Zohran Advisor: How We BEAT the Cuomo Machine

Summary

Bulwark Takes Episode Summary: "Zohran Advisor: How We BEAT the Cuomo Machine"

Release Date: July 1, 2025
Host: Lauren Eagan
Guest: Rebecca Katz, Democratic Strategist

In this insightful episode of Bulwark Takes, host Lauren Eagan engages in a deep conversation with Rebecca Katz, a seasoned Democratic strategist renowned for advising prominent figures like John Fetterman, Ruben Gallego, and most recently, Zohran Mamdani in his successful New York City mayoral race. The discussion centers around the strategies that enabled Mamdani to overcome the entrenched power of Andrew Cuomo, the Democratic Party's internal challenges, and the broader implications for future campaigns.

1. Lessons from Zohran Mamdani’s Campaign

A. Relentless Focus on Affordability

Rebecca Katz emphasizes that affordability was the cornerstone of Mamdani's successful campaign. "He was relentlessly on message, and that message was centered on affordability" ([00:48]). This focus included concrete policies such as freezing rent, providing free buses, and implementing universal childcare. Katz asserts that these straightforward, voter-centric policies made Mamdani's platform easily understandable and relatable, steering clear of socialist labels and instead directly addressing voters' immediate concerns.

B. Engaging Young Voters

A standout feature of Mamdani's campaign was its ability to mobilize young voters. Katz highlights the unprecedented turnout among younger demographics: "The number one voting block was 18 to 24. The number two voting block was 24 to 35... it was wild. You have never seen anything like that in any race, maybe ever" ([02:10]). This engagement was achieved by listening to youth concerns and presenting actionable solutions, contrasting with traditional dismissive attitudes towards younger voters.

2. Democratic Party’s Internal Challenges

A. The Curiosity Problem

Katz identifies a critical issue within the Democratic Party: a lack of curiosity about evolving voter needs. She draws parallels to the 2016 primaries, where the party failed to integrate Bernie Sanders' insights post-defeat. "Why didn't we in 2016... do an audit, figure out what went wrong?" ([03:00]). This oversight has led to a disconnection with voters who previously supported progressive candidates but shifted allegiance, sometimes to opponents like Trump.

B. Expanding the Tent vs. Purity Tests

The conversation delves into the tension between expanding the party's base and enforcing purity tests. Katz criticizes the tendency to exclude moderates and newcomers, advocating instead for an inclusive approach: "We have told a lot of people they don't belong here... keep an open mind. Are there things where we can find common agreement?" ([04:27]). This strategy aims to broaden the Democratic coalition by embracing diverse viewpoints and fostering unity around shared concerns.

3. The Hesitance to Endorse and Learn from New Leaders

A. Establishment Reluctance

Despite Mamdani's success, the Democratic establishment remains cautious in endorsing him. When Lauren asks about leaders like Schumer and Jeffries who have yet to endorse Mamdani, Katz responds: "They are so afraid to come near him... there’s pieces that they can get." ([05:26]). She suggests that leaders could adopt Mamdani's effective strategies on affordability while distancing themselves from certain beliefs, thereby leveraging his successful messaging without fully endorsing his platform.

B. Ineffectiveness of Negative Campaigning

Katz critiques Cuomo's use of negative attack ads against Mamdani, noting their ineffectiveness: "They just go at Zoran, like... Zoran Mandani is a terrorist, basically... it didn't work." ([05:26]). Despite extensive negative campaigning, voters remained undeterred, indicating a shift in voter receptiveness towards positive and issue-focused messaging.

4. Applying Mamdani’s Strategies to Other Races

A. Adaptability to Different States

When discussing the applicability of Mamdani's approach to races like the Iowa Senate race, Katz emphasizes the need for approachability and relatability across various demographics and regions: "You can still be approachable... communicate on a level that is normal and just speak to people." ([09:11]). She advocates for candidates to represent their electorate authentically, transcending geographical and cultural differences.

B. Personal Connection and Engagement

Rebecca underscores the importance of personal connections over scripted messages. She cites Ruben Gallego’s campaign in Arizona as an example where personal accountability and empathy resonated deeply with voters: "I want you to know it's not your fault... the system wasn't set up for them to succeed." ([11:29]). This approach fosters trust and aligns campaign messaging with voters' lived experiences.

