The Front Gate | EP 3 | Season 2

Summary

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Burden of Guilt, Season 2, Episode 3: "The Front Gate"

Podcast by: iHeartPodcasts & Glass Podcasts
Host: Nancy Glass
Air Date: February 25, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Burden of Guilt peels back the layers of Jermaine Hudson’s life after being sentenced to 99 years in Louisiana’s notorious Angola Prison for a crime he did not commit. Host Nancy Glass explores the direct impact of Jermaine’s conviction on his family, life inside Angola, grave mistakes in the case, and—crucially—the evolution of Bobby Gumpright’s fabricated story, which ultimately landed Jermaine behind bars. The episode is a sobering investigation into the ripple effects of a desperate lie, systemic justice failures, and the search for redemption.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Human Cost of a Lie

• [02:34] Jermaine Hudson reflects on the emotional toll:
  Jermaine: “I had a hard heart towards the situation that I was in. I had a hard heart because I wasn't being heard. I wasn't believed.”
• [03:26] The deepest pain:
  Jermaine: “The most painful part of my existence there was knowing that I was serving a 99 year sentence for something I didn't do.”
• Family devastation is explored through the perspectives of Jermaine’s girlfriend, Kristin, and their daughter, Jermia. Kristin details the emotional and physical impact, including depression and “gaining three sizes in less than three months” ([05:41]).

2. Life at Angola Prison

• [09:01] Jermaine describes Angola's conditions:
  Jermaine: “You got to be by the grace of God to leave out of that place healthy. Everything about Angola is filthy. It's contaminated.”
• [09:53] He recounts widespread deaths and broken systems:
  Jermaine: “A lot of guys died in there. Cancer, stomach cancer, hepatitis. When I say Angola, it's horrible. It's horrible living condition.”
• The episode underscores the Louisiana State Penitentiary’s grim reality, where roughly 85% of inmates are predicted to die within its walls and are typically buried onsite ([10:46]).

3. Appeals and the Judicial System’s Failures

• The defense failed to call Jermaine’s alibi witness, Dewan, due to an unfounded concern for perjury, undermining his case from the start.
• [13:50] Shocking record-keeping errors emerge:
  Jermaine: “They put charges in my record that I never even been arrested for, that never existed. They said that I was found guilty of two first degree murders that was later dropped down to manslaughter.”
• The paperwork error grew into a seemingly insurmountable obstacle. Even though someone later noted “Does not apply to Mr. Hudson” on the record, there was no correction, signature, or date, leaving Jermaine with the shadow of false convictions ([14:05]).

4. Survival and Transformation Inside

• Jermaine turns to faith and education as coping mechanisms.
  [16:34] “Angola was the first place I got baptized.”
  [17:08] “I started educating myself, getting myself into educational vocational programs… When I started to educate myself, everything went to changing. It kept my mind at ease.”
• Despite these efforts, the mental toll at times became overwhelming:
  [17:43] “I used to run the yard a lot, but I just stopped in the middle of the yard and I screamed... I'm like, lord, please send me a sign. This can't be the end of my life.”

5. The Lie Unravels: Bobby Gumpright’s Confession

• [19:04 – 28:35] The host and Bobby reconstruct what actually happened:
  • Bobby admits no robbery occurred; he spent all his bartending earnings on cocaine and invented the mugging story to avoid scrutiny from his father.
  • [24:14] Bobby: “Met a guy who did and dealt cocaine and so tried it and immediately was an addict… I was just taking every dollar I had and buying what I could.”
  • He developed the story carefully—choosing a plausible-sounding scenario, discarding his own chain to fit the narrative, and acting fearful for authenticity.
  • [27:28] “So I took my chain and I actually threw it away. Well, why would he leave me with a necklace if he’s really robbing me?”
• When brought a photo lineup, Bobby chose Jermaine out of unfamiliar faces simply to keep up his facade: [32:05] Bobby: “I pointed at one and I said, he looks familiar. I don't know why I pointed at him… As soon as I said, that's him, that looks like him, they said, that's who we thought it was.”
• Bobby was driven by a complicated desire for validation and attention, not hatred or intent to harm a stranger: [33:25] “I liked it when people felt sorry for me, felt like I was getting love when people felt sorry for me.”

