Introducing: Betrayal: Weekly EP 20 - Carmen Rita Wong

Summary

Podcast Episode Summary: "Introducing: Betrayal: Weekly EP 20 - Carmen Rita Wong"

Introduction

In the twentieth episode of "Betrayal Weekly," hosted by Nancy Glass and produced by iHeartPodcasts and Glass Podcasts, listeners are introduced to Carmen Rita Wong—a woman whose life has been profoundly shaped by family secrets and revelations. This episode delves deep into Carmen's journey of uncovering the truth about her biological father, challenging long-held beliefs, and redefining her identity amidst betrayal and loss.

Carmen's Early Life and Cultural Identity

Carmen Rita Wong was raised in Harlem, New York, during the vibrant 1970s. Her mother, Lupe, and grandmother, May Abuela, both Dominican immigrants, worked as seamstresses for the renowned designer Oscar de la Renta. Carmen fondly recalls the rich cultural tapestry of her neighborhood, filled with Dominican and Puerto Rican communities, colorful exchanges, and a sense of belonging despite economic hardships.

“The neighborhood we lived in was mostly Dominican immigrants, Puerto Rican basically, of all colors. So for me, going to daycare, being around my cousins lived across the street, my grandfather's cleaners was on the corner and we all just coexisted in a very great supportive way.” (04:08)

Family Dynamics and Early Suspicion

Carmen's parents separated early in her life, leading her to live primarily with her mother while spending weekends with her father, affectionately known as Poppy Wong. Poppy, portrayed as the epitome of cool—complete with a black leather jacket and slick hair—was a significant presence during these weekends. However, a pivotal moment occurred when Carmen and her brother Alex were unexpectedly moved to live with a white man named Marty in New Hampshire. This sudden relocation marked the beginning of Carmen's uneasy relationship with her stepfather and raised questions about her true parentage.

“I wanted her love so bad and she couldn't love me enough to tell me the truth, even before she died.” (03:45)

Revelation of Family Secrets

As Carmen grew older, suspicions about her father's true identity lingered. The turning point came when her biological father, Poppy Wong, was arrested for heroin trafficking, revealing that her and Alex's financial support had secretly come from him. This betrayal shattered the foundation of trust Carmen had in her family.

“I'm 30 years old, and I'm hearing for the first time that my parents, the first people you're supposed to trust in the world...lied to me.” (26:29)

Following her mother's deathbed confession, Carmen confronted Lupe, uncovering the truth that her father was never Marty but Poppy Wong. This revelation forced Carmen to reassess her entire identity and the authenticity of her upbringing.

“Was I Chinese anymore?...if your whole story is a lie, how do you feel authentic as a person?” (27:54)

The Quest for Truth

Determined to uncover the full story, Carmen embarked on a relentless quest to identify her biological father. Despite numerous obstacles, including a lack of cooperation from relatives and dead ends in genealogical research, Carmen's determination never wavered. The tragic diagnosis and subsequent passing of her brother Alex further fueled her resolve to find answers.

“I had to find out who this guy was. My father, my real biological father.” (40:47)

Her persistent efforts finally bore fruit when genetic testing revealed that her biological father was a man from the Canary Islands, someone she had never known. This discovery not only answered a long-standing question but also left Carmen grappling with the emotional weight of learning about a father she never met.

“He lived right up the street, right up the street from when I was a kid in Manhattan...I had to sit down because that's not what it said.” (38:39)

Impact and Personal Growth

The culmination of these revelations led Carmen to a profound understanding of her identity. She recognized that while genetic ties are significant, the essence of who she is was shaped by her upbringing, cultural heritage, and personal experiences. Carmen learned to separate her self-identity from the biological truths, embracing her Dominican-Chinese upbringing as an integral part of who she is.

“How your genes express themselves is only one part of your identity. How you were raised and who were your parents is another part of your identity.” (48:06)

Carmen also chose to use her experiences as a catalyst for change by penning her memoir, "Why Didn't You Tell Me?" This book serves as a testament to her journey, aiming to break cycles of shame and silence surrounding familial betrayals and secrets.

“A big part of it isn't just telling the truth. A big part of it is there's no shame in my mother's story.” (50:34)

Redefining Family and Moving Forward

Through all the turmoil, Carmen redefined what family means to her. She emphasized that family is not solely defined by blood relations but by who consistently shows up and supports one another. Her brother Alex's unwavering support solidified this belief, underscoring the importance of chosen family and emotional bonds over biological ties.

