Tucker Carlson Looked Her in the Eyes and Lied

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Tucker Carlson Looked Her in the Eyes and Lied

Podcast: Bulwark Takes — The Bulwark
Date: May 4, 2026
Host/Commentator: Will Saletan
Featured Subject: Tucker Carlson’s NYT Interview

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode focuses on Tucker Carlson’s recent two-part New York Times interview—described by Will Saletan as Carlson’s “apology tour” after supporting Donald Trump. Saletan’s main goal is to demonstrate, with concrete interview segments, why Carlson cannot be trusted, specifically highlighting moments where Carlson appears sincere, only to contradict himself, obfuscate, or dismiss accountability.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Denial and Contradictions: The Antichrist Remark

• Tucker Carlson is confronted with having called Trump the Antichrist, which he denies.

• The podcast plays back both the interviewer’s question and Carlson’s own words, underlining the contradiction.

  • Quote [02:10]:

    "I know that those words never left my lips because I'm not sure I fully understand what the Antichrist is."
    — Tucker Carlson

• Saletan calls out the gaslighting—showing the clip where Carlson clearly analogizes Trump to the Antichrist mere weeks prior.

  • Quote [02:17]:

    “Those words never left my lips, he says—but you saw them, right? He said it on April 15. That is less than three weeks ago.”
    — Will Saletan

2. Platitudes vs. Practice: Bigotry & Antisemitism

• Carlson professes religious objections to antisemitism and bigotry.

  • Quote [03:08]:

    “I have temperamental and religious objections to antisemitism or any hate or discrimination based on bloodline...against Christian theology...against my personal ethics.”
    — Tucker Carlson

• Yet, when questioned about giving a platform to Nick Fuentes (a white nationalist), he laughs off Fuentes’s racism as “naughty.”

  • Quote [04:00]:

    “He said naughty things about this, that or the other thing. Okay, I mean, whatever. Okay, I'm naughty for talking to Fuentes. But Nick Fuentes said something naughty that I disagreed with.”
    — Tucker Carlson

  • Saletan’s commentary [04:12]:

    “Carlson thinks the bigotry is funny. But if you just saw the part where he talked about his deep religious objections, you might get suckered into thinking that's who he really is.”
    — Will Saletan

3. Immigration & Dehumanizing Language

• Carlson’s language towards immigrants and minorities is invoked.

  • He denies, then tries to minimize, having called Iraqis “semiliterate, primitive monkeys.”
  • Quote [05:09]:

    “Oh, I did not say that in 2018.”
    — Tucker Carlson

  • The interviewer corrects him to 2008.

• Saletan points out Carlson’s selective memory and quick defensiveness.

  • Commentary [05:15]:

    “He’s kind of blocked out of his head this disgusting thing he said.”
    — Will Saletan

4. War, Violence, and Shifting Principles

• Carlson reflects critically on Trump’s militarism (regarding Iran), calling it “a display of male power.”

  • Quote [05:48]:

    “Well, first of all, it’s a display of male power. Send the bombs in, kill the bad people.”
    — Tucker Carlson

• Yet, shortly after, he suggests drug legalization is a plot to lower “testosterone” and quell male rebellion.

  • Quote [06:08]:

    “[Trump] is apparently going to make weed legal just so we can lower testosterone levels even more. Just make people more passive…have some more benzos.”
    — Tucker Carlson

  • Saletan’s commentary [06:26]:

    “Now we're back to what Carlson really believes, which is that the President wants to drug us to take down our precious, precious testosterone.”
    — Will Saletan

5. Selective Moral Outrage: Killing Civilians

• Carlson strongly condemns civilian deaths—when by Israel.

  • Quote [08:22]:

    “Are you allowed to kill people who've committed no crime? No. Super simple. You’re not allowed to do that under no moral standard. ... It’s not fine.”
    — Tucker Carlson

• He criticizes American officials for downplaying civilian deaths.

