Full Circle | EP 8 | Season 2

Summary

Burden of Guilt S2 EP8: “Full Circle” (April 1, 2026) – Detailed Summary

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Main Theme & Episode Purpose

The final episode of Season 2, "Full Circle," culminates the journey of Jermaine Hudson and Bobby Gumpright, two men bound by a lie and the justice system of Louisiana. Host Nancy Glass brings their story to a deeply personal close—reflecting on redemption, the capacity for forgiveness, and the toxic historical cycles that still shape modern incarceration. The episode revisits Angola Prison, captures Jermaine’s return as a free man, and explores how two former adversaries forged an unlikely but profound friendship rooted in accountability and forgiveness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Revisiting Angola: The Weight of History ([02:59]–[12:11])

• Jermaine’s Return: Jermaine, after his exoneration in 2021, returns to the grounds of Angola Prison for the first time during the annual Angola Prison Rodeo—an emotionally charged event for him and those still incarcerated.
  • Quote: “I remember this road like it was yesterday... I got goosebumps in my arms. It brings back a lot of memories coming up this road.” — Jermaine Hudson ([06:02])
• Life Inside Angola: Jermaine recalls the grueling labor forced on inmates, reflecting on cutting grass in 98–100 degree heat and “slave-like” conditions.
  • Quote: “They take them, use them, work them in 110 degree heat, slaving them and throw them away.” — Jermaine Hudson ([10:24])
• The Angola Rodeo: Both celebrated by some inmates as a rare moment of normalcy and condemned by outsiders as exploitative—the rodeo is a spectacle where inmates can earn money and briefly socialize outside the rigid confines of incarceration.

The Legacy of Slavery and the Economics of Incarceration ([15:59]–[19:43])

• Historical Parallel: The episode contextualizes Louisiana’s carceral practices within the history of slavery and post-slavery convict leasing—linking today's labor to Jim Crow-era exploitation.
  • Expert commentary from Dr. Thomas Haiello and Samantha Kennedy contextualizes how financial incentives perpetuate systemic injustice.
  • Quote (Dr. Thomas Haiello): “That became known as convict lease and it was horrible... The death rate in convict lease was about 25%…” ([17:22])
  • Quote (Samantha Kennedy): “There's so much money in bodies. People are a commodity. That has not changed.” ([18:56])

Jermaine’s Advocacy: Fighting for Others ([19:43]–[21:20])

• Legislative Fight: Despite setbacks, Jermaine continues challenging split-jury convictions in Louisiana legislature, motivated by the brothers he left behind.
  • Quote: “They need a voice... Even if I don’t win, even if it fails, at least they can say, he fought for us. He didn’t get out of here and just leave us.” — Jermaine Hudson ([21:04])

Radical Forgiveness: Bobby’s Redemption and The Meeting of Two Families ([21:20]–[27:29])

• Bobby’s Visit: Bobby, the man whose false testimony led to Jermaine’s conviction, is welcomed into Jermaine’s home by Kristen (Jermaine’s wife), setting the tone for true forgiveness beyond mere words.
  • Quote (Bobby): “She walked over and she grabbed me, like, wrapped me up in her arms, and I just started sobbing. She just said, it's over now. You don't have to cry anymore.” ([21:37])
• Studio Reflection: In a joint interview, Jermaine and Bobby speak candidly about their unlikely friendship and the power of forgiveness:
  • Quote (Jermaine): “Because when you have a heart and you’re able to sit next to the person, the man that sent you to prison, and to have a bond, a relationship, it gives me a sense of peace.” ([23:41])
  • Quote (Bobby): “Only if God gave me the strength to, but in my own power as a very, very flawed individual? Absolutely not.” ([25:03])
  • Quote (Bobby): “The difference is I did a bad thing, not that I'm a bad person. There's a difference.” ([25:33])
  • Quote (Bobby): “It's a reminder of the greatest forgiveness I've ever received.” ([27:24])
  • Quote (Jermaine): “You're looking at forgiveness. You're looking at a friendship that has been formed. You're looking at life that has been changed. And I pray we can change others.” ([26:39])
• Honest Remorse: Jermaine describes feeling Bobby’s remorse as genuine, particularly during the emotional moment of the compensation hearing.
  • Quote (Jermaine): “I actually went to court and I seen him on the Zoom video, and it was something in my heart that captured me when I seen him crying...” ([27:56])