“Through all of this, I've learned to, in many ways, redefine what family is. And for me, family is who shows up.” (48:49)

Carmen's journey illustrates the complex interplay between cultural identity, family loyalty, and personal truth. Her ability to navigate through betrayal and loss, while emerging stronger and more self-aware, offers profound insights into the human spirit's resilience.

Conclusion

"Betrayal Weekly" Episode 20 presents a compelling narrative of Carmen Rita Wong's life, highlighting themes of trust, identity, and the quest for truth. Through her story, listeners are invited to reflect on their own definitions of family and the impact of hidden truths on personal growth. Carmen's experience underscores the importance of authenticity and the courage it takes to confront and embrace one's true self amidst adversity.

Notable Quotes

• “I wanted her love so bad and she couldn't love me enough to tell me the truth, even before she died.” — Carmen Rita Wong (03:45)

• “Was I Chinese anymore?...if your whole story is a lie, how do you feel authentic as a person?” — Carmen Rita Wong (27:54)

• “How your genes express themselves is only one part of your identity. How you were raised and who were your parents is another part of your identity.” — Carmen Rita Wong (48:06)

• “Through all of this, I've learned to, in many ways, redefine what family is. And for me, family is who shows up.” — Carmen Rita Wong (48:49)

Final Thoughts

Carmen Rita Wong's story, as presented in this episode of "Betrayal Weekly," is a poignant exploration of the search for truth and the complexities of familial relationships. It serves as a powerful reminder that understanding one's past is crucial for forging a meaningful and authentic future.

Transcript

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High Five Casino hi, it's Nancy Glass, host of Burden of Guilt. As the year comes to an end, I wanted to share a new series. My Team at Glass Podcast launched this year. Betrayal Weekly Betrayal, our popular podcast, is now a weekly series. It's about the people we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything we thought we knew about them. Every week, Betrayal will share firsthand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Today, I'm sharing the story of a woman named Carmen who questioned her entire identity after receiving a deathbed confession. Like Tracer Raquel, a family secret revealed later in life turned Carmen's life upside down, but that revelation was only the beginning of a long journey to uncover the truth. If you enjoy Betrayal Weekly, please search for it wherever you listen to your podcasts and you'll find all the episodes that have made Betrayal one of the most listened to podcasts of the year. And be sure to subscribe to the show and leave a review. Five star rating goes a long way, so thank you in advance. New episodes of Betrayal Weekly will be dropping in 2025 every Thursday on the iHeart app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you want to listen to episodes of Betrayal one week early and ad free, you can sign up for I Heart True Crime plus EXCL on Apple Podcasts. So here's Carmen's story on Betrayal. Thanks for listening.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

I wanted her love so bad and she couldn't love me enough to tell me the truth, even before she died.

[Andrea Gunning]

I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about the people we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything. Carmen Rita Wong grew up in New York in the 70s. Her earliest memories are of her mom, Lupe. Lupe was glamorous.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

She was always dressed to the nines and the red lipstick. She, along with my grandmother May Abuela, both from the Dominican Republic, were seamstresses for Oscar de la Renta, who was Dominican and employed a lot of the Dominican women immigrants to New York City.

[Andrea Gunning]

Oscar de la Renta was one of the most expensive and exclusive designers in the world. First ladies and movie stars wore his.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

Designs and they dressed up to be seamstresses. My Abuela as well, always in an Oscar suit that she had probably made with her own hands.

[Andrea Gunning]

Carmen was raised in Harlem and she's proud of where she came from.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

The neighborhood we lived in was mostly Dominican immigrants, Puerto Rican basically, of all colors. So for me, going to daycare, being around, my cousins lived across the street, my grandfather's cleaners was on the corner and we all just coexisted in a very great supportive way. Colorful, texture, smells. Just the richness of it all. Not money, but life. It's something that even now I look back on with nostalgia.

[Andrea Gunning]

Carmen's parents were separated. She lived with her mom and spent the weekends with her dad in Chinatown.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

We called him Poppy, Poppy Wong.

[Andrea Gunning]

She thought he was the epitome of cool.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

He was like a Chinese Johnny Cash. That's what he looked like to me, with a black leather jacket and slick black pants. Senec Pompadour.

[Andrea Gunning]

Carmen and her older brother Alex Cherished these weekends with Poppy in his neighborhood.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

He loved to take us to these very fancy Chinese restaurants where his boss would be, like, sitting on a higher level in the restaurant for more important people for the VIPs.

[Andrea Gunning]

She didn't know what her father did for work, but whatever it was, it was important.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

We'd be snaking through the restaurant, and he'd be saying hi to everybody and bring us up and introduce us to his boss and the people and show us off.

