks and you do the dinners to build out that network so that you can be more effective at your job.

[Sunny Bunch]

Let's talk about the kind of similarities and differences between politics at each level. Right. So you're, when you're, when you start in local politics, you are still, you're still doing some producing work, which I assume there's some overlap there in between in terms of like, we want to get this thing made, how can we, how can the local politics help do that? What were some of the things that the industry was dealing with on the local level when you were on the city council?

[Representative Laura Friedman]

Well, locally we had a lot of film production still at the time I was elected to the glendale council in 2009. So there was still a good deal of production, although there was a lot more reality production going on just in general in the industry than there was sort of long form. TV movies were kind of fading away completely. The industry was changing for a lot of reasons. And I'm sure you've covered financial, some of the FinCEN rules and the impact that that had antitrust legislation, which made a big difference, for instance, in my former company, which was a first syndication company, so very sort of wonky in the weeds financial models that were changing, a lot more reality being produced much cheaper. So we already saw a conflation. Right. When I came into the industry in the 90s there were hundreds of producers that had deal with studios and they all employed little teams, people like me, story editors and development executives and assistants. And they were just this ecosystem of jobs and over time that's shrunk. So that's one big driver of job loss in the industry. So that's something we don't even really talk about as much. There's a lot less of that now. But when it comes to the production that also was at the time into 2000s, there was still a lot of production going on around Los Angeles. There were still film studios that were full. There was production visible on the streets around Glendale, where I live and Hollywood. And then we started to see a lot more of that leave. And I remember when my company sent all their low budget straight to television movies to Canada because Canada had introduced the first film tax credits and we wanted to take advantage of them. And these were two and a half million, $3 million, very small films made for, made for cable, you know, made for television, very small profit margins, really tight. We were selling them around the world, but it took them years to really get to profitability. And Canada offered a chance to get a film tax credit that made those films pencil out a lot faster. And so the company I worked for started sending five, six films a year to Canada. And the next thing we knew in Hollywood we saw a wholesale exodus of productions up first to Canada and now increasingly around the world as other countries want in on the film production and television production business.

[Sunny Bunch]

Well, let's, let's, let's jump to this then because I do think this is, this is kind of the crux of the crisis that Hollywood, the place, the location is kind of facing right now, which is the outflow of production to not just the rest of the world, but also in America. I mean, you know, you have tax, very, very valuable tax credits in Georgia, in, I don't know, LA, some in New York, etc. So it's it, we, we have seen the, the center of film production move out of Hollywood. Is there any way to bring that back through, through a more lucrative tax credit system?

[Representative Laura Friedman]

So we are still in peak production. We still because of the success of streaming services which can offer a lot more content even than the traditional sort of movie screen model. There's still a ton of content and very high quality content being created around the world. So there is more content, but we have less of it in the United States because we have more international competition and other countries are really trying to incentivize this industry. And let's be clear, there's a reason for that. First of all, these are aspirational jobs at every level. People want to be in this industry from a young age. They watch movies, they watch tv, they're inspired, they have a story to tell. They want to tell that story. They want to be a part of that movie magic. They're aspirational jobs that people want that offer a really good living in Hollywood. These are union jobs primarily. They're steady jobs. They're jobs, everything from blue collar, sort of craft services work, you know, people who build sets and are able to do that in a really good environment up to the creative. At the creative level, when you're directing or writing and telling a story. Right. So it offers a multitude of jobs at a lot of different kind of types of jobs that are good jobs that people want. And that's something that is attractive to every state. Every state wants to have that. And in Hollywood, we also have the benefit of that industry being so popular to the general public that we have tourism that is based 100% on us being the center of the film world. People want to be a part of that. They still buy the maps to stars homes. They still want to go and see George Clooney eating at a restaurant. There's still that magic left in Hollywood. And so we have a lot at stake to keeping that there. And what I'm trying to say is that because of peak content, there's also enough production to go around to Georgia to other states. And that's great. I love that. But what we need is to bring that production back to the United States. And that's what I'm focusing on. Hollywood will continue to still be the center of the film industry. And the reason is because we have the infrastructure, and that's infrastructure that's been created for now over 100 years, literally. So we still have the most sound stages, we still have the best crews in the world, bar none, and the most of them. So you're not going to have a situation where the only good, whatever it is on your set is sick. And now you're scrambling to get someone. You've got a deep bench of talented crew cast here in Los Angeles. You have the best film equipment in the world, the most modern sound stages and the brain trust. You've got the writers, you've got the directors in one place. So we will continue to be the center if we do what we need to do nationally to bring film back from overseas. Because other countries and yes, other states, but other countries are catching up really, really.