6. The Impact of Testimony and Systemic Failures

• Through courtroom dramatizations, the podcast demonstrates how Bobby’s emotional, detailed, and relatable testimony convinced the jury, even as discrepancies (like Jermaine’s 12 gold teeth and a scar never mentioned in police reports) went unchallenged ([39:26 – 43:06]).
• Bobby’s Coast Guard experience was exaggerated to increase credibility:
  [41:11] “I'm not a very big gun person, but as close as I could say, it resembled a nine millimeter… I was in the Coast Guard, and I used a 9 millimeter while I was in the Coast Guard.”
• Jurors recalled the trial as “very open and shut” and were shocked to learn after the fact that Jermaine received 99 years ([44:39]).

7. Reflections, Regret, and a Turning Point

• [47:36] Bobby admits to checking up on Jermaine in Angola over the years out of guilt, haunted by his actions:
  Bobby: “Over the years it would come into my mind and I would look him up online... I was a monster. I took someone’s life away.”
• The stage is set for Bobby’s eventual efforts to correct his wrong on the next episode.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Jermaine Hudson ([07:25]): “I was a young kid, but I was a father.”
• Bobby Gumpright ([28:35]): “I wasn't scared of what had just happened. I was scared that people would find out that I was lying.”
• Nancy Glass ([43:41]): “Are you 100% certain that this man right here put a gun to your head and robbed you?”
  Bobby: “110% certain.”
• Bobby ([47:36]): “I was a monster. I took someone's life away.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:34 — Jermaine on becoming emotionally withdrawn in prison
• 05:24 – 07:25 — Kristin and Jermia on coping with Jermaine’s incarceration
• 09:01 — Depiction of Angola’s appalling conditions
• 13:50 — Revelations about false murder convictions in Jermaine’s record
• 16:34 — Jermaine’s spiritual and educational self-reinvention in prison
• 19:04 – 29:27 — Bobby’s confession: why and how he lied
• 39:26 – 43:06 — Scrutiny of Bobby’s trial testimony and its effect on the jury
• 44:39 — Jurors’ recollections and shock at the sentence
• 47:36 — Bobby’s haunting guilt and the foreshadowing of his attempt to confess

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Episode’s Tone

The narrative is empathetic, confessional, and investigative. Nancy Glass employs a calm yet incisive approach—balancing deeply personal testimony from Jermaine, Bobby, and their families with analysis of court documents and systemic issues. Bobby’s segments are raw with remorse; Jermaine’s, heavy with dignified pain.

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In summary:
This episode unpacks the devastating, far-reaching consequences of a single, desperate lie and a justice system ill-equipped to catch it, setting the stage for the episodes to follow, where truth and accountability begin their long-awaited reckoning.

Transcript

[A]

This is an I heart podcast, guaranteed human. Hi, it's Jill Interestine, host of the Spirit Daughter Podcast where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today I'm talking with my dear friend Krista Williams. It can change you in the best way possible. Dance with the change, Dance with the breakdowns. The embodiment of Pisces intuition with Capricorn power moves just so. I'm like delusionally proud of my chart. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your podcast.

[B]

This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

[A]

In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world.

[B]

The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story

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of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes

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opened its vault of secrets.

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Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts on the Adventures of Curiosity Cove podcast. When Peanut Butter disappears from school, Ella, Scout and Layla launch a full detective mission. Their search leads them back in time to meet a brilliant inventor whose curiosity changed the world in this Black History Month adventure. Ask questions Thinking creatively can lead to amazing discoveries. Listen to Adventures of Curiosity Cove every Monday from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. What if mind control is real?

[B]

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

[A]

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

[B]

When you look at your car, you're

[A]

gonna become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions. Sexually aroused? Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious mind games. A new podcast, exploring nlp, AKA neuro linguistic programming. Is it a self help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. When Jermaine Hudson talks about his time spent in Angola, he doesn't sulk about what happened behind bars, but he mourns what his life came to be. All because of a lie.

[C]

I had a hard heart towards the situation that I was in. I had a hard heart because I wasn't being heard. I wasn't believed.

[A]

He entered prison as a young father with so much life ahead of him. Once a 99 year sentence sealed his life away, he. He had to focus on survival. And survival meant shutting down, letting go of what mattered most.

[C]

It was like out of sight, out of mind. I never called home complaining about anything. I never cried about anything. I took it in stride.

[A]

Taking it in stride was how Jermaine got around the pain. But no matter how much he braved his circumstances, there was no outrunning his reality.

[C]

The most painful part of my existence there was knowing that I was serving a 99 year sentence for something that I didn't do.