[Andrea Gunning]

But in Chinatown, Carmen stood out. She and Alex looked more Dominican than Chinese.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

We got stared at a little bit, but we very much felt like we were Wongs. This is where we belonged.

[Andrea Gunning]

Even though Poppy wasn't around every day, he supported Carmen and Alex financially.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

He would show up with a wad of bills, and he would love to tease my brother and I and say, you know, do you want $100? You want $200? How many dollars you want?

[Andrea Gunning]

When the weekend was over, Poppy would bring the kids back uptown.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

My mother and Poppy were cordial. I think what I saw was my mother smiling and being cordial because she wanted him to support us and help support his children.

[Andrea Gunning]

Their parents separation forged a strong bond between Carmen and her brother Alex.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

Because my mother was working, because Poppy wasn't living with us. And we were shuttled in between people during the day. My big brother was my protector. He was the only constant in my life.

[Andrea Gunning]

They hung out after school watching Godzilla and kung fu movies on the floor of their aunts, cousins, and friends living rooms. But then one day, Carmen and Alex found themselves in an apartment they didn't recognize.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

I remember one day my mother bringing us to a man's apartment. He was a white man. He had a mustache and this big, 70s kind of curly hair and glasses and smoked a pipe and, you know, seemed very educated. The two of us were thinking at the same time, something's happening. What is happening?

[Andrea Gunning]

She and her brother started sleeping over at this man's apartment.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

I remember the first time this man I'm calling Marty in the morning woke up and made us breakfast, which we'd never seen a man in the kitchen before. Woke up and made us eggs, soggy eggs, and then offered ketchup with the egg. And my brother was horrified and refused to eat anything. And I remember just looking at the sky and looking at the way my mother looked at him. And I realized I needed him to like me. So I was like, okay to the ketchup on the eggs.

[Andrea Gunning]

Marty and Lupe's relationship moved very quickly. They started dating and then marriage.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

It was that sudden. It was boom, boom, boom. It almost felt as if there was no time in between. It could have been in a matter of a couple of months.

[Andrea Gunning]

Without warning, Lupe and Marty decided to move the family to New Hampshire, away.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

From all of our family, away from everybody and everything we knew, to a place that was completely. Might as well have been Mars.

[Andrea Gunning]

The marriage and the move to New Hampshire was a big adjustment. Even just getting around town was a new experience. Carmen's mom lived in New York City for her entire adult life and didn't know how to drive a car.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

So my stepfather, Marty, had to teach her how to drive. And the only time he could do that was after work. And it was dark. And we're in our little neighborhood and we get pulled over on our street, my brother and I in the backseat, and I don't know what's happening. This is terrifying. And a police officer says to my stepfather, we got a report of some Puerto Ricans in the neighborhood. And thankfully, my stepfather, of course, you know, as a white man, was just like, no officer. We lived right, you know, and his driver's license had our address. We lived right down the street.

[Andrea Gunning]

This was the first time she realized that she could be judged by the color of her skin.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

So to all of a sudden be told that we looked bad, therefore were bad. Bad enough to call the police on our own street. That message stuck with me forever.

[Andrea Gunning]

And the culture shock didn't end there.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

When I started grade school there, my brother and I were just in for the shock of our lives. We were the only brown, brown, black nation people around.

[Andrea Gunning]

Her mother taught her that being a good student was a way to blend in, to assimilate.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

My mother was constantly drilling into my head. Education was the way to make it in this country. She was a very smart woman who had to leave her country and leave school at the age of 15. So she channeled all of her ambition into me. And I wanted my mother's love, so I had to get those A's, because she loved me. When I got A's, I just became the model student.

[Andrea Gunning]

Lupe enrolled Carmen in Catholic school, where her teachers were nuns. One night at a parent teacher conference.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

Sister Rita, I'll never forget, says to my mother, carmen's so smart, and she's doing so great. It's because she's Chinese. That's the Chinese in her. I was proud for a split second because I was a Hoang. So I'm, you know, I was proud of being a Hong for a Split second. But then I looked in my mother's face. I realized she was not the Wong. In the car ride home, I wanted to assess my mother because I felt like she might have been hurt by that comment. And so I said, you know, Mommy. Sister Rita said I was smart because I was Chinese. And my mother just did a Mona Lisa smile and that was it. But I knew she was not only okay, but she somehow had something one up on this nun.

