Bill Kristol (3:41)

That's what I was going to ask. So this is. What you're describing is kind of universal. If you're on a base here in the US if you're at a base in Germany, if you're not combat. But I mean, but no but, but.

Mark Hertling (3:51)

In combat it's completely different. It turns into a special event then too. And there's historical references and in fact I put an article together for the Bulwark to explain this in detail. Through all the wars of the United States, Even World War II, there was a troop ship that I can't remember the number. I've got it in the article. I think it was like 1600 tons of, of Turkey that General Marshall during World War II said make sure these meals get to the troops on the front line. So the amount of supply chain requirements to do that is just phenomenal. It is a monumental effort and it's just give the indication and show the soldiers who are fighting that people care about them. That even though they're away from their families, it is still a feast. It is a day to give thanks. It is. The history of Thanksgiving in the United States is a unique one and we, the military doesn't want to leave anyone out whether it be family in a garrison environment, or soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, coast guardsmen, and guardians of the space force. And each one of the services have their unique and different traditions on this. You know, I was talking to a guy in. In the Air Force who. Who had missile. Missilemen out in the middle of the Dakotas wilderness with the missile sites. And they would literally deliver the meals from the commanders to the missile sites to all those that were out there. The ships at sea, you know, they load up months ahead of time when you have a long deployment. Like, you know, we've been talking about the USS Ford strike group. I'm sure before they even deployed to the Mediterranean, their cooks on board were thinking about not only Thanksgiving dinner, but Christmas dinner, New Year's and all that. And the storage of food on a ship like that when it's at sea is pretty intense. So it's a real logistics challenge as well. Yeah.

Bill Kristol (5:44)

I remember our son telling us when he got back from. He was a Marine infantry officer in Afghanistan in 2010 in Sangin in Helmand Province, which was the middle of nowhere and eating seven months, basically eating MREs or something, a little one cut above, but not nothing much, you know, And Marine Corps and the rest of the military correctly prioritized other things and, you know, giving them wonderful meals. You spending a lot of money and time and logistics getting the wonderful meals every night or anything like that. But Thanksgiving was special. And they. I mean, this is really the middle of nowhere, and they were in intense combat and they got full turkey dinner. And it really was. I think it meant a lot to the. And these guys were kind of out there, as I say, on the frontier and feeling they weren't feeling neglected, but were, you know, they were at risk and so forth. And I think it. I think it means a lot in those circumstances. It's a wonderful tradition that they keep that up. And I know they go to a lot of trouble to do it.

Mark Hertling (6:32)

Yeah. One of my favorite memories from my last combat deployment, I was Commander of the 1st Armored Division, task Force Iron in Northern Iraq. And we had an area of operations that was about the size of the state of Pennsylvania in that area that bordered the Turkish and Syrian border to the north, the Iranian border to the to the east, and Baghdad and Anbar province to the west. We had about 29 different combat outposts, forward operating bases, patrol bases, and the Sergeant Major and I, and my battle buddy, Command Sergeant Major Roger Blackwood, we had a meeting about a week before Thanksgiving, and we pledged to ourselves that we would hit Every single one of our bases on Thanksgiving Day. So we took off in the morning, about five o' clock in the morning and literally flew to each one of our bases. And of course, as you go in, the cooks want to feed you at each base. So we probably gained 20 pounds that day. But, but it was fascinating going to the more secure bases in places like Diala province where they had a bigger base versus the smaller patrol bases where there was maybe a platoon or a company lot size element where we would touch down and literally get off, go to their chow hall, go around, shake hands with the soldiers that weren't conducting patrols or doing operations. And that was a high intensity environment too. What was interesting about that is the division Sergeant Major, my good friend Roger Blackwood, he had an experience during Desert Storm where his mother sent he and his cavalry platoon a box of Twinkies on Thanksgiving. So, you know, he's saying, hey, that's the one thing we can't get in the middle of the Iraqi desert. So ever since then he's made it his mission to deliver Twinkies to soldiers. So we had about 12 cases of Twinkies in the back of the Blackhawk helicopter. My personal Thanksgiving experience from Desert Storm was when a guy came along with a case of near beer, you know, non alcoholic beer. So we had another X number of cases of near beer. So Sergeant Major and I would get out at each one of the locations and personally hand deliver the near beer and the Twinkies to the soldiers at different places. We had one outpost on the top of Mount Sinjar, which is in northern Iraq. And it became famous during the ISIS attack where we had a six person Marine detachment that was running communications for us. So it was the highest spot in all of northern Iraq. They put up a huge set of antennas and we were allowed to communicate because of these six Marines which were for a year up on the top of this desolate base. And we flew into there and got great pictures of us delivering near beer and Twinkies to these marines. And they thought we were crazy army guys, but they sure did eat it and drink it.

Bill Kristol (9:25)

That's fantastic. Really. I mean, you went into the military, what, you graduated from West Point in 75.

Mark Hertling (9:31)

No, I mean 75. Yeah.

Bill Kristol (9:34)

Has it changed much or has it been pretty, pretty constant for all the changes in our society and everything?

Mark Hertling (9:40)

During my time as a senior commander, what I saw was an increasing amount of competition on garrison basis between different dining facilities. And you know, you always give the award for the best dining facility on Thanksgiving. So you know, the commanding general would usually be the judge and go around and say which one had the best displays and the best pies and cakes and all that other stuff. And it was intense. And I remember my wife and I, when I was a one star general at a place called Grafenwehr, which is the training center in Germany, we had one mess hall, one dining facility we went to. At about six o' clock in the morning every, all the cooks were there, they were getting ready. And I have never seen as many turkeys being cooked in my life as I saw in that. There were probably 100 turkeys being baked in that one dining facility along with all the other stuff that went with it. It's mind boggling for someone who's not a cook to watch these young men and women who all go through, you know, the chef school at Fort Lee, Virginia and they do a great job and they are world class chefs. The biggest thing is they train them how to do this at the cook school in Virginia, but they, they actually have a course on ice carving. And the only time that these cooks do ice carving is either Thanksgiving or Christmas. And you walk in and you see these beautiful ice carvings in the middle of the, what is normally a mess hall and it just blows you away. It's really kind of cool to the.