New Beginnings: Sobriety, Family, and Joy ([29:18]–[31:01])

• Bobby’s Life Changes: Now sober and helping others in recovery, Bobby has built a new life, married Leslie, and feels supported by Jermaine, who cheers him on as a true friend.
  • Quote (Bobby): “I'm so grateful that I have her with me during this whole process.” ([30:02])
  • Quote (Bobby): “He treats my wife like a sister and we're truly blessed.” ([30:19])

Coming Full Circle: Reckoning with the Past, Embracing the Present ([34:48]–[40:58])

• The Church Reunion: Bobby returns to the church that once gave him shelter, witnessing the impact of past kindness and demonstrating his transformation to Pastor Jermaine Tezeno and the congregation.
  • Quote (Bobby): “It's one of the best things I was ever able to do since Jermaine, to go back and show them what they had done for me, just that little bit of kindness…” ([37:43])
• Jermaine’s Present Life: Jermaine, now a grandfather, finds joy in ordinary moments—he’s focused on the future, not letting the past dictate his identity.
  • Quote (Jermaine): “I don't have time to be dwelling on the yesterday or what happened. I don't have time for that. That's a chapter in my life.” ([38:30])
  • Quote (Jermaine on his grandson): “That's my little heart right there.” ([38:55])
• Survival and Perspective: Jermaine frames his survival as overcoming a storm, refusing to be trapped by loss.
  • Quote (Jermaine): “You survived that storm, you know. No, it wasn’t no easy ride, but you survived that storm and you just took off.” ([40:58])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Forgiveness & Friendship:
  • “I'm really built different. My heart is built different. My mindset is built different. And I really thrive off of just calling him. How you doing, man? Is everything okay?” — Jermaine Hudson ([03:32])
• Human Cost of Incarceration:
  • “This place has destroyed so many lives. So many of these guys are still buried on this plantation.” — Jermaine Hudson ([11:24])
• Guilt vs. Shame:
  • “Guilt is a powerful motivator… but what I don't feel anymore is shame. The difference is I did a bad thing. Not that I'm a bad person.” — Bobby Gumpright ([25:33])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Jermaine returns to Angola: [05:32]–[08:43]
• Exploring Angola’s plantation prison history: [10:00]–[19:43]
• Jermaine on advocacy work: [19:43]–[21:20]
• Bobby welcomed by Jermaine’s family: [21:20]–[22:30]
• Forgiveness, remorse, and growth: [23:21]–[28:57]
• Bobby’s new life and Jermaine’s role: [29:18]–[30:19]
• Bobby’s church homecoming: [34:48]–[38:13]
• Jermaine’s present and perspective: [38:30]–[40:58]

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Episode Takeaways

• Redemption is Possible: The friendship between Jermaine and Bobby demonstrates the power of radical forgiveness, even after decades of harm.
• History Looms Large: Louisiana’s justice system and Angola Prison remain haunted by their origins, and the financial motives behind incarceration have perpetuated cycles of injustice.
• Advocacy Continues: Jermaine stands determined to fight for those still behind bars under unconstitutional circumstances.
• Moving Forward: Both men are, in their own way, building lives defined not by their past mistakes and traumas, but by hope, authentic human connection, and the willingness to help others move forward as well.

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This summary captures the essential narrative, deep insights, and emotional milestones from the Season 2 finale, providing both a thorough overview and access points for listeners seeking key themes and moments.

Transcript

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

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[Nancy Glass]

Jermaine Hudson and Bobby Gumpride's story is one of a kind. It says a lot about the state of Louisiana and the way the justice system works there. But at its core, it's a story about redemption, about two men whose lives were derailed by one lie, and about Jermaine's extraordinary choice to forgive Bobby. I want to sort of reflect on what we're doing here right now. You two sitting next to each other telling the story. How does that feel to you?

