Will SNAP's Collapse Force a Shutdown Resolution? (w/ Arthur Delaney)

Summary

Bulwark Takes Podcast Summary

Episode: Will SNAP's Collapse Force a Shutdown Resolution?
Date: October 31, 2025
Host: Sam Stein
Guest: Arthur Delaney (HuffPost reporter)

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the imminent crisis facing the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) due to the ongoing government shutdown, which has lasted over four weeks. Host Sam Stein brings on Arthur Delaney, a veteran reporter on food assistance issues, to break down the mechanics of SNAP, the political showdowns threatening its continuation, and the real impact on millions of struggling Americans as benefits risk running dry.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Background on SNAP

• What is SNAP?
  • Formerly known as food stamps; a federal food assistance program established after the Great Depression.
  • Now serves about 40 million individuals across 22 million households.
  • Offers around $350/month per household for groceries.

    “It is one of the most responsive, most important economic programs that the federal government runs.” – Arthur Delaney [02:28]

• Cost to the Government:
  • Over $100 billion annually, especially after pandemic-related expansions and a permanent increase enacted by the Biden administration.

2. SNAP and the Shutdown Crisis

• The government shutdown has lasted over four weeks, a record length, leading SNAP to the brink of pausing benefits for the first time ever.
• SNAP has a $5 billion emergency fund, but the Department of Agriculture claims it cannot access these funds for technical and legal reasons.
• Past shutdown (2018–19) saw the Trump administration effectively intervene to avoid a SNAP lapse, albeit through administratively risky means.

3. Political and Legal Implications

• Democrats are holding out for enhanced Obamacare subsidies before agreeing to pass government funding, contributing to the continuation of the shutdown.
• Legislative efforts:
  • Democrats and some Republicans (e.g., Josh Hawley) have introduced bills to save SNAP independently, but party leadership has not rallied around these measures.
  • Procedural attempts (like unanimous consent in the Senate) have been blocked, with GOP leaders accusing Democrats of just trying to “make the shutdown easier on yourselves.” [John Thune, paraphrased, 06:13]
• Several Democratic state attorneys general have sued the administration to compel use of the SNAP emergency fund, receiving a sympathetic court hearing but pending any ruling as of the recording.

4. Historical Context: 2018 Shutdown

• The Trump administration averted a SNAP crisis by issuing future benefits early, a move later deemed illegal by the Government Accountability Office. They avoided using the contingency fund, which would have been the easier route.

  “They sent the money out several weeks early. It was a real administrative feat… later ruled illegal by the Government Accountability Office.” – Arthur Delaney [08:55]

5. Potential Outcomes and Human Impact

• Millions have already been told not to expect their SNAP benefits starting this weekend.

  “All these people, these 22 million households, have already been told no money for you because of the shutdown... Starting Saturday, millions of people will not receive the deposit on their EBT account.” – Arthur Delaney [12:01]

• The benefit disbursement schedule is staggered but will still leave many without funds if not rapidly resolved.
• Even if courts force the administration to pay SNAP from the emergency fund, significant delays and missed payments are likely.
• The pressure point is growing for both sides of the political standoff, with the risk of benefit lapses sharply felt and highly visible to the public.

6. On-the-Ground Reality

• Delaney emphasizes how this crisis is easily understood by everyday Americans, cuts across political lines, and is widely unpopular.

  “You get money every month for food, it can only be used for food. There's not really that much controversy. This program is popular and it's stopping as a direct result of what people are doing in the U.S. capitol.” – Arthur Delaney [15:08]

• While no immediate starvation is likely, missing benefits cause real hardship and spark significant public anger.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Responsiveness of SNAP:

  “If you're poor or you lose your job, you can quickly sign up for this. It is one of the most responsive, most important economic programs that the federal government runs. And so it has never stopped before. And that's a big deal outcome of a government shutdown...” — Arthur Delaney [02:28]

• On Administrative Excuses:

  “They made this litany of arguments for why they can't do it. But obviously that money's there for a reason, and they could if they wanted to.” — Arthur Delaney [04:58]

• On Political Ironies:

  “Republicans actually spent all year saying this program coddles single adults who play video games all day…everything is kind of mixed up and flipped around and there's a lot of nuance.” — Arthur Delaney [06:13]