[Andrea Gunning]

Not only did Carmen feel like an outsider at school, but she began feeling that way in her own family. Especially as her mom and Marty started having children of their own.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

By the time I was 11 years old, there were four children under the age of six in the house. My sisters, they had a different last name. And having a white father, they were treated differently. So I felt like an orbiting moon, like I didn't belong. I begged my stepfather to adopt me, for me to change my name. I so wanted to be part of this new family. But they kept telling me no.

[Andrea Gunning]

Lupe reminded Carmen and Alex that they already had a father back in New York. And that he was the one supporting them financially.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

She explained to me from very young age that anything that was mine and my brother's, whether it was tuition, clothing, expenses, anything, was paid for by Poppy. And that my stepfather, besides the roof over our head and the food at the dinner table, was not contributing to my brother and I at all.

[Andrea Gunning]

She missed Poppy and their weekends together in Chinatown.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

I went from seeing him a lot to barely seeing him only a few times a year. So I was looking for her dad.

[Andrea Gunning]

Marty, even though he was distant, was the closest thing she had. So she started to call him dad.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

It was another plea to just be a part of this family. And I had four little sisters who called him dad.

[Andrea Gunning]

She and Marty developed their own kind of bond.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

My way of getting close to Marty was involving myself in whatever he was doing. Whether it was changing a tire or fixing the or chopping wood or grilling a burger or reading the Wall Street Journal. I became this surrogate boy of his.

[Andrea Gunning]

It went on this way well into her teenage years, Especially when Alex graduated from high school.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

My brother left for college, which broke my heart. I missed him so much.

[Andrea Gunning]

He'd been the only person Carmen felt like was truly hers. The only one who really understood her. Poppy was financing Alex's education at an elite college. And in the summers, he would go.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

Work with Poppy to earn basically extra money for college.

[Andrea Gunning]

One summer, Alex was helping Poppy at his job, delivering boxes of costume jewelry around New York.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

And Then one night, my mother comes to my room, I'm studying, and she does that thing when the parents want to talk to you about something serious. They sit next to you in the bed. I'm like, what's up, Mom? And she says, poppy and your brother have been arrested.

[Andrea Gunning]

It turned out those deliveries Poppy was.

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[Andrea Gunning]

While she was in high school, Carmen Rita Wong's father was arrested for trafficking heroin. Poppy had always been mysterious and constantly had lots of cash, but she had no idea what he really did for work. And it turned out neither did her older brother Alex, who'd been making deliveries with their dad.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

I'm in shock. I can't even fathom what's happening. My brother was the most straight and narrow. Straight A, never got in trouble, was not like a party or drink or nothing. Full on nerd. I was stunned.

[Andrea Gunning]

The cops figured out pretty quickly that Alex was oblivious to Papi's scheme.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

And my mother told me, thank God. Gracias. Adios. As she would say, my brother lost it so badly, he's crying and begging, absolutely having a mental breakdown. The cops were like, there is no way that you knew what was going on.

[Andrea Gunning]

She was relieved for Alex, but also furious at Poppy for putting him in that situation. Ultimately, Poppy was sentenced to 10 years in prison.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

My mother, because she was so strident about making it in this country, doing something that would get you arrested, you know, you're dead to me. He was undeserving of mention, but my mother said, here's the big news for you. There's no more money. There's nobody paying for your college because Marty is not going to contribute.

[Andrea Gunning]

Around the same time, Marty lost his.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

Job and he was not able to find work for years. So all of a sudden, my mother and my four sisters were living off of his savings.

[Andrea Gunning]

When she graduated high school, Carmen was on her own.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

My mother, her basic mantra is, you're old enough, go work.

[Andrea Gunning]

And that's what Carmen did. She moved back to New York City where she worked and put herself through college.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

And I was just all full steam ahead. I had to succeed.

[Andrea Gunning]

In her 20s, Carmen began her career. She'd always wanted to be a writer, and she was offered a job.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

They said, okay, well, there's an opening. And the Time Life building, which is legendary. I was excited. I wanted to work at Time or People. And they said, oh, it's Money magazine. And I said, well, Even in my 20s, I knew, get your foot in the door, sister. Get your foot in the door. And I ended up at Money magazine.

[Andrea Gunning]

Carmen was finding her independence, solidifying her sense of self. Meanwhile, things back in New Hampshire were falling apart. Marty never recovered financially after he lost his job.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

My mother's white knight had fallen off his horse and wasn't getting back on it. And she was wildly disappointed. She felt like she had gave birth to all these kids and given them this fantasy, and he was disappointing her, and their marriage did not survive.