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[Sunny Bunch]

All right, so let's. Let's talk about what a national tax tax credit would look like because I think, you know, some people think of, oh, the national governments are funding their movies. They think of the, the, I don't know, English film, the British Film Institute or whatever. They think of like the, the, the, the Danes are giving the guys who made the movie Lamb, you know, a million bucks to make their movie. Right. They're thinking grants, they're not thinking tax credits. Tax credits, very different. That is what has kind of lured, you know, the Disney and Marvel folks to London to make their, their next run of films. Right. Tax credits work differently. Could you, what would a, what would a national tax credit for film production in the United States look like? How would that, how would that work for the studios?

[Representative Laura Friedman]

Right. So there are different models and California has one model. And we're in discussions now, I'm in discussions, when I say we, I mean me, I'm in discussions with my colleagues about the best way to do that at a national. But it would be a flat out deduction from taxes if you're to shoot in the United States using American talent, for instance. And the California tax credit has a, you know, a system that, that basically follows that model. So you're not talking about the state is not putting grants in. They're, they're allowing those productions to use those credits against taxes that they would normally pay to the state of California. And that's how that works in California. You could devise something that works nationally as well. And to be clear, this is not unique. There are other industries that receive and have received over time tax credits, whether it's the pharmaceutical industry with R and D credits, whether it's clean energy, which under Biden's infrastructure bill also received tax credits. This is not something that would be unique to Hollywood. It is a way that we have incentivized certain businesses to operate in the United States in several different cases. So we're, I am in discussions now with the best way to do this, to have a United States based tax credit to lure productions back that have gone overseas, whether it's Marvel or other, many times US Companies, but also foreign countries so that we can compete on a level playing field with what other countries are offering to get these very good jobs in this really important industry into their country. And you know, by the way, I was happy to see Trump. I disagree with him about pretty much everything. But this is an area where I agreed with his tweet saying that this was a very important industry for the United States, a signature industry that's important for us beyond the jobs that it creates. And if you'll give me one second. I'll tell you what I mean. You know, I love going to flea markets. It's one of my favorite things to do in the world. It's like my hobby. And when you go to the flea market at the Rose bowl, there's an area outside that's all used clothing. And there are hundreds of kids, a lot of young people from around the world, but particularly Japan, who go to that flea market. They fly over from Japan to go to the Rose bowl flea market to buy Levi's, to buy old blue jeans. Why is that? Because they saw James Dean wearing the same blue jeans in his movies. They saw their icons wearing this American product, and they want it. We tell our story to the world. We show our products to the world. We sell democracy and the American way of life and our values to the world through our movies. There is something that's as important as the jobs, the good jobs that this industry creates for our ability to tell the rest of the world what America is ourselves, for us to be able to drive that narrative. And we have done that now for over 100 years. American movies are still considered the gold standard for storytelling around the world. They're the best selling, best selling, the most profitable films. But we're allowing that now to leak away, and that should be something that we all care about. President Trump recognized the importance of that when he tweeted about it. And so this should be something that is bipartisan, that Congress should support, which is creating the kind of tax credit that we have created for many other industries in the past for this very signature American product.

[Sunny Bunch]

Yeah. And we should. Here's, here's where things get tricky, though, because Trump thinks in terms of tariffs, Trump thinks in terms of, we need to, we need to punish these companies that are leaving. We need to punish these other countries that are stealing our jobs. And a tariff is very different from a tax credit. That is, those are, those are two very different ideas. And there's a whole debate about what, what a tariff on a product like a film would even look like. Because it's not like you're importing a good. It's not, how do you, how do you levy that? How do you pay it? Who pays it? You know, where does it, where does the money come from? And I think that that has, I mean, look, that has to be kind of worrisome to the folks in Hollywood, Right? The idea of Trump saying, we're going to put 110% tariff on any, any film credit that you get from, from England or wherever that has to be. That has to be kind of worrying, right?