[Jermaine Hudson]

Most people go through these experiences with bitterness in their heart. They probably wouldn't even want to be around Bobby. They probably would really despise him for the rest of their life. But I'm built different. I am really built different. My heart is built different. My mindset is built different. And I really thrive off of just calling him. How you doing, man? Is everything okay?

[Nancy Glass]

Most people would not be able to do this. Not only forgive the person who wrongfully put you in prison, but but befriend them. And as I worked on the story and talked to Bobby and Jermaine, I needed to ask Bobby one simple question. Do you think if the shoe was on the other foot, this would have been the outcome? Do you think you would have been able to forgive somebody who put you in prison and who took away part of your life? I'm Nancy Glass. This is the final episode of season two of Burden of Guilt, episode eight, Full Circle. They say you can't go back, but sometimes you have to. In October of 2025, our team took a trip to Angola. Jermaine agreed to join us. He hadn't stepped foot on those prison grounds since his exoneration in 2021. So our team started the drive from New Orleans to the prison.

[Jermaine Hudson]

A lot of the fellows been asking me when I'm coming back. I wasn't really ready to face it at that moment because it was still fresh in my system and I didn't want to look at that place. Now is the time for me to go pay my respect, pay my visit to the brothers that I grew up with, share a few laughs with them, and give them some hope.

[Nancy Glass]

For most of the ride, Tremaine sat quietly home, holding his wife Kristen's hand.

[Jermaine Hudson]

I remember this road like it was yesterday, you know, I got goosebumps in my arms. It brings back a lot of memories coming up this road.

[Nancy Glass]

As we got closer to the prison, those memories of what Jermaine endured came rushing back. It started when he saw the fields where inmates are forced to work.

[Jermaine Hudson]

This road right here, we used to get out here with weed eaters and just cut all this grass on the side in like 98, 100 degree heat. It wasn't right.

[Nancy Glass]

The weekend we went to Angola was a special occasion. The annual Angola Prison Rodeo. If you haven't heard of it before, this rodeo is a distinctly Louisiana phenomenon. Every year, Angola sells tickets to the public and puts on a true rodeo. The crowd was overwhelming. There was a jam packed stadium with thousands of people walking around, people on horseback with flags. Our team saw bull riding, wild horse racing, and rodeo poker. And there was an enormous hobby craft market where you could buy handmade crafts.

[Jermaine Hudson]

They build rocking chairs, they do bedroom sets, dresser sets, they make belts, jewelry. You know, they're very creative.

[Nancy Glass]

The aromas from different food stalls wafted through the crowd. So if you were a fan of crawfish etouffee, you were in luck. But everyone performing and everyone selling their crafts is an inmate. In Angola, inmates get to keep money they earn from selling their crafts, but the rest of the profits are used by the prison to support programs. The rodeo is a complicated thing. Some on the outside think it's cruel and exploits inmates. They're not professionals. They risk serious injury for prize money that's relatively small. But for many of the inmates, it's the highlight of the year. It's a fleeting moment of normalcy. Inmates with demonstrated good behavior are offered the opportunity to walk the rodeo grounds. They can sit among their family and friends, share a meal, and feel like they're free in society for just a moment.

[Jermaine Hudson]

A lot of prisoners love it. They really prepared for that moment. That's where a lot of guys make their money at. They love it because they get a chance to go out, be out for a while and see people from on outside.

[Nancy Glass]

Now Jermaine was returning as a free man. He didn't have to wear an orange shirt and return to a cell at the end of the day.

[Jermaine Hudson]

The difference is I'm on the outside looking in now I'm not on the inside looking out.

[Nancy Glass]

One of Jermaine's biggest motivations for attending the rodeo now was to visit the men he considered his brothers, the men he spent decades with who were still there.

[Jermaine Hudson]

There's a time for me to give him some Hope.

[Nancy Glass]

As he walked the rodeo grounds, people began recognizing Jermaine. One by one, inmates would do a double take and then come up and embrace him.