• On Public Sentiment:

  “This one really breaks through because it's just not complicated. You get money every month for food…It pisses people off and potentially makes them hungry.” — Arthur Delaney [15:08]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |----------------------------------|--------------| | Introduction & Arthur’s track record | 00:59–01:37 | | What is SNAP? | 02:28–03:28 | | SNAP’s cost & significance | 03:28–04:39 | | Shutdown’s impact on SNAP | 04:39–06:13 | | Political & legislative wrangling| 06:13–07:25 | | Lessons from the 2018 shutdown | 08:55–09:53 | | Lawsuits & pending court action | 09:53–11:12 | | What happens if SNAP stops? | 12:01–13:04 | | Can payments resume in time? | 13:22–14:29 | | Human impact of benefit loss | 15:08–15:57 |

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Final Thoughts

The episode underscores that the SNAP crisis is more than a technical funding dispute—it’s a full-blown human emergency with clear, immediate effects on millions of Americans. The political blame game is in full swing, while those dependent on SNAP face uncertainty and possible hunger as leaders in Washington remain deadlocked.

The hosts encourage listeners to support local food banks in the meantime and urge policymakers to recognize the urgent real-world stakes.

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Transcript

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[Sam Stein]

Preess everybody. Hello. Welcome back to the Bull Work. It's me, Sam Stein, managing editor at this site, and I'm joined by Arthur Delaney, a f. A friend of the Bull Work, a repeat guest. We debated having him back on because he was so atrociously, terribly wrong with his prediction about how long the government shutdown would last. It's true what you say. Three weeks.

[Arthur Delaney]

I said it would be three weeks, but I. There was a caveat, Sam, which was that I don't know. It's a reckless prediction because you asked me to make a reckless prediction, so.

[Sam Stein]

Well, either way, you were wrong.

[Arthur Delaney]

Yes, I was wrong.

[Sam Stein]

And I questioned whether to have you back. But we're going to give you another chance. We're going to talk about actually serious topic, which is snap, the food assistance program that is expiring tomorrow. The Congress and the administration are not. The Congress not passing a bill to release the emergency funds. The administration is saying it can't release the emergency funds. There is a court decision that could potentially impact this. But let's start even further back because Arthur, people should know this about Arthur. Arthur's been reporting on this stuff for as long as I can remember. He's one of the few reporters in Washington, D.C. who obsesses about this issue. And so for the people who are not necessarily well versed on this program, Arthur, tell us a little bit about snap and then we can get into the contours of the current issue at hand.

[Arthur Delaney]

The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program. It was called food stamps when it started in a pilot program after the Great Depression. And it's been just ramped up all through the 20th century, to the point where nobody is starving anymore. In the United States, 40 million people get benefits. I think it might be more accurate to think of it as 22 million households containing all those people. And it gives you about 350amonth to buy whatever you want at a grocery store. And so if you're poor or you lose your job, you become poor, you can quickly sign up for this. It is one of the most responsive, most important economic programs that the federal government runs. And so it has never stopped before. And that's a big deal outcome of a government shutdown, because we never had a government shutdown that went this long. And the last time we did, the Trump administration didn't let this happen. This time they will. So it's a very big deal.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah. I just want to emphasize this. There might not be. I mean, sure there is, but it's among the most successful public policy initiatives in our nation's history. It's helped almost eradicate hunger in America. And to your point, it's an incredible economic stimulus because if you're not having to spend your money on food, you can spend your money on things that are of other necessity to you. How big is this? You mentioned how big the program is, but how much does it cost the government roughly a year to administer SNAP?

[Arthur Delaney]

Oh, it's really big money. It's more than $100 billion a year right now. The cost went up a lot because of the pandemic, and then the Biden administration made a big increase permanent. So when Republicans talk about the increase in the cost of this program, they're right. And that's one reason this is significant for the economy. It's $8 billion or $9 billion a month. And so having this money vanish will be a big deal, although we all expect that money to be put back whenever the shutdown is resolved. So it's like a temporary problem that will eventually be resolved. That doesn't mean there won't be chaos for household food budgets in the meantime.

