Why Are CNN Hosts Defending Trump Like This?

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Bulwark Takes – "Why Are CNN Hosts Defending Trump Like This?"

Date: September 10, 2025
Hosts: JVL (Bulwark), Andrew Ager (Bulwark)
Theme: Examining why CNN anchors are repeatedly using similar language to distance Donald Trump from accusations of wrongdoing, specifically in the context of the Jeffrey Epstein investigation.

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Overview

In this episode, JVL and Andrew Ager explore a pattern emerging on CNN, where hosts go out of their way to clarify that Donald Trump "has not been accused of any wrongdoing" regarding the Jeffrey Epstein case, even when their guests make more pointed statements. The Bulwark hosts dissect whether media outlets are self-censoring due to fear of legal action from the Trump camp and how corporate interests shape news coverage. The conversation ranges from media ethics and legal pressures to Trump’s controversial history.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. CNN's On-Air Refrains and Legal Caution

• JVL introduces the topic by noting that multiple CNN anchors, including John Berman and Brianna Kyler, have made similar statements disassociating Trump from wrongdoing in the Epstein scandal, even as their guests connect Trump to suspicious behavior.
  • Quote:
    • "In the course of their conversation, Berman went out of his way to say that Donald Trump has not been accused of any wrongdoing." – JVL [00:58]
• JVL and Andrew discuss the legal and reputational pressures that likely drive these editorial decisions.
  • Quote:
    • "It sure sounds to me like somebody at CNN gave on-air personalities a talking to about making sure that they say... that Donald Trump has not been connected to any wrongdoing. That's the word that they're all supposed to use." – JVL [04:52]

2. What Does "Wrongdoing" Mean?

• JVL highlights that "wrongdoing" isn’t a legal term, differentiating it from terms like "treason" or "assault," which have precise definitions.
  • Quote:
    • "Wrongdoing is a very interesting word to use because it is not a legal term... There's no prosecutor who has come and said, we've indicted you on wrongdoing... It's just the network going and running cover for Trump." – JVL [06:58]
• The hosts point out that CNN's deliberate vagueness—interrupting guests instead of clarifying the legal facts—serves as a shield rather than an attempt at precise journalism.
  • Quote:
    • "The fact that they are imprecise and like interrupting other people to run cover and say this, that's just... they're trying to do the work, the vibes on this to make sure that the administration doesn't target them." – JVL [11:27]

3. The Impact of Litigation Threats and Corporate Ownership

• Andrew outlines how aggressive litigation by Trump and fear of lawsuits affect news coverage, noting prior and ongoing lawsuits against outlets like the Wall Street Journal.
  • Quote:
    • "It's plainly like the higher the temperature gets here, the more they're pressing down the pedal of litigation... obviously there's something like that going on underneath the surface here." – Andrew Ager [05:29]
• The discussion extends to how conglomerate ownership of news organizations fosters a risk-averse culture—CNN, owned by Warner Bros. Discovery, is just “a tiny little insignificant part of it,” so risk avoidance prevails.
  • Quote:
    • "We are not going to let things that CNN is doing... impact the rest of what we do. And that is a problem with corporate owned media and... not a problem with the Bulwark where this is all we do. So we'll just say the stuff that's obvious. He's connected to wrongdoing. He has done wrong things." – JVL [13:43]

4. Actual Claims vs. Media Hedging

• JVL and Andrew point out that while CNN refrains from stating legal conclusions, there are numerous public accusations and suspicious behavior associated with Trump, including accusations from Epstein accusers and Trump’s own admissions in interviews.
  • Quote:
    • "It is fact incorrect that Donald Trump has not been accused of wrongdoing in about a thousand different ways, including in about six different ways related to this very story they're all reporting on right now." – Andrew Ager [09:02]
• The "where there's smoke, there's fire" refrain from Democrats is noted and critiqued as coordinated messaging, possibly intended to skirt direct legal claims but still imply wrongdoing.

