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- [00:00]
A
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B
Hey, everybody, it's Tim O From the Bulwark here with our publisher, Sarah Longwell. Lots of news happening this week, but we couldn't let this one get by. All right, I don't know if you're on social media. You probably saw it. The homophobes are back out the closet. Okay? They closeted us for a while. We've closeted them for a few years, and now they've decided that they want to come back out into the open. They have a new campaign called the Greater Than Campaign, which says that we need to care about all kids. You know, mother and father and redefining marriage ruined this. Then we got to ban gay marriage and get rid of the Obergefell decision. So I want to play some of the video, but Sarah, do you have. Do you have a top line thoughts about your formal. Your former foils reemerging as a former Log Cabin chairman?
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C
Our government is being run by pedophiles.
- [01:53]
B
Just so if you're concerned about the children, that might be somewhere to start.
- [01:59]
C
I just have. I, like, can't believe that in the. On the. On the week where millions and millions of emails have shown that everyone from Howard Ludnick to the new Kevin running the Fed to Elon Musk and everybody was super down to go party with America's most notorious pedophile, that they've all been lying to us about their relationship with him. The Extent of it. And that extends to our President of the United States, the man in the White House. The calls coming from within the White House. They're giving sweetheart deals to Ghislaine Maxwell. But no, guys, we cannot focus on this because somewhere some gays might be raising some perfectly well adjusted children. Anyway, those are my top line thoughts.
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B
That's a great top. I'm happy I asked. That's a wonderful top line thought. Let's. Well, the video is about three minutes. I've selected a few choice cuts for us to watch together. So let's start.
- [02:57]
D
Marriage is actually the most basic institution of human civilization.
- [03:01]
A
When Obergefell redefined marriage to include same sex couples, it was billed as a win for adult equality. In reality, it created inequality for children. It made our children less than.
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C
When you redefine marriage, you redefine parenthood. When you make mothers tense eyebrows in.
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A
Parenthood law, children are harmed.
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C
We now have these trite phrases like love makes a family or.
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A
Or all you need is just love.
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C
As long as your physical needs are met and someone is cheering you on, then apparently you'll grow up fine.
- [03:35]
D
But the kids aren't fine. The kids haven't been fine for quite some time. You redefine marriage. You have just destroyed this guy's gay. You can put together a new house and claim it's the same. Children will know the difference. It harms children in virtually every way imaginable. We are prioritizing the fantasies of adults, no matter how earnestly those fantasies are felt over the real needs and the.
- [04:00]
C
Real good of children.
- [04:01]
D
The data that we have says two things. Number one, children do best when they are raised in a home with married biological mom and dad. The other thing we know from research is that moms don't dad and dads don't mom.
- [04:16]
B
The guy before that, Michael Knowles, it's important to say he's at the Daily Wire and he was in a gay porn one time. Sarah, where do you want to start Here? We're focusing on the children. They need a mom and a dad. Moms don't dad. Dads don't mom. So we have to get rid of gay marriage. What do you think?
- [04:36]
C
I think it's interesting they want to pick this fight right now. First of all, I mean, the research actually shows that kids who are raised in a loving family with two parents do great. And in fact, actually. Sorry Tim, but if you really go want to go deep on the science, you know who kids do best in overall with everybody. With lesbians with their two Moms, Damn it, we it you crush when you have two moms. Double the moms. Is double just all the great things that moms do.
- [05:11]
B
Guilt trips.
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C
Double the nagging, double the nagging, double the guilt trips. And you get all the sports still. You still going to teach you to throw that baseball correctly.
- [05:22]
B
That's true.
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C
We'll teach you how to wear your stocking cap.
- [05:25]
B
Yeah. And you're probably doing better on like the shop, you know, could you change a tire? That sort of stuff.
- [05:31]
C
That's right.