[Andrea Gunning]

She wasn't surprised to hear the news about Lupe and Marty's divorce. But for Carmen, life in New Hampshire was in the rearview mirror. She and her brother Alex had both settled in New York, and as adults, they became closer than ever.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

I have my midtown job, and I had my own apartment back uptown with my Dominican people up in Washington Heights. And I get a call from my brother, and we talked a lot, but this call was later than usual. And his tone was different. And I was like, what's up? And he said, oh, I talked to Mom. Okay.

[Andrea Gunning]

After her divorce, Lupe threw herself into religion. Part of that process, for her, meant reconciling decisions she'd made in the past. So she called Alex to make a kind of confession. Lupe told Alex she had terminated pregnancies both before Carmen and after.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

And we both kind of just stood there on the line in silence. That just seems odd, right? Like, why would you. Why was I.

[Andrea Gunning]

Why had Lupe chosen to keep Carmen? The confession brought up those same feelings Carmen had for a long time. The sense that she was missing something, that she didn't have all the information.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

I couldn't put my finger on it, and I just could not shake this nagging feeling that something was wrong.

[Andrea Gunning]

Carmen was well into adulthood now. She wondered, how much did she really know about her own story? Was there something her mother wasn't telling her?

[Carmen Rita Wong]

There was a story about me. The story that she was not telling any of us. And it didn't jive with who I was. I was getting close to 30, and it was a big mystery.

[Andrea Gunning]

But just as she began to ask those questions, I get a call from.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

My sister from the hospital saying, I'm in the hospital with Mom. She has colon cancer. Stage four. Stage four? I said, how do they know it's stage four? You just got to the emergency room. They had just tried to change her into a gown, and they could see all the tumors everywhere, all over her body.

[Andrea Gunning]

Lupe was dying. And if Carmen wanted the truth, she was running out of time. That's when she got an unexpected call from Marty. By this point, he was divorced from Lupe and living in Rhode Island.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

So when he called me, I was pretty shocked. I automatically was like, something's wrong. I was like, what's going on? Are you okay? And he said, I need you to come visit me. He wouldn't tell me, but I knew it was serious.

[Andrea Gunning]

So she made the trip to see him.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

And we're at the kitchen table, and he says to me, I gotta tell you, Poppy's not your father. Every cell in my body was just angry. I said, okay, who is? And I knew what he was gonna say, but I wanted to hear him say it. And he said, I am. I burst into tears. Burning, angry tears, could not stop crying.

[Andrea Gunning]

Marty had known all along.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

So I'm 30 years old, and I'm hearing for the first time that my parents, the first people you're supposed to trust in the world, the first people that you supposed to learn what trust is, lied to me. I was so angry. Especially since I had begged so hard to be part of this family.

[Andrea Gunning]

And then there was this.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

This whole idea of how Marty was not allowed to financially support me.

[Andrea Gunning]

Carmen had been explicitly told for decades that Marty wasn't her dad. And because of that, Poppy Wong supported them financially. The lie was like a wall that had been built in her family. And Carmen was left on the outside.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

My sisters didn't have to struggle so much. They were taken care of financially. But I was left to flail. What was that all about? So you're saying now I'm yours, But you didn't take care of me. You didn't, you know. I had no safety net. Where were you?

[Andrea Gunning]

Carmen left Marty's house enraged and in shock.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

When I got back to New York, my apartment was decorated with this wonderful framed Chinese silk screen print that I had gotten in Chinatown.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was in that moment that she asked herself a bigger question.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

Was I Chinese anymore?

[Andrea Gunning]

She felt like she was being stripped of her identity as a Chinese Dominican woman. It was an identity she loved and had proudly carried for 30 years.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

How do I feel authentic as a human being? Like, if your whole story is a lie, how do you feel authentic as a person?

[Andrea Gunning]

As angry as she was at Marty, she knew who was actually behind this story.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

I just saw in all of this the machinations of my mother, who ruled the roost in the sense of what gets told and what doesn't get told.

[Andrea Gunning]

She needed to talk to her mom directly.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

She had only been given months to live, and I had to know if it was true.

[Andrea Gunning]

So Carmen went to visit her mom in person.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

I saw her and her emaciated frame and hugged her. And we cried. But I still was strident inside because I knew that I was there to confront her about something.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was A horrible position to be in, confronting her mother about a lie at the very end of her life.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

What made me very, very sad was that this had to come out right before she was dying. And what made me triply sad was that she was going to die without telling me.

[Andrea Gunning]

This was Carmen's last chance to get the truth from her mom.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

And I told her what Marty told me.