[Jermaine Hudson]

You over here.

[Nancy Glass]

What up, man?

[Jermaine Hudson]

I'm wondering, man.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

I've been looking all day, man. What's up, man?

[Jermaine Hudson]

Been all right, bro? Yeah, I've been chilling, trying to make the best out of bad situations.

[Nancy Glass]

It was emotional for Jermaine and for the men he hadn't seen seen in years.

[Jermaine Hudson]

Just waiting, man.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

March 26th.

[Nancy Glass]

How you doing?

[Jermaine Hudson]

I'm good. I know, I know.

[Nancy Glass]

Angola has a way of reminding you where you are. This is a prison built on a plantation. A place where the past hasn't really passed. When Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years, he had no idea that hard labor was an understatement. Millions of dollars are earned off the backs of the men incarcerated.

[Jermaine Hudson]

They take them, use them, work them in 110 degree heat, slaving them and throw them away.

[Nancy Glass]

They work in fields?

[Jermaine Hudson]

Yeah.

[Nancy Glass]

Outside?

[Jermaine Hudson]

Yeah.

[Nancy Glass]

Doing what?

[Jermaine Hudson]

Picking vegetables.

[Nancy Glass]

They pick crops?

[Jermaine Hudson]

Yeah. They pick all their vegetables. And you got a security guard at the front of the line riding a horse. And you got a security guard at the back of the line riding a horse. But these guys are out there with jeans on, long sleeve shirts, with a tool on their shoulders, and they walking these guys 1 and 2 miles in 100 degree heat. It's pure hell

[Nancy Glass]

on the farm line. There's no consideration for anyone's disabilities or limitations. This is usually where the men go once they enter the prison.

[Jermaine Hudson]

This place has destroyed so many lives. So many of these guys are still buried on this plantation.

[Nancy Glass]

After spending the day at the prison grounds with Jermaine, everyone drove back to New Orleans in silence. To understand what Jermaine experienced at Angola, we spoke with Gwen Filosa, a former criminal justice reporter for the Times Picayune. She visited the prison while Jermaine was incarcerated there. The first time she drove onto the grounds of Angola, she says the scene felt almost impossible to process. Being at Angola felt like stepping into another century. When you pull up, it's a former plantation.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

You drive in and you go through

[Nancy Glass]

checkpoint, you see a guy with a long gun cocked. He's sitting on a horse. It's on a horse holding the long gun. And then you see a line of prisoners and they are walking either with

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

shovel or a hoe over their neck

[Nancy Glass]

and they're walking out to work the fields. I felt like I was on Mars.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

Support for the show comes from public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompts. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures this

[Martha Stewart]

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[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

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[Nancy Glass]

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[Nancy Glass]

when reporter Gwen Filosa drove into Angola, she felt like she was on another planet. To understand why, we have to go back, way back to the Louisiana of 1865. After the Civil War, Louisiana needed to find a way to reinvent cheap labor to work on plantations. How could they recapture the black men who were freed? After slavery was abolished, the state devised a scheme to create laws that would make minor or made up offenses felonies.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

To get them into prison, you have to figure out ways that they are criminals. The most common of these laws was for vagrancy, which just meant not having a job. When vagrancy was made a felony, it

[Nancy Glass]

took away all the leverage that former slaves had. That's Dr. Thomas Haiello, an Africana studies professor at Valdosta State University in Georgia and the author of Jim Crow's Last Stand. He told us that once prisons had men sentenced for minor or even non existent infractions, they would rent them out to plantation owners across the state. It was a boon for the state coffers and a source of really cheap labor for the men who could no longer legally own slaves.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

That became known as convict lease and it was horrible.

[Nancy Glass]

During that time, those men worked from sunup to sundown, chained, beaten, starved and entirely disposable.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

The death rate in convict lease was about 25%, which means if you did get caught for vagrancy for standing in the wrong place at the wrong time, you had a one in four chance of that becoming the death penalty.