[Sam Stein]

Okay, so the current situation is that government shut down. It's been shut down for almost four plus weeks. There is a emergency fund within snap, as I understand it, but the people who administer snap, in this case, the Department of Agriculture, say they cannot access those funds. Is that a correct assessment of the situation?

[Arthur Delaney]

Yeah, and this is being hashed out in court. There's about $5 billion in the emergency fund, so it's enough to actually cover most of the November SNAP benefit. And they're just saying we can't. It would be too technically difficult. We have to reprogram everything to create partial benefits. We've never done that before. And then we'd have to switch it back. We don't know if it's legal. So they made this litany of arguments for why they can't do it. But obviously that money's there for a reason, and they could if they wanted to. The Trump administration's moving around all kinds of money in questionable ways in order to make the shutdown not as bad for troops, for example, for certain federal workers. So this is a chance for Democrats to go on offense when they're the ones who have really precipitated the crisis by refusing to vote for government funding and holding out for Obamacare subsidies.

[Sam Stein]

So Democrats have said we're not going to reopen the government unless there's some resolution on these expiring enhanced Obamacare subsidies. As SNAP is close now to basically expiring, what are the legislative attempts, not the legal attempts, to get those benefits back into law even if the government is or remains shut down.

[Arthur Delaney]

Yeah. So this week, Democrats in the House and on the Senate side introduced SNAP only bills just to save snap. And also Josh Hawley, a Missouri Republican in the Senate had a SNAP bill as well. These aren't being done at the leader level, so it's not like the parties strike strategy. And a Democrat in the Senate, Ben Ray Lujan from New Mexico, tried to get unanimous consent, meaning like no vote, just approve my SNAP bill. And John Thune, the majority leader, came out and blocked him and made a big show out of it and saying essentially you guys are just trying to make the shutdown easier on yourselves by mitigating this one harm, when really you have a responsibility to fund the whole government. So the politics of this are really mixed up. Usually Republicans. Republicans actually spent all year saying this program coddles single adults who play video games all day. And they cut it. They're kicking millions of people off the program over the next 10 years. This was one of the big pay fors in their tax cut bill. So everything is kind of mixed up and flipped around and there's a lot of nuance. But definitely, even if they solve the problem today, there's gonna be an interruption. For a lot of people, being an.

[Sam Stein]

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[Arthur Delaney]

So, yeah, the shutdown that Trump caused by demanding a border wall, they saw this second month snap cliff coming and they said, no way are we letting that happen. And they didn't even go to the emergency fund. They just said, we're gonna pay next month's benefits right now. And so they sent the money out several weeks early. It was a real administrative feat, like a feat of programming those systems that supposedly are so difficult they can't do it this time. Yeah. And the government accounting I at the time was like, why are you doing that? That's crazy complicated. Why don't you just say, this is the law says these benefits have to go out. Why don't you just say, we're going to follow that law and go ahead and sue us? But they didn't. They did something more complicated and it was later ruled illegal by the Government Accountability Office. You know what they said? They said, why didn't you just tap the contingency fund? It was right there.

[Sam Stein]

So here we are, and they have the contingency fund and they're refusing to tap it. But they also have not gone ahead like they did in 2018 and rushed the second month benefits out. Instead, they're saying the wells run dry. But there are a number of Democratic states or state attorneys general who have sued the administration saying, no, you, this is what the emergency contingency fund is for. We are literally in an emergency, you have to spend this money. And they did get a fairly good ruling in their favor. A sympathetic ruling in their favor or not a ruling, I should say Sympathetic hearing in their favor yesterday. What, what exactly happened?

[Arthur Delaney]

Well, we're, I mean, they just said what, what we went over. The money's there. Pay the money for these reasons. They also said you could look at the tariff money, you could move child nutrition money. There's plenty of it. And the administration's like, doing that would be risky. We'd have no money for disasters. Whatever. A judge sounded sympathetic to the Democrats. We're waiting on that ruling. And it would be, I think, an injunction that would require the government to pay the money. Even if they get that, it's not going to go out on its usual schedule because looking at this in a matter of hours.