[A]

I'm Nancy Glass. This is season two of Burden of Guilt, episode three, the Front Gate. Earlier this season, we told you that an enormous lie put a young man, Jermaine Hudson, in prison for 99 years. In this episode, we're going to break it down. Jermaine's 99 year sentence was in one of the worst prisons in the United States, Louisiana's Angola Prison. We obtained the transcript of his sentencing. The judge's words are read by a voice actor.

[C]

Mr. Hudson, you've been found guilty by

[B]

a jury of the offense of armed robbery. And considering Mr. Hudson's prior criminal history,

[A]

it is the sentence of this court

[C]

that you serve 99 years in the

[B]

Department of Corrections at hard labor without the benefit of probation, parole or suspension of sentence.

[A]

Jermaine was let out of the courtroom while his girlfriend Kristin watched in shocked silence. Those 99 years were also a life sentence for Kristin and their daughter. They just took my life away from

[C]

me just like that. I was numb after that.

[A]

When Jermaine was first sentenced, Kristen held out hope that he would win his case on appeal and come back home. She missed him every day. His touch, the comfort, the friend, the

[C]

respect and the protection. Like he made me feel loved, seen beautiful, and he gave me wisdom.

[A]

He taught me a lot.

[C]

He taught me a lot.

[A]

I went into depression after he left. I gained a lot.

[C]

I gained like three sizes in less than three months.

[A]

And as time passed, Jermaine missed milestones in his daughter's life. Him not being there, missing out on a lot, my first steps. And then she just remind me of him every single day.

[C]

I just try to remind her when

[A]

she got old enough to understand that, you know, she had a great father. For Kristin, visiting Jermaine in Angola was heartbreaking. Every time she did it, she would leave emotionally destroyed.

[C]

It was just hard to go see him knowing he wasn't coming home. I had to block him out or I think it would have just Been harder for me to do it.

[A]

Jermaine wanted Kristin to move on while he was in prison. He wanted her to find happiness and focus on raising their daughter.

[C]

I told her to go on with her life because there is nothing I can do for you. I am not about to be a burden on you. All I ask you to do is make a promise to me. Make a promise to me that you will not allow my daughter to get in them streets. Keep her in school and raise her the right way and keep me in touch with her. That's all I ask you to do. I was a father. I was a young kid, but I was a father.

[A]

His daughter Jermia grew up knowing her father mostly as a story.

[C]

I knew I had a dad. I knew he was an active dad.

[A]

They let me know what kind of man he was, how he always had me everywhere he went. He just loved his daughter.

[C]

So they. They just always kept his name alive. They just always kept his memories alive.

[A]

Whenever she did visit him in Angola with her mom, it just made her miss him more. Like, I'm about to cry because I hate talking about it because it still. It still affects me.

[C]

And sometimes I don't realize it still affect me. To the date,

[A]

Jermaine says the pain of being separated from his child with no way to get to her was almost too unbearable.

[C]

I tried to keep my mind off of society. I tried to do my best to not worry about what's going on on the outside world because that can play a big factor into your mental state.

[A]

If Jermaine let himself think about his family, he would go to a very dark place. So instead, he focused on something that felt within his control. Surviving Angola.

[C]

You got to be by the grace of God to leave out of that place healthy. Everything about Angola is filthy. It's contaminated.

[A]

This isn't just Jermaine's opinion. Angola, also known as the Louisiana State Penitentiary, has a long, well documented history of disgusting living conditions, legal challenges over inadequate medical care, and a high number of deaths compared with other US Prisons.

[C]

The spoon was like somebody been chewing on them. The plates got cracks in them, old food in them. They're not properly washing it. When I really realized that, I didn't go back to that kitchen no more.

[A]

According to lawsuits filed on behalf of inmates, many of these issues, such as delayed or denied medical treatment, have been described in court rulings and independent reporting as preventable. The results of systemic failures at Angola.

[C]

A lot of guys died in there. Cancer, stomach cancer, hepatitis. When I say Angola, it's horrible. It's horrible living condition.

[A]

There are only two ways out of Angola. Out the front, meaning release or transfer, or by being wheeled to the morgue and usually buried on site. One former warden said, we bury more people than leave out the front gate.

[C]

I came here to do one thing and one thing only. To leave this place the same way I came out that front gate.

[A]

But death is a constant presence at the prison. Week after week, Jermaine watched friends and people who kept him sane take their last breath.