[Nancy Glass]

In the early 1900s, the state outlawed convict leasing. They could no longer be rented out. But the farm work didn't stop. The state used their inmate population to work 3,000 acres of Angola's land to raise livestock, vegetables and cotton, to name a few. Today, inmates get paid as low as 4 cents an hour for this labor. Some of the food is kept by the prison to feed the population. But plenty of it goes on the open market, earning money for the state. You might be wondering how this is connected to Jermaine's story. Well, the state has a financial incentive to keep this cheap labor. That could be one reason why Louisiana lawmakers opposed the bill Jermaine and Bobby advocated for, because that would mean vacating nearly a thousand convictions. People they're making money off of. The executive director of the Promise of Justice Initiative, Samantha Kennedy, sees how history repeats itself at Angola over a century later.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

There's so much money in bodies, so much money in bodies. People are a commodity that has not changed.

[Nancy Glass]

It looks different. It's legitimized by the system.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

And without a doubt, those institutions are recreating, enacting and embodying highly dehumanizing racist practices. And it's a tremendous assault to the idea that people in Louisiana belong to the rest of the country, that we have the same rights that black people

[Nancy Glass]

have the same rights that black people

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

deserve autonomy, freedom, joy and family like everybody else.

[Nancy Glass]

All of this weighs on the men incarcerated here. It weighed on Jermaine during his 22 years. And it's the thing that motivates Jermaine to continue fighting for legislation to overturn split jury convictions. He knows the guys who are still suffering at Angola because of a now unconstitutional verdict. Jermaine, what has driven you to keep going back to advocate for people?

[Jermaine Hudson]

I have guys that I've actually formed a brotherhood relationship with. And to know that there are guys that's in the same situation that I was in and going through the same thing I was going through, it just motivated me to fight for them.

[Nancy Glass]

Even though the last attempt failed, Jermaine is not deterred. He's going back to testify in front of the Louisiana Legislature next month because an estimated 1500 other people are still incarcerated in Louisiana prisons after split verdicts.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

Originally, when we started this journey, we had identified 1500. Between now and then, people have died

[Nancy Glass]

or we've resolved cases, but at this point, we think it's between 800 and 1,000.

[Jermaine Hudson]

They need a voice. They need somebody to stand up and be like, even if I don't win, even if it fails, at least they can say, he fought for us. He didn't get out of here and just leave us. He didn't get out of here and just say, I'm done with that.

[Nancy Glass]

About a year ago, Jermaine invited Bobby to his home in Texas. And even though Bobby accepted the invite, he was a nervous wreck. He was going to face the family Jermaine was taken away from for 22 years. Jermaine's wife, Kristen, was the first person who approached him.

[Bobby Gumpride]

I was standing in the kitchen and I still had not sat down. I didn't feel comfortable. I didn't know what to do with my hands. Normally, I'm pretty confident in situations like that. I'm not normally somebody who doesn't know what to do, say or do. But in that instance, I had no clue what to do with myself. She walked over and she grabbed me, like, wrapped me up in her arms, and I just started sobbing. She just said, it's over now. You don't have to cry anymore. And when she said that, I knew what her heart was, and I knew that it was exactly what Jermaine's heart was, because it was almost the same exact thing that Jermaine had said to me when we met.

[Nancy Glass]

Here's Kristen. The embrace was natural. It's just who we are. Like, we just have loving hearts.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

So it was no ill feeling.

[Nancy Glass]

Like, again, we're just so easy to be able to forgive him. Jermaine didn't just say the words, I forgive you. He invited Bobby into his home and set an example of forgiveness for the rest of the family. As we wrapped up this series, I invited Jermaine and Bobby to come to our studio in Philadelphia. I wanted to sit down with them and talk about their unlikely friendship. I want to sort of reflect on what we're doing here right now, you two sitting next to each other telling the story. How does that feel to you?

[Jermaine Hudson]

It's refreshing. It's refreshing for me because I know what it's doing.

[Nancy Glass]

Jermaine, it's really hard to imagine how you're able to form this friendship and not have resentment. And can you explain this?

