← Bulwark Takes
Loading summary
Transcript111 lines
- [00:00]
Sam
Okay. Okay.
- [00:02]
Lauren
Is it over? Is it over, Sam?
- [00:04]
Sam
No, that's just half time. That was act one.
- [00:08]
Lauren
Have you seen the Brutalist? It's a good movie, but there's an actual. They built in an intermission and I felt like that thing could be used.
- [00:18]
Sam
Can you imagine if he came back out here and started all over again? It would be. I think I would, I think I would die. Lauren, you have to unmute before you start talking. This is the year 2025.
- [00:29]
Sarah
Oh my God. I'm the youngest here and I can't unmute.
- [00:33]
Lauren
Hey, Lauren, it's nice to meet you.
- [00:35]
Sarah
Hey, how's it going?
- [00:39]
Sam
So, okay, let's talk about that. I don't even know where to begin. That clocked in at well over an hour and 40 minutes. Longest. It's not a State of the Union. I'm gonna call it a state of Union. I don't give a. I'm calling it longest State of the Union in history. It was a stem winder generously, but, you know, I want to be very upfront about it and then, Sarah, because I think our Overton window shifts a lot with this stuff. And I think we just need to be very clear about this. It was brutally, a brutally dishonest speech. It was filled with complete fabrications, some of which had been almost recently debunked. It was highly partisan in a way that we're not accustomed to for these speeches. These speeches tend to be or should be, or traditionally are efforts to unify the country. It wasn't even, I mean, it started with him mocking Democrats. So it wasn't even close to that. It was Trump. It was Trump. It was ego. It was him as a singular force. It was filled with dishonesty. Doesn't mean it wasn't effective. I want to be very clear about that because I do actually think. And we can get to this, more effective parts. But it was Trump. True, True. Sarah, what are your thoughts?
- [01:53]
Lauren
Well, I thought there were some unifying parts. I do think we are all unified by the ritual humiliation of Marco Rubio. I, I feel like, I felt like the whole room was, was there.
- [02:09]
Sam
I was waiting for that.
- [02:10]
Lauren
Yeah, I, I gotta say, so I, I, I was gonna wait because I can tell you all the things I hated about it. Like, did I hate JD Vance's smug face throughout it? I sure did. Did I hate the fact that he somehow managed to talk about trans stuff far more than he talked about the cost of living, which if you weigh, you know, the Americans priorities, cost of living far outweighs any trans issues. I mean, he probably spent more time just on trans women's sports stuff than on cost of living alone. So.
- [02:45]
Sarah
Yes, I mean, those are his guests too. That's who he brought to the gallery.
- [02:50]
Lauren
Yeah, I could talk about Trump saying that right after we talked about how the guy who got shot and killed at his event, how that was sad, but Trump got saved because he needed to make America great again. Like that kind of egoism. I was like, I find Trump repellent. I find, you know, the people standing behind him killing. Here's the thing though. Trump went for a lot. Like he created like happy moments. Like he went for trying to create these moments of like the terminally ill kid that he is making part of the Secret Service and the guy who he got out of the Russian prison with his 93 year old mother. Like there were actually. And in some ways the way that a standard, you know, State of the Union goes, like, he does break through that with a certain amount of showmanship that I, if people who are. Because look, I can't get used to how dumb he sounds when he talks. Like, I'll never get used to it. Oh, good that we got Joe Criticon, Joe Perdicon. And if you showed that to Republicans like a decade ago, like that speech, they would be like, and you're like, you're going to cheer like a maniac for this guy because that was something that was very much on, on like display was how pumped Republicans were and how demoralized Democrats were. But if you'd show them, you're like, you're gonna cheer like a maniac for this guy. They would have been like, never. Who is that lunatic and what is he even saying? And yet here we are. So anyway, I can, I will talk a little bit more about it and I don't want to be such a downer by saying that I thought it was relatively effective, but I do think he did. There's a lot of showmanship that worked for him and his, his people.
- [04:32]
Sam
Joe, Joe, while we have you, you were in the room. Yeah. Over Trump.
- [04:37]
Joe
I'm now in a tiny sunproof box in the press gallery.