5. Chilling Effect on Journalism

• The hosts reflect on the broader journalistic implications: when outlets police their language overly carefully, it encourages a form of self-censorship that ultimately serves the interests of powerful actors rather than the public.
  • Quote:
    • "The whole point here is to make journalists look over their shoulder and feel like, oh, are we going to get in trouble for doing totally fair by-the-numbers aggressive reporting about this administration? Like that's the, that's the recipe, right?" – Andrew Ager [12:07]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• JVL’s Satirical Wrap-Up:
  "Many, some would say too many, many. People are saying with tears in their eyes that Donald Trump is doing wrongdoing. Hit like, hit subscribe, follow the channel. We'll be back. Good luck, America." [14:23]
• On Media Censorship:
  "It's funny to imagine a counterfactual where they actually were very precise about this... you have to layer on so many qualifiers in order to make it not true. Because he has been accused of inappropriate sexual behavior toward young women, including by certain of Epstein's own accusers." – Andrew Ager [10:34]
• On Corporate Media Priorities:
  "CNN is this tiny little insignificant part of it... we're not going to let that impact the rest of what we do. And that is a problem with corporate owned media." – JVL [13:43]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:00 – 02:18: CNN anchor John Berman clarifies Trump is not accused of wrongdoing; guest Dave Min pushes back on circumstantial evidence.
• 03:55 – 04:46: Brianna Kyler, another CNN anchor, uses similar language; discussion on guest talking points.
• 04:52 – 06:58: Hosts speculate about CNN's possible internal directive due to legal threats.
• 06:58 – 09:02: Deep dive into the vagueness of "wrongdoing" as a term and how networks use it.
• 09:02 – 12:07: Broader pattern of lawsuits, chilling effect on reporting, and media organizations’ motivations.
• 13:43 – 14:26: Critique of corporate-owned media’s influence on journalism; Bulwark's independent position.

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Takeaway

JVL and Andrew Ager argue that CNN's repeated use of the phrase "not accused of wrongdoing" is a defensive maneuver driven by corporate and legal anxieties rather than journalistic rigor. This pattern of self-censorship, they warn, erodes meaningful public accountability and ultimately empowers those in power—precisely the scenario solid, independent journalism is meant to guard against.

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Transcript

[Chris Counahan]

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[JVL]

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[JVL]

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[Chris Counahan]

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[JVL]

Hey everybody, this is JVL here with my bulwark colleague Andrew Ager. We're going to talk about this weird thing CNN has where they're trying to cover for Donald Trump. Before we do it, though, go ahead, hit, like, hit. Subscribe, follow the channel. It. It helps us more than you could possibly know. Okay, so, Andrew, this morning my ears pricked up when John Berman of CNN had on one of the Democrats on the oversight committee. And in the course of their conversation, Berman went out of his way to say that Donald Trump has not been accused of any wrongdoing.

[Chris Counahan]

Again, I do want to say we have no reason to think that he was in any way involved with that check itself. Also no reason to think he's detected any wrongdoing involving Jeffrey Epstein. You noted you're a prosecutor, you're a lawyer. Here there's this definition.

[Dave Min]

I would say we have lots of reasons to think he was involved in wrongdoing. I mean, at this point, there's a lot of smoke, there may be some fire. But I would just push back and say I think there's a lot of reason to think Donald Trump was involved.

[Chris Counahan]

Involved with what? I'm sorry, what exactly? What proof do you have that he was involved with wrongdoing in regards to Jeffrey Epstein? And if that's the case, where. Why have there been no prosecutions over 20 years here? Because there haven't really been any allegations that he was involved with wrongdoing.

[Dave Min]

There are a lot of connections where Donald Trump was named. Right. We had a 14 year old claiming that she was raped by him, then withdrew that claim after she was apparently threatened. His name appears a lot. And again, we, at this point, our job is to find justice for these survivors. And that means that we need to continue digging knowing that there is a cover up taking place right now. And I didn't say that we have proof at this point. We have like a lot of smoke. But Donald Trump's name is clearly mentioned multiple times. We've seen him lie over and over about things that we now know to be true. So again, I think that we, as the oversight committee deserve, we owe an obligation to the girls, the American people out there to keep digging and find out the truth, whoever's involved.

[Chris Counahan]

Again, you know, Donald Trump has not been named in any connection or charged with any wrongdoing there. Ghislaine Maxwell, take this for what it is. But Ghislaine Maxwell said, you know, she never saw Donald Trump or anyone for that matter engaged in any wrongdoing connected to Jeffrey Epstein.