[C]

They got a prediction rate that 85% of the inmates is going to die there. And they have like six, seven cemeteries in that place for you to die there. And no one's come and get your body. That means you get buried on prison ground. So that means you're not free. Your soul is still incarcerated.

[A]

After Jermaine's trial in 2000, he held some hope that his 99 year sentence would be overturned. His attorney, public defender Don Donnelly, filed a motion for an appeal. Jermaine couldn't afford a private attorney, so a nonprofit called the Louisiana Appellate Project took over his representation. The appeal was based on three issues where Jermaine and his appellate lawyer felt the court had erred. The first was Donnelly never put Jermaine's alibi witness on the stand. Remember what Kristen's sister Duan said in the last episode? He said, I couldn't testify, and I kept asking him why, and he couldn't give me a valid reason why. Donnelly didn't even meet Jermaine's alibi witness, Dewan, until the morning of the trial and then refused to call her, telling the judge he knew the alibi witness would lie on the stand. The second was a discrepancy in Bobby's ID of Jermaine. Bobby claimed he got a good look at Jermaine's face up close. Here's some of the court testimony read by voice actors.

[C]

From the time you pull up to

[A]

this person who asked you when the

[C]

bus passes until you're no longer looking at his face.

[A]

How long is this period? A minute?

[C]

Two minutes.

[A]

A minute or two minutes you're focusing on his face? Yes, sir. Considering that this was an armed robbery, that's a lot of time. Enough time to notice that Jermaine had some distinguishing features, like 12 gold teeth and a noticeable scar under his eye that he's had since he was a kid. But Bobby didn't mention any of these features when he described the attack to the police. And that discrepancy never came up at trial. And finally, the Appeal argued the 99 year sentence was grossly disproportionate to the crime of stealing $100 at gunpoint. While Bobby was afraid and even traumatized, he wasn't hurt. Despite those arguments, Jermaine's appeal was denied. And after that, no one would take on his appeal again. There's one more thing about Jermaine's appeal that we want to share with you. It was a shocking mistake in the records that we saw with our own eyes. And that mistake may have had devastating consequences.

[C]

They put charges in my record that I never even been arrested for, that never existed. They said that I was found guilty of two first degree murders that was later dropped down to manslaughter.

[A]

Jermaine is right. We got a copy of this record. A miraculous feat considering how many in this case were destroyed or missing. But on those documents we found we saw two counts of first degree murder drop down to a plea bargain for manslaughter. But here's the thing that didn't happen. The charges are printed on the page in black and white, but at some point, someone circled them in pen and handwrote on the margins. Does not apply to Mr. Hudson. I don't know about you, but this just blows my mind. How is it possible that someone accidentally has two manslaughter convictions on their record? We wondered, not only how was this mistake made, but when was it caught? Did the appeals court know this was wrong? Why not write a separate memo retracting that information instead? There's a handwritten note on the side of the page. Does not apply to Mr. Hudson. No date, no signature, no explanation. If Jermaine had actually killed two people, a 99 year sentence might begin to make sense. But he hadn't. Those convictions didn't exist.

[C]

I know that was one of the biggest reason why I couldn't really get my case reviewed, because they had this in my records.

[A]

We contacted both prosecutors in Jermaine's case. Neither was willing to talk to us. It's difficult to imagine how a mistake this consequential could have been made.

[C]

I tried my best to get those answers. I never got those answers.

[A]

After his appeal was denied, Jermaine was determined not to give in to despair. His goal was to stay alive.

[C]

My first three to four years there, I was stressing a lot. You know, I was frustrated and I found myself getting into a lot of trouble. But then I calmed myself down. I say, you not gonna go home like that. You gonna either end up crazy. Anybody bag, you got to swap it up. So I started going to church. Angola was the first place I got baptized.

[A]

He was actually baptized twice.

[C]

The first time I got baptized, I got out that water and I told the pastor, I said, I don't feel this. I said, give me a year. I still got some things I need to figure out, man. He said, okay. Came back there next year and got baptized. I said, okay, now I'm ready.

[A]

Jermaine had a goal in sight. And with that clarity, he changed how he approached life inside prison.

[C]

I started educating myself, getting myself an educational vocational programs, generator school, welding school. I've learned how to rebuild generators. I learned how to do plumbing. I've learned H Vac. When I started to educate myself, everything went to changing. It kept my mind at ease.

[A]

But as hard as Jermaine tried, there would be moments where the reality of his situation was just overwhelming.