- [04:41]
Sam
All right, well, give us the. That's why it's dark, the glamour of the job here. What was, what was the, what was like in the room?
- [04:53]
Joe
This is like my eighth one of these, covering in person across now four presidencies. Obama, Trump, Biden, now Trump again. And it was just like, it felt like one of those big tent revivals that they do in the south where like Every line he said, there was, like, a. Amen. Yes, sir.
- [05:14]
Sam
Right.
- [05:15]
Joe
And, like, the praise.
- [05:16]
Sarah
So, like, a rally. I feel like that's, like, what every rally.
- [05:19]
Sam
Yeah.
- [05:20]
Joe
He holds feels, like, very much like that. And then, like, the. Like, the Dems were either all super depressed or they just left. Like, Bernie. Bernie wasn't.
- [05:30]
Sarah
They were trying.
- [05:31]
Joe
He just got up and he walked out. And, you know, some of them that had, like, T shirts. I think, like, the. Probably the most awful moment was the first one with Al Green. I noticed Madeline Dean, she. When the sergeant Arms was making his way down the aisle to go over to him, she, like, tapped him, and I. It looked like she mouthed, don't hurt him.
- [05:55]
Sam
Right.
- [05:55]
Joe
And he was just kind of like, oh, I know, but, like, we have to get him out. And I was like. That was just like, a very, like, low moment just for a very, you know, a decreasingly effective body.
- [06:10]
Sam
Joe, tell us quickly, what was Elon like in. In the. As he was sitting in the guest box and seemed a little bit out of place.
- [06:18]
Joe
So he started by, like, every time anything happened, he stood up and was clapping and jumping, and he was staring at the lights and the ceiling and just kind of, like, moving around like he does.
- [06:29]
Sarah
Same.
- [06:30]
Joe
Same thing as the inauguration, but, like, more so. And then, like, you know, after about an hour and a half, he was, like, slumped in his chair. And then when Trump mentioned Mars, he, like, leaned forward and was like, wait, what? And then people started clapping, and he was like, oh. And jumped up and was like, so.
- [06:48]
Sam
Oh.
- [06:48]
Joe
He. He had a, like, brief conversation before it started with Jason Selvig from the Good Liars. I, like, watched them meet, and there was, like, some sheriff who was there, like, as a guest in between them, like, what is happening? So we're gonna try and find out what that conversation was.
- [07:08]
Sam
I want to go quickly because you talked about Al Green and Democrats and Laura, and this is sort of your forte here. But, you know, I was looking at Tim's Twitter feed, and I think, you know, I'm not trying to cut them any favor. I think Tim is right, though, that anything they did would look cringy. There's really no. I mean, this is the ultimate. Yeah. This is the ultimate home field advantage. Right. It's like he's got. He's at the lectern. He's got both his buddies behind him sycophantically clapping there. There's nothing that he's gonna say that they're gonna clap, too. And then they're also high expectations. For them to try to create a scene without totally ruining the decorum. So it's really hard. So.
- [07:48]
Sarah
Yeah. Or Al Green, you know, just like, I want out. I'm old. I don't want to sit through this. No, I think, like, look, if they didn't do anything, right, like, their Democratic base voters are already, like, pretty frustrated with the party that they're not doing more to fight back against Trump. So they had to do something. And, yeah, I don't think there's any way to, like, you know, all whatever you do. I mean, even when Republicans were, you know, heckling Biden during his State of the Union, like, it just comes across as super performative and really cringy. It's like, you know, what can you do? But they had to do something.
- [08:25]
Sam
Sarah, let me talk. Go back to you about this because you've been doing all these focus groups about voters and they're changing, sort of softening appreciation for Trump and the Trump voters who are getting a little bit frustrated with it. What do you make of his messaging tonight? I mean, we talked a little bit about how we went, really, for the culture war stuff. Right. Less so for the economics. And even on the eggs, it was sort of like, well, that was Joe Biden's fault. Right. Like that. That was very notable to me. But really, it was just sort of the focus. Right. It was so much cultural up front. He didn't even get into immigration until I noticed that he didn't touch immigration until it was late. Yeah. It was like an hour in before he started to get into immigration, which was ostensibly his number one issue. So, I mean, as someone who's been sort of on top of all the focus group data, like, what did you make of the structure of the piece? And if you felt like he was communicating to win those people back who might be drifting.
