Bulwark Takes – "Why Did the GOP Stop Caring About Nazis?" (w/ John Avlon)

Date: October 23, 2025
Host: Sam Stein (A)
Guest: John Avlon (B)

Episode Overview

This episode of Bulwark Takes explores the troubling increase of neo-Nazi attitudes and rhetoric within Republican circles. Host Sam Stein discusses recent revelations of pro-Hitler messages among young Republican operatives and the party’s hesitant or outright unwilling response to condemn such extremism. Guest John Avlon dives into historical context, draws lessons from the past, and challenges the normalization of these views on the American right.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction & Current GOP Corruption

• The White House’s Moral Rot: Conversation begins humorously referencing the literal and figurative "wrecking ball" currently impacting the White House, setting the tone for discussing deeper corruptions.
  • “The corruption and just the, you know, literally a wrecking ball to the White House, I think that's going to resonate...” — John Avlon [00:22]
• Pivot to Nazi Issues: Stein smoothly segues from the East Wing drama to the recent stories around neo-Nazism and Nazi admiration surfacing among young Republican professionals.

2. The Nazi Sympathies Scandals

• Three Major Incidents Highlighted:
  • Leaked young Republican group chat messages expressing admiration for Hitler (“I love Hitler”).
  • Paul Ingrassia, a Trump White House appointee, describing himself as having a “Nazi streak.”
  • The broader Republican response: whether to denounce these individuals or follow the “no enemies to my right” approach popularized by figures like J.D. Vance.
• Age & Responsibility:
  Both agree the term "young" is misleading since these are adults and established party professionals, not actual kids.
  • “These are people who are old enough to know better and the fact that this is percolating… shows that there is a dangerous rot inside the modern Republican Party under Donald Trump.” — John Avlon [03:47]

3. Historical Context & the Conservative Tradition

• GOP Has (Mostly) Avoided Such Extremes:
  Avlon recalls how in previous eras, even radical right-wing movements (like the John Birch Society) were denounced by conservative leaders, using William Buckley as an example.
  • “The Birchers weren't Nazis… the fact you've got this percolating beneath the surface… is a problem.” — John Avlon [05:01]
• Policing Extremes:
  Bipartisan bad actors exist, but neo-Nazi sympathies on the right are historically new and dangerous.

4. Why Is Nazi Admiration Rising?

• Multiple Factors:
  • Distance from WWII/ignorance of history.
  • The online disinformation and troll culture rewards "edgy," offensive behaviors.
  • A lack of forceful condemnation ("from the top," i.e., party leaders).
• Notable Insight:
  “When you're dealing with Hitler, ignorance of history is no excuse. This is something that anyone with a high school education should know about.” — John Avlon [06:04]
• Disinformation Ecosystem:
  Figures like Nick Fuentes gain influence, creating a feedback loop where extremism becomes normalized or even rewarded.

5. January 6th, Charlottesville, and the Feedback Loop

• Nazi Presence at Major Events:
  Avlon points to the visible Nazi admiration among January 6 insurrectionists (“Camp Auschwitz guy,” Nazi salutes, etc.) and prior incidents like Charlottesville.
• Warning:
  “If you find Nazis finding common cause with you, it's time for a long look in the mirror and to call it out unequivocally.” — John Avlon [07:38]

6. Counterarguments & Moral Equivalence

• Addressing “What About” Arguments:
  • Sam Stein brings up the case of Seneca mayoral candidate Graham Platner (Democrat) and his Nazi tattoo.
  • Avlon insists that both sides should police their own extremes, but there's no current left-wing equivalent of open Nazi sympathies among prominent Democrats.
  • “If you can't clearly condemn it, then you're complicit.” — John Avlon [09:44]

7. The Real-World Consequences and What Must Change

• Paul Ingrassia's Outcome:
  He only withdrew his nomination but remains in the administration; the White House has failed to condemn him publicly.
• Double Standards in Reaction:
  Right-wing pundits are quick to denounce leftist missteps, but ignore or excuse Nazi-adjacent behaviors in their own ranks—even when called out by conservative voices like Eric Erickson.
  • “...it's mostly people being like, shut up, Eric. Or when Paul put up his statement saying he was not gonna continue his nomination, is mostly people saying, like, you got to keep fighting, buddy.” — Sam Stein [11:10]
• Tone from the Top:
  Avlon stresses that allowing individuals with explicit Nazi sympathies to remain signals tacit approval from leadership.
  • “In every organization, Tone comes from the top right.” — John Avlon [11:44]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• John Avlon on Failing to Police Extremism:
  “We are only good if we are able to police our own sides in politics.” [04:00]
• On the Dangers of Normalizing Nazis:
  “If you can't clearly condemn it, then you're complicit.” [09:44]
• Sam Stein On Online Ecosystem:
  “...if you look at the comment threads... like, it is mostly people being like, shut up, Eric. ...So I. I worry that we're. We're heading in the wrong direction.” [11:12]
• Avlon’s Closing Warning:
  “The fact that a guy who says I've got a strong Hitler strain in me is still working for this White House is itself a huge problem that should preoccupy everyone who claims to give a damn combating Hitlerism and anti Semitism as we all should not good man.” [11:45]

Important Timestamps

• 00:45–02:24: Overview of recent Nazi-sympathizer scandals in GOP circles
• 03:18–03:47: Discussion of the traditional third-rail status of Nazism in U.S. politics
• 05:01–05:36: History of GOP leaders policing their own extremes
• 06:04–06:56: Examination of the rise in Nazi admiration and contributing societal factors
• 07:04–07:38: January 6th and Charlottesville as evidence of growing Nazi sympathies
• 09:44: Avlon forcefully rejects moral equivalence arguments between current party cultures
• 11:12–11:45: The online atmosphere and tacit approval from leaders contributing to the normalization of extremism

Closing Thoughts

The conversation concludes with both Stein and Avlon voicing deep concern that the normalization of Nazi-adjacent rhetoric is not being seriously challenged by the Republican establishment. While instances of self-policing exist among conservative media, these remain the exception, often drowned out by voices excusing or downplaying the danger. The episode urges listeners—and party leaders—to confront and root out such extremism unequivocally.