[JVL]

So it's a little weird. It's a little weird. And I would say it's important to note that, you know, people get their talking points. And so Dave Min, the Democrat here, he, he does. Where there's smoke, there's fire. And we're going to listen to another clip in a second and you'll hear another Democrat use the exact same expression and so clearly like, oh, we've gotten our marching orders. We're supposed to say, where there's smoke, there's fire. But then later on in the day, CNN had another Democrat on and this time it was Brianna Kyler who says the same thing about there not being any wrongdoing.

[Brianna Kyler]

Well, look, we say where there's smoke, there's fire. And when it comes to Trump and Epstein, there's more smoke than at a Texas barbecue. I mean, Trump campaigned on releasing the Epstein files. Then his attorney general seemingly reminded him that he's probably all up in these files. And so now Trump and his spokespeople are trying to cover it up. But we are going to make sure that there is transparency in this case. I just recently, along with other Republican and Democratic members, met with nearly a dozen of the survivors in this case. And these crimes are horrific. And we need to make sure that everyone is held accountable because no president, no head of a bank or a financial institution, no powerful person should be able to get away with these kinds of crimes held Unaccountable.

[Andrew Ager]

We should note, it's important too. There has been, we've seen no sign of wrongdoing on Trump's part this time.

[JVL]

That just sort of comes out of nowhere in the course of their conversation. And I'm just speculating here. We'll wait for Oliver Darcy to report this in status news later on today or tomorrow. But it sure sounds to me like somebody at CNN given on air personalities a talking to about making sure that they say in interviews like this that Donald Trump has not been connected to any wrongdoing. That's the word that they're all supposed to use. Did this jump out at you too, Andrew?

[Andrew Ager]

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, it doesn't take sort of a rocket scientist to put two and two together here. I mean, obviously news outlets are worried. They've got reason to be worried. They know that the White House's story on all this stuff makes no sense. And they know that when the White House's story makes no sense, what their kind of first and last tool they've reached for in their toolkit has been is to sue the parties responsible for breaking the news. I mean, the White House is already in $10 million litigation against the Wall Street Journal for reporting on the existence of this letter in the letter, which obviously exists, as we now know from the documents that were released yesterday. But the fact that the Wall Street Journal's reporting has been vindicated has not led the White House to back off. The fact that their, their lawsuit is going to remain ongoing has in fact been one of their main talking points in responding to the latest tranche of, of news. And, and you know, it's, it's plainly like the higher the temperature gets here, the more they're pressing down the pedal of litigation. So I don't know whether there have been, you know, behind the scenes threats about possible litigation or whether this is, this sort of thing is just sort of pre complying and kind of trying to get out in front of any possible litigation on the part of the White House against outlets like CNN for just talking about these stories. But obviously there's, there's something like that going on underneath the surface here.

[JVL]

Yeah. And I want to be pretty clear here that wrongdoing is a very interesting word to use because it is not a legal term there. I mean, they're the world of yo, go and open up Black's Law Dictionary. And there, there are lots of very like assault is a legal word as a legal meaning. So it is treason. So does misconduct. Right. So all of these Things you can define in legal ways. Wrongdoing isn't like that. There is no like. Well, you know, if circumstance X, Y and Z takes place and outcomes A, B or C are reached, then that is wrongdo. That's not a word in law. And so the Democrats in these interviews aren't making legal arguments. They're not saying Donald Trump committed crime X. They're not saying that. They're just talking about this news event. And CNN feels the need to interrupt and say, well, the President hasn't been connected to any wrongdoing, which again, it's like a non sequitur because again, what is wrongdoing? There is no such thing. And nobody has charged him with wrong. There's no prosecutor who has come and said, we've indicted you on wrongdoing. And so it is purely running cover for Trump. That's all it is. It's just the network going and running cover for Trump. And I have to say, I mean, if wrongdoing is just like a moral term, then it does seem the President is connected to some wrongdoing.

[Andrew Ager]

Yeah, you think? I mean, that was exactly my thought here.

[JVL]

If nothing else, he did lie to America about the existence of this thing and claimed that it was a hoax and it didn't exist. He did knowingly file a baseless definition suit against the Wall Street Journal and Rupert Murdoch that seems like it might be wrongdoing.