5. Democratic Messaging in the Modern Media Landscape

A. Struggles with Effective Communication

Katz discusses the Democratic Party's ongoing messaging struggles, particularly in effectively communicating legislative efforts. Referring to the "big beautiful bill," she highlights a significant disconnect between the party's legislative actions and public awareness: "Nearly half of Americans haven't heard anything about the big beautiful bill." ([14:11]). This gap underscores the need for more robust and diverse communication strategies.

B. Embracing Modern Platforms

The conversation shifts to the necessity of utilizing modern media platforms like TikTok and Instagram to reach a broader, especially younger, audience. Katz laments the Democratic leadership's lack of proficiency on these platforms: "We need people directly talking to the voters and we don't have that many." ([16:36]). She advocates for electing officials who are native to digital media, enabling them to engage effectively with voters where they consume most of their information.

6. Recruitment and Candidate Selection

A. Beyond Traditional Metrics

Lauren raises the point that traditional metrics such as fundraising and TV ad buys are no longer sufficient for candidate success. Katz agrees, emphasizing the importance of engaging storyline and relatability over mere financial backing: "We've spent so long... telling the other side how scary they are... people want something to vote for." ([12:19]). This shift calls for a reevaluation of candidate recruitment strategies to prioritize personal connection and issue-based appeal.

B. Cultivating Comfortable Candidates

The necessity for candidates who are comfortable in front of the camera and adept at personal interactions is highlighted. While innate charisma helps, Katz believes that the emphasis should be on understanding and addressing voter concerns authentically: "People want to talk to candidates who understand what they're going through." ([11:56]).

7. Conclusion

Rebecca Katz's insights shed light on the transformative strategies that underpin successful modern Democratic campaigns. By focusing on affordability, engaging young voters, and embracing modern communication platforms, the Democratic Party can overcome internal challenges and reconnect with a broader electorate. The episode serves as a compelling call to action for the party to adopt more inclusive, relatable, and strategic approaches to campaigning in an evolving political landscape.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Rebecca Katz [00:48]: "He was relentlessly on message, and that message was centered on affordability."
• Rebecca Katz [02:10]: "The number one voting block was 18 to 24... it was wild. You have never seen anything like that in any race, maybe ever."
• Rebecca Katz [03:00]: "Why didn't we in 2016... do an audit, figure out what went wrong?"
• Rebecca Katz [04:27]: "We have told a lot of people they don't belong here... keep an open mind."
• Rebecca Katz [05:26]: "They just go at Zoran... it didn't work."
• Rebecca Katz [09:11]: "You can still be approachable... speak to people."
• Rebecca Katz [11:29]: "I want you to know it's not your fault... the system wasn't set up for them to succeed."
• Rebecca Katz [12:19]: "People want something to vote for."
• Rebecca Katz [14:11]: "Nearly half of Americans haven't heard anything about the big beautiful bill."
• Rebecca Katz [16:36]: "We need people directly talking to the voters and we don't have that many."

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the episode, providing a clear understanding of the strategies and challenges faced by the Democratic Party and offering actionable takeaways for future campaigns.

Transcript

[Lauren Eagan]

Hey, guys, it's Lauren Eagan here at the Bulwark. I have Democratic strategist Rebecca Katz here with me today. Rebecca has advised a number of Democratic politicians, including John Fetterman and Ruben Gallego, on both of their successful Senate campaigns. And she recently assisted with making ads for Zoran Mamdani's New York City mayoral race. Rebecca, how's it going?

[Rebecca Katz]

Hi. How are you? Hi.

[Lauren Eagan]

Doing well. Thanks for being here with us. I'm excited to chat with you. Yeah. So you just published a op ed in the New York Times, and it's all about what you think the Democratic Party should learn from Zoran's win in the primary. So give us, like, the big picture, what you see as the big takeaways for the party from that successful primary campaign.

[Rebecca Katz]

And let me just start by saying what works in a New York City Democratic primary. I am not saying works everywhere. I am saying there are lessons to be learned here. There are lessons about how he got young people engaged. There are young lessons about how he got Trump voters engaged that I think we should take away from it. And the number one thing is he was relentlessly on message, and that message was centered on affordability. And I think this is something that Democrats could do more of. We. We like to have plans and lists and all these things of all the things we're going to do. And that's great, but sometimes you need to remind voters why they want to vote for you. And with Zoram Ondani's race, it was very clear. Freeze the rent fast and free buses, universal childcare, and of course, making a city you can afford. Those are easy things for everyone to understand. That is not being a socialist candidate in New York City. That's talking about. That's talking about the voter, that's talking about their struggles. And I think it's something that we can learn from.