[Andrea Gunning]

At first, Lupe was defensive.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

She did her typical Lupe thing. How dare he tell you something that was mine? It was my secret. It was my truth. And I reminded her, no, it was mine. Okay, what happened?

[Andrea Gunning]

And so Lupe broke down and told Carmen the full story. It started well before Alex and Carmen were born. She explained that her marriage to Papi was never a love marriage. It was arranged by Lupe's father.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

He married off my mother and her sister to, essentially Chinese gangsters for money. They had their paperwork, and my mother and her sister didn't. So my grandfather arranged their marriages, the ages of, like, 19 and 18.

[Andrea Gunning]

Marrying Papi Wong had been Lupe's pathway to American citizenship. That's why she cared so much about assimilation, about Carmen making it in this country. But Lupe was never in love with Papi. He was a means to an end. And Marty, in his own way, was, too.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

She was like, I need to get us the best odds. That's the reason why she married an Anglo American.

[Andrea Gunning]

Marrying Marty might have been opportunistic, but Lupe had actually loved him. She'd been seeing him on the side while in her arranged marriage to Poppy and even gotten pregnant with Marty multiple times. She and Marty weren't going to have children of their own while Lupe was still legally married to another man. When Lupe found out she was pregnant.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

With Carmen, her story was she was in the car with her sister, was driving, pulling up into the clinic, and Poppy Wong showed up. Poppy showed up and said, no, don't do it.

[Andrea Gunning]

Poppy was certain this baby was his. Poppy vowed to take care of the baby, to support her. And that was enough for Lupe.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

She said that because Marty didn't want me, that he had no right to me. But because Poppy wanted me. I was his child. That was my father. He had the right to me. And she was going to live the rest of her life and go to her grave with this truth of hers. And sitting in my own anger and pain, I also looked at her with nothing but eyes of a skeptical detective.

[Andrea Gunning]

Carmen felt like she finally had the full story, the truth.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

It was my mother's truth, I tell you.

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[Andrea Gunning]

Lupe's deathbed confession was the last time Carmen talked to her mother about her origin story.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

I never brought up that confrontation again. I knew, I guess, what I needed to know, and I knew that I probably wasn't going to be able to find out anything else. And so we just focused on keeping her comfortable until she passed away.

[Andrea Gunning]

After Lupe passed, Carmen began processing all this new information. It meant that she and Alex were technically half siblings. It was heartbreaking, but it only brought them closer. She leaned on Alex to help her make a big decision if she should tell Poppy. Because all of these years, Poppy believed both Alex and Carmen were his.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

I called my brother and I mentioned Poppy, and I was like, well, I gotta tell him. And I gotta. And he just said, in his very quiet way, because he was always very quiet, please don't tell Poppy. Don't tell Poppy. I said, why? Because I was this big, like, the truth must be known. And he said to me, look, Poppy doesn't have anybody. How much more did we need him to feel alone? Would it have just been a punishment? What would it have done besides make me feel better? And would it have made me feel better?

[Andrea Gunning]

After all, Poppy had been there for her for her entire childhood in ways Marty hadn't.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

So she decided Poppy was the father I had.

[Andrea Gunning]

She made a promise to Alex that she wouldn't tell Poppy.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

I remained acting as Poppy's child, including taking care of him as he grew increasingly sick until he died the day Poppy passed away. I took care of his cremation and everything, and I never said a word.

[Andrea Gunning]

Life moved on for Carmen. She'd been a magazine editor, an advice columnist, and had hosted a national TV news show. She had made it. Lupe would have been proud.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

I was in New York. I now was, you know, an editor at a national magazine and paying all my bills. And I got married, divorced, had a wonderful daughter of my own. My brother ended up in a house full of girls, and I had my own. And one Christmas, we decided to get genetic tests.

[Andrea Gunning]

They saw the tests as a novelty. Carmen, Alex, and one sister all took the test. They wanted to know more about their heritage.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

And we found it to be this more kind of like how fun, how cool, how crazy.

[Andrea Gunning]

It had been over a decade since Lupe passed away. Carmen already knew who her biological father was, so she was prepared to see that she was half Italian from Marty's side.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

So I was expecting to see that. Very disappointingly, I was not Chinese, but that I was going to be full siblings with my Sisters and that I was somehow half Italian. Well, the results come, and I'm on my phone, I'm at the gym, and I had to sit down because that's not what it said.