[Jermaine Hudson]

Because when you have a heart and you're able to sit next to the person, the man that sent you to prison, and to have a bond, a relationship, it gives me a sense of peace. It gives me peace. I can go to sleep at night knowing that he did the right thing, even though it took 22 years. But I give him way more credit for even coming forward to even have me on his heart to say, I have to undo this.

[Nancy Glass]

As we were reporting this story, there was one question I kept thinking about. Could I forgive someone who had done this to me, who had taken away 22 years of my life for a crime that never happened? I don't think I could. I asked Bobby the same question. Do you think if the shoe was on the other foot, this would have been the outcome. Do you think you would have been able to forgive somebody who put you in prison and who took away part of your life?

[Bobby Gumpride]

Only if God gave me the strength to, but in my own power as a very, very flawed individual? Absolutely not.

[Nancy Glass]

It's interesting because you, of course, punished yourself for years and years and years because of what you did. So is that still with you? Do you still feel guilty about those things?

[Bobby Gumpride]

When I was approached with a lineup and I picked him out of the lineup, I was doing it out of. Out of selfish motives, not because it had actually happened. So I guess I don't know what feeling was really connected to that other than selfishness. Guilt is a powerful motivator, and guilt is an emotion that, as humans, I believe we need. And I do still feel guilt. What I don't feel anymore is shame. The difference is I did a bad thing. Not that I'm a bad person. There's a difference. And it took me a long time to understand that difference and not live in the shame. But, of course, I'm still guilty of what I did, and it's still something that I think about constantly.

[Nancy Glass]

Jermaine, what does the friendship mean to you?

[Jermaine Hudson]

It means a lot to me because it shows my growth. It also shows the type of man that I've grown to be. You're looking at forgiveness. You're looking at a friendship that has been formed. You're looking at life that has been changed. And I pray we can change others. I pray to whoever, you know, the listeners, the own listeners that's listening, I pray that they can forgive. It ain't got to be this situation. It ain't gotta be a situation like this.

[Nancy Glass]

Do you ever feel that your relationship with Jermaine is a reminder of the worst mistake you ever made?

[Bobby Gumpride]

It's a reminder of the greatest forgiveness I've ever received.

[Nancy Glass]

Bobby sees it as a miracle, a chance to finally live a normal life. You healed because of Jermaine?

[Bobby Gumpride]

Absolutely.

[Nancy Glass]

Part of the reason Jermaine was inclined to forgive Bobby was because he saw something in him that is pretty uncommon genuine remorse. It started the moment Bobby testified at Jermaine's compensation hearing.

[Jermaine Hudson]

I actually went to court and I seen him on the Zoom video, and it was something in my heart that captured me when I seen him crying, because looking at him, I automatically felt his remorse. I automatically felt how genuine he was, because most people don't cry like that. He couldn't even talk, he was crying so hard. Most people don't do that. I felt like I was going to be the one to help him just as much as he was going to help me get my life back on track.

[Nancy Glass]

At this point in our interview, we saw Bobby go back to that place. Bobby, what brings up such emotion in a such you?

[Bobby Gumpride]

Just words you never thought you would hear, right? Like the man that I put in prison for 22 years wrongfully wanted to help me get my life back on track. I just want to be half the man that he is.

[Nancy Glass]

Bobby's been sober for nearly five years. He works at a rehab facility and says he's a new man. Bobby sent us a text. It was a video taken in a crowded restaurant and Bobby was on one knee. After everything he went through, every stride he made, he was now asking for someone to build a future with him.

[Bobby Gumpride]

I've never been in a healthy relationship in my entire life, even with myself. So we're just super grateful to have each other and to be on this journey together.

[Nancy Glass]

He married his wife Leslie in June of 2025. It's afforded Bobby a joy he thought he never would have experienced.

[Bobby Gumpride]

Oh, we're so in love. We're so in love. I'm so grateful that I have her with me during this whole process.

[Nancy Glass]

Best of all, his friend Jermaine has been on the sidelines cheering him on.