- [09:20]
Lauren
Yeah. I mean, it actually struck me, your point about how he blamed Joe Biden for X. He didn't just. He blamed Joe Biden for everything, actually, when it came to the economy. And it seemed very much like on. They didn't want to talk about the economy that much because it's not going very well right now. And so I, you know, I have, I just, I have. Sorry, Sam. I have a piece in the Atlantic right now talking about the focus groups. I know, I know. I don't even. I own this publication. Why am I writing for other ones other than, like, their editors are more aggressive about making me do it?
- [09:54]
Sam
I don't know, Sarah, I've been petitioning you to Write a piece for weeks.
- [09:59]
Lauren
I know, I know. I don't know what to say anyway, but, but so that we've been. The thing is, and I want to make this very clear, the vast majority of Trump voters are, like, here for it. They want to drink liberal tears until their, you know, thirst is quenched. And it's not quenched yet, and it's.
- [10:17]
Sam
Impossible to quench it. Yes.
- [10:19]
Lauren
Yeah, right. And so, so that is most people, and they are. When Trump sort of in his windup, he was doing the. We've done more than most people do in eight years. We've done it fast, and people are responding to that. Stan, the episode you did with me, we listen to voters say, like, well, he's doing something. I can see action. But there's this other type of voter, and it's not maga. It's not a MAGA voter. It's a person who is like, my shit's too expensive. I'm going to vote for Trump. Because I don't know, I don't really. People say a lot of stuff about him. I just think he's. I think he's a businessman. And so, like, I want him to do something for me, but those voters are deeply impatient. And so they're the ones that right now are being like, but is he doing anything on the economy? It feels like it's getting worse. And. And so I feel like that is who he's soft with. And they know, they're seeing that he has his worst numbers ever with voters on the economy, because the economy that ate Joe Biden is now eating Donald Trump.
- [11:12]
Sam
Sebastian, no, we're gonna, we're gonna go to Alyssa Slotkin now. We are delivering the Democratic response.
- [11:19]
Joe
I'm gonna go down to statuary.
- [11:21]
Lauren
Sorry I yelled. You yelled at you.
- [11:23]
Sam
Sebastian, we love you. Thank you for doing that. Let's go to Slotkin.
- [11:26]
Lauren
Bye, Joe.
- [11:26]
Alyssa Slotkin
On 9 11, when the twin Towers came down before the smoke cleared, I knew I wanted to make a life in national security. I was recruited by the CIA and did three tours in Iraq alongside the military. In between, I worked at the White House under President Bush and President Obama, two very different leaders who both believed that America is exceptional. You can find that same sense of patriotism here in Wyandotte, Michigan, where I'm speaking from tonight. It's a working class town just south of Detroit. President Trump and I both won here in November. It might not seem like it, but plenty of places like this still exist across the United States. Places where people believe that if you work hard and play by the rules. You should do well and your kids should do better. It reminds me of how I grew up. My dad was a lifelong Republican, my mom a lifelong Democrat. But it was never a big deal because we had shared values that were bigger than any one party. We just went through another fraught election season. Americans made it clear that prices are too high and that the government needs to be more responsive to their needs. America wants change, but there's a responsible way to make change and a reckless way. And we can make that change without forgetting who we are as a country and as a democracy. So that's what I'm going to lay out tonight. Because whether you're from Wyandotte or Wichita, most Americans share three core beliefs. That the middle class is the engine of our country, that strong national security protects us from harm, and that our democracy, no matter how messy, is unparalleled and worth fighting for. Let's start with the economy. Michigan literally invented the middle class. The revolutionary idea that you could work at an auto plant and afford the car you are building. That's the American dream. And in order to expand and protect the middle class, we have to do a few basic things. We need to bring down the price of things we spend the most money on groceries, housing, health care. We need to make more things in America with good paying union jobs and bring our supply chains back home from places like China. We need to give American businesses the certainty they need to invest and create the jobs of the future. And we need a tax system that's fair for people who don't happen to make a billion dollars. Look, the President talked a big game on the economy, but it's always important to read the fine print. So do his plans actually help Americans get ahead? Not even close. President Trump is trying to deliver an unprecedented giveaway to his billionaire friends. He's on the hunt to find trillions of dollars to pass along to the wealthiest in America. And to do that, he's going to make you pay in every part of your life. Grocery and home prices are going up, not down, and he hasn't laid out a credible plan to deal with either of those. His tariffs on allies like Canada will raise prices on energy, lumber and cars and start a trade war that will hurt manufacturing and farmers. Your premiums and prescriptions will cost more because the math on his proposals doesn't work without going after your health care. Meanwhile, for those keeping score, the national debt is going up, not down. And if he's not careful, he could walk us right into A recession. And one more thing. In order to pay for his plan, he could very well come after your retirement. The Social Security, Medicare, and VA benefits you worked your whole life to earn. The President claims he won't, but