[Andrea Gunning]

The first result to come in was the heritage portion. It revealed she wasn't half Italian like Marty. She was half Spanish.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

I can't tell you how much your physical body reacts to news. Breath knocked out him. I had to sit, head spinning, called my brother. What the hell?

[Andrea Gunning]

The familial DNA was still processing, so she couldn't see the family tree.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

And he was like, well, you know Europe, you know, Italy's close to Spain, and they're close to each other, and you never know. My sister, I talked to her, and she was like, the same thing. Like, don't. Don't worry about it. Like, well, let's wait until my results come in and we all match up.

[Andrea Gunning]

When the DNA came in, she and Alex's family got on a FaceTime call to check the results together.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

Let's check. Let's check the results. Nina says her tests are in, right? We click, and we're all seeing the same screen, and all you hear is us going, it says, I'm half siblings to all of them.

[Andrea Gunning]

Neither Poppy nor Marty were Carmen's biological father. Her mother had lied on her deathbed. The whole story she gave Carmen was not true. She'd lied to Carmen, to Marty, and to Poppy.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

I couldn't help but marvel at the life she led to put me in that moment.

[Andrea Gunning]

Her mother was gone, and she'd taken the full story with her. Even when Carmen demanded the truth, her mother hadn't given it to her. And now Carmen was nowhere close to finding the real answer. The test told her who her father wasn't, but it didn't reveal who her biological father could be.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

I didn't have anything beyond third and fourth cousins on this genetic test, so that started my quest. Wow. I had to find out who this guy was. My father, my real biological father.

[Andrea Gunning]

Her brother Alex wasn't going to let Carmen go it alone, so he became her right hand on this journey.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

He felt very much that it was his responsibility as an older sibling to make sure that I found this other family.

[Andrea Gunning]

They got to work. Their first stop, Miami, to visit their mother's lifelong best friend.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

She was aging and ill, but he was like, you've got to ask her. She may have answers. Nothing. So I asked my godmother in the Dominican. Nothing. Everyone said Lupe was always quiet and protective. You know, she held things very tightly. She didn't share much. We don't know. I hired a genealogist even. No luck.

[Andrea Gunning]

Carmen and Alex spent months researching and investigating to get answers. But they kept coming up short. It was frustrating. A few months into this process, I.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

Got that dreaded phone call like I got about my mother, this time from my sister in law about my brother. He'd had a cough that was lingering and wouldn't go away. He had stage 4 non smoking lung cancer.

[Andrea Gunning]

It only furthered his resolve to help his sister.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

I think as he got this diagnosis, he realized that I would be very much alone.

[Andrea Gunning]

He stayed committed to helping Carmen find answers right up until the end.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

And I said to him on those last few days as I was holding his hand in the hospital, I was just like, man, you've got to go up there. You've got to talk to mom. You've got to find the answers. And unfortunately, my brother passed away a year to the day of his diagnosis. The biggest devastation of my life is the loss of him.

[Andrea Gunning]

In the wake of this loss, Carmen was left asking herself so many questions.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

I just wanted to get at the bottom of it. And frankly though, it was very important for me to find who my biological father was. More importantly, in some ways, was figuring out why my mother kept this secret. Why didn't she tell me?

[Andrea Gunning]

She had so much pain, confusion, and anger. At this point, Carmen was thriving in her career as a professional writer. So she decided to use her writing skills to process these big questions, questions that might go unanswered forever. She got a book deal at Penguin Random House. It would be a memoir called why didn't you tell me?

[Carmen Rita Wong]

So I write the book, I hand in my first edits. I hadn't checked my genetic sites in a while because I felt very, I don't say just discouraged. I mean, there's only so much. You can only wait until the right person takes a test. And maybe that never would happen. I couldn't pin my hopes on it anymore.

[Andrea Gunning]

Shortly after she turned in the first.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

Draft of the book, I just hit refresh and it happened. The right person took the test. My niece, my paternal niece took the test right away.

[Andrea Gunning]

She sent her a message and I.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

Sent just a nice kind of basic note saying, here's who I am and I understand if you don't want to know me or you don't know who I am or I understand if you don't have anything to do with me. I just want to know who he was. I got a response within hours. I got an email from my Real biological half sister the next day.

[Andrea Gunning]

And just like that, Carmen got the answer she'd been waiting for. Who her biological father was. And to her surprise, it was a man she'd never heard of. He was from the Canary Islands. And this whole time, he'd been much closer than she imagined.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

He lived right up the street, right up the street from when I was a kid in Manhattan.