- [05:31]
B
You know, yeah. Look, the whole thing, it's just important just to say the whole premise is moronic. All right? Like even if you were against gay marriage, I wanted to make a case against it. This is a really stupid one. It probably polls well, which is why they're going into this. But you know, obviously these people don't genuinely care about this. But just like taking their argument at face value, like it sounds like me and you both agree that in an ideal world every kid would have two parents. It's better to have two parents. It's hard to be a single parent. It's fucking hard to be a single mom. You know, back when my husband was doing overseas travel and I had to be a single dad for like a week, I was like, I don't know how I would live. Like, yes. Like, I don't know how you survive. So shout out to all the single moms out there. Certainly, like, it's like, that is better, but like life isn't perfect. You know, people have problems out there in the world. Like some people aren't able to parent. Like it's, it's not like the choices between every kid, you know, growing up in Mayberry in the 1950s with a, with a stay at home mom and a dad and you know, maybe a lynching down the street. Like, it's not like that. It's not like how things go. Like, that's not an option for some kids.
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C
Right.
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B
And so like the argument doesn't. Isn't even sensible. Like even just taking it at face value. Right. Like you can't mandate that from a government lifestyle. And it is worth noting just as an example of this, like, if you did take that argument at face value and you're like, okay, what are the policy implications if we need to have, every kid needs to have a mom and a dad, what's the first policy thing that we should do? It probably wouldn't be banning gays from parenting. You know, who are two parent households.
- [07:05]
C
Demanding that dads stay with their Kids. And if they have a biological. And this is. This is.
- [07:12]
B
That would be the thing to do.
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C
It always gives up the game on this point, which is they're using this kids thing as a Trojan horse to demonize gay people. When. If you really took the welfare of children as seriously as they want to claim that they take the welfare of children, you would have policy proposals that are really focused on dads, that are really focused on men raising the biological children that they create that forces them to stay with. And now, you know, you'd get your. Your evangelicals, I'm sure what's her. Beth Stuckey and Ben Shapiro. And some of those guys would answer, yes, we would like policies that demand that dad said and say, okay, did you make that video?
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B
Where's that campaign?
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C
Where's that campaign? I would love to see it. Does that have millions of dollars behind it?
- [07:55]
B
Like, they're only just on math. Like, the transit. Like, they're only, like. I think there's fewer than a million married guys, so there's, like, much fewer than that. Gay parents in the country. There are way more than a million deadbeat dads in the country. So just like, as a math. From a math perspective, if you're, like, trying to focus on making sure. And by the way, just also as a fact, we probably don't want some of those deadbeat dads parenting because they're probably abusive or they may hang out with Jeffrey Epstein or they may, you know, beat out drunks, like, are unable to parent or incapable. You know, it's just like. It's a fantasy. It's a fairy tale thing they're doing.
- [08:33]
C
It is. And I gotta say, like, I wonder. I actually wonder what the breakdown is of lesbians to gay men who parent. Because the fact is, just as a practical matter, it's easier for us. I don't even know if I should. But, like, I remember going to the IVF clinic and the doctor being like, oh, we love lesbians because you just throw some sperm at them and they get pregnant. So used to dealing with, like, infertile, you know, straight couples anyway, it is fewer.
- [09:04]
B
I'm trying to get the facts here. We're doing. I'm doing some fact checking live, but there are more, more lesbians than gay men in the.
- [09:11]
C
I'm just saying, in the scope of the actual threat to kids, again, going back to this, like, the scourge of lesbian parenting, I think probably ranks really, really, really low in the harm category. Actually probably is, like, pretty good. But, like, the evangelical camps and the Number of priests that are molesting kids. Like, I just. It is. You cannot say that you care about all this stuff and then, like, focus on gay people. Like, it's a Trojan horse for your bigotry against gay people. We all know that. Also, you already lost. Like, go away.
- [09:48]
B
Yeah, yeah, it is. It's most important to focus on. And I think they're really thinking about gay men. You know, you are getting lumped in there. But, like, we're the real enemy here.
- [09:57]
C
Yeah.
- [09:58]
B
And, you know, somewhere, without getting too personal, she's like, for my kid, like, what they laid out in the video wasn't an option.
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C
Right.
- [10:06]
B
Like, that was never going to happen. Right. For. For her. And so, I don't know. I think things are pretty good for her, all things considered. With two loving parents that are in the home that are here all the time. Since I work from home, since she's sitting right there, nobody's getting parented more than her. Right. Fucking here all the time, 20 hours a day, right behind this door. And so, you know, apparently it's pretty good. But as we get to the next segment, I think the thing I want to think about is it is nice that they've been unmasked. And I want to watch this next part of the video because it's good, you know, if you're like us, you're in a situation like us, Sarah. And somebody wants to null. I don't know exactly what their policy proposal is for existing gay families. Do they want to nullify the family? They want to take our children from us and give them to Russian families with a mom and a dad? Maybe. I'm not exactly sure what their policy is, but if they want to nullify our families, it's good to know who they are. And so let's watch the second part of the clip.