[Representative Laura Friedman]

Well, sure. Look, I'm looking for a real solution here. And we know it works because we know that the film tax credit in California has worked. We saw it just recently. It was announced that a show is moving from Texas to California because they got the new expanded California film tax credit. So those are jobs that are coming right back into California. And there's been, by the way, numerous studies that show that this tax credit pays back into the economy with a multiplier effect that stimulates the entire economy. And so that money, it's money well spent because it goes back to state of California and other taxes later on as people are able to live in California and pay their bills and go out to eat and do all the things that they want to do. So we know that the film tax credit works. We have absolute empirical evidence that it's worked to bring filming back to California. And by the way, when that tax credit started in California, guess what happened? Filming came back to the streets of Los Angeles. They were filming down the street from me in Glendale as I speak. And that started when the film tax credit came to California. So we know that works. Let's stick with the structure that we know is work that's proven to work, which is a tax credit. And you're right, I don't know what a tariff would look like. I don't know how that works. I certainly don't want to do anything that would raise the price to consumers. I don't want you to have to pay more if you stream a foreign film than if you stream a film that was shot in America. That's not fair to consumers. That's not what anybody wants to see. Let's do what we know works and that will bring those jobs back to Los Angeles and to and to America.

[Sunny Bunch]

Yeah, I, it's, it's interesting you mentioned being able to live in California. And one of the things that you, you've been working on a lot is affordable housing. And the, the idea of, you know, making, making things easier to build in California, which I have friends who live in California and the, the listings, they, the real estate listings they send me make my eyes pop. And that, that, that is, that is being able to live in a place so you can work there is a key thing. What do you make of the, you know, the so called abundance agenda, right? Like the, the effort to make building more accessible housing more affordable. What do you see the role of the federal government in this, in this is because it really is. I mean, look, this is a local issue as much as anything else. It is. It's about zoning and, you know, building, et cetera. But what can you guys do in Congress to help kind of make it more affordable for folks?

[Representative Laura Friedman]

Sure. Well, you asked what my take is on the abundance agenda. My job is to make people's lives better and easier, and that means making sure that they can afford their housing and that they can afford access to medical care and to protect that quality of life. And so I think it's really important that we do everything that we can to have enough housing for everybody who needs it, to make sure we have a roof over everybody's head. And I have been very focused on this in my years and the Glendale City Council and also in the California Legislature. I am very much on board with the focus of building the housing that we need so that we can bring prices down, so that people don't have to live in overcrowded conditions, so that people have a better quality of life, that they can get to their job more quickly, they can live closer to where they work. There's all kinds of reasons why that benefits everyone, every single person, even if you already own a house. It takes traffic off the road. It gives your kids a chance to live. I love my daughter. My daughter's 12 years old. There may be a time when she's grown up where I want her to live somewhere else. We continue down the path that we're on, she may have to live with me forever and ever and ever. And, you know, that's not. What. What. You know, that's not. When I grew up, and I, you know, at a certain point, like, my parents are like, goodbye, go. Go rent your own apartment. Well, my daughter could, you know, like, a lot of kids can't afford to rent an apartment in the city that they grew up in. That's not right. So what can we do? Well, I just introduced a bill to reform the NEPA process, which is the National Environmental Protection act, so that infill affordable housing doesn't have to go through an environmental review. I mean, it's nonsensical if you're building an apartment, building on an old parking lot, or converting a strip mall. We know it's good for the. We know that that's good for the environment and certainly good for humans. It's already a developed area. So that shouldn't have to go through a duplicative environmental review that's already done by the state through the CEQA process. So we've introduced that bill, it's bipartisan as far as I know. It has no opposition at this point. It's got support. It's a no brainer, low hanging fruit. But it will absolutely help build more affordable housing in Los Angeles because the affordable housing developers have told us that it cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars to do this review that always gets approved. But they've got to spend this money on consultants. The timeline drags the project out. Sometimes they risk losing their financing. A year goes by when that could have been a year that we had affordable housing for. And when I say affordable housing, I'm talking about projects that are subsidized by the government to have, for, for income qualified individuals to have low rent apartments. We're talking seniors, we're talking people with severe disabilities, people who desperately need housing who, who right now sometimes are in shelters, emergency shelters because we don't have the housing for them. And that's wrong.

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[Sunny Bunch]

I am fascinated by the national tax credit idea. I assume everything I've seen about it. All of the pitches I've seen are that they would stack on top of state subsidies, right? They would stack on top of state film credits, which, which is obviously, I mean like, no, again, nobody wants to lose out on money. Nobody wants to lose out on what they're getting from Georgia or California or wherever the. But what, what would an actual, I mean, so in terms of what sort of, what sort of outlay are we looking at here for the federal government? Because it's not, it's not cheap, it's not free to, you know, give people a tax credit. It's, you know, you let them keep their own money. But, you know, but we should, we should throw out some numbers here. I mean, if you were, if you were in your, in your world of worlds, this is, this is what we're going to do. What would your ideal bill look like for a national tax credit for filmmakers in the United States?

