S1: Ep 8 - The Last Word

Summary

Burden of Guilt: Season 1, Episode 8 - "The Last Word"

Release Date: December 6, 2023
Hosts: Nancy Glass, Tracey Raquel, Bart (Tracey’s husband), and Goldie Hunter (their daughter)

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Introduction

In the eighth episode of "Burden of Guilt," titled "The Last Word," host Nancy Glass delves deeper into the complex and emotionally charged journey of Tracey Raquel Berns. This episode serves as a culmination of Tracey's quest for truth and healing, intertwining her personal struggles with her relentless pursuit of justice for her late brother, Matthew.

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Matthew’s Exhumation and Its Impact

The episode begins with Tracey addressing her absence during Matthew’s exhumation, a pivotal moment in the investigation against Jan Barry Sandlin.

• Nancy Glass (03:22): "Tracey Raquel, let's start here. You didn't go to Matthew's exhumation, and you were the reason it was happening."

• Tracey Raquel (04:22): "I didn't go to the exhumation because there was already so much media attention... It would be disrespectful to stand on the other side of the cemetery away from Kathy."

Key Points:

• Emotional Turmoil: Tracey chose not to attend to maintain respect and avoid additional media frenzy.

• Media Scrutiny: The exhumation was under heavy media spotlight, complicating Tracey’s decision.

• Legal Ramifications: Assistant District Attorney Leanne Mangone attended the exhumation, showcasing the legal weight of the event.

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Mistrial and Media Portrayal

A significant portion of the episode discusses the mistrial and the subsequent media portrayal of Tracey as a scapegoat.

• Judge's Statement (05:34): "There has been an egregious violation of the witness sequestration rule, which in the context of this case, is irreparable."

• Tracey’s Reflection (05:45): "It's just how it was portrayed... the girl who spent all her life trying to get this case reopened just ruined it because she can't follow rules."

Key Points:

• Violation of Protocols: Tracey's inadvertent breach of the witness sequestration rule led to further complications in the trial.

• Demonization by Media: The media painted Tracey negatively, overshadowing her genuine pursuit of justice.

• Jan Sandlin’s Reaction (06:26): "Ha, ha... You were going to win the battle, but I'm going to win the war."

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Legal Battles and Betrayal

Tracey reveals the legal maneuvers against her, including a falsified subpoena for her medical records.

• Nancy Glass (06:54): "You were not notified that Corrine Mall had subpoenaed your records."

• Tracey’s Response (07:33): "It felt like a betrayal all over again."

Key Points:

• Falsified Subpoena: The defense attempted to undermine Tracey's credibility by accessing her medical records without consent.

• Personal Betrayal: These actions intensified Tracey's feelings of isolation and betrayal within the legal system.

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Jan Sandlin’s Personal Life Amidst the Trial

The episode touches upon Jan Sandlin’s surprising personal developments during the trial, including his marriage.

• Tracey’s Surprise (08:00): "He got married during the trial... the media covered it like it was an event."

• Tracey’s Reaction (08:31): "I just don't understand. That is a whole separate thinking that I am not qualified to discuss."

Key Points:

• Unexpected Marriage: Jan's decision to marry multiple women during the trial baffled Tracey and highlighted his manipulative nature.

• Media Sensationalism: The media's focus on Jan's personal life detracted from the gravity of the case.

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Family Support and Generational Trauma

Tracey discusses the role of her Aunt June and the broader theme of generational abuse within her family.

• Nancy Glass (09:34): "Abuse is not a one generation thing. It is many generations."

• Tracey’s Insight (09:49): "Everybody in a family will handle that abuse differently."

Key Points:

• Aunt June’s Role: Initially supportive, Aunt June refrained from participating in discussions about the podcast and show due to discomfort.

• Generational Abuse: The episode explores how trauma and abuse can perpetuate through generations, affecting each member uniquely.

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Unresolved Issues and Ongoing Pursuits

Tracey highlights unresolved matters, including the potential involvement of William David Korn and Nancy Tegeder in Matthew’s death.