[Lauren Eagan]

Yeah. And you mentioned his ability to sort of expand the tent here. And I think the voter part was something that I was pretty.

[Rebecca Katz]

But that's, like, mind blowing how he got.

[Lauren Eagan]

Okay.

[Rebecca Katz]

Yeah.

[Lauren Eagan]

Put that into perspective. Like, what did you make of the young voter portion in particular? And how do you think he was able to do that?

[Rebecca Katz]

I mean, I think politicians have spent a lot of time crapping on young people and saying, like, you got, you know, like, you're gonna vote us, we're not the other guy. And if you don't like it, then you deserve what you get. Right. And we don't spend enough time actually listening and saying, you know, like, how do we make your life better for the future. You have your whole life ahead of you. How do we work to make this better? And I think Zoran's campaign kind of brought a lot of young people in. And it was. The number one voting black was 18 to 24. The number two voting black was 24 to 35. The number three voting block was 35. Like, it just. It was wild. You have never seen anything like that in any race, maybe ever.

[Lauren Eagan]

You also write in your piece that Democrats. You worry that Democrats won't learn anything from this race because you say the party suffers from a curiosity problem. What do you mean by that?

[Rebecca Katz]

Okay, so let's go back to 2016, right? You know, Hillary Clinton was kind of destined to be the nominee, and out of nowhere comes Bernie Sanders, Right? And Bernie Sanders kind of taps into something, and people get really excited, and he winds up losing. And instead of saying, hey, Bernie, like, we want to, like, bring your people in. We want to learn more from you, it was kind of like, ha, we crushed you. Goodbye. Right. And I'm saying, why didn't we in 2016, number one, do an audit, figure out, like, what went wrong? But then looking at the primary, figure out, like, what were those voters looking for? And. And I think the voters who voted for 20, who voted for Bernie in 2016, I think a lot of them voted for. For Trump in 2024. And if we had actually asked the question, why did Bernie do so well? Why did aoc, like, tap into something? What is. What is happening here? What's going on? You know, we have Pat Ryan in a purple district in New York. We have Chris Duzio out in Pittsburgh. You know, like, what are they tapping into? And I just. I want our leaders in Washington to, like, get curious about that instead of just saying, this is how you're supposed to do it.

[Lauren Eagan]

Yeah. And I think a lot of Democrats talk about how the party, like, has just focused too much on shrinking the tent and creating purity tests. But I think they talk about it in the sense of, like, we pushed out moderates or we pushed out people that are in the center. I mean, do you view that as something that kind of cuts in all different directions?

[Rebecca Katz]

I've heard from smart people in the past that, you know, elections are about addition. Right? Like, how do we. How do we make that tent bigger? And I think that we have told a lot of people they don't belong here. I mean, you see it happening after the win in New York, like, that, you know, that doesn't represent me. We're not saying you have to vote for the Democratic Socialist in New York City. Like, obviously, that's not gonna work everywhere. What we were saying is, like, keep an open mind. Are there things where we can find common agreement? Like, let's. Like, that is tapped into something with his voters. Does it work with voters around the country? And, like, why are we so afraid to.

[Lauren Eagan]

To ask the question now that he's, you know. Cuomo conceded the Democratic establishment has, you know, been a little bit chilly towards. Towards getting behind Zoran. I know Schumer and Jeffries, who both happen to be New Yorkers, have said that they're going to meet with him, but haven't endorsed him yet. Does that surprise you? Do you think that the party should get behind him?

[Rebecca Katz]

