Bulwark Takes — "What the Hell Is Going On With Melania?"

Host: Bill Kristol
Guest: Sarah Matthews (Former White House Deputy Press Secretary)
Date: April 12, 2026

Overview

This episode of Bulwark Takes features Bill Kristol in conversation with Sarah Matthews, formerly a Deputy Press Secretary in the Trump White House, now part of the Bulwark team. Their discussion zeroes in on Melania Trump's unprecedented press conference regarding the Epstein files, and broadens to a deep dive into the dynamics, functionality, and power structures of Trump's second-term White House. Matthews provides rare insider perspective on the environment, characters, alliances, and rivalries shaping the administration, making this episode essential listening for anyone tracking American politics in 2026.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Melania Trump's Surprising Press Conference

Timestamp: 04:16 – 10:03

• Melania's Unorthodox Move:

  • Melania Trump held a press conference from the highly formal Cross Hall, a place "usually reserved for the President," to address rumors about her links to Jeffrey Epstein.
  • This approach broke tradition—"I've never seen anyone make a statement from the Cross Hall who wasn't the President speaking about serious things." (Kristol, 06:38)
  • Her comments focused solely on clearing her own name, with minimal defense of Donald Trump:
    • "It really kind of just felt largely like Melania trying to clear her own name...it wasn't like she was really coming out there and defending...her husband as well." (Matthews, 06:55)

• Impact & Intentions:

  • Matthews suggests Melania likely acted independently, with limited sign-off from the President or the West Wing:
    • "That's just my two cents because that's how she always operated. Her team...just kind of did their own thing." (Matthews, 04:27)
  • Kristol remarks on the unusual setting:
    • "She reads this almost six-minute statement that's not about matters of state, but about her own unhappiness at what she claims to be bad reporting..." (Kristol, 05:39)
  • Both agree the press conference may have been a strategic preemptive move amid swirling rumors:
    • "I think that was a strategic choice, not go out there and forcefully defend her husband. She was focused solely on trying to clear her own name." (Matthews, 09:11)

2. Functioning of the Trump White House—Then & Now

Timestamp: 10:06 – 22:33

• Comparing Trump White House Versions:

  • "Working for any White House is crazy. Working for that specific president was crazier." (Matthews, 10:52)
  • Trump 1.0 (first term): Staff included people motivated by public service, a greater degree of infighting and leaking, but also functioning as "guardrails."
  • Trump 2.0 (second term): "You have sycophants and loyalists who are willing to say and do whatever he wants... that's how he operates." (Matthews, 11:18)

• Leaks as Guardrails:

  • While destructive at times, leaks sometimes helped prevent bad policy:
    • "That is one way in which it is kind of a guardrail, honestly...getting something out there...isn't necessarily a bad thing for the country." (Kristol, 14:04)
  • 2.0 is a tighter, more disciplined ship with little leaking—surrounding Trump with absolute loyalty, insulating him, and enabling surprise decisions.

3. Power Players & Influence Dynamics

Timestamp: 15:50 – 19:38

• Key Figures:

  • Susie Wiles: Seen as running a "well-oiled machine," enjoys Trump's trust and significant sway.
  • Stephen Miller: His influence has grown; “touching policy across the administration,” not just immigration.
  • Marco Rubio: "Enormous influence" with multiple titles, serves as a proximate advisor—was at Trump's side at a recent public event instead of the Vice President.

• Cabinet & Loyalty:

  • Trump chooses who’s in the room; presence at big events (like UFC) is a mark of favor and influence.
  • "Trump is the one picking the people that he's inviting. And...he wants you to be there, so you have to be there and make it work." (Matthews, 19:16)

4. The Trump Information Bubble

Timestamp: 19:38 – 24:55

• Narrative Control:

  • Trump disregards inconvenient facts, preferring narratives that suit him:
    • "He has a way of bending reality to what he wants...If there's a narrative that he wants to push, he's going to find a way to push that and...spin it." (Matthews, 20:22)
  • His team buffers him from negative news—"they brief him with these little video montages of things blowing up...they don't want to tell him about the negative things." (Matthews, 21:25)

• Media Consumption:

  • Trump’s worldview is shaped heavily by TV, especially Fox News:
    • "That was 1,000% my experience. I think he sat in the Oval Office dining room and would watch TV and consume it." (Matthews, 22:50)
  • Staffers filter what is shown to him to manage his reactions.