• Nancy Glass (11:12): "Nancy Teggeter was Jan's first wife. And William David Korn was the police officer that Tracy Raquel believes may have been murdered by Jan."

Key Points:

• Missing Links: Tracey remains uncertain about Ted Golder's whereabouts during Matthew's death and his reaction to the tragedy.

• Continued Vigilance: Despite years passing, Tracey’s determination to uncover the full truth remains unwavering.

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Personal Health Struggles

Tracey candidly shares her battle with systemic lupus, shedding light on her physical and emotional resilience.

• Tracey’s Disclosure (16:15): "I was diagnosed with systemic lupus in the early 90s..."

• Goldie Hunter’s Perspective (17:56): "I never met him, but I did feel like he was a big part of my life and watching over me."

Key Points:

• Chronic Illness: Tracey manages her lupus while navigating the emotional burdens of her past.

• Family Support: Her husband Bart and daughter Goldie provide unwavering support, helping her maintain strength and functionality despite health challenges.

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Parenting and Breaking the Cycle

The episode delves into Tracey's parenting style, influenced by her tumultuous upbringing, and her efforts to break the cycle of abuse.

• Goldie Hunter (19:00): "I would definitely say my mom is a helicopter parent."

• Tracey’s Commitment (21:03): "First of all, I had to acknowledge my own abuse and then get to a place where I'm comfortable to talk about that with my children."

Key Points:

• Overprotectiveness: Tracey's heightened concern stems from her childhood trauma, leading to a vigilant parenting approach.

• Breaking the Cycle: Despite her fears, Tracey strives to provide a nurturing and supportive environment for her children, ensuring they do not endure similar hardships.

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Healing and Moving Forward

Tracey reflects on the transformative power of sharing her story through the podcast, emphasizing healing and self-discovery.

• Tracey’s Revelation (28:58): "This has been one of the single most important things that I have done for myself and my family."

• Bart’s Support (28:40): "Anytime that Tracey Raquel has a moment of guilt, the first thing I ask is, what is it that you feel guilty for? You were the victim in this case."

Key Points:

• Therapeutic Journey: Creating the podcast has been instrumental in Tracey's healing process, allowing her to confront and release longstanding guilt and shame.

• Family’s Role: Bart and Goldie play crucial roles in Tracey's journey, offering love, understanding, and encouragement.

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Conclusion and Final Reflections

As the episode concludes, the focus shifts to Tracey's aspirations for the future and the legacy of her brother, Matthew.

• Goldie Hunter (23:40): "My whole life, my mom had always said Matthew was our guardian angel."

• Tracey’s Final Thoughts (28:40): "I have a choice. And I don't have to be anything you say I am."

Key Points:

• Guardian Angel: Tracey honors Matthew's memory, viewing him as a protective presence in their lives.

• Empowerment: Tracey's journey underscores the importance of self-empowerment and the choice to define one's identity beyond past traumas.

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Notable Quotes

• Tracey Raquel (16:02): "You'd think you would. Yeah, maybe. It all had to do with people were really afraid of Jan."

• Bart (20:14): "She taught me how a man should be and how a man should treat a woman. Being a good human being, looking out for others."

• Goldie Hunter (19:35): "I couldn’t even go to the gym and leave her in the gym daycare because someone was not nice to her one time."

• Tracey Raquel (28:07): "It's terrifying to heal, because in order to go through that, you are gonna fall apart and people are not gonna stand by you."

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Final Thoughts

"The Last Word" encapsulates the essence of Tracey Raquel Berns' relentless pursuit of justice and personal healing. Through candid conversations, emotional revelations, and unwavering family support, the episode paints a poignant portrait of resilience and the enduring quest for truth. As Tracey continues to navigate the shadows of her past, her story serves as an inspiring testament to the power of perseverance and the human spirit.

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Stay Tuned:
"Burden of Guilt" continues to unravel in its upcoming documentary series, slated for 2024 on Paramount+. For more insights and episodes, subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or follow Glass Podcasts and iHeartPodcasts on Instagram @lasspodcasts.