[Representative Laura Friedman]

Right. I can't give you a number at this point. This is something that we're still in negotiations on, and I can't negotiate against myself, sort of publicly. Needs to be enough to bring production back to the United States that we're very clear about the production that has, that has leaked out of the country where they're shooting in English, in other countries, not because they're looking for a pretty location. That's always going to happen. You're always going to want to shoot them. The Bourne Identity, you know, part of it in, in Paris, so you can have that. But then the soundstage part should be in the United States, the part that has leaked away from us. We need to have enough, enough of a tax credit to bring that back. And again, that is money that will be returned to the government because it, the stimulation that it creates, the job creation, the people who are now employed and not on the unemployment roles, the money that it puts into small business, the people who served, who serve the food on the set, the dry cleaner, local dry cleaners, the restaurants that are now feeding the people in that crew, you know, after hours, the bars. That's all money that comes back to the government in terms of sales tax. You know, people have money now. They can go and buy clothing, they can pay their rent. So that money does come back into the economy. And not because I say so, because this has been studied. And the studies show that there is a multiplier effect for this particular tax credit in California and in other states that have done it. So we're talking about an investment, not a grant. So that investment is in terms of the federal government. It's not even budget dust. It's insignificant because the budget is so huge. We subsidize oil production in this country, we subsidize a lot of companies. This is such a teeny portion of what we already do, but one that does provide, again, really good paying jobs and a multiplier effect that is important to stimulate economies from Florida to Georgia to Utah to California and many. And to New York and many other states that recognize the value of These jobs and they put that investment in. Now it's time for the federal government to reward them with adding enough of an investment to bring more production to the United States and really get this ball rolling and bring production back and to take advantage of this peak content that we're seeing around the world.

[Sunny Bunch]

You mentioned all the other states where there are, or some of the other states where there are incentives. Is this, is, is this a, is there a coalition of film producing states that you, that you're kind of pulling together here? Do you have congressmen from, from Utah and Georgia and elsewhere, you know, kind of coming, coming, coming, coming together to say, hey, we're going to do that, we're going to do this thing. What, what does, what does the coalition building look like for you on this, on this issue?

[Representative Laura Friedman]

Remember I was talking about being a producer and bringing people together, getting everyone together at the table, the smart, the people that you need to assemble your team. I am working on assembling that team right now.

[Sunny Bunch]

Okay. Okay. No, it's, I mean, it is, it's, it's interesting because it is a, it's a national issue at this point, given how much production there is around the country. It is not just a, it is not just a Hollywood or California issue. It is very much a people in.

[Representative Laura Friedman]

California and some of them are concerned. They're saying, we only want it to be California. We don't care about the jobs in other states. But look, having the jobs in other states, particularly states that are under Republican leadership, helps us now get a national film credit and that will absolutely help California. And I represent many of the studios and I am in talks with the MPAA quite often about this. And they are saying that that multiplier effect of the states that have film tax credits plus having a national tax credit is what will even the tip the balance and give them the real incentive that they need to bring the productions back. They, they want to shoot here. They really do. But let's not forget that most productions lose money. Most productions, you know, a lot of productions fail. It's a risky business. Companies go in and out of business all the time. And so they're going to go where it helps them make these projects pencil and keep their studios afloat. And so, you know, it's, it's not because they're bad people and, you know, want to shoot somewhere else. It's because they are constantly worried that they're one failure away from their studio getting purchased or going out of business. So, you know, they're going to, they would like to be here. They live here. They live in the United States, many of them live in Los Angeles, as well as their casts and crews that they're taking overseas. So that's why having the national credit, they're saying, will be enough to bring a lot of that production back.

[Sunny Bunch]

I want to shift gears slightly and get into one of the wonky things you had mentioned earlier, which is FinCEN. The, the rule, essentially that was repealed in, I think it was 93. It was repealed. That said, more or less, US television networks could produce their own shows, which I am very much simplifying here, but it is that it has had a lot of interesting and sometimes weird and unexpected effects. Could you do a better job of explaining what fincens repeal actually did in 1993 than I just did? And also explain. I'm just curious what your take is on it. If you think, if you think we need to bring those rules back. I know, I know a lot of the wonks out there, like, we got to bring FinCEN back. We got to get, you know, the financial interest and syndication rules, you know, back in place, because that's what, that's what will. That's what will help the industry compete against itself. I don't, I'm, I'm, I don't know what to think about this because it is very much beyond my, my Ken. But I am.