[C]

I used to run the yard a lot, but I just stopped in the middle of the yard and I screamed. I'm like, ah. What is going on? I'm like, lord, please send me a sign. This can't be the end of my life. This can't be my final destination. This can't be. As the years start passing, I'm like, lord, I didn't do this. And you know I didn't do this. What could I possibly have done to deserve this? I know I didn't do anything that heinous to deserve this kind of pain.

[A]

He hadn't done anything to deserve the sentence in this notoriously harsh prison.

[C]

I lost my life for nothing.

[A]

While Jermaine was in prison in Angola, he knew he was innocent. The law got the wrong guy. The person behind the crime, the real perpetrator, was still out there. What he didn't know was that everything was a fabrication, a lie. A story concocted by a young man named Bobby Gumprite.

[B]

I thought that it sounded logical that I got held up, that somebody stopped me and took my money. And I felt like that was a plausible story, you know, I had already been lying for so long. What do you do when the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me is where culture meets the soul. A place for real conversation. Each episode, I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks. And we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff. Identity. When you don't recognize yourself anymore.

[A]

Loss.

[B]

That changes you purpose. When success isn't enough Peace when your mind won't slow down, Faith when it's complicated. Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to if youf Can Hear me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A]

China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside.

[B]

This is Special Agent Riegel, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

[A]

This MSS officer has no idea the US Government is onto him, but the

[B]

FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast?

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I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer.

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No doubt, no question of his life. And that's a unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable.

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This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to the 6th Bureau on the

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iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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In 2023, a story gripped the UK evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict. A villain, a nurse named Lucy Letby.

[B]

Lucy Letby has been found guilty.

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But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole

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picture, the case collapses.

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I'm Amanda Knox and in the new podcast the Case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was. No voicing of any skepticism or doubt.

[C]

It'll cause so much harm at every

[A]

single level of the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Joe Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast where we talk about astrology and natal charts and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives and I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius like are misunderstood. A Sun and Venus and Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity and real life, this episode is a must. Listen Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast. In the first episode of this podcast, we heard Bobby Gumprite's story of how he was robbed at gunpoint. He told us what happened the same way he told his parents and the police. But that isn't what actually happened that night. That was a story he made up. So I asked him what really happened in March of 1999 when he was bartending at Applebee's restaurant. Bobby, we know you weren't robbed the night you said Jermaine held you up at gunpoint. What happened to the money you made bartending, the money you claim was stolen?

[B]

Met a guy who did and dealt cocaine and so tried it and immediately was an addict. I don't even think it was a week and I needed it like I wanted it. I was just taking every dollar I had and buying what I could.

[A]

So you're going home with no money. Why did that matter so much?

[B]

My dad had a habit of asking how my money was, how much money did I have? You know, that was just a normal question. I mean, he's trying to figure out if I'm taking care of my finances. You know, I'm 18, still living at home with my parents, and he's trying to make sure that I was stewarding things properly.

[A]

Okay, but why come up with that kind of lie?

[B]

Because I know the question that's going to come. I know that the question is going to be, how much money do you have? How much did you make this week? And I didn't have an answer, right, because it was all gone. And like I'm high on cocaine at this moment when I'm riding home and my mind is racing and I'm just trying to figure out what I can say to get through the night without him finding out that's where my money's going.

[A]

So take me back. What was your thought process? How are you trying to pull this off?

[B]

You know, we lived on the West Bank. The west bank had a reputation for not being the safest sometimes. So I thought that it sounded logical, that I got held up, that somebody stopped me and took my money. And I felt like that was a plausible story. You know, I had already been lying for so long, I knew what sounded reasonable and what wouldn't sound reasonable. Right. Like back to when I was 8 years old and the cop walks me out there and tells me, this is why your story isn't reasonable.

[A]

Wow. So you really thought about that?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. I spent my time figuring out, okay, what can they ask? How can this not make sense? So I'm trying to figure out the best way to tell the lie, you know, that that was what I did. I remember stopping on my bike, and I remember thinking, okay, if somebody stopped me right here, why. Why would I stop? Number one, right? Why would I just stop for some random person? And he asked me what time it was, so that's why I stopped. And as I'm looking at my watch, that's when he pulls the gun

[C]

and

[B]

he rips my chain off my neck and tells me to lie down on the ground and rifles through my bag and takes my money and tells me not to get up until he's gone. I just rolled it through my mind and said, that sounds plausible.