  • Quote [08:41]:

    “That's the language of genocide, which results—and this is the lesson of the Holocaust—in genocide itself.”
    — Tucker Carlson

• Yet, when discussing Russian atrocities in Ukraine, or Assad’s in Syria, he downplays or rationalizes their actions:

  • Regarding Russia’s war in Ukraine:

    • Quote [09:20]:

      “That is my view.” (On siding with Russia over Ukraine)
      — Tucker Carlson

    • Quote [09:33]:

      “What he does in Ukraine ...is not more significant to me than what gas costs.”
      — Tucker Carlson

  • Regarding Assad in Syria:

    • Quote [10:16]:

      “I don’t have strong feelings about Assad one way or the other. Apparently he’s protected the Christians, so I’m grateful for that as a Christian…”
      — Tucker Carlson

• Saletan recaps: Carlson's moral compass is situational and self-serving.

6. On Islam and Muslims: Contradictory Sentiments

• Carlson criticizes Trump for mocking Islam and claims to respect all faiths.

  • Quote [11:09]:

    “I don’t think you should mock people’s faith.”
    — Interviewer/Commentator
    “I don’t care if it’s Judaism or Christianity or Islam.”
    — Tucker Carlson

• Yet, in a 2017 clip, he warns against “importing a massive Muslim minority.”

  • Quote [11:28]:

    "If you really cared about America, you wouldn’t want it to become Europe... You wouldn’t import a massive Muslim minority into your country..." — Interviewer/Commentator (quoting Carlson’s show)

7. Conspiracy Thinking and Supernatural Claims

• Carlson alludes to a conspiracy regarding "the assassination of Charlie Kirk".

  • Quote [12:16]:

    “Charlie was murdered by a lone gunman.” (delivered sarcastically)
    — Tucker Carlson

  • Suggests FBI cover-up.

• Claims Trump has a “supernatural component.”

  • Quote [12:46]:

    “I've experienced this myself. You spend a day with Trump and sort of like you’re in this kind of dreamland... may be a supernatural component to it.”
    — Tucker Carlson

8. Vaccine Skepticism as a Finale

• Carlson dismisses the safety and efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines.

  • Quote [13:09]:

    “If you think the vax is safe and effective. I don’t know what to tell you. Like, have you not been paying attention?”
    — Tucker Carlson

• Saletan’s summation:

  • Quote [13:17]:

    “It's not the vaccines that are phony. It's him.”
    — Will Saletan

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

| Time | Speaker | Quote | |---------|--------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:10 | Tucker Carlson | “Those words never left my lips… I’m not sure I fully understand what the Antichrist is.” | | 03:08 | Tucker Carlson | “I have temperamental and religious objections to antisemitism…” | | 04:00 | Tucker Carlson | “He said naughty things about this, that or the other thing. Okay, I mean, whatever.” | | 05:48 | Tucker Carlson | “First of all, it’s a display of male power. Send the bombs in, kill the bad people.” | | 06:08 | Tucker Carlson | “Trump is apparently going to make weed legal… lower testosterone levels even more…” | | 08:22 | Tucker Carlson | “Super simple. You’re not allowed to do that under no moral standard.” | | 09:33 | Tucker Carlson | “What he does in Ukraine … is not more significant to me than what gas costs…” | | 10:16 | Tucker Carlson | “Apparently [Assad]’s protected the Christians, so I’m grateful for that as a Christian…” | | 11:28 | Commentator | “You wouldn’t import a massive Muslim minority into your country…” (Carlson’s earlier position) | | 12:16 | Tucker Carlson | “Charlie was murdered by a lone gunman.” (sarcastic tone) | | 12:46 | Tucker Carlson | “There may be a supernatural component to [Trump]. I’m not a theologian, but it’s real.” | | 13:09 | Tucker Carlson | “If you think the vax is safe and effective… have you not been paying attention?” | | 13:17 | Will Saletan | “It’s not the vaccines that are phony. It’s him.” |

