Podcast Summary: "Why is Trump's New Guy Hot for Hitler’s Ship?"
Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Hosts: Han JVL & Ben Parker
Date: August 16, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode dives into the controversy surrounding E.J. Antoni, Trump's nominee for the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), who has drawn attention for featuring a large picture of the German WWII battleship Bismarck—complete with Nazi iconography—in his public appearances. The hosts discuss what this fascination says about Antoni, its symbolism for Trump-era politics, and why it raises deeper questions about historical memory, extremism, and public service.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The News Story & Context ([00:00]–[01:14])
- E.J. Antoni, a 37-year-old who has never managed a large organization, is nominated to lead the 2,000-person BLS.
- Notably, during guest podcast appearances, Antoni often sits with a large depiction of the Nazi battleship Bismarck behind him.
- The hosts question: Why such an image? Is this meaningful, or just "Navy porn"?
"I think this is the first guest we've had with ... a beautiful warship behind them. The Bismarck. ... In all his glory."
— Han JVL [00:17]
2. What the Bismarck Represents ([01:14]–[04:29])
Symbolism & Relevance
- Ben Parker explains that the Bismarck is a fitting symbol for "Trumpism":
- Built illegally in Germany, circumventing treaty limits—akin to "Trump with his apartment, just saying it's much smaller than it is and actually it's much bigger." ([01:52])
- Like Trumpian excess: "It was big. It was very big and made of metal. Also constructed illegally." ([01:32])
- Despite size, the Bismarck was of little military value—emphasizing symbol over substance.
Ultra-Niche Obsession
- The ship was not even the largest of its era: "If you're just into battleships, [Bismarck is] not the biggest, right? Didn't the Japanese have a bigger one?" ([03:25])
- The hosts compare Bismarck to the Japanese Yamato, which was larger and lasted longer, accentuating the strangeness of Antoni's fixation.
3. The "Trad Cath" Backstory and J6 Connections ([04:29]–[06:12])
- Antoni’s background: Former seminarian, contributor to far-right media before his nomination.
- He attended the events of January 6th—depicted as just a bystander—but raises questions about his judgment and motivations.
4. The Problem with Normalizing Nazi Imagery ([06:12]–[09:11])
- The hosts debate whether featuring Nazi war memorabilia is overblown or a genuine concern:
- Reference to former Rep. Madison Cawthorn, who also posted Nazi-associated content.
- "People should ask him ... what's so compelling about the Bismarck? ... Why not, for example, just ... the USS Missouri, where WWII ended?" ([06:53])
- The Bismarck is not a generic German ship but a product of Nazi policy and ideology.
"This was a battleship that was designed and laid down by the Nazi German government ... for the purpose of aggression against Germany's neighbors. It is a total Nazi project."
— Ben Parker [08:24]
5. Edge-Lording, Aesthetic Provocation, and What It Really Signals ([07:59]–[08:24])
- Is Antoni simply trolling liberals ("triggering the snowflakes") or genuinely drawn to this content?
- Han suggests Antoni's Bismarck-admiration is "14 words kind of stuff," referencing far-right coded language.
6. Imagery, Identity, and Odd Choices ([09:11]–[10:23])
- Antoni's appearance and self-presentation suggest intentionality—like the "weird goatee" and penchant for rebranding, compared to J.D. Vance.
- "Nobody looks like that by accident... he's changed his name." ([09:49])
7. What Senators Should Ask During Confirmation ([10:23]–[11:03])
- Parker proposes senators ask about the Nazi economic record: "What do you think of Hitler's employment statistics?" ([10:26])
- Raises the issue of data manipulation in autocracies.
8. Misgendering Warships and Culture War Ironies ([11:03]–[12:42])
- The hosts note Antoni calls the Bismarck “he,” counter to naval tradition (ships as "she"), perhaps inadvertently referencing right-wing talking points about pronouns.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Trumpian symbolism:
"Built illegally. Huge symbolic thing. ... They just said it was much smaller than it was and actually it's much bigger. Sort of like Trump with his apartment."
— Ben Parker [01:46] -
On why Bismarck is a weird enthusiast’s choice:
"Weird that you would choose ... the one that had, you know, giant swastikas painted on it and not much else going for it."
— Ben Parker [03:51] -
On Nazi associations:
"People asked [Cawthorn], 'Hey, dude, you seem really thrilled to be hanging out with Hitler stuff.' ... Which is exactly what Antoni also did by having this giant Nazi battleship in his background."
— Ben Parker [06:31] -
On the edge-lord aesthetic:
"Maybe it's intentionally shocking to be shocking, not because he really loves Nazi battleships, but because he knew it would trigger the snowflakes."
— Han JVL [08:04] -
On confirmation hearing questions:
"What do you think of Hitler's employment statistics? ... If he's a real fan of history, he should have some interesting thoughts about the problems with correct data in an autocratic government."
— Ben Parker [10:26]
Important Timestamps
- 00:00–01:14: Introduction to E.J. Antoni and the Bismarck photo
- 01:14–03:29: The history and (lack of) importance of the Bismarck
- 03:29–04:29: Comparing Bismarck to other WWII battleships
- 04:29–06:12: Antoni’s background, January 6th, and subsequent career
- 06:12–08:24: The implications of Nazi imagery and why intent matters
- 08:24–09:11: The Bismarck as a Nazi project, not just "German"
- 09:11–10:23: Antoni’s odd style, name changes, and presentation
- 10:23–11:03: What senators should ask; economic data in authoritarian regimes
- 12:13–12:42: Peculiarities of calling ships "he" and culture war ironies
Conclusion
The episode is a pointed and satirical dive into what might seem a niche story—Trump’s pick for a major statistical agency having a Nazi warship in his Zoom background—showing how these aesthetic and symbolic choices are anything but trivial in today’s politics. Han and Ben blend irreverence with genuine concern, leaving listeners questioning not only this odd personal affectation but the broader trends it reflects about extremism, historical memory, and government service.
"A little Nazi cosplay going on inside the high levels of the federal government. What could be better? Good luck, America."
— Han JVL [12:42]