Transcript

[Tracey Raquel]

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[Bart]

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[Nancy Glass]

Hi all, we have some exciting news to share. Paramount plus has turned Burden of Guilt into a docuseries. You will get to meet the people involved, you'll hear from the people who have never spoken before, and you get to see where the story took place. We are so proud and excited to share it with you. You can stream it right now on Paramount Plus. Jan Barry Sandlin left his third trial convicted of the murder of Matthew golder. And in 2001, the Supreme Court of Georgia held up the verdict on appeal. He remains in a Florida prison and the consequences of his bad acts continue to reverberate. He will die in prison. I'm Nancy Glass and this is Burden of guilt. Episode 8 the Last Word. Tracy Raquel's story started in 1971 and it isn't over yet. In the last episode, we learned more about the unfinished business that still weighs on her. Did Jan Barry Sandlin commit other murders and get away with them? I've reached out to Jan for an interview and he said yes, but the prison won't let us in. If that changes, we will update you. This series has been several years in the making, so we want to tie up some loose ends. Okay, Tracey Raquel, let's start here. You didn't go to Matthew's exhumation, and you were the reason it was happening.

[Tracey Raquel]

Right.

[Nancy Glass]

You wanted to explain why you didn't go. Matthew's exhumation was a pivotal point in the investigation and in Jan's conviction. The medical examiner's office exhumed Matthew's body with very little expectation of finding any remains to study after so many years. So just to set this up, here's what the district attorney and medical examiner told us.

[Bart]

When we got there, it was a clear day, a little cool, and when I got to the grave site, the dirt had already been moved. I remember feeling a bit more somber. It seemed to me that we were disturbing a sleeping baby, and that really bothered me.

[Nancy Glass]

Assistant District Attorney Leanne Mangone attended the exhumation. She tried to support Kathy as she watched everything unfold. Tracey Raquel was not there.

[Tracey Raquel]

I remember her being quite emotional, crying. And I kind of took my cues from her. She wanted to stand back, and we let that happen. I didn't go to the exhumation because there was already so much media attention, and I knew that Kathy was going with the district attorneys, and we were barely on speaking terms, if that. And I just felt like it would be disrespectful, you know, to go and, what, stand on the other side of the cemetery away from her.

[Nancy Glass]

Right. You didn't want to call more attention or attention in the wrong way to what was going on, Correct?

[Tracey Raquel]

Yes. The attention needed to be about Matthew's death, his homicide, and how are we going to take care of that? That needed to be the priority.

[Nancy Glass]

Let's talk about the mistrial for a sec. You were told you couldn't watch the trial or read about it, but you did catch a glimpse of your mother on tv, and you told the prosecution about that because it was the right thing to do. Let's listen to what the judge said about that.

[Tracey Raquel]

There has been an egregious violation of the witness sequestration rule, which in the context of this case, is irreparable.

[Nancy Glass]

You felt you were demonized for this.

[Tracey Raquel]

It's just how it was portrayed. You know, everything from the mistrial happening, what media, press. I mean, I think that was a bigger story than the fact that this case got reopened was like, oh, the girl who, you know, spent all her life trying to get this case reopened just ruined it because she can't follow rules.

[Nancy Glass]

The press was really hard on you. We've got a case that's down the.

[Tracey Raquel]

Tubes at this point.

[Nancy Glass]

Jan Barry, Sandlin's attorney, exploded in court this morning, outraged after Traci Rame admitted she saw news coverage of her father's trial yesterday, despite a judge's order not to watch or read anything about it until it was over. I don't think that I have done.

[Tracey Raquel]

Anything wrong to affect this man's rights. So it was just a lot of humiliation. And then, you know, Jan's calling me from the prison on the phone 24, 48 hours, saying, ha, ha, you know, you were going to win the battle, but I'm going to win the war. He was laughing at me.

[Nancy Glass]

On another topic, there was something the DA's office let you know. It was an action taken by the.