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• [00:36] - Saletan introduces the NYT Carlson interview and setup.
• [01:43]–[02:17] – The “Antichrist” denial incident and original quote.
• [03:08]–[04:12] – Bigotry, antisemitism, and the Nick Fuentes exchange.
• [04:37]–[05:15] – Immigration rhetoric and the “primitive monkeys” controversy.
• [05:48]–[06:26] – Carlson’s views on militarism, testosterone, and drug policy.
• [08:08]–[10:37] – Killing civilians: Israel, Russia, Assad, and selective outrage.
• [11:05]–[11:41] – On Islam: professed respect versus previous fear-mongering.
• [12:10]–[12:34] – Kirk assassination conspiracy.
• [12:46]–[13:09] – “Supernatural” claims about Trump and vaccine skepticism.
• [13:17] – Saletan’s closing remarks: the true untrustworthiness of Carlson.

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Tone and Style

• Sharp, direct, and often sardonic—Saletan employs a critical, almost exasperated tone, highlighting contradictions and inconsistencies in Carlson's statements.
• Frequent use of direct audio evidence and pointed commentary underscores the critique.

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Summary:
Will Saletan deconstructs Tucker Carlson’s persona, demonstrating with concrete interview moments that apparent sincerity is merely episodic and often contradicted by his own words. Through themes of denial, bigotry, shifting principles, selective moral outrage, conspiratorial thinking, and vaccine skepticism, Saletan concludes that Carlson is fundamentally unreliable—and it’s not the world that’s phony, but Carlson himself.

Transcript

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Give it a try. Come join our sweat sesh on TikTok. Hey, it's Will Salatan from the Bulwark. So this weekend the New York Times posted a two hour interview. It's actually a two part interview with, with Tucker Carlson. It's part of his apology tour. So he's apologizing for having supported Donald Trump because Trump promised not to get us into wars and then he got us into a war. Right. And there are moments in this interview when Carlson seems totally sincere. He seems like he's making a lot of sense. And what I want to show you is why you can't trust those moments and you can't trust him. So let's start with a part of the interview where Carlson talks about whether Trump is the Antichrist. Okay, so this is weird, but I want to show you this part because Carlson denies that he said something and then the Times plays video of him saying it. Watch.

[Interviewer (Lulu Garcia Navarro)]

And then on a recent show, you went further saying, here's a leader who's mocking the gods of his ancestors, mocking the God of gods and exalting himself above them. Could this be the Antichrist?

[Tucker Carlson]

Christ, I actually did not say, could this be the Antichrist?

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Here's a leader who's mocking the gods of his ancestors, mocking the God of

[Tucker Carlson]

gods and exalting himself above them.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Could this be the Antichrist? Well, who knows?

[Tucker Carlson]

I don't know where that comes from. But I know that those words never left my lips because I'm not sure I fully understand what the Antichrist is.

[Will Saletan]

Those words never left my lips, he says, But. But you saw them, right? You saw him say it and he didn't say it 10 years ago. You can see on the timestamp, he said it on April 15. That is less than three weeks ago. But he says he couldn't have said it because it's not what he believes. He, he doesn't know enough to say it. He claims. And this, this is the fundamental problem with Carlson. At any moment, he appears, he appears to sincerely believe Something. But if you keep watching him, you start to see that those moments are unreliable because at other moments he says. And he probably believes exactly the opposite. So let's go through some examples from the interview. Here's one about bigotry.

[Tucker Carlson]

I have temperamental and religious objections to antisemitism or any hate or discrimination based on bloodline that is against Christian theology. It's against my personal ethics.

[Will Saletan]

See, that sounds really sincere. And at that moment, it probably is sincere. But then you keep watching and you see stuff like this. Watch Carlson chuckle. He's going to chuckle when the interviewer, Lulu Garcia Navarro, brings up Nick Fuentes, who is an overt bigot and who Carlson hosted on his show.