Elon Musk just called Social Security the biggest Ponzi scheme of all time. While we're on the subject of Elon Musk, is there anyone in America who is comfortable with him and his gang of 20 year olds using their own computer servers to poke through your tax returns, your health information, and your bank accounts? No oversight, no protections against cyber attack, no guardrails on what they do with your private data. We need a more efficient government. You want to cut waste? I'll help you do it. But change doesn't need to be chaotic or make us less safe. The mindless firing of people who work to protect our nuclear weapons, keep our planes from crashing, and conduct the research that finds the cure for cancer, only to rehire them two days later. No CEO in America could do that without being summarily fired. Okay, so we've talked about economic security. How about national security? Let's start with the border. As someone who spent my whole career protecting our homeland, every country deserves to know who and what is coming across its border, period. Democrats and Republicans should all be for that. But securing the border without actually fixing our broken immigration system is dealing with the symptom and not the disease. America is a nation of immigrants. We need a functional system keyed to the needs of our economy that allows vetted people to come and work here legally. So I look forward to the President's plan on that, because here's the thing. Today's world is deeply interconnected. Migration, cyber threats, AI, environmental destruction, terrorism. One nation cannot face these issues alone. We need friends in all corners, and our safety depends on it. President Trump loves to say peace through strength. That's actually a line he stole from Ronald Reagan. But let me tell you, after the spectacle that just took place in the Oval Office last week, Reagan must be rolling in his grave. We all want an end to the war in Ukraine, but Reagan understood that true strength required America to combine our military and economic might with. With moral clarity. And that scene in the Oval Office wasn't just a bad episode of reality tv. It summed up Trump's whole approach to the world. He believes in cozying up to dictators like Vladimir Putin and kicking our friends like the Canadians in the teeth. He sees American leadership as merely a series of real estate transactions. As a Cold War kid, I'm thankful it was Reagan and not Trump in office in the 1980s, Trump would have lost us the Cold War. Donald Trump's actions suggest that in his heart, he doesn't believe we're an exceptional nation. He clearly doesn't think we should lead the world. Look, America is not perfect. But I stand with the majority of Americans who believe we are still exceptional, unparalleled. And I would rather have American leadership over Chinese or Russian leadership any day of the week. Because for generations, America has offered something better. Our security and our prosperity. Yes, but our democracy, our very system of government, has been the aspiration of the world. And right now, it's at risk. It's at risk when the President decides you can pick and choose what rules you want to follow, when he ignores court orders and the Constitution itself, or when elected leaders stand by and just let it happen. But it's also at risk when the President pits Americans against each other, when he demonizes those who are different and tells certain people they shouldn't be included. Because America is not just a patch of land between two oceans. We are more than that. Generations have fought and died to secure the fundamental rights that define us. Those rights and the fight for them make us who we are. We're a nation of strivers, risk takers, innovators. And we are never satisfied. That is America's superpower. And look, I've lived and worked in many countries. I've seen democracies flicker out. I've seen what life is like when a government is rigged. You can't open a business without paying off a corrupt official. You can't criticize the guys in charge without getting a knock at the door in the middle of the night. So as much as we need to make our government more responsive to our lives today, don't for one moment fool yourself that democracy isn't precious and worth saving. But how do we actually do that? I know a lot of you have been asking that question. First, don't tune out. It's easy to be exhausted, but America needs you now more than ever. If previous generations had not fought for this democracy, where would we be today? Second, hold your elected officials, including me, accountable. Watch how they're voting. Go to town halls and demand they take action that's as American as apple pie. Third, organize. Pick just one issue you're passionate about and engage. And doom scrolling doesn't count. Join a group that cares about your issue and act. And if you can't find one, start one. Some of the most important movements in our history have come from the bottle up in closing, we all know that our country is going through something right now. We're not sure what the next day is going to hold, let alone the next decade. But this isn't the first time we've experienced significant and tumultuous change as a country. I'm a student of history, and we've gone through periods of political instability before, and ultimately we've chosen to keep changing this country for the better. But every single time, we've only gotten through those moments because of two engaged citizens and principled leaders. Engaged citizens who do a little bit more than they're used to doing to fight for the things that they care about, and principled leaders who are ready to receive the ball and do something about it. So thank you tonight for caring about your country just by watching you qualify as engaged citizens. And I promise that I and my fellow Democrats will do everything in our power to be the principal leaders that you deserve. Good night, everyone.