[A]

What else did you do to make your story more believable?

[B]

So I took my chain and I actually threw it away. Well, why would he leave me with a necklace if he's really robbing me? Why would he leave me with a chain on my neck, even though the chain was, like, not an expensive chain? It wasn't a chain that somebody would really rob you of. It was a St. Christopher medallion with a very small, you know, silver chain. But to me, I was like, well, that makes it more plausible that he took my chain. So now that the story's developed, now I have to go home and get into character and act scared, which I was. You know, I was scared to death that somebody would find out the truth and, you know, find out that I was lying. So it was kind of easy to fall into that frame of mind and acting like that, because I was scared. I wasn't scared of what had just happened. I was scared that people would find out that I was lying. But the lie was the only thing that was going to protect me from them finding out the truth, which was even scarier.

[A]

The truth being you were addicted to drugs. That's what you spent all your money on, Right? But you could have said that you just lost your money. You could have said you didn't make any good tips. Right?

[B]

I could have said That I could have said a hundred different things. But I. I settled on the robbery story, and I can't tell you why that made the most sense to me at the time. And once I grasped it, once I had it in my mind, it was locked in there. And then as soon as I told it, now it's done.

[A]

How did your parents react? What did your dad do?

[B]

He immediately calls the police, which I don't. I don't know if in my mind I even got to that point where I saw him doing that. But I was high. It wasn't rational thought. So he called the police. Police showed up. I gave him a very vague, nondescript description. You know, in my mind, could have been anybody.

[A]

What description did you give to the police?

[B]

A guy about my height, black. I think I gave him a clothing description. Maybe a white T shirt and jeans or something like that. It was. It was very, very basic. I think he asked me if I ever saw him again, if I would know if it was him. And I. I think I did say yes, but at that point, I was just trying to stay above water with the lie. Like anything he asked me, it was just real quick, you know, thought process of, okay, what's the best answer here? So he took his report and left. It was super quick, like, wow, you've

[A]

made up this big story. You filed a report. What did you do after the police left?

[B]

I went to my room. I didn't go to bed. I mean, at that point, the adrenaline is just out of control. But I just went back to my life, you know, I just carried on like nothing had happened. And, okay, got away with that one. I guess I need to be more careful and save some of my money and not spend it all on drugs. I continued working at Applebee's. I thought it was gone and done with. I didn't think twice about it after that. And I was like, okay, nothing's ever going to come of it. A couple months later, I'm in the back of the restaurant, and somebody comes in and says, hey, there's two New Orleans city detectives out there wanting to talk to you.

[A]

The detectives had six pictures of black men who fit the basic description Bobby gave police. In reality, Bobby hadn't seen any of these men before.

[B]

They show me this lineup, and they said, do you recognize any of these men as the one who robbed you?

[A]

So here's where Bobby could have said, no. He could have come clean, but he didn't.

[B]

I pointed at one and I said, he looks familiar. I don't know Why I pointed at him, I still to this day can't tell you why I decided to point at anybody on that piece of paper. But as soon as I said, that's him, that looks like him, they said, that's who we thought it was. And as soon as they said that, it felt like the rest of it made sense for me because then I felt like I was doing something that was supposed to be done. I had convinced myself at that moment that this was a bad guy because they told me that they had been trying to get him and they weren't able to. And, you know, college dropout, military dropout, living in my parents house, you know, drug addict. My life was not very good at that time. And I just, I saw maybe a glimpse of, hey, I can be somebody.

[A]

The idea of helping the police made him feel important. And he liked the attention he got when he told people he had been robbed at gunpoint.

[B]

I liked it when people felt sorry for me, felt like I was getting love when people felt sorry for me.

[A]

When Bobby pointed at a photo in the lineup, he wasn't thinking about what would happen to the man he identified.

[B]

I didn't think this is a human being just living his life.

[A]

After Bobby identified Jermaine Hudson, he was arrested during a traffic stop. And then the police had one more important question for Bobby.

[B]

They said, we haven't had anybody that would testify. Would you be willing to testify? I never had one thought of how much time he would get or what would happen.

[A]

The trial was Bobby's last chance to stop the lie. Maybe say he made a mistake, but he didn't do that. He would take the stand to tell his story to a jury. And he decided to double down and make himself the perfect victim. Foreign.