Bill Kristol (11:09)

Locals like in Germany, where they're, you know, court revelations and it's not, it's a garrison, as you say, it's not in combat or not. It's not a tiny little combat outpost. Do they participate?

Mark Hertling (11:17)

A little.

Bill Kristol (11:18)

Do they understand this? Do they think we're just, do they think we're just crazy? What do they think?

Mark Hertling (11:21)

Well, no, because they understand what we're eating. And as a commander of a couple of bases in Germany, we would always invite the local Germans to come and have Thanksgiving and, and they became, if they're a base like a Grafenbur, where there's always the same Germans around, they're invited every year and they know what, what a special occasion it is, first of all. But they get into it as well. We've, we've taught them about Thanksgiving and Halloween and, and they've taught us some of their local fest. But it's, but it's always fun. I'll give you one more memory, Bill, that, that was special to me. When I was a brigade Commander out in Fort Lewis, Washington State, my dad came out, he was 84 years old when he came out to have Thanksgiving with us. And he was expecting, of course, to come to our house and have My wife cook a great Thanksgiving meal. And I said, no, no, no. We're going to the mess hall. And of course, he served in the army during World War II in Japan, and he was thinking we were giving him the shaft by taking the mess hall. He went in this place. He didn't want to leave. He just kept piling up the food and thought it was the best Thanksgiving he ever had. So it was a lot of fun. And having him meet my soldiers, too, was kind of a unique event, too. It was just a really unforgettable experience.

Bill Kristol (12:34)

That's a wonderful memory. And any advice for civilians about, is there some way they can help in this? Or people, I guess, send Twinkies. Right. Or send things the kids don't have. Otherwise. We did a lot of that in Afghanistan.

Mark Hertling (12:47)

Yeah. There was actually a group, a young woman by the name of Carolyn Blacechek in California. I'll give her some.

Bill Kristol (12:53)

I know who we worked with.

Mark Hertling (12:55)

Yeah, my wife, Operation Gratitude.

Bill Kristol (12:57)

Yeah, she.

Mark Hertling (12:58)

Back in 2003, when I was in Baghdad, I was an assistant division commander for General Marty Dempsey. And I get this email from Carolyn Blek. Didn't know who the hell she was. And she said, general, I understand you're with a unit over in Baghdad, and if you need anything, we've got this organization. We'll send you care packages if you just give us a list of names. So I. There's a story. And I. I wrote her back, and I said, carolyn, I said, I don't think you understand who I am. I'm assistant division commander of a 30,000 soldier division. And I said, I don't think I can give you names of 30,000 people and you can get the packages here. She immediately wrote back, and this is the legend of Carolyn Blacek. She immediately wrote back in 2003 and said, General, if you give me 30,000 names, I'll get you 30,000 packages. And she did. And that organization, Operation Gratitude, is still going right now. Originally established in her living room, now it's in a big auditorium where they pack boxes for soldiers and sailors and airmen and Marines, certainly. And the Marines are a big contingent of Operation Gratitude, so I'm sure you know them well.

Bill Kristol (14:02)

Yeah, our son knows. Knew her son, actually, when he was in. And I think he's on the board, or was on the board of Operation Gratitude. Was. He got to know the family and so forth. And he's in New York, and he helped raise some money and so forth. No, it's a wonderful thing, and it really is a Case study of, you know, what Tocqueville said about America. These people form associations. She didn't get, you know, no one told her to do this. I mean, she really was her idea. And it's fantastic. It's great that you wrote back though, and that it didn't get lost in the, in the bureaucracy and all that. That's.

Mark Hertling (14:29)

I'll tell you one more secret about Carolyn. So the first time I contacted her was in 2003 when I was in 1st Armored Division in Baghdad. Fast forward to 2007. I'm now the division commander. She writes me and she says, hey, I know, you know, we've been sending your soldiers packages, but I've got the 2 millionth package coming up and we'd like to do something special. She said, jeep. The Jeep Corporation has donated a set of car keys for a new jeep in one of the packages. That's going to be the 2 millionth. She says, I don't just want to send it out. I want to send it out to someone special. So could you pick someone in first Armored Division that would get this? You know, we do this on the sly and not tell anybody. And now I'm telling the world. But she, I said, sure, Caroline, that'd be great. I'll find a young soldier that's got a big family and doesn't have a whole lot of money. She said, well, the only caveat I put on this is, can I deliver it in person? And I went to the middle of Iraq. We were up in Tikrit at the time, and I said, well, let me talk to my boss about that. So I called General Petraeus and told him the story and he said, sure, have her come over. So Carolyn came to Iraq with a couple of other people, hand delivered the package with the car keys in it to a young specialist, and it was her 2 millionth package that she had delivered to soldiers over a 10 year period of time. Wonderful story.

Bill Kristol (15:49)

It is a wonderful story and a good one to. To end on. So we should wish happy Thanksgiving to all the young men and women serving us all around the world.

Mark Hertling (15:57)

Thanks for doing this story. It's the better side of the military right now.

Bill Kristol (16:01)

Yeah, thank you, Mark, and thanks for sharing it with us.

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