- [21:25]
Sam
Okay, I. I know I'm reading the responses in our chat and people are not, like, overly moved by it, but.
- [21:33]
Lauren
I thought that was pretty good.
- [21:35]
Sam
I mean, relative to the baseline of what a response would be.
- [21:39]
Sarah
Usually these things are. I mean, the goal is to just not end up on SNL this weekend, which she cleared that bar. But I think she's one of the more like effective communicators in the Democratic Party, especially on issues like democracy, which is, like, such a challenge for them to talk about in a way that just doesn't sound so overbearing. I thought she did a good job about that there. And on the economy, too. I don't know, like, in a way, they're setting up for it. Kind of reminds me of how we were with Biden just a few years ago. Right? Like the Biden White House trying to tell people, just stick with my plan, everything's going to be okay. And she's kind of like, framing it that way. Like, Trump might talk a big game about the economy, but, like, that's not what you're feeling right now.
- [22:20]
Sam
I liked, I liked her ideas. She had, you know, what was like four, you know, pieces of advice for what to do going forward. You know, these speeches are so 30,000 foot and unrelatable often, but by doing that, she actually seemed to be communicating directly with people who auction. Clearly, Democratic voters are struggling to figure out how best to channel their action. She was giving them concrete suggestions. I would suggest Doom scrolling is one of them. Personally, it looks great for me, especially if you're on the bulwark and you're just checking out our feeds and subscribing. It's a great way to get through the day. But I don't know, Sarah. I mean, the bar so low, like, she didn't do a Katie Brit. But beyond that, I actually thought that was a fairly effective response.
- [23:03]
Lauren
Yeah, I mean, look, the responses really only get attention when they're terrible. Like, the things that are. The things that are memorable about the responses are like, please, somebody get Marco Rubio a glass of water. Like, what is wrong with Katie Britt? Is she having a stroke right now? And then, like, whatever was going on in these other ones, like, we don't remember them because they were just, like, perfunctory.
- [23:23]
Sam
There's the weird Bobby Jindal one where he was walking through his home.
- [23:26]
Lauren
Oh, yeah, Bobby Jindle. See, like, this is the thing, though. These are career killers. Like, people. I mean, Marco Ruby, I guess, did okay, but a lot of people. He recovered.
- [23:36]
Sarah
It took him a while to be.
- [23:39]
Sam
Richly humiliated at tonight's age.
- [23:41]
Lauren
That's right. That's right. Yeah. Recovered. So I do think that here's what. Here's what I think happened tonight for sure, Alyssa Slotkin, which is. I think that Democrats are looking for some leaders, and I think that they probably look at her tonight and was like, well, that was good. Like, that felt solid. Maybe you should talk more. Alyssa Slotkin from Michigan, who had a Republican dad and a Democratic mom and seems to embody something sort of decent. And actually something Lauren said, I think is really true. You know, I. Much to the annoyance of my friends in the democracy sort of space, I'm constantly talking about how Americans don't care about democracy. Quad democracy. Right. And so if you want to tell a better story about democracy, you need to tell a better story about America. Like, it's always been really about saying, like, why is America great? And tapping into something that people kind of have the sense of, like, well, what is democracy? It's like this thing that we do here in America. And she found, like, Democrats have talked a lot about democracy and yet not found about America.