[Sam Stein]

Let's talk about it right now. I just want to note for, for the audience's benefit, we're recording this at like 11:15 on Friday in the morning. So it's possible that we get a ruling from that judge in between when we record this and we publish this. Also, I should note right before we recorded this, Brooke Rollins, who heads the U.S. department of Agriculture, was asked if the administration would respect a ruling requiring them to send out the SNAP benefits. And she said, we're going. She was non committal. She just said, we're going to look at all options. All right, so what happens tomorrow? Let's say, let's say in theory, there's no ruling that comes between now and tomorrow. And we. And let's just say in theory that they don't have to release the funds. They choose not to release the funds. Even if there is a ruling. What happens for, like, real human beings who depend on SNAP?

[Arthur Delaney]

So, first of all, all these people, these 22 million households, have already been told no money for you because of the shutdown. And the USDA has been really aggressive. They say Senate Democrats have blown it. The well has run dry because they want transgender surgery. There's this insane statement on usda.gov so people are already going through whatever they're gonna go through when they're told their food budget will be whatever fraction of what it normally is for them. Starting Saturday, millions of people will not receive the deposit on their EBT account, which they use a debit card to use this money at a grocery store. Not everyone gets their benefits on the first of the month. It's staggered in every state, usually over the first 10 days, but some states is as late as the 28th. So it's possible that maybe there's a solution and some people aren't affected by it at all. But definitely, definitely, no matter what, a lot of People, millions of people are going to miss out on snap benefits starting this weekend.

[Sam Stein]

And let's say they do have a resolution be true. Let's say the judge comes in and says no, you have to spend that money. And the administration says fine, we will spend the money. Can they like turn the spigots on and go through the systems in time so that no one misses any payments whatsoever?

[Arthur Delaney]

I think it'll be too late for nobody to miss it. But I have more faith in administrative capacity to get the money out than they are letting on in their response to the Democratic lawsuit. But I think the major impact of that, I mean it'd be great for people who need money to buy food, but I think that would have a major impact on the shutdown dynamic because this is by far with troop pay off the table. This is by far the biggest thing that's happening now. It's a lot pressure point, pressure point on both sides, but especially on Democrats. Cuz you know, you're trying to defend people, people from health insurance premium spikes. It's a similar number of people, 20, 20 million plus households. But this is now, this is right now, not in January. And it's clear why it's happening. Whereas the other thing is a little bit more far off and theoretical. And so I had been thinking this could force a resolution next week and if the court steps in and makes him pay the benefits, I would imagine that that would reduce the pressure for sure.

[Sam Stein]

I mean the other outcome here potentially is that the court steps in, says you have to do this. The administration says we're going to appeal or we don't agree with you and we're not going to do it. And then suddenly the administration's contention is that we're not legally able to tap this fund. But a judge told us we legally can tap this fund, but we're not going to legally tap the fund. It just doesn't make any sense. Which I think is an actual outcome that could could happen here. Last question. Because you do talk to recipients every now and then. Like let's get away from the technical and the legislative and the legal, like what are we talking about on a human level? Like what is missing this mean for people?

[Arthur Delaney]

Oh, it just sucks, man. I mean it's actually really easy to imagine. And actually people are talking about it all over local news stations around the country like this story. Even more than FAA and flight delays, this one really breaks through because it's just not complicated. You get money every month for food, it can only be used for food. There's not really that much controversy. This program is popular and it's stopping as a direct result of what people are doing in the U.S. capitol. And so it pisses people off and potentially makes them hungry. I think the longer it goes on, the more significant that becomes. It's not like this is anyone's entire frame food budget. I don't think you'd see any immediate starvation, but this is definitely a big deal.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, well, listen, I'm going to take off the news hat for a second and put on a personal hat, which is that if you're watching this and and the crisis has not or the standoff has not been resolved, do consider giving to a local food bank, especially at this time. They're doing God's work and they're feeding people who need it. So think about doing that. All right, Arthur, thanks a bunch, man. I really appreciate you walking us through this. I do also encourage people to follow his reporting because he is doing great work on the SNAP story. You can check him out at HuffPost. He's doing ex exceptional stuff there. So, Artie, appreciate you coming on the program. Appreciate everyone for watching. Subscribe to our feed too. Can't just plug HuffPost. Subscribe to our feed too. Talk to you later.

[Arthur Delaney]

Thanks for having me.