- [11:00]
D
Marriage policy should be about the children. It's not about bestowing public policy legitimacy and conferring economic benefits when it comes to adults who have their own idiosyncratic romantic desires. That's not the purpose of marriage policy.
- [11:13]
A
Redefining marriage robs children of the natural right to their mother and father, and.
- [11:18]
D
It puts adult desires over children's needs. It has to stop. Children.
- [11:24]
A
Children are greater. Children are greater.
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C
Children are greater than equal.
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D
And it's time we fought for their rights.
- [11:33]
B
Oh, boy. I would like to know a little bit. I wouldn't, actually, but it might be interesting to hear about Josh Hammer's idiosyncratic sexual desires. Interesting way to phrase it, but who knows? We can Keep that in the privacy of his bedroom. Probably can.
- [11:47]
C
Actually, can we just on this point a little bit. This is something that's. It's been so long since I've argued about gay marri that I'm a little rusty. But just as a, as a, like what they want to make it about sort of like gay sex. Like they're like, this is about like desire, whatever. Do you know what, do you know what the desire is in the context of marriage is like to have a family and to create a stable home life and like to make a lifelong commitment. Like this is. It's weird. It's like no one's asking for the right to do anything weird Western. And it's like, it's like when they're like, marriage has lasted as long as human history, you know that it's the first institution. We're like, right. And we would like to take on the responsibilities of that institution. It also comes with some rights, but it comes with a lot more responsibilities. So that's why it won. Because people.
- [12:39]
B
We could do the idiosyncratic sex stuff actually without the marriage. That would still be possible. And maybe they want to ban that as well. That's not clear in the video. But you know, if you're, if your desire was to be a hedonistic gay who was, you know, just living the orgy lifestyle constantly and not parenting and not getting the whatever tax benefits you get from being in a marriage, like that's still like, that's fine. You could still do that. Like that. Like they feel like that is the way to win the argument, which is like we care about kids, they care about ball gags or whatever.
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C
Yeah.
- [13:14]
B
And it's kind of like, okay, like that's not an apt argument for what the gays are asking for. And when you think about things in reality, there's a lot of idiot syncretic. Circling back to your topic. There's a lot of idiosyncratic sexual activity happening in the heterosexual space and it's happening at the top of our government and it's fucking gross and illegal in various ways.
- [13:40]
C
There's idiosyncratic with adults and then there's what has happened with Epstein. And you know, not to. Obviously there's. We're going to make lots of videos as that more as we sort of sort through these millions of files that are coming out. But just based on what you can find from the immediate stuff like Jeffrey Epstein was abusing children, 13 and 14 year old girls and he was taking them to his island. It was clearly well known among the community based on what we've seen from these like, like the winking and nodding. And so when you've got Elon Musk begging for invites to his island and you've got nut lick, sit on the.
- [14:20]
B
Elon Musk though first. Sam and I talked about this yesterday, but I just, it's worth really just putting a finer point on it because he's like asking Epstein in 22, I don't have in front of you, that's 2012 or 2013. So after we know about Epstein's behavior, he's asking him, what, when is the craziest party going to be on the island? So like Elon is emailing the pedo not to be like, let's go to lunch or whatever, or not like maybe, oh, we're going to go to a fundraiser and I want to take some of your dirty money and give it to give it to poor people or something like that. No, it's like he's emailing Epstein and all Epstein is known for is sex trafficking of girls and young women. And Elon's like, I want to go to the craziest party on your island. What do you think that he thinks he's signing up for? I mean, I don't think, you know, I don't think it's a symposium. Epstein goes, how many people will you be for the heli to the island, Elon? Probably just Tallulah and me. What day, night will be the wildest party on your island? November 2012.