- [24:49]
Sam
She reduced it, to quote, trump would have lost the Cold War. Yeah, I mean, that's the line, right? Like, there was a very easy way to talk about democracy. Like, he would have, you know, surrendered to Russia.
- [24:59]
Lauren
Well, the people who think Liz Cheney lost the election for Kamala Harris, which boo that piece of analysis, they're not going to like the whole lionizing of Ronald Reagan Democrat right there. But people like me, you know, I'm.
- [25:16]
Sam
You love it. Let's Go back to Trump quickly because obviously way more attention is going to be on him. Rightfully so. He's the President. I think if there were places where I think there might be weakness and I think we're generally in the same boat. Right. We think that it was a, an absolute smorgasbord of lies and partisanship, but probably did the job that he wanted to. But there were a couple places that I think ultimately there might be some weak spots. One for me was when he was addressing the farmers and anyone else who was going to be affected by the tariffs and he was like, maybe a little bit of adjustment period. Like, I feel like that line might come back to potentially haunt a little disturbance, but we'll be okay with that. You know, that one could be sure. Go have fun, farmers. And then the second one was Social Security. Now look, the Social Security section was three minutes of just absolute lies. It's been debunked. We're not paying 150 year old Social Security benefits. It's just the way it's accounted. But him getting up there and talking about Social Security in the context of cutting it, whether you want to say it's for fraud or not, is not the easiest tightrope to walk. And Slotkin, in a way that no one else has done, did bring up Elon Musk calling Social Security a Ponzi scheme, which he did do live on Twitter. And that's not something that tends to end well for a public on Joe Rogan. Oh, sorry, yeah, you did watch site. You watch.
- [26:49]
Sarah
Come on, come on. Don't assign me to Joe Rogan if you can't quote it properly.
- [26:53]
Sam
So that, to me, the Social Security thing I think is gonna be, you know, that's the soft underbelly here.
- [27:00]
Sarah
Yeah. And I mean, she clearly went after Musk pretty hard too. Like even just as strongly she did with Trump. So I think Democrats clearly view the Social Security and Musk and all the firings with Doge is kind of this soft spot for Trump and Republicans, you know, and we've been talking about this with, with all the Doge stuff too. Like, it's not just people that in D.C. that are feeling it in terms of losing their jobs. It's people all around the country. And I think that they view that as something that they can totally tap into over the coming months.
- [27:36]
Sam
Well, Sarah, you and I have talked about it and the question I guess keeps coming back is like, is it worthwhile to focus your fire on Musk and let Trump skate a little bit by Doing so. And I don't know. I think you could do both. Me, I think you can do.
- [27:50]
Lauren
I think. I think this is a weird thing that people do. I mean, maybe what we have to do is, like, Benefer, Trump, and Musk, and we'll call them.
- [27:59]
Sam
What would that be?
- [28:00]
Lauren
Mump, I think.
- [28:01]
Sam
Oh, no, Russ.
- [28:02]
Sarah
Oh, no.
- [28:03]
Lauren
Mump.
- [28:04]
Sarah
I don't like any of those. They all make me really uncomfortable.
- [28:08]
Lauren
I. I do think. I mean, I. I think it's okay.
- [28:12]
Sam
So I'm gonna stop.
- [28:14]
Lauren
I mean, I think it's. I think it's good to tie them together. I don't. I think that Trump sees Elon as a heat shield. I think Elon can be a bit of a heat shield. He is, in fact, the unelected bureaucrat.
- [28:24]
Sam
That was crazy. That was. That's when they're complaining about unelected, because apparently a bunch of Democrats in the audience were, like, pointing at him, being like, no, he's right there.
- [28:32]
Lauren
Yeah, yeah.
- [28:33]
Sam
Sorry. Go on. I interrupt. You go ahead.