I think that there are things that if I'm a party leader, I can say, like, you can distance yourself from his. Some of his beliefs, but you can also say, like, affordability is a problem. You know, we were campaigning on it in 2024. We saw it's a problem. It's still a problem. He tapped into that. He had good messaging. Like, maybe there is something we can learn from that. Like, it's just like it is. They are so afraid to. To come near him. And I think there's. There's pieces that they can get. And by the way, Zoran won Hakeem Jeffrey's district by a lot, you know, So I think. I think they should get curious. I understand they're balancing a lot. Right. But one of the things we noticed about these attack ads in New York City was that they were on when I tell you the Cuomo super, like, they were just going at Zoran, like, 24 7. You turn on the news and. Or anything, actually, you just turn on the tv and it's just like, Zoran Mandani is a terrorist, basically. Was the message from that. Right. Or he's an anti summit or whatever it was. And it was just like, going at you, and it didn't work. It was, you know, 25, 30 million in negative attacks, and it didn't work. And I think voters want something a little bit different. I understand why leaders are afraid to come near him for whatever reason, but because Republicans have been using such hyperbolic language for so long, it's different now. Like, Zoram Ghani is everything they said Barack Obama was. He wasn't born here. He's a Muslim, he's a socialist. They went for years saying Barack Obama is all those things, and now they're. When they. When they're trying to make the argument on Zoran. It doesn't, it doesn't stick the same way. Do you know what I mean? Because they've already said it about everybody else and they're like, it's almost the.

[Lauren Eagan]

The like narrative on that is like almost cheapened because they've said it so right.

[Rebecca Katz]

I mean, Republicans are like the boy who cried wolf here in terms of like making Democrats sound scarier and scarier. And I think voters, voters at least in New York City aren't buying that.

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[Lauren Eagan]

What do you think a Zoron style campaign looks like in like the Iowa Senate race, for example? You're saying you know that like a DSA type candidate, someone who's going to call themselves a democratic socialist probably should not be the person that's running in the Iowa Senate race. But like what do you think that looks like?

[Rebecca Katz]

I think some of these red states being approachable. Right. And you, and it doesn't like whether you're at the Iowa State Fair or you're at like you're in New York State, like you can, you can still be approachable. Right. And I think that we should have elected officials and candidates who are representative of the electorate. They're trying to represent. Right. And I think that the more that we have people who can communicate on a. On a level that is, I would just say normal and just like, speak to people and like, not sound bites or talking points, but just like, as human beings or human beings, I think that's worth a lot. I think it's just about trying to get voters engaged and understanding what their problems are. We spend a lot of time about saying I and not enough time saying you. And I think the affordability message works across the board.

[Lauren Eagan]

Yeah. And on. In his campaign, he. Some of the videos that I thought were most effective was when he was just doing like, man on the street interviews and almost like flipping the script and how you talk about politics, where he was interviewing people about issues that they cared about and kind of taking that and then going forth in his campaign. Why do you think that Democrats struggle so much with that? Because it sounds like such a basic piece of politics to show up and talk to voters. Like, why is that so hard and a thing.

[Rebecca Katz]

I mean, I don't really have all the answers here. I want to be, you know, I will say that I, you know, I'm lucky enough to vote for, to have worked for some people that do understand it. Like, I did work for Ruben Gallego last cycle. Ruben Gallego is running in Arizona, which was a much different race. He's much more to the right than Zoramdani, but he understood the electorate. And a story I like to tell during his election was he was filming an ad about costs, and it was his first issue ad, and he was like laser focus on that. But he changed the script of it. And he said, I want, he added in the line, I want you to know it's not your fault. Right. That like, you know, people were struggling, everything was expensive and they tried as best as they could and they still couldn't pay their bills. And it wasn't their fault. It was that the system wasn't set up for them to succeed. Right. And that was Ruben Gallego in Arizona. That had nothing to do with New York City, but he was talking like on a personal level. He. He understood what they were going through.

[Lauren Eagan]

How much of this is like, things that a candidate can learn versus just it being innate. Like, Zoran just seems, you know, super comfortable in front of a camera. He seems super comfortable talking to voters. And, you know, can you.

[Rebecca Katz]

Don't you think we need candidates who are comfortable in front of the camera?

[Lauren Eagan]

Probably, if you want to win, probably.

[Rebecca Katz]

Whatever. Like, I think those days are over. Like, I think people want to talk to candidates who understand what they're going through. Right. It.

[Lauren Eagan]

Does that change then how you even go about recruiting candidates? Because I feel like even a few years ago, the playbook was you find someone who could give a pretty decent.

[Rebecca Katz]

You look at how, how much money.

[Lauren Eagan]

Can they raise, how many TV ads can they buy? And now that's like, almost like Cuomo dominated the TV airwaves, and now it's just like, okay, that doesn't get you that far.