[Tracey Raquel]

Defense right after the mistrial happened. Jeff Brickman, leeann and Jay Tom handed me a document, and it was a falsified subpoena for medical records for me.

[Nancy Glass]

You were not notified that Corrine Mall had subpoenaed your records. She had been looking for what Kathy told the staff at the psychiatric hospital where she tried to commit you when you were a teenager. And neither you nor Kathy would have ever agreed to release your files.

[Tracey Raquel]

Right.

[Nancy Glass]

So what was it like for you to find out about that?

[Tracey Raquel]

It felt like a betrayal all over again. It was. You know, hey, I can't defend this man, so I've got to get evidence about this child and try and get something done.

[Nancy Glass]

Traci Raquel ended up suing public defender Corrine Mulligan, her office, and the hospital. The case was settled. You want to talk about the fact that Jan got married while all this was going on?

[Tracey Raquel]

I'd heard people say in prison, but really, he got married during the trial.

[Nancy Glass]

What?

[Tracey Raquel]

Yeah. It was the most bizarre thing. This woman was coming to see him and her daughter, which turned out to be Jan's daughter, and I think she was only 16 or 17. But they were at the courthouse, and I remember Leanne and Jeff calling me and saying, you're not gonna believe this.

[Nancy Glass]

And what's even crazier, the media covered it like it was an event.

[Tracey Raquel]

Who gives this woman to be married? Is it Angela? Charlene. Charlene, would you take Jan to be your wedded husband? Do you take this man? Okay, say this for me. Say, I take Charlene to be my wedded wife, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better or worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and health, and to love and to cherish till death do us part. She was another one of those girls in high school. He was just enamored with him or whatever. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you Mr. And Mrs. J.N. sandlin. I love him very much. I believe in his innocence, and I believe that there will definitely be a retrial. And when there is, they will have a turnaround and a verdict.

[Nancy Glass]

All these women met him in high school and still have a thing for him.

[Tracey Raquel]

I just don't understand. That is a whole separate thinking that I am not qualified to discuss.

[Nancy Glass]

Let's put Kathy's sister, your Aunt June, in the conversation because she got you out of the house, she gave you a job in her hair salon. She did a lot of wonderful things for you. She was very supportive. And then she disappeared.

[Tracey Raquel]

Well, she did, and I love her still. She was somebody who was very important to me, and she was, in a lot of ways, a surrogate. Abuse is not a one generation thing. It is many generations. It takes many generations to get to certain places, and everybody in a family will handle that abuse differently. Kathy has always said that she grew up in an abusive environment.

[Nancy Glass]

Do you think Aunt June would talk about any of the abuse? Because she was your advocate as a kid? We reached out to her.

[Tracey Raquel]

She said, oh, I'll do whatever you need. But when this podcast and the show was actually coming to fruition, she panicked. She's not going to be part of that. She's not going to discuss in a healthy way. For years, every time it would come up, she would roll her eyes and be like, ugh. Some of my aunts and uncles handled it with drug abuse, addiction, and some are mentally not stable. Then you have some that just felt like, hey, as far away as I can get from everything and as much money as I can make, and then I will be successful and it doesn't exist. But there's a rule to that, and that rule is we don't ever talk about it because you can't go there.

[Nancy Glass]

And Tracey Raquel and her aunt were clearly not aligned. On the unfinished business Tracey Raquel talked about in our last episode, she would.

[Tracey Raquel]

Say, you know, it's not your responsibility to worry about William David Korn. It's not your responsibility to worry about Nancy Tegeder. You know, get over it. Just let it go.

[Nancy Glass]

Nancy Tegarter was Jan's first wife. And William David Korn was the police officer that Tracy Raquel believes may have been murdered by Jan.

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[Bart]

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[Tracey Raquel]

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[Nancy Glass]

Here's an email we got from a listener. This is really fascinating. So this listener says, I'm not done with the series, so maybe this question is premature, but what's the deal with Ted Golder? Wasn't Matthew his biological son? I thought that was the reason Jan didn't care about him. So where was he during the trial when Matthew died? Wouldn't he have been at the hospital and the funeral? He's never mentioned. Except when Tracy Raquel did the paternity test. Wouldn't he want to put Jan away for killing his kid? You know, we've all had that question. That's a really good question. Let's go back to episode four, where Tracy Raquel first told us about meeting Ted Golder as an adult.

