Bulwark Takes – "We’re in a Very Dangerous Place"

Date: September 10, 2025
Hosts: Tim O (Tim Miller) & Sarah Longwell

Episode Overview

In this urgently somber installment, The Bulwark's Tim O and publisher Sarah Longwell respond in real time to the shocking assassination of conservative activist and Turning Point USA founder Charlie Kirk, who was killed while appearing at Utah Valley University. Grappling with the event’s emotional and political ramifications, the hosts explore the impact of political violence on American discourse, the chilling effect on free speech, and the broader context of rising threats and violence in public life. With a tone that is at once raw and reflective, they call for empathy, a recommitment to non-violence, and serious consideration of America’s gun laws and political rhetoric.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Assassination of Charlie Kirk

• [00:00-00:25] Tim O delivers breaking news of Charlie Kirk's death, gunned down at a Utah Valley University event.
• Sarah expresses a deep sense of sadness and fear:

  "…Rather than being people who can talk and fight and, you know, are all kind of part of the same country, trying to figure out…which is through, like, debate and argument and, and, you know, and tough politics. But whenever people are being killed over these things… it creates a devastating impact on our discourse." (Sarah Longwell, 00:25)

2. The Human Cost & Chilling of Political Speech

• [02:55-06:56] Both Tim and Sarah stress the human aspect—Kirk was young, a father of two, and the tragedy extends to his family:

  "He was just…out talking to people…taking all comers…somebody would shoot him. I don't know. It's awful. And it makes you really just scared about the moment that we're living in." (Sarah Longwell, 02:14) "Those kids deserve to have their dad. And he should not be taken from them…for political reasons." (Tim O, 03:13)

• The hosts emphasize that even deep disagreement with someone’s politics is no justification for violence, recalling their own debates with Kirk and his openness to engagement.

3. Political Violence as a Threat to Free Society

• Tim warns that fear of speaking one's mind—on any side—undermines basic freedoms:

  "You aren't in a free country if you can't feel safe to express your views, whether they be far right or far left or in the middle or pro Trump or anti Trump." (Tim O, 04:00)

• Both hosts reference not just Kirk, but historical and recent political attacks (Gabby Giffords, attempts on Trump, attacks against Democrats and Republicans), underlining that violence is not partisan.

4. Escalation and Spiraling Danger

• Tim and Sarah discuss the risk of violence escalating, and the dangers of normalization:

  "We're in a very dangerous place, and it's spiraling…It feels like this is an escalating thing, right?" (Tim O, 05:31)

• Both express concern over a potential cycle of violence and retribution.

5. The Role of Guns and Access to Weapons

• Tim pivots to the enabling environment of easy gun access:

  "That kid that tried to murder [Trump], had an easy access to weapons…he was able to get up on that roof and try to shoot him. That's what's not about. Everything that we've learned since about that young man was…that attempt wasn't even really about politics…what it was about was his easy access to munitions." (Tim O, 10:16)

• Frustration over America's inability to enact change in gun laws is palpable.

6. Preserving Debate, Rejecting Violence

• Sarah:

  "You should feel passionately and you should fight hard for what you believe in, and you should try to persuade people. But we can't have these debates effectively…if people just feel like there's vigilantes out there assassinating pundits and politicians." (Sarah Longwell, 07:22)

• Both remind listeners of the importance of empathy, even for ideological opponents, rejecting dehumanization and calling on Americans to be "their best selves."

  "Just remember he was a person…these are the moments where we should make sure that…people are just their best selves." (Sarah Longwell, 08:44)

7. The Personal Toll and Community Reflections

• Tim recounts his interactions with Kirk and his staff, pointing out their shared humanity despite ideological divides:

  "To him and the people around him, at least some of them, like, cared about that, and they had a community…And they allowed me to come in there and spar with them verbally, and…they did so in good spirits." (Tim O, 12:54)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the danger to democracy:

  "You aren't in a free country if you can't feel safe to express your views…if you have to feel fear to go out and have an exchange of views with people that disagree with you." (Tim O, 04:07)

• A call to avoid violence:

  "It is not hard to have a single North Star. Just don't do violence. Don't do violence. That's why we have free speech." (Sarah Longwell, 08:29)

• On the risk of escalation:

  "It gives authoritarians, people that want to take rights away from people, more power…removes even more people from the public space." (Tim O, 08:06)

• Empathy as a guiding principle:

  "Just remember he was a person. And these are the moments where we should make sure that we are…people are just their best selves." (Sarah Longwell, 08:44)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00-00:25 – Breaking news of Charlie Kirk’s assassination
• 00:26-03:02 – Initial emotional reflections, Kirk’s openness, the consequences for his family and colleagues
• 03:03-06:56 – The threat to free speech, cycle of political violence, historical context
• 06:57-09:31 – Escalation, bipartisan nature of violence, fear and withdrawal from public discourse
• 09:32-12:30 – Guns, rhetoric vs. access to weapons, frustration with America’s failure to act
• 12:31-13:32 – Final personal reflections, remembering humanity, a plea for kindness

Episode Tone and Closing Thoughts

The tone throughout is urgent, somber, deeply personal, and reflective. The hosts’ language is candid and emotionally raw, marked by both fear for the future of American democracy and a call for empathy in the face of tragedy. Both Tim and Sarah urge listeners to honor debate over violence, call for reforms that address the root causes of political violence, and plead for everyone—not just political allies—to be regarded, in times of heated division, as human beings first.