- [28:35]
Lauren
No, no, that's. That's okay. I just. Yeah, I. I just. I really don't think that there's any reason why you can't go after both of them at the same time. And also, anything that's bad for Musk is going to be bad for Trump. The only thing that is that you could say is like, oh, well, if it gets so bad for Musk, then Trump can cut him loose.
- [28:51]
Alyssa Slotkin
Let that. Let.
- [28:52]
Lauren
Fine, great. Let that happen, and let them have that fight that feels. That feels like a good place to be. So I. I don't understand. People get this, like, paralysis by analysis where they, like, ooh, who do we go after? I'm like, just do. Just do it. Hey, I do the thing I do want to say, though, about the speech going back to some of what. Why I was sitting there being like, ugh, this is sort of effective. Is like, the part where he. I mean, the speechwriters could basically just take the night off because they just kind of crept from a bunch of old rally speeches and then. But they did this part in the middle around USAID spending, where they just did all of the, you know, oh, here's all the silly things, and I'm going to, like, mispronounce the name. Who. Who's heard of any of these countries?
- [29:34]
Sam
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [29:36]
Lauren
I do think that's pretty effective for Americans. Like, it just is. Americans are like. And it doesn't even matter. Sort of left, right and center. Like, people are like, why are we doing these Things in other countries, I don't want to. I want to help people. And, like, I thought that was an effective part, too.
- [29:52]
Sam
Yeah.
- [29:53]
Sarah
Slotkin, like, kind of addressed that. Like, she tried to say in Slotkin's response, like, we are. What'd she say for Reign? She was like, we're all for reining in. You know, no one wants there to be, you know, abuse in the government. No one wants the government to be ineffective or inefficient. But I agree, Sarah. I thought that that was one of the strongest parts of his speech and also something that you can totally see just, like, popping off online and.
- [30:17]
Sam
Right.
- [30:18]
Sarah
Millions of people who do not tune into the speech tonight are going to see that, and they're going to remember that for tonight.
- [30:24]
Sam
You also have to be super plugged in to be like, wait, no, it's not transgender mites. It's transgenic mice. And, like, that's totally different. And it's like. And then also aids, male circumcision in Mozambique. Like, what the. It's like, no, it's actually to, like, stop the spread of deadly infectious diseases.
- [30:39]
Sarah
Right.
- [30:40]
Sam
Sexual transmitted diseases. And, like, this is bait. I mean, honestly, it's just bait. And. And they do it very effectively. Right. Like, there's merits for all this stuff, but they would love nothing more than to have their opponents be like, actually, we should spend, you know, $50 million on this stuff, and it really does matter. And, like, you know, there's a reason they went after USA first. Let's put it that way. There's a reason they went after USA first. And Democrats, you know, maybe they could have prepared for it better. The foreign policy community obviously could have prepared for it better, but ultimately, this was, like, the easiest layup of a fight for them, and they, frankly, have won it. Right? That's just the fact.
- [31:18]
Lauren
Speaking of foreign policy a little bit, I got to tell you, I was relieved. I thought he might pull out of NATO, like, speech, and instead he read that Zelensky letter. What do you make of that?
- [31:32]
Sam
Well, he didn't say he signed the deal, but it did to me, was a huge. If you're. Look, put it this way, if you actually are supportive of the US not abandoning Ukraine, like, this was a. About as good as it could have gone, right? In theory, he could have gone up there, be like, we're done. Not a single cent more for Ukraine. He didn't say that. He read the letter. He didn't say he's going to sign the deal, but he read the letter. He was appreciative. Of it. He did have to temper it by saying he also wants to talk to Russo. It's like classic Trump, but in terms of foreign. I mean, it was. Foreign policy was such a small portion of the speech for a second, I.
- [32:11]
Sarah
Didn'T even think he was gonna get to it because it was like, what?
- [32:13]
Sam
Well, yeah, because we were an hour 30.
- [32:16]
Sarah
I was like, it's time.
- [32:18]
Sam
I'm ready to give up on the speech. He did talk about Greenland and Panama and then the Afghanistan withdraw, which he said, I supported getting out, just not the way. But I thought the Ukraine stuff, to your point, Sarah, it could have gone totally sideways. And that suggests to me that there is hope for some sort of salvaging of whatever it is that they're trying to do. Yeah, but it's clearly not his central focus.