[Tracey Raquel]

He really wanted to know if I was his daughter. He asked if I would do a paternity test, which I sure. Now, while we were waiting for the results to come back, we talked daily, just about things and life and people. And it was a nice thing. The paternity test came back and he called and he said, you're not my daughter. And he said, you know what? You're a really nice woman. I wish the best for you, but I don't want anything else to do with you. You're not my child. And that was it. I never heard from him again.

[Nancy Glass]

But wasn't he upset about Matthew's death? Did he ever say anything to you about it?

[Tracey Raquel]

I mean, the only thing he said was he always thought he did it, too.

[Nancy Glass]

That's really something, because I think this listener is right. I mean, you'd think that he would be really happy about this and really angry about his son's death.

[Tracey Raquel]

You'd think you would. Yeah, maybe. It all had to do with people were really afraid of Jan. That is purely speculation because I just don't have any supporting information for that.

[Nancy Glass]

Do you want to talk at all about your illness?

[Tracey Raquel]

Yeah, sure. I was diagnosed with systemic lupus in the early 90s, and it's suspected that I've had it my entire life. You know, you just don't have flares as often when you're young. It became really, really severe 2000, 2001, and it kind of stayed that way. I can function for the most part. Like, you know, my. My body functions as far as. Like, everything moves the way it's supposed to, with the exception of my hands. I mean. But it is really funny, you know, My daughter has a friend who, the first time I met her, she said later on to Goldie, your poor mother, how does she do anything? Doesn't she need tired help? And Goldie was like, what are you talking about? And she was like, how? She can't. Well, how does she function? And Gully was like, oh, don't worry. My mom's got a Trick for everything, which is true. I still do pretty much everything I want to do. It's just. It might take me three hours to prep dinner where it would take everybody else a half hour, but I'm getting it done.

[Nancy Glass]

You've heard a lot of Tracey Raquel's incredible story. It was important to end this series with the people who have really been Tracy Raquel's strengths and focus of her life. Her husband and her children.

[Tracey Raquel]

Yeah, two. Goldie Hunter. Goldie's the oldest.

[Nancy Glass]

Her husband is Bart.

[Bart]

I hadn't asked her to marry me yet, but she sat me down and she said, I've got some important things to tell you about me. She went through and explained some of her childhood history and the challenges that she's been through. The most important thing really wasn't so much in what she was telling me the experiences she's had, except that the toll that it had taken on her. She wanted to make sure that I was informed, like, hey, you know, there's still things that I have to work through and will continue to be things to work through. When she told me these things, I was just flabbergasted. But it made sense to me in a way. She is such a strong person, and only a strong person could have gone through these things and be the type of person that she is today.

[Nancy Glass]

I've known Tracy Raquel for a few years now, and I can say that she is an innately maternal person, caring and supportive. It's just who she is. Growing up taking care of herself and others simply reinforced this. But becoming a mother with without having any kind of example to follow presented new challenges. Here's Goldie.

[Goldie Hunter]

I would definitely say my mom is a helicopter parent. She was always on top of everything we did or where we were at, where we were allowed to go.

[Tracey Raquel]

I was not prepared for the worry, the concern. Everything was a potential disaster for me.

[Nancy Glass]

An expert will tell you that a child in Tracey Raquel's situation will either grow up to repeat the learned behavior or go in the complete opposite direction.

[Tracey Raquel]

You know, given my childhood, everything was just, she's gonna get hurt, she's gonna get lost, she's gonna fall, she's gonna break, you know, anything.

[Goldie Hunter]

There was times where it was very frustrating and I didn't understand as a child.

[Tracey Raquel]

I couldn't even go to the gym and leave her in the gym daycare because someone was not nice to her one time. And to me, everything was just a catastrophe.