[Rebecca Katz]

I mean, getting people engaged and like, giving them something to believe in is important. We've spent so long, like, telling the. Our people, like, how scary the other side is. And the other side, like, is scary. Right. It really is. But I think people also want something to vote for. Trump lied about a lot, Right. He like about what he said, but he made what he was saying, saying easy to understand, whether it's make America great again or no tax on tips or whatever. It was, it like, it. It was easy to know. And Zoran's campaign message easy to know. I think it's. It's trickier. Like, you know, the Harris campaign had a lot more joy than the Biden campaign, but I still think it's like, it wasn't, you know, broken down into, like, what does she stand for?

[Lauren Eagan]

Do you think she could have talked about? I mean, yeah, she's. It's a hard test case, obviously, but.

[Rebecca Katz]

I mean, she only had 100 days. That's like, I think I. And it's hard to be the change agent when you're literally the vice president. Right. And I think people want to change.

[Lauren Eagan]

Yeah. I mean, do you think that the past few Democratic presidential candidates, then in the past few cycles, like, should have focused on an economic message more? Or, like, what does that actually look like in practice in a national race?

[Rebecca Katz]

I think every year we take the lessons of, like, Bill Clinton triangulation without taking the more recent lessons of economic populism from the Obama campaign. Like, Obama really had a blueprint there, and for whatever reason, we didn't really ever, like, take that page and run with it. Do you know what I mean? It's been odd to me. We always go back to making sure all of our corporate donors are happy when we should be trying to figure out how do we bring more people in.

[Lauren Eagan]

Yeah. And we are talking right now as Congress is debating Trump's spending bill, also known as the big beautiful bill, which.

[Rebecca Katz]

Is also a Trumpism. It's a horrible, horrible, horrible bill that does terrible, terrible things. And because they called it a big beautiful bill. That's what he, that's what people are.

[Lauren Eagan]

Calling, it's what we're all calling it.

[Rebecca Katz]

Other side of that is that Biden, when he was, when the Democrats pushed through a bill, they still called it the bipartisan infrastructure plan, like bipartisan, which.

[Lauren Eagan]

I think speaks to some of the Democrats messaging struggles here. Right. And the, that's what I want to ask you about because there was this new poll that came out today. It was a Priorities USA poll. It said that nearly half of Americans haven't heard anything about the big beautiful bill. And only 8% of all Americans named Medicaid cuts is a detail that they have heard about, which is astonishing to me and I think just like a massive wake up call for Democrats. What do you think?

[Rebecca Katz]

I think that with Republicans in charge of everything and all of these terrible things about to happen, there's still a way for Republicans to say this is the Democrats fault and that is malpractice. Like there's no reason why the Democrats have not done a better job of getting out there. And I'm not talking about Meet the Press. I'm not talking about like political. I am talking about finding people where they are, all the different kinds of platforms and talking to them. Right, Right.

[Lauren Eagan]

Cause it seems like there is an acknowledgment in the party that they need to be more creative, that they need to do better things. But then it's like, okay, well what is that and why are you still on Meet the Press?

[Rebecca Katz]

You know, I work in the Senate. I'm old, okay. I worked in the Senate 20 years ago. And I feel like we are doing the same kind of playbook from 20 years ago that we're doing today.

[Lauren Eagan]

So why do you think this is? So is it just like growing pains? Like it's just going to take some more? I mean, you know, it's the end of June, it's almost July.

[Rebecca Katz]

I think part of it is also we need younger elected officials because I don't think older folks understand how people get their news right. Like there is a real disconnect there and they are, they are not native to it and they do not understand it. Democrats win with New York Times readers. Right. But guess what, there's a whole swath of the electorate, like many that we are missing and we are like, I don't know, sometimes there's like an influencer strategy or this. Like they don't, they don't really get it. Right. They don't understand. Like we need people directly talking about to the voters and we don't have that many.

[Lauren Eagan]

Yeah. Like do you think you have to be native to these platforms or at least like on them like on TikTok on Instagram?

[Rebecca Katz]

I think I would like more of our elected officials to use the platforms that where more Americans are getting their news from. Like do you think how many people in the Senate do you think are like look at YouTube shorts. Let's just take that we're like I mean I know Ruben Gallego is but I don't know how many others are right And I think that's part of the problem too that they don't understand how in this fractured media environment how people get their news.

[Lauren Eagan]

Yeah, well you know Chuck Schumer's still got the flip phone so which is endearing to some but can't get TikTok on that thing. Well Rebecca, thanks for joining us. Come back anytime and really appreciate it.

[Rebecca Katz]

Okay take care. Bye.