[B]

What do you do when the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me is where culture meets the soul. A place for real conversation. Each episode, I sit down with people from all walks of life. Celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks. And we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff. Identity. When you don't recognize yourself anymore.

[A]

Loss.

[B]

That changes you. Purpose. When success isn't enough. Peace when your mind won't slow down. Faith. When it's complicated. Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to if youf Can Hear me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A]

China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside.

[B]

This is Special Agent Riegel, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

[A]

This MSS officer has no idea the US Government is onto him. But the FBI has his chats, texts,

[B]

emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the sixth Bureau podcast.

[C]

I now have several terabytes of an

[B]

MSS officer, no doubt, no question of his life. And that's a unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable.

[A]

This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to the 6th Bureau on the

[B]

iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A]

Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast where we talk about astrology, natal charts and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're gonna have a terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives and I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius like are Misunderstood A Sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms and different houses in different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity and real life. This episode is a must. Listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your podcast. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict. A villain, a nurse named Lucy Letby.

[B]

Lucy Letby has been found guilty.

[A]

But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox and in the new podcast Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was. No voicing of any skepticism or doubt.

[C]

It'll cause so much harm at every

[A]

single level of the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Reading the trial transcript is illuminating. You can see why Bobby Gumpright was so believable. He was young, emotional, and detailed on the stand, and everyone from the prosecutors to the jury hung on every word. But now, knowing Bobby lied about the whole thing, I want to revisit his testimony. Once you know the truth, it all looks different, calculated even. Let's start with the prosecutor's direct examination of Bobby. The prosecutor asked, when Jermaine pulled out the gun, what happened? He had the gun up to my face. I mean, with some profanity. He basically just told me not to look at him.

[C]

And then.

[A]

And then he ripped my. I had a St. Christopher medallion that I had since I was born, and he ripped it off my neck. Just popped the chain and told me to get off the bike. Bobby doesn't use profanity when recalling the sequence of the crime, implying he doesn't approve of bad language. He can't even repeat those words in court. His reaction makes him appear respectable, upright. Then he explains that Germain ripped off his St. Christopher medallion, a religious symbol that he's had since he was a baby. The truth is that when or how he received the medallion isn't relevant to the crime. It just makes his story better. It's like Germain ripped off a piece of his childhood and a piece of the church in a very religious part of the country. Let me give you another example. The prosecutor asked Bobby, what went through your head when he put the gun up to your face? The past 19 years of my life. My dad. I mean, just his entire life flashed before him. He was a victim of a crime that could have cut his life short even before it really began. And he references his father, indicating that he's a loving and loyal son. There was another opportunity Bobby used to convey his credibility. It was subtle, maybe even unconscious. During the cross examination, Public defender Don Donnelly asked Bobby to describe the gun used in the robbery.

[B]

I'm not very.

[A]

I'm not a very big gun person, but as close as I could say, it resembled a nine millimeter. You see, I was in the Coast Guard, and I used a 9 millimeter while I was in the Coast Guard. As you heard in episode one, Bobby was in the Coast Guard for less than a year. He was discharged due to unsuitability for military life. But in his answer, he communicated that he served in the armed forces. And we have reverence for people who serve. It elevates them. Then came the charm. When the prosecutor asked Bobby about the photo lineup. Bobby had picked Jermaine, out of six photos, as the perpetrator. But two months had passed between the robbery and the time police officers brought the photo lineup for Bobby to view. So the prosecutor asked, Bobby, you said you bartended. Would you consider yourself good with names and faces?

[B]

That's my business.

[A]

That's how I make money.

[B]

I make money by remembering people's first

[A]

names and their faces. Basically, we want to give the impression you want to be their friend. The better friend you are, the better tips you get. It's a subtle nod to Bobby's work ethic. He's out at Applebee's hustling, working hard and memorizing faces to make a buck. Who wouldn't like that guy? Never mind that Bobby failed to describe Jermaine's distinctive scar or 12 gold teeth in his original statement to police. But Bobby never mentioned seeing either of those features. And that discrepancy in the identification was never brought up by Jermaine's defense. Bobby told us he'd chosen Jermaine's photo out of the lineup because of the scar on Jermaine's face. He used it as a way to remember who he identified.

[B]

I remember that the one thing that kind of drew me to Jermaine was that he has a scar underneath his right eye. And that was kind of different. I don't know. It was just something that kind of stood out to me.