5. Staff Dynamics, Fear, and Self-Preservation

Timestamp: 24:55 – 27:26

• Staff Avoid Negative Feedback:
  • "People...don't want to get the backlash from him and like the anger." (Matthews, 24:55)
  • Self-preservation trumps candor; staffers sugarcoat news to protect their positions rather than prioritize the country or the President’s sound decision-making.

6. Notable Firings: Kristi Noem & Pam Bondi

Timestamp: 27:26 – 31:05

• Pattern of Firings:
  • Despite extensive scandals, Trump only fired these women when they crossed him personally or failed to serve his political interests.
    • "What ultimately made him fire her was something that made him look bad." (Matthews, 27:38)
    • "He only fired [Bondi] because she wasn't prosecuting his enemies enough." (Matthews, 28:12)
  • Loyalty and shielding Trump from blame outweigh competence.

7. The Vance vs. Rubio "Heir" Dynamic

Timestamp: 31:18 – 34:24

• Competition for the MAGA Throne:
  • "I think there’s definitely a competition...I think he knows that those are kind of the top two contenders to be his heir to the MAGA throne." (Matthews, 31:22)
  • Media stories about Vance distancing himself from Trump’s unpopular Iran war appear planted to help his image.
  • Susie Wiles suspected to be subtly boosting Rubio behind the scenes.
  • Competition evident even in staged photos ("make me look better than Marco").

8. Will Trump Seek a Third Term?

Timestamp: 34:24 – 39:12

• Trump Floating a Third Term:
  • Speculation abounds as to whether Trump would try for a third term:
    • "We need to be taking seriously when Trump makes these comments about running for a third term. I mean, he's floated it out there so many times...he's trying to normalize it and I think if he could, he genuinely would." (Matthews, 35:22)
  • Age and constitutional limits may ultimately stop him, but lack of accountability after January 6th emboldens him.
    • "One lesson he learned is that he paid no price, really, for January 6, 2021. And if he paid no price for that, why wouldn't he try the equivalent this time?" (Kristol, 38:10)
  • The normalization and strategic groundwork for anti-democratic moves remain a present danger.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Kristol on Melania's address:

  • "Standing in the Cross hall...behind the lectern with the seal President of the United States...usually reserved for the President...she reads this almost six minute statement that’s not about matters of state..." (05:21)

• Matthews on Melania’s strategy:

  • “Melania is a lot smarter than people give her credit for. She is very strategic, and I think that was a strategic choice, not go out there and forcefully defend her husband.” (09:11)

• Matthews on Trump’s information diet:

  • “He sat in the Oval Office dining room and would watch TV and consume it. And you have to be really careful with what you present in front of him…” (22:50)

• Matthews on the firings of Noem and Bondi:

  • “He only chose to fire them...because [they made] him look bad...All he cared about...was how can we enact revenge?” (27:38, 28:12)

• On the legacy of January 6th:

  • “He's the first president to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power...If he learned anything from January 6th, I think he's learned a lot from that process. And so it does scare me at the thought of what could happen moving forward.” (37:09)

• Kristol on leaks as internal guardrails:

  • “…It is getting something out there that the President is planning to do, if you think it's pretty unwise…isn't necessarily a bad thing for the country…” (14:04)

Additional Highlights with Timestamps

• On West Wing vs. East Wing Coordination: 04:16–07:49
• Inside Press Team Mechanics (Kayleigh McEnany, Caroline Leavitt): 10:50–14:04
• Stephen Miller’s Role Expansion: 15:50–18:25
• How Rubio Rose to Power: 15:50–19:38
• Staffer Self-Interest vs. National Interest: 24:55–27:26
• Vance vs. Rubio — Media Gamesmanship: 31:18–34:24

Tone & Style

Bill Kristol maintains a mix of incredulity and analysis, often looking to Matthews for insider confirmation. Matthews’ tone is candid, measured, and focused on pragmatic observations from her tenure, with moments of dry humor and concern for democratic norms.

Conclusion

Sarah Matthews provides a rare and detailed look inside the Trump White House’s culture, motivation, and evolving power dynamics, while the Melania press conference emerges as a symbol of the administration’s focus on self-preservation over unified messaging or tradition. The conversation ultimately circles around the dangers of loyalty-over-truth, the machinery that enables Trump’s continued domination of the Republican Party, and the real risks posed to democratic norms if lessons from the past go unheeded.