[Representative Laura Friedman]

Look, I'm not an expert on this, but I can give you from the sort of the producer side, because I worked for producers who were TV movie producers. And just to be clear, because I don't want anyone to get alarmed, there's no proposal right now that I know of to bring these rules back. And I think it would be, you know, let me. I'm focused on film tax credit. That's a different conversation, you know, maybe for another day, maybe not. When the FinCEN rules went away. And before that, let's take TV movies. You know, used to be a thing where broadcasters would broadcast these movies of the week. Producers would make them. What people don't realize is the producers who made the movies of the week own those films. They own those movies. So if you were a producer who made movies of the week, you would go to a television network, and because they couldn't produce and own their own show, they would pay you a license fee to air that show for a certain number of times. And after they aired the show, you were then free, and you would go and you would take your show and you would sell it around the world. You would go to one of the many film festivals, you would go to Cannes, you would go wherever, and there were companies that specialized in distributing these films. They would have giant packages. My company would do that. They would go every year with 50 of these movies, and they would sell them in packages to broadcast networks all around the world. And the producers would get paid the license fee for all of those airings, and they would own that, that project in perpetuity. So they would take. They would get their film financed up front, whatever it cost, $1 million at the time or whatever. They would get their couple hundred thousand dollars license fee from the broadcast networks go. And they would sell and they would make the rest. And then every time that show would air later, they would then get money. When later, if it was picked up by Netflix or whatever, whenever would air, they would start, they would get checks because it was their property. Well, after the FinCEN rules went away, that model went away. So what happened was those producers, now, if they were going to produce first for a television network, they would just get paid a salary and that would be the end of it. And the result is that the ownership, the sort of economic, shifted away from those independent producers, those producers, and to the broadcast networks and the studios. And so you saw a great conflation in the amount of people in the industry. The deals I was talking about, where producers would have deals with studios, a lot of that went away. They didn't need to do that anymore. They could just sort of hire someone to produce. So the model changed a lot. And in the end, it was a much less democratic sort of distribution of wealth within the industry. And it was the same with the TV series themselves, where producers and studios would make tv, would make series. So my company, we produced the Highlander series. We would sell them the broadcast rights to different TV stations around the world. But we owned the property. We made Nash Bridges for cbs, but CBS had a license fee. We owned the underlying product and we would go and we would sell it around the world. So now that you have the studios able to do that, companies like mine, very few of them exist, which means less jobs, less places for writers and directors to go and set up their own shop and make those projects. Just a very different economics in the industry. Like I said, I'm not the expert. Somebody probably better for you to have a producer who actually was. I was the person who was hired by those people. Yeah, executive. I don't own any of those properties. To be clear, the independent producers, it became a very different model for them. My first producer was an independent Producer. When I went to work for him, he had just won an Oscar for a movie called Babette's Feast. And he was the guy who worked with New Line with Bob Shea back in the day. And they would go out and literally raise money from dentists across the country. They would call these dentists, they would each put $1,000 in, they would make the low budget horror movies and they would distribute them. But the producers were a big part of the ownership of, of those properties, not just a studio now. I guess people still kind of do that and sell those projects to like Netflix, but it's a different model.

[Sunny Bunch]

Yeah, it's much. It's interesting. I've had some of these producers and distributors on and it is such, it's such a different world right now in terms of getting things. Getting things in front of people is always the key. Everybody just wants to. Everybody just wants their thing that they have made to be seen by people, which is always the hard thing. I don't know, the FinCEN stuff is one of these kind of like sneaky, important things that I don't think folks pay enough attention to or understand.

[Representative Laura Friedman]

Along with consolidation, which has also shrunk the job market, sort of the amount of people that are working as development executives working kind of in those support roles. So there has been a lot of consolidation, which is also part of the, you know, the changing of the industry.

[Sunny Bunch]

Yeah, yeah, that's for sure. All right. That was everything I had wanted to ask. I always like to close these interviews by asking if there's anything I should have asked if you think there's anything folks should know about the state of film production, about, you know, kind of what, what you guys are trying to do in terms of making, putting the US On a. On an equal competitive basis with the rest of the world when it comes to these tax credits. What should we have discussed that we did not?