[Nancy Glass]

But to her husband and kids, carrying that weight turned Traci Racquel into a fully present and aware parent.

[Bart]

My wife's experiences has made her a loving mother, one that has attention to detail, that is always aware of, like how the children are feeling and will always, always be there for them.

[Goldie Hunter]

She gave us love because she didn't want to be what her parents were.

[Bart]

I think that there's a level of fear, too. They're never going to be out of her sight, which in my mind, this can't be a bad thing. Those kids are her life.

[Goldie Hunter]

It's hard to think that she grew up that way. To go through that kind of abuse and grow up living and thinking that you were the cause of your brother's death or you did it, or have people blaming her, especially to hide the fact that somebody else like. Like Jan is a murderer, you know, and a bad person, you know, to protect someone like that as her own mother, to not protect her child is horrifying because as an adult, she's the opposite. You know, she loves us so much and can never imagine hurting us.

[Nancy Glass]

A few years after Goldie was born, Tracey Raquel welcomed her second child.

[Tracey Raquel]

When Hyra was born, I was 27.

[Bart]

My mother was a bit overprotective, but seeing where she came from, it made sense.

[Nancy Glass]

That's Hunter.

[Bart]

I don't know if there's ever a specific moment where I became aware of my mother's childhood. I think it was just something that we knew from, you know, snippets of different stories that she might have told or something.

[Tracey Raquel]

First of all, I had to acknowledge my own abuse and then get to a place where I'm comfortable to talk about that with my children.

[Goldie Hunter]

Oh, it's horrifying. I've seen photos of my mom where, you know, she's covered in bruises, you know, on her arms and her legs, and she's 2 or 3 years old. I meet people every day of my life. Oh, I was abused or I had a rough childhood. I had. This happened to me. Not once have I ever heard my mom use that as an excuse.

[Bart]

There was a lot of anger, sadness. Um. Sorry, give me one second to compose myself. The fact that she had to go through that, it is. It's hard to. To think about. I mean, I love my mom to death. And the fact that she ended up in a good place and hunted down justice, fought for justice is. That's, I guess, the best emotion I can bring out of that, is pride that she ended up in a good spot.

[Tracey Raquel]

They both have had their sweet moments showing love and respect for me when it comes to Matthew, I light a.

[Bart]

Candle on his birthday. It's just become, I guess, a ritual in my life, you know, he didn't get to be here very long, so if anything, at least people can remember him.

[Tracey Raquel]

Hunter was in the fifth grade and he had a fifth grade teacher who said, you have to do a report on a famous person. What is the definition of famous? Well, they had to have been in the, in the news for 15 minutes. And so Hunter did his report on me and my case with Matthew. And Hunter's teacher was from Atlanta and was in Atlanta when the case happened. And so Hunter's up there and he didn't say, this is my mom. He's just doing this story about this person, you know, and the teacher's like, I know this, you know. And then at the end, Hunter says, oh, by the way, it's my mom. You know what I mean? And then they're like, what? So I thought that was really sweet.

[Goldie Hunter]

My whole life, my mom had always said Matthew was our guardian angel. There were times in my life where there was darkness or something bad could have happened or should have happened and something, maybe it was an angel, was like a good feeling and maybe it was him, you know, looking over us to the point that I tattooed his name on my shoulder because I, you know, I never met him, but I did feel like he was a big part of my life and watching over me.

[Cindy Crawford]

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[Bart]

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[Nancy Glass]

Tracy Raquel's concern for her baby brother Matthew spilled over into other areas of her life.

[Bart]

My mother was very much give the shirt off your back for another person. That's always who she's been and she'll probably live the rest of her life like that. A lot of who I am stems from her ideals, her moral code. She inspired me from a young age. She taught me how a man should be and how a man should treat a woman. You know, being a good human being, looking out for others.

[Tracey Raquel]

When Hunter was in the second grade, he would take a snack to school and then he would come home and he would be hungry. And then the next day he would say, mom, I need three snacks. I don't understand. And he was like, Joey and Sarah and Michelle don't have snacks. And so, and so, and so and so don't have lunch, so I need snacks. So he would just give it all away. And that was just him.