- [32:41]
Lauren
It was gross in the sense that basically Zelinsky gave Trump the optics moment he wanted. That was like a bit of sort of not groveling exactly, but like he gave Trump exactly what he wanted to read out loud, which I always. I find disgusting, the way obviously that Trump treats Zelensky. But I think I don't want the United States to abandon Ukraine. And so I was sort of glad. And I was. I was. I was. I thought he might be like, we're pulling out of NATO or, you know, Europe. You're on your own. And, like, so none of that happened. And I'm glad about that.
- [33:21]
Sam
I wouldn't be surprised if we get some reporting about how the speech came together, like people saying, you cannot say.
- [33:27]
Sarah
That as he was walking into the rotunda, sir.
- [33:31]
Sam
Mr. President, it might not be smart. All right, let's. This one night has gone way too long already. Let's wrap this up with a. Not a prediction so much as reality check. These things, to me, can be overanalyzed in the moment as having, you know, great significance. And ultimately, I challenge either of you to remember one line that Joe Biden said. Maybe Biden's not the worst, best example, but one line from any of these speeches that kind of stands the test of time. Other than Bill Clinton there. A big government's over. Will we have. Will this have any sort of lasting effect? And by lasting, I mean more than just a week? Lauren.
- [34:11]
Sarah
No, I don't think these things ever do. I mean, if you think back to, like, the last State of the Union, which was Biden, which was like this big moment for him to show, right? He was alive, he was back, and, yeah, that didn't really work out well for him. So, so no, these things, these things, you know, really don't, they don't matter that much.
- [34:34]
Sam
Yeah. Sarah.
- [34:35]
Lauren
I went on TV the next day after the Biden thing and I was like, this is going to be the beginning of the Biden comeback. I was so desperate for him to like be on his toes. But here's the thing and this is what, why it's like I don't blame Democrats for being annoyed or you know, wanting to shout at the lies, but like what do you remember about Joe Biden's speech? You gave Joe Biden his best moment by Marjorie Taylor Greene shouting at him and him being able to sort of parry back and forth. And Trump, you know, it has that sort of like what's the wedding singer? When he's like, well I have the microphone and you don't. Right. Like he's got the podium, he's commanding the room and like it's a tough spot for Democrats. I think like what's going to get played up tomorrow are like some of the feel good moments that Trump did that he sort of staged effectively and then the Democrats behaving badly and like, I don't wish that to be the takeaway because the takeaway should be everything he said was a lie basically. But I think, I don't know, it was more effective than I wanted him to be.
- [35:44]
Sam
It was effective. Again, I think we're all sort of on the same page here. The these. He's very good in the showmanship elements of the presidency. Yeah, he's very good at lying, frankly, and getting away with it. And ultimately I don't think this ultimately matters because tomorrow we'll either see the stock market continue to fall because of these tariffs or he'll come with some half baked deal for Canada, Mexico and that'll be the story.
- [36:13]
Lauren
I'm sorry, just one last thing that just really hacks me off about this though. Like the way that Republicans were cla. This is like North Korea level.
- [36:20]
Sam
Like the way that they're JD behind the JD stuff behind him was unreal.
- [36:26]
Lauren
They're all like, like I want to.
- [36:29]
Sarah
Cam on like Nancy Mace for the entire thing.
- [36:33]
Sam
They love this though. I mean even during the terror stuff, I think it was reported only three of them were not clapping for the recip the idea of reciprocal terrors. Even though to a person they would all say we don't support the terrorists, but they were just clapping for it. It's party personality. All right, thank you guys both mostly to our people in the comments, apologies for not getting to your questions, but it's late and we had to sit through about. About an hour and 45 minutes of Trump. Thank you for tuning in. We do generally appreciate it. We try to do these things to at least give you guys some quick insight into how we view these events. And as always, do subscribe to our YouTube feed. Stuff like this pops up. We have a lot of stuff on the feed. It's a great place to get good material from the Bulwark. Lauren, Sarah, thanks for enduring this with us. Really appreciate it. We'll see you all later.
- [37:25]
Lauren
Bye, guys.
- [37:26]
Sam
Take care. See you guys.