[Bobby Gumpride]

I've got a guy like Jermaine who, like, she'll. She posted a picture on our Instagram of us. We were at a date night at the movies and Jermaine jumped in there. He said my favorite couple on the comments and he said, we love you all. He'll call her and just talk with her and, and encourage her and he'll say, what's up queen? You know, he treats my wife like a sister and we're truly blessed.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

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[Martha Stewart]

this is Martha Stewart from the Martha Stewart Podcast Ever wonder how to make hosting look effortless? Here's a secret Getting ahead of the Mess with New Reynolds Kitchens Countertop Prep Paper Just lightly wet the counter beforehand so the paper grips and stays in place. Then lay down the Reynolds Kitchen's countertop prep paper so drips and spills stay on the paper, not all over your kitchen counter. You can roll out dough, prep a party spread or cook alongside family when you're done. Cleanup is as simple as lifting the paper and revealing that clean counter underneath. Effortless. You can use it for cooking and baking, prep and even crafting, especially when you need extra working space. Because when the mess is already handled, you can focus on what matters the food, the people and the moment. It may look effortless, but now you know. It's Reynolds Kitchens Countertop Prep Paper. Take a tip from me. Wet it, set it, prep it. Done. Make it easy. Make it with Reynolds Kitchens Countertop Prep Paper Available now in the Reynolds Wrap aisle in Walmart.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

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[Nancy Glass]

At the beginning of this series, you heard about Bobby Gumprite the day he was high and homeless and stumbled into a church in Eunice, Louisiana. He chose that church because of the pastor's first name, Jermaine. Bobby felt like it was a sign. Two years later, Pastor Jermaine Tezeno was doing his regular Sunday morning routine, opening the church doors and preparing for his congregation to fill the pews at Greater True Light Baptist Church. When the doors opened, the usual crowd stepped into the church. But then a stranger appeared.

[Bobby Gumpride]

I wore my best suit and I was cleanly shaven and smelled good. And I walked in and saw Pastor Tesano standing at the back. I went up and shook his hand and I said, hi, Pastor.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

I didn't recognize him at all. To me, he looked like a politician. He was this white guy with a suit, clean. And I shook his hand and he said, pastor, my name is Bobby. Can I share a testimony? In my mind was this politician is trying to come and sell whatever.

[Bobby Gumpride]

And he looked at me kind of sideways and he was like, oh, if there's time.

[Nancy Glass]

At the end of the service, Bobby walked to the front of the church and that's when the past walked in with him.

[Bobby Gumpride]

There's a story in the Bible about 10 lepers being healed by Jesus and how only one came back to present himself as healed.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

He said, I came to this church. I was homeless, I was on drugs and this and that. And he said, God has delivered me.

[Nancy Glass]

Bobby walked through the congregation and pointed

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

to Pastor Tezeno and he said to the congregation, your pastor gave me a place to stay. Your pastor gave me food to eat something in.

[Nancy Glass]

Pastor Tezeno shifted. Suddenly, memories of a desperate and helpless man shuffling into his Sunday service years ago came flooding back.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

And when he started saying that, I stood up.

[Nancy Glass]

He remembered helping Bobby get back on his feet for one night, just for him to disappear. The next morning.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

I said, no, it can't be. This can't be. This can't be the same guy. I was so overwhelmed with joy. It was tears of joy. And we embraced each other.

[Bobby Gumpride]

It's one of the best things I was ever able to do since Jermaine to Go back and show them what they had done for me, just that little bit of kindness that they had shown me.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

He is an inspiration to me and

[Bobby Gumpride]

all of us because all of us

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

can say we saw him down, but now we see him up.

[Bobby Gumpride]

I go there every couple months now and say hi, and I feel like I'm part of their family when I go into that church. There's just some wonderful, wonderful people.

[Nancy Glass]

Returning to this church was a full circle moment for Bobby, a way to reckon with who he once was. Jermaine says he doesn't like to live in the past. Maybe that's what helped him survive those two decades in one of America's harshest prisons.

[Jermaine Hudson]

I don't have time to be dwelling on the yesterday or what happened. I don't have time for that. That's a chapter in my life.