[Bart]

The one thing that still sticks with me to this day, I guess, like you could say. Her motto, if you see a problem and you, you don't do anything about it, you're part of that problem.

[Goldie Hunter]

There was a time when I was a child, we lived in not a great neighborhood. I remember there was a group of people that were going to assault a man. And I do remember my mom going outside and had the police on the phone. It was a very dangerous situation and nobody else wanted to help. And she was brave and calling and not afraid and she said they had crowbars and things like that. She very well could have been hurt in that moment. And she had no fear, no fear.

[Bart]

She has come a long way in her life and I think that she's very modest. She downplays a lot of things. I think that's the type of person she is. She's gotten to a place now where she's very mindful and tries to think of others.

[Tracey Raquel]

It has only been in the past three or four years that I realized you've got to heal. And the healing part sometimes is the most terrifying thing, but it's the risk, because in order to go through that, you are gonna fall apart and people are not gonna stand by you. And there's people who are gonna say, oh, my gosh, get over. I'm sick of hearing this. Shame is this huge thing that's like a part of everything. Well, I gotta get rid of my own shame.

[Bart]

The bottom line is, anytime that Gracie Raquel has a moment of guilt, the first thing I ask is, what is it that you feel guilty for? You were the victim in this case.

[Nancy Glass]

What has it been like for you to do this podcast?

[Tracey Raquel]

This has been one of the single most important things that I have done for myself and my family. It's really about talking about what happened to me and figuring out who I am and who I want to be. Not based on somebody else's idea or based on some history of pain and trauma, but letting it all go. So for me, this has been a revelation, an epiphany.

[Nancy Glass]

But it hasn't been easy.

[Tracey Raquel]

No, oh, no. But I am freer every day because of it.

[Nancy Glass]

Is there something you want people to know?

[Tracey Raquel]

One of the most profound things that I learned as a very, very young child is you have a choice. And I don't have to be anything you say I am. I don't have to be a failure or loser or not pretty enough or not smart enough or any of those things. I mean, I've had a lot of good people in my life, and over the past three or four years, I have had someone very close to me who has really helped.

[Nancy Glass]

Who.

[Tracey Raquel]

Well, it's you. Can I say that it is?

[Nancy Glass]

I'm honored to hear that. I'm surprised because I find you very inspirational, and I think what we've been for each other is sort of a sounding board on these issues. I think it's been healthy for both of us, and I've certainly, as I said, learned so much from. From you and admire you for your strength. I think we should give Tracy Raquel's husband Bart, the last word.

[Bart]

My wife is part of the reason I fell in love with her. She's a hero to me.

[Nancy Glass]

Stay tuned for Burden of Guilt, the documentary coming in 2024 and airing only on Paramount. If you would like to reach out to the Burden of Guilt team, email [e-mail] that's burdenofguiltpodmail.com if you or someone you know is worried about maltreatment or suspect that a child is being abused or neglected, call the Child Help National Child Abuse Hotline. You can call or text 1-800-4-A CHILD. That's 1-800-422-4453. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review Burden of Guilt. Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank you for listening and also be sure to check us out and follow us on Instagram lasspodcasts. Burden of Guilt is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is hosted and executive produced by me, Nancy Glass, written and produced by Andrea Gunning and Carrie Hartman, also produced by Ben Federman and Associate producer Kristin Melchiori. Our iHeart team is Ally Perry and Jessica Krijnczyk. Special thanks to Tracy Raquel Burns and her husband Bart. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Del Vecchio Burden of Guilt's theme composed by Oliver Baines Music Library provided by Mib Music and for for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bart]

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[Tracey Raquel]

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[Cindy Crawford]

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[Tracey Raquel]

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[Cindy Crawford]

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[Tracey Raquel]

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[Nancy Glass]

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[Bart]

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[Tracey Raquel]

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[Nancy Glass]

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[Tracey Raquel]

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