[Representative Laura Friedman]

Well, I guess I'll just say that this is really important to me. It's important to my constituents. You know, I come out of the industry. My husband was an editor. My neighbors and friends, so many of them work in the industry. It's really a lot of what powers my district in Los Angeles, but it's broadly important to, I think, to all of California as our identity. As for tourism, for those ancillary jobs, like I talked about the dry cleaners, the restaurants. When, when Hollywood shrinks, when there's no production, we. It's felt all across Los Angeles. We feel it in the coffee shop. You know, I hear it from coffee Shop owners when there's production versus when there's not. I hear it from dry cleaners, I hear it from so many industries. And I'm the only person that I know of in Congress who worked in the industry, who understands the economics of it and why, why films are shot, where they're shot, who they employ, that, that kind of ripple effect through the economy. And I will also say that there are Republicans who are representing states that now have production, who also get that. And we're in conversations with them and they've been good conversations. So this is not, I think this tax credit is not a pipe dream. It's a serious proposal. It's something that I'm, it's my top priority, people. It's, it's by. It will be bipartisan and I, I think it's something that is important for, for our country, as I said, for the identity of our country, for our ability to tell our own stories. It's an aspirational industry that people from all over the country, you know, we all. Everyone has, knows someone who lives somewhere in this country that wants to be in the creative industries, whether it's video games, whether it's coding, whether it's film. You know, the creative industry is the future. That's the future of our economy. And so I'm working on this every day. Anyone who hears this, who has something to contribute, we're certainly happy to hear from them. I'm really appreciate your interest. I'm happy to come back and update you as we progress. And I just want to thank you for your interest in this and I want to thank you for loving movies. I love movies too. And I'm sorry that you didn't ask about K Pop Demon Hunters and all the other things that I've been watching because I have really good opinions about all this stuff too.

[Sunny Bunch]

Well, you have a 12 year old, is that right?

[Representative Laura Friedman]

I have a 12 year old, so you can believe me. K Pop Demon. I know every song by heart. I will not sing them for you. She could.

[Sunny Bunch]

That's. No, I. Well, I have a 12 year old or I have a 10 year old daughter and she is. We. We spend a lot of time in the car listening to K Pop Demon Hunters amongst other things. We went to the sing along. Did you guys go to the sing along?

[Representative Laura Friedman]

No show?

[Sunny Bunch]

No.

[Representative Laura Friedman]

I want to, but no, I. Evidently I'm being dragged to see Benson Boon Boone in a couple weeks. But I will tell you that what my daughter told me, I didn't know this. Maybe you don't Know this, but there's a law. Did you know that there's actually a law that if you're driving and K Pop Demon Hunter songs or any Taylor Swift song or Olivia Rodrigo comes on the radio. Did you know that adults are not allowed to speak? My daughter told me that this was a law and was a new one on me as a lawmaker. But, you know.

[Sunny Bunch]

That certainly sounds like kid law that has been adjudicated in the kid law courts. I think they won that one years ago, so good for them.

[Representative Laura Friedman]

Yes. I think I was banned from the sing along. She'll have to go with her friends.

[Sunny Bunch]

Yeah, no, it was. Maybe next time we can discuss. We'll discuss the, the, the kids. Kids shows and whatnot. But it is a, it's. It. It's a, it's a thing. It's a real. It's a real phenomenon. The biggest show, biggest. I think the biggest thing that Netflix has ever put out, we could do. Well, I could do 20 minutes on K Pop Demon Hunters right now. I'm gonna stop. I'm gonna stop myself because it's.

[Representative Laura Friedman]

I love it and I love that it was totally unexpected. You know, it just shows you, like, Hollywood doesn't get to decide what the hits are. They never have. You know, it's the public. And that's why, you know, that, that having that creativity and different and variety of voices is really important. I think it's great.

[Sunny Bunch]

Yeah, it's. I mean, look, did not. Not be. Not be too. I mean, this is, this was, this is the great thing about the old kind of independent producer model where you had a bunch of people making a bunch of different things and the studios were like, yeah, that works or that doesn't work, or. And then, you know, audience got to, got to fight it out. But again, that's a, that's. We'll. We'll talk about that next time. We can do that. Representative Friedman, thank you for being on the show today. I really appreciate it.

[Representative Laura Friedman]

Thanks for having me.

[Sunny Bunch]

And make sure, you know, make sure you hit like and subscribe and all that stuff. We don't want to, we don't want to lose anybody. If you enjoyed this, if you found it interesting, and if you learn something about film credits, make sure you share it with a friend. Because I think this is an important issue for people who are interested in the film industry. You know, I think if you care about what is getting made and why it's getting made, you should care about this because it does matter. But thank you. We'll get you back on the show to discuss once we get some movement on this.

[Representative Laura Friedman]

Thank you.

[Sunny Bunch]

All right.

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