[Interviewer (Lulu Garcia Navarro)]

You also have Nick Fuentes, the far right white nationalist influencer who's called Hitler effing Cool. I can tell you don't want to talk about Fuentes.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, I don't.

[Will Saletan]

I don't have a lot to say. Let me.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Okay.

[Tucker Carlson]

He said naughty things about this, that or the other thing. Okay. I mean, whatever. Okay, I'm naughty for talking to Fuentes. But Nick Fuentes said something naughty that I disagreed with. He made fun of things that. I don't think you heard the word naughty.

[Will Saletan]

He keeps saying Fuentes is naughty. See, Carlson thinks the bigotry. He thinks that bigotry is funny. But if you just saw the part where he talked about his deep religious objections to discrimination, you might get suckered into thinking that's who he really is. And then in the second part of the interview, Garcia Navarro brings up a few other things.

[Interviewer (Lulu Garcia Navarro)]

Carlson said, you've denigrated immigrants, saying that they make our country poorer and dirtier and more divided. And you've long warned that immigrants are going to replace what you call legacy Americans.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Well, they have.

[Tucker Carlson]

The overwhelming majority of new jobs in the last five years have gone to immigrants, not Americans.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

So. But wait, let me debate.

[Interviewer (Lulu Garcia Navarro)]

Actually, yeah, but you called Iraqis semiliterate, primitive monkeys. I mean, you use language that many.

[Tucker Carlson]

What year did I say that to you?

[Interviewer (Lulu Garcia Navarro)]

Now, I think it was in 2018.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, I did not say that in 2018.

[Interviewer (Lulu Garcia Navarro)]

Oh, no, 2008. I'm so sorry. Yeah, 2008. So 2008. Yeah.

[Will Saletan]

See, again, he's kind of blocked out of his head, this disgusting thing. He said she has to remind him when it was. Again, he has deep, deep principles. Except for the part about Iraqis being primitive monkeys. Okay, let's take another example where he sounds like he's being reflective and thoughtful. He's talking here about the Iran War. And why Trump got into it when he shouldn't have.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, first of all, it's a display of male power. Send the bombs in, kill the bad people.

[Will Saletan]

Oh, that, that sounds really, really insightful. But then, but then, if you keep watching. Later, Carlson talks about young men and their anger at CEOs and a rigged

[Tucker Carlson]

economy that reflects this revolutionary frustration. And I do think it's revolutionary. I think one of the reasons that Trump is apparently going to make weed legal is just so we can lower testosterone levels even more. Just make people more passive, have some more benzos. Like, it's fine. It's totally fine.

[Will Saletan]

Oh, oh. So, so all that stuff about male power and how it led us into a war and that's bad. That was just, that was just a fleeting moment of reflection. And now we're back. Now we're back to what Carlson really believes, which is that the President wants to drug us to take down our precious, precious testosterone.

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[Will Saletan]

Okay, how about a bigger topic? Killing civilians? Carlson says when Israel does it, it's really bad.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

I think what we're seeing is evil. Like are you allowed to kill people

[Tucker Carlson]

who've committed no crime? No. Super simple. You're not allowed to do that under no moral standard. Is that allowable all of a sudden it's allowable. It's allowable in Gaza. And our leaders are like, yeah, no, it's just totally fine. It's not fine.

[Will Saletan]

And then later he condemns American officials for, for waving away these civilian killings.

[Tucker Carlson]

And that's why when you have a US Senator, a member of Congress, a US Ambassador waving away civilian deaths as if they don't matter, that's the language of genocide, which results, and this is the lesson of the Holocaust in genocide itself.

[Will Saletan]

Okay, but then, then when the killer is Russia instead of Israel, suddenly, suddenly killing civilians is totally fine. Here's what Carlson said in 2019 when Russia was waging a proxy war in Ukraine.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

I don't think that we should be at war with Russia and I think we should probably take the side of Russia if we have to choose between Russia and Ukraine.

[Tucker Carlson]

That is my view.