[A]

Then there was pointing out Jermaine in the courtroom. The prosecutor asked Bobby if this was the same man that he identified in the lineup, the man who robbed him. Bobby confirmed it was the man sitting at the defense table, Jermaine Hudson. Are you 100% certain that this man

[B]

right here put a gun to your

[A]

head and robbed you? 110% certain. He was so sure. More than 100%. I wanted to hear from the jurors in this case. One of our producers, Jade Abdul Malik, was able to reach some of the jurors by phone. Now, Jade, you said you were able to get ahold of some jurors. What happened there? Nancy, we're talking about a trial that was over 25 years ago. Some jurors had passed away.

[C]

Some didn't even remember the trial, and

[A]

others didn't want to speak. But I did talk with a few. What was the overwhelming response? What did they Want to say we had to do a lot of memory jogging and a lot of them didn't really remember much from being a juror on this case.

[C]

They just remembered this case being very

[A]

open and shut and the defendant was obviously guilty. Okay. Bobby was incredibly convincing. He was tearful, emotional, and really shaken up on the stand. They believed him, at least for the 10 jurors who voted guilty. Right, right. It was a 10 to 2 verdict. And I don't think it's widely known that we had non unanimous juries in some states. So for the two who voted not guilty, did you get any insight as to why they felt differently since most jurors thought Bobby was telling the truth? Yeah. So the recollection I heard was it didn't make sense that someone would stop

[C]

on a bike late at night the

[A]

way he did to answer a question about the bus. That just seemed suspect. Did the jury know that Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years in prison? No. None of the jurors I spoke to said they had any idea Jermaine would be sentenced 99 years for armed robbery. When I told them that, it was a complete, total surprise. After the verdict, the jurors were discharged from the courtroom. Jermaine was led away in handcuffs to await his sentencing hearing, and Bobby walked out, Mission accomplished.

[B]

So I was there as an actor to tell the story that I needed to tell to make people approve of what I was doing and feel sorry for me. That was a big part, you know, and the validation that I needed. Everybody around me was just playing a part in my world.

[A]

One juror told our producer, Jade, that Bob became of aware over and personally thanked him for finding Jermaine guilty. Bobby doesn't remember that interaction and he didn't go to the sentencing hearing where Jermaine received a 99 year sentence. Bobby, when you heard what the verdict was and the sentence was, what did you think?

[B]

I thought he must have been really bad. He must have had a lot of stuff in his background. 99 years. I couldn't have imagined that. I still, you know, even then I couldn't wrap my mind around 99 years.

[A]

As he got older, Bobby found it harder to convince himself that he had done a good thing. It became more difficult to block out the thoughts of Jermaine languishing in prison.

[B]

You know, over the years it would come into my mind and I would look him up online. I knew he had gone to Angola. So I was like, well, I wonder if he's still there. I wonder maybe he got out. Maybe they let him out. So I would look every once in a while and he was still there. I was a monster. I took somebody's life away.

[A]

On the next episode of Burden of Guilt, Bobby sets out to right his wrong.

[B]

I just told him that I was going to tell the truth and that I was pretty sure that it was going to be nationwide news. You might see my picture on the front page of the New York Times as this horrible monster, but I gotta do this.

[A]

And Louisiana comes to Jermaine with an offer he can't refuse.

[C]

I was actually going to plead guilty to that crime because the laws hadn't changed.

[A]

Thank you for listening. If you're enjoying Burden of Guilt, subscribe rate and review the series with five stars. Yay. It helps other people find our show. So are you curious about what the people involved in this look like? Do you want to hear bonus content? Just check out our Instagram account glasspodcast, where we recap each episode with show notes that include people, places, and even court records. You can reach out to the Burden of guilt [e-mail] that's burdenofgiltpodmail.com Burden of Guilt is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in part partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The series is executive produced and hosted by me, Nancy Glass. This episode was written and produced by Carrie Hartman, also produced by Ben Federman and Andrea Gunning. Our story editor is Monique Laborde. Our Associate producer is Jade Abdul Malik. Our production manager is Kristen Melcuri. Our iHeart team is Ally Perry and Jessica Krynczyk. Thank you to our voice actors, Brian Balthazar, Todd Ganz, Trae Morgan, and Ben Reit. Audio editing by Dean Welsh and Zach Prout, with additional editing and mastering by Anna MacLaine. The burden of Guilt theme is composed by Oliver Baines Music Library, provided by mib Music, and we want to give our special thanks to Jermaine Hudson and Bobby Gumpright. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app or Apple Podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.