[Andrea Gunning]

She racked her brain for any memory of this man, but she didn't have one. So she asked her newfound half sister if there was any way she could meet him. That's when she learned.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

Unfortunately, my biological father passed away many years ago. I cried as if my father died. That's what it felt like in that moment. Like I got the news my father was dead. Another father. A father I never knew, but it still was. My father died.

[Andrea Gunning]

If she couldn't meet him, she wanted to find out anything she could about his family. She learned her father was one of 11 and the youngest.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

Her name is Carmen. Even though my mother said that I was named after my godmother, whose name is Carmen, I highly suspect I was named after this youngest sibling. My middle name is the same middle name as my stepfather, Marty's sister, and my last name is Wong. My three names are literally three names from the three different fathers.

[Andrea Gunning]

@ this point, Carmen didn't know if Lupe ever knew who her father was, let alone if the biological father ever knew. But then her half sister told her something interesting.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

So my biological sister knew I existed. From the time that she was in.

[Andrea Gunning]

Her 20s, Carmen's biological father had known she was out there. That's the most proof she'll ever get about what Lupe really knew. It was the end of a roller coaster. Carmen's identity had been shifting for nearly her entire adult life.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

Every decade brought a new father along. 30, finding out that it wasn't dad number two. 40, then it's dad number three. Then 50. We know who he is now. And it was a wild revelation. Then I needed to process and write about what this all meant to me, to have these three fathers.

[Andrea Gunning]

She called the editor of her book, the one she just finished, and said.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

We'Re gonna need an epilogue. It wasn't the ending that I thought I was gonna get, but sometimes the universe just gives you little gifts.

[Andrea Gunning]

It's a unique position to have your fundamental identity shipped multiple times in your adult life. This is what she's learned from that experience.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

How your genes express themselves is only one part of your identity. How you were raised and who were your parents is another part of your identity. I think what's important is your self identity, the truth of your life. So for example, now do I say I'm Dominican Chinese, which I said all my life? No, what I say is I was raised Dominican Chinese. I also can say I'm Latina, but I'm a Hwang, because that's what's important, because that was my experience. I'm a Hwang. I remain a Hwang. I always will be a Hoang.

[Andrea Gunning]

Carmen believes Lupe had a reason for keeping the secret. She thought back to moments in her childhood, like her mom's Mona Lisa smile when a nun said, carmen must be smart because she was half Chinese. After all these years, Carmen has come to an understanding about her mom's choices.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

When you are from a community that's, you know, looked down on or seen as lesser than, any mistake is magnified greatly. Greatly. Everything has to be perfect and clean. And you know, my gosh, I mean, my socks were ironed and I wore a slip under my uniform and, you know, my hair was perfectly ironed and everything has to be perfect. So no one can say a word against you. It's about understanding, especially if it's a parent. When you understand and you see them as a separate human being. So much of the pain stops now.

[Andrea Gunning]

In her 50s, she's oriented herself to who she is and what family means to her.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

Through all of this, I've learned to, in many ways, redefine what family is. And for me, family is who shows up. And that was my brother. He showed up for me. I'm still a solo moon kind of floating around, but I don't feel so undone, tethered. And I'm hoping my daughter has the gift of not feeling untethered and instead feeling much more belonging than I had.

[Andrea Gunning]

We end all of our weekly episodes with the same question. Why did you want to tell your story?

[Carmen Rita Wong]

Breaking Cycles. A big part of it isn't just telling the truth. A big part of it is there's no shame in my mother's story. All these things I should be ashamed of my mother, you know, sleeping around and all this sort of stuff. No, this is life. And the shame ends here with me. Because in shame, you only find isolation and pain. And it keeps us, especially as women, very quiet. It's very oppressive. I was not going to let that continue. And if my story can help other people who feel shame about how they came into this world because their parent, you know, their mother had an affair or they didn't tell them this or they didn't tell them that if my story can make them feel less shame, that is so powerful because then they will not cause pain to the people they love around them.

[Andrea Gunning]

On the next episode of Betrayal.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

She was the best option. She was the only option.

[Andrea Gunning]

She was the only person I had to trust.

[Carmen Rita Wong]

I said okay and I signed it.

[Andrea Gunning]

If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email [e-mail] that's betrayalpodmail.com we're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Listeners Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison, hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Monique Laborde, also produced by Ben Federman. Associate producers are Kristin Melcuri and Kaitlyn Golden. Our iHeart team is Ally Perry and Jessica Krynczyk. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Del Vecchio Additional editing support from Tanner Robbins. Betrayals theme composed by Oliver Baines Music library provided by My Music and for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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