[Andrew Ager]

He did write an insanely creepy at best and just sort of grotesque letter to notorious sex pedophile Jeffrey Epstein back in the early 2000s. I mean, yeah, sure. I mean, if you want to be CNN and say Donald Trump has not been accused of any crime, he's a convicted felon thing. Yeah, you can't say that he is a convicted felon. There's no, there's no kinds of wrongdoing he hasn't been accused of. It is fact incorrect that Donald Trump has not been accused of wrongdoing in about a thousand different ways, including in about six different ways related to this very story they're all reporting on right now. So yeah, that's a little bit of a po faced hand up the butt and, and moving your mouth like a puppet sort of thing for all these CNN anchors.

[JVL]

Because again, I want to be very clear, I understand lawyers are very careful. And if somebody came on your air and made this sort of allegation, that opens you up to a defamation claim. Like they said Joe Smith committed treason, which is a thing that I hear people say on Fox all the time, by the way, treason is A legal word with a legal definition. It is a real thing. It's not, it's not like saying Joe Smith is fat. It's not saying that I think Joe Smith is ugly. Right. Those are just opinions. Everybody's allowed to have them. Saying someone committed treason is like, whoa, we're making a legal claim here. That is not what either of These guests on CNN's air did. They're, they're just like, they're just asking questions, Andrew.

[Andrew Ager]

They're just asking questions. It's funny to imagine a counterfactual where they actually were very precise about this sort of, you know, but covering thing that they were going to say. Like, now we just really want to be clear. Donald Trump has not been specifically accused of any sexual improprieties towards the same, same exact underage women that Jeffrey Epstein is alleged to have assaulted in any court of law. You know, like just, you have to layer on so many qualifiers in order to make it not true. Because he has been accused of inappropriate sexual behavior toward young women, including by certain of, of Epstein's own accusers over the years and by his own, you know, admission in interviews with Howard Stern back in the day about how he used to walk around backstage at his own Miss Teen USA pageants to sort of like observe all of the beautif young women in various states.

[JVL]

When I looked up my dictionary definition, it doesn't say that walking around the teenage girl's dressing room is wrongdoing. So if it doesn't say it's wrongdoing there, Andrew, I. So, but this is really the tell, right? So if CNN was merely trying to be super Catholic about things, then they would just spell it all out, just like you said. The fact that they are imprecise and like interrupting other people to run cover and say this, that's just, they're actually, they're trying to do the work, the vibes on this to make sure that the administration doesn't target them.

[Andrew Ager]

And this is what Trump wants, right? I mean, this is the exact reason why they would file all of these. I mean, it's not as though they have waited around for, for news reports that get sort of over their skis and, and sort of lay in wait for, for, for some, for some outlets to get some things wrong and then brought down the hammer. They have aggressively litigated against completely defensible, newsworthy factual stories like the Wall Street Journal's report here, you know, a couple months ago when, when they first brought this thing out, or like, like the, the ridiculous lawsuit that they filed against Ann Seltzer last year when, when her Iowa poll turned out not of eventual election results. And the whole point here is to make journalists look over their shoulder and feel like, oh, are we going to get in trouble for doing totally fair by the numbers aggressive reporting about this administration? Like that's the, that's the recipe, right? That's the cookbook. That's not like something that's just happened. And this is the, this is what happens when you have these companies that are owned by bigger companies. You know that, that this was the, the whole issue with CBS and Paramount and you know, we run it over and over again now that, that ultimately the people who own these companies decide that if that's the way the Trump administration is going to behave, we're not going to dig in our heels. We're not going to be extra sort of aggressive about holding them to account. We are going to let them decide where the line of acceptable reporting and acceptable discourse is and they're going to take that and they're going to run.

[JVL]

With it because we're Warner Brothers Discovery and our empire is enormous and CNN is this tiny little insignificant part of it. And we are not going to let things that CNN is doing, which are 2% of our business, a number I'm making up, I don't know that CNN is only 2%. This is just a figure of speech. Please don't take me, take me seriously. Not literally. We're not going to let that impact the rest of what we do. And that is a problem with corporate owned media and shameless plug, not a problem with the bulwark where this is all we do. So we'll just say the stuff that's obvious. He's connected to wrongdoing. He has done wrong things.

[Andrew Ager]

Many, some would say too many, many.

[JVL]

People are saying with tears in their eyes that Donald Trump is doing wrongdoing. Hit like hit. Subscribe, follow the channel. We'll be back. Good luck, America.