[Nancy Glass]

The truth is, Jermaine lost those years. He can't go back in time to continue raising his daughter, Jermia. Jermia is now a young woman. In 2025, she had a baby boy of her own.

[Jermaine Hudson]

He's adorable and he's the light of the house, honestly. He brings that joy to, to our house just to see his smile. That's my little heart right there.

[Nancy Glass]

When his grandson laughs in the living room, Jermaine gets something he thought he'd lost forever. A chance to be present.

[Jermaine Hudson]

You know, he look at me as da, da, too. You know, he be saying, da, da, da, da. So I be trying to correct him. Pa, pa, pa, pa.

[Nancy Glass]

Jermaine's life today is downright suburban. It's a long way from the Fisher projects. He owns a home where he greets his neighbors on their front lawns. Sometimes when we call him, he's at the gym with Kristen, where he's on the floor playing with his grandbaby. He recently went home from Mardi Gras, posting photos of himself and his oldest friends during the parade. It's obvious that Jermaine is thriving, not because he's trying to make up for lost time, but because he finally has time to live. Sometimes he still can't believe he made it. Do you remember the lowest point when you were incarcerated?

[Jermaine Hudson]

Every day was the lowest point because you don't know when it's going to end. My worst fear was dying in that place.

[Nancy Glass]

Their friendship is something you really have to admire. I wish they had met under different circumstances because it makes me feel terrible that Jermaine lost 22 years of his life. But when you see this friendship, it makes you challenge your own ideas of what's possible with forgiveness? What's possible with redemption. It also shows what humanity is capable of. Okay, Jermaine, I know you don't like to dwell on the past. I can't blame you. And I don't mean to be all philosophical about this, but when you put your head on the pillow at night, what do you think to yourself?

[Jermaine Hudson]

You survived that storm, you know. No, it wasn't no easy ride, but you survived that storm and you just took off.

[Nancy Glass]

Thank you for listening. If you're enjoying Burden of Guilt, subscribe rate and review the series with five stars. Yay. It helps other people find our show. So are you curious about what the people involved in this look like? Do you want to hear bonus content? Just check out our Instagram account Las Podcasts, where we recap each episode with show notes that include people, places, and even court records. You can reach out to the Burden of guilt [e-mail] that's burdenofgiltpodmail.com Burden of Guilt is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass and Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The series is executive produced and hosted by me, Nancy Glass, produced by Carrie Hartman, also produced by Ben Federman and Andrea Gunning. Our story editor is Monique Laborde. This episode was written and associate produced by Jade Abdul Malik. Our production manager is Kristen Melchuri. Our I Heart team is Ally Perry and Jessica Kreinczik. Audio editing by Zach Prout Mixed and mastered by Matt Del Vecchio. The Burden of Guilt theme is composed by Oliver Baines Music Library provided by Mib Music and we want to give our special thanks to Jermaine Hudson and Bobby Gumpright. For more podcasts from iHeart visitors, the iHeartRadio app, or Apple Podcasts. To follow the work of the Promise of Justice initiative, go to promiseofjustice.org on Instagram and Twitter usticespromise and on Facebook and Blue sky at Promise of Justice.

[Martha Stewart]

Ever wonder how to make hosting look effortless? Here's a secret Getting ahead of the mess with new Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper. Just lightly wet the counter beforehand so the paper grips and stays in place. Then lay down the Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper so drips and spills stay on the paper, not all over your kitchen counter. You can roll out dough, prep a party spread or cook alongside family when you're done. Cleanup is as simple as lifting the paper and revealing that clean counter underneath. Effortless. You can use it for cooking and baking prep and even crafting, especially when you need extra working space. Because when the mess is already handled, you can focus on what matters the food, the people, and the moment. It may look effortless, but now you know. It's Reynolds Kitchens Countertop Prep paper. Take a tip from me. Wet it, set it, prep it. Done. Make it easy. Make it with Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper, available now in the Reynolds wrap aisle in Walmart.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

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[Nancy Glass]

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[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

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