Jermaine Hudson (2:38)

He even sent a young lady that was a court reporter clerk back there where I was waiting to go to trial. He sent her back there to talk to me. She said, jermaine, these people is not playing. I don't want to see you get your life thrown away, man. Take them five years. I said, you gonna help me do them? Are you gonna help me do five years?

Jade Abdul Malik (3:00)

When we first heard this, we were shocked that a defense attorney would push their innocent client so hard to a plea. During our reporting, we got a chance to talk with a former Louisiana public defender about this, and what he had to say shifted our perspective. Colin Reingold represented Jermaine in his lawsuit against the state of Louisiana, seeking restitution for false imprisonment. Colin helped Jermaine recover the maximum amount from the state, $400,000.

Colin Reingold (3:28)

I think that as a society generally, and particularly in the Deep south and in New Orleans, which has the highest incarceration rate in the world, we have used incarceration as a crutch and as a way for politicians to score points on the campaign trail without really ever looking at the damage that's done to society and whether or not incarceration is a public safety benefit. Certainly not the way we've been going about it.

Jade Abdul Malik (4:04)

After seeing it with his own eyes, Colin wonders if there's any logic to the system at all.

Colin Reingold (4:11)

The number of times you see just elderly people in prison for things they did when they were 20 makes you really question the wisdom of the money we are spending and the communities and families we're ruining with the current version of our criminal legal system. I'd been saying criminal justice system, but there's not a lot of justice in it the way it's operating in a lot of places in our country.

Jade Abdul Malik (4:36)

Colin wasn't the attorney who represented Jermaine back in 1999 when he was offered the five year prison sentence if he pleaded guilty. For people charged with serious crimes in Louisiana, the consequences of going to trial can be huge, because if a jury finds you guilty, the punishment is often devastating. Sometimes decades, sometimes the rest of your life. The vast majority of cases never make it to trial at all. Instead, they end with a plea deal. But what if, like Jermaine, you're accused of a crime you didn't commit? Do you take the plea? We asked Colin about this.

Colin Reingold (5:16)

In Jermaine's case, he has the choice of do you stand by your values of maintaining your innocence, or do you take the opportunity? After 20 years, you're handed a Ticket out. You get a conviction, but you get your freedom. I've never spent a night in jail or prison, but I spent a lot of time visiting people in both. And I. I can't imagine the clients I have who are willing to do more time because they're steadfast in maintaining their innocence have a strength that I can't imagine because I wouldn't want to spend any. A single extra night in prison, especially not Angola. So anyone who makes that trade off, I 100% understand. But when I had clients who wanted to go to trial because they were innocent, LA has such harsh sentencing laws that my job as a lawyer is to say, look, I'll take you to trial. I'll do a pretty decent job. I think we have a strategy, but if we lose, you're looking at often 20 years, 30, 40, sometimes life, 99 years. And they're offering you. You know, sometimes it was reasonable, sometimes it wasn't, but it was always less than what I could be fairly certain the judge was gonna give them if they go to trial and lose.

Jade Abdul Malik (6:41)

So lawyers like Colin who genuinely care about their clients are sometimes in the position of urging them to make a really hard choice.

Colin Reingold (6:50)

So you're arrested on murder that you say you didn't do, and we can't slam dunk. Prove you're innocent, and the jury could go either way. Do you pick the possibility of life in prison or guaranteed what you'll get is 20, and maybe you'll get out in 15 if you do well and get parole. How does a person make a choice like that?

Jade Abdul Malik (7:11)

We're talking 20 whole years, maybe 15 with good behavior. That's still a massive chunk of someone's life. But compared to life in prison, especially Angola, it can feel like the only option. Collins says this dynamic creates something that many defense attorneys know all too well, a kind of impossible calculation.

Colin Reingold (7:35)

I mean, my job as a lawyer is to try to help them, but I know I have clients who probably didn't do what they were charged with, or certainly not, or certainly there was more to it than the state was alleging, but took a this kind of devil's bargain because they had seen what happened to friends, other people who were in jail with them awaiting trial, who said that they were going to go to trial and prove their innocence, and then off they go to Angola for the rest of their life. And you see that happen enough times, you think, I know I didn't do it, but I also don't want to go to Angola for the rest of my life. So maybe I'll just go to Angola for 10 years and I can make it, and then I'll come back and see my mom and dad and my brother and sister again, or my kids. So many people have little kids when they're arrested, and do they want to see them graduate middle school, high school? Those are the markers we use when we're talking to people about making these hard choices. And oftentimes my job is to say it's probably the smart thing to do to take it, even if I believe them that they didn't do it.

Jade Abdul Malik (8:38)

If Jermaine had taken that guilty plea back in 99, he would have likely served five years instead of 22. But he took the chance of going to trial because he wasn't going to confess to a crime he didn't commit. His wife, Kristin, says that this decision is what convinced her of Jermaine's innocence. Louisiana's darker past must reckon with a more hopeful and just future. Find out how things shake out in the next episode of Burden of Guilt. Subscribe to Season 2 of Burden of Guilt so you don't miss any of our bonus content. And check out our Instagram glasspodcast to

TextNow Advertiser (9:12)

go behind the scenes Locked in Monthly Wireless plans were built for another era TextNow is app first free talking text, real 5G coverage and service. You switch up in an instant. Download TextNow and connect in minutes.

TextNow Announcer (9:29)

Other wireless carriers tell you when to pay. TextNow asks what do you need? It's app first phone service without commitments, credit checks or carrier attitude. Built for people who stopped asking for permission. Download today.

Brain Health PSA Speaker (9:44)

What's up foos?

Juso (WWE Wrestler) (9:45)

Main event J uso here from the wwe when it's just me between matches, it's day one ish. And that means it's Chumba time. With hundreds of casino style games and new titles arriving weekly, there's always something fresh to try at Chumba Casino. The daily boost make it even more fun and have me bout to get em all during my downtime. Ready for a fun way to chill out and enjoy a few minutes for yourself? Let's Chumba.

Chumba Casino Promoter / Kat (Cosentyx Testimonial) (10:08)

No purchase necessary. VGW Group voidware Prohibited by Law CTS CS21 Sponsored by Chumba Casino we all

Brain Health PSA Speaker (10:15)

take good care of the things that matter. Our homes, our pets, our cars. Are you doing the same for your brain? Acting early to protect brain health may help reduce the risk of dementia from conditions like Alzheimer's disease. Studies have found that up to 45% of dementia cases may be prevented or delayed. By managing risk factors, you can change make brain health a priority? Ask your doctor about your risk factors and for a cognitive assessment.

Chumba Casino Promoter / Kat (Cosentyx Testimonial) (10:42)

Learn more@brainhealthmatters.com want to earn extra income for your business? Amazon Hub Delivery is looking for ambitious business owners to assist with local deliveries. When you become a partner, you and your staff will deliver packages to customers in your area on a schedule that works for you. With each package delivered, you'll gain extra income and exposure for your business. Plus, Amazon Hub Delivery makes it easy to get started. There's no upfront costs, delivery experience or long term contracts required. Required. Sign up to learn more@Amazon.com hubdelivery that's Amazon.com hub delivery this is an I heart podcast.

TextNow Announcer (11:17)

Guaranteed human.