- [15:17]
C
There you go. So if you've got resources and you are focused on the welfare of children, there are a lot of children that need help. There are a lot of now grown adults who were children who were abused who need justice and accountability. And the way to get that is to look at the President of the United States who was all over these files. Some of it we don't know if it's true. But like, what we do know is Trump, long after he claims to have no longer been in Jeffrey Epstein's orbit, and Lutnick, who claims he was not in Jeffrey Epstein, they were all lying about it, Elon. And so they're all over the files. And maybe we should start asking those questions. And if you wanna wage a war for children by saying that, that loving families who have been. I. It's so funny, since gay marriage, like, what, what, what were the big negative outcomes of gay marriage? Like, we've had it now for a very long, for a long time.
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B
Kids have to read the Gay Penguin book in school, I think is the big negative outcome for.
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C
Do they have to. Are you sure? Are you sure? This.
- [16:20]
B
I just want to say I want to do one earnest thing and then the politics. Just because you said there are a lot of kids out there that need help. Just another blunt thing that's worth saying is that there are a lot of kids out there that need help, and there are a lot of gay parents that provided that help for those kids, and those kids had been abandoned by their straight parents. So, like, if you're focused just on kids needs, there are a lot of policies we could put in place to help kids that, you know, are even across the board, you know, trying to ensure that people that are abandoning them or not parenting them or not doing a good job are accountable for that and that the kids have the support and the safety net that they need. That doesn't seem to be what these guys are up to. Just on the politics, this is kind of good, right? We want them to do this, I think. I mean, it scares people. And so I don't want anybody to be scared. And maybe it makes people feel bad. I don't want people to feel bad. But, like, fundamentally, their position has been widely rebuked throughout the country. And if they want to carry this fucking baggage for the stupid proposal, that's probably good.
- [17:21]
C
I'm not sure there is a modern public opinion shift success greater than the one around gay marriage. And I do think that part of what's happening right now is that it has become popular and mainstream to attack trans people. And that is separate from whether you have feelings on the policies of, like, sports and like, some of the very specific things, but like, the. The new level of sort of animosity towards trans people, kicking them out of the military and sort of just demonizing them at every turn, of course, has also then created, I think, for these groups a sense of like, ooh, we could go back on offense on gay people. Like, let's take, you know, let's, let's, let's like, keep this. Let's keep this ball rolling. I think that actually what happens in that scenario is that to your point earlier, the mask comes off. And for the people who are trying to argue that it's just about sports and the things that are kind of 80, 20 in public public opinion now, they're gonna circle back and be like, they're gonna do things that are 70, 30 opinion favorably, which is like, gay marriage is just. The majority of Americans support it. And so that allows, I think, us to be like, see, this is really all just code for trying to discriminate against this category of people that they don't like.
- [18:42]
B
And also, and just to be cynical for a second, because I love our trans brothers and sisters, but, like, for just cynical political purposes, like, these people seem weird, the ones going after the gay marriage. And I think that a lot of the folks that have come on board to the Trump train in the comedian set that like to say nasty things about trans people and make jokes about trans people, which I don't endorse, they look at this and are like, yeah, this is good. I don't want to be part of this group. Right. And that was how I was part of the reason why a lot of those people were Obama voters back when this was a salient issue. It wasn't just about gay stuff, but, like, there was a basket of issues where they looked at the Republicans and the Republicans were branded these weird Christians that were going to make them do shit they didn't want to do. And the basket of issues change. So if the basket of issues goes back to weird shit like this, I do think that's probably a political winner on the margins.
- [19:34]
C
Yeah. Good reminder that a bunch of the people who claim to be Christians and who are very worried about the welfare of children are part. Like, it's a good reminder that they are part of the coalition with all the rest of you who, like, the thrice married slept with the porn star, paid her off for her silence guy. And so you will forgive us, friends, if we don't take you too seriously or at your word on any of this.
- [20:08]
B
It's a great place to leave it. Thank you, Sarah. Go back to your children that you're parenting this weekend with your lesbian outfit.
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C
I wore my lesbian. My most lesbian outfit for this particular.
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B
Who knows what you guys are going to be doing today. It's going to be, I don't know, shop.
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C
I mean, I was just reading them Harry Potter. We're slogging through the fifth book right now because that's not just one of them.
- [20:29]
B
Typical cringe millennial parents. All right, we'll see you, Sarah.