[Will Saletan]

And then here's what he said three years later in 2022, after Russia had launched an, an all out invasion and had slaughtered, slaughtered Ukrainian civilians.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

I'm sorry, you know, like, you don't have to be. I'm not a Putin defender, despite what you may have heard. I don't really care one way or the other because he's not my president. He doesn't preside over my country. And what he does in Ukraine, while I think historically significant, certainly significant to Ukrainians, is not more significant to me than what gas costs. In fact, it's not even in the same universe.

[Will Saletan]

See, when Putin, when Putin is the killer, it's okay to wave away the civilian deaths and not just Putin. Here's Carlson just a year and a half ago talking about another butcher. This time it is the former dictator of Syria, Bashar Al Assad.

[Tucker Carlson]

What I didn't understand and still don't understand is why we're all required to hate Assad. I'm not speaking for myself. I don't have strong feelings about Assad one way or the other. Apparently he's protected the Christians, so I'm grateful for that as a Christian, but I, I don't. Why am I required to hate Assad? Some ophthalmologist from London, as in, is a bloodthirsty dictator. I never, I didn't really see when

[Will Saletan]

Assad does the killing, when Assad does it, instead of, say, I don't know, Benjamin Netanyahu. Carlson doesn't have those, those strong feelings. In fact, Assad, he says, is a good guy because, because he protected the Christians. Speaking of which, Carlson says he now has deep reverence for Islam and in The Times interview, he denounces Trump for insulting Muslims.

[Tucker Carlson]

To brag about that and then to mock Islam.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

I don't think you should mock people's faith.

[Tucker Carlson]

I don't care if it's Judaism or Christianity or Islam.

[Will Saletan]

Oh, yeah. Carlson has profound, profound moral convictions about respecting Islam. He, he loves Muslims. I mean, you can see it right here in this, this video from 2017.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

If you really cared about America, you wouldn't want it to become Europe. Dangerous, divided, unstable. You wouldn't import a massive Muslim minority into your country simply because it made you feel open minded and virtuous and then hope for the best.

[Will Saletan]

Okay, I think, I think we're getting the picture. The thoughtful guy you think you're seeing at moments in this interview is, it's just a blip. It's not really who this guy is. And I want to show you one more thing. Every so often, every so often, Carlson says something that shows you he's, I don't know, a little bit off. Right here he is talking about the assassination of Charlie Kirk.

[Tucker Carlson]

And then in on September 10, Charlie was murdered by a lone gunman.

[Will Saletan]

You heard the sarcasm there, right? Lone gunman. Carlson thinks it's a conspiracy and then he goes on to talk about a cover up.

[Tucker Carlson]

But my concern more broadly is about the investigation into Charlie's murder, which was short circuited by the FBI, and I'd like to know why.

[Will Saletan]

And he doesn't just believe in conspiracies. He also thinks there are supernatural forces that are acting on us politically and especially through Donald Trump.

[Tucker Carlson]

I've experienced this myself. You spend a day with Trump and sort of like you're in this kind of dreamland. It's like smoking hash or something. It's interesting, very interesting. And there may be a supernatural component to it. I'm not a theologian, but it's real. And anyone who's been around him can tell you it's real.

[Will Saletan]

See that that's real. Trump's supernatural power, that, that's real. But you know what's not real? Vaccines.

[Tucker Carlson]

If you think the vax is safe and effective. You know, I don't know what to tell you. Like, have you not been paying attention? Apparently not.

[Will Saletan]

Oh, we're paying attention. We're paying attention to what this guy says. Not just in the moments when he, he sounds like he's got his head together or when he sounds like he has moral convictions. And hey, maybe he does. Maybe in those moments he really believes that killing civilians is wrong or hate is wrong or discrimination is wrong. Maybe, maybe in that moment, he thinks it's not just all a big joke. But if you keep watching and you pay attention, you start to realize it's not the vaccines that are phony. It's him. See you next time.

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