The Last Surrender | EP 6 | Season 2

Summary

Podcast Summary: Burden of Guilt

Season 2, Episode 6: "The Last Surrender"
Host: Nancy Glass
Release Date: March 18, 2026

Episode Overview

This gripping episode explores the aftermath of Bobby Gumprite’s recantation of his false testimony, which kept Jermaine Hudson imprisoned for over two decades for a crime he did not commit. Host Nancy Glass navigates the intricate journey of both men as they grapple with addiction, accountability, justice, and ultimately, a remarkable act of forgiveness. The episode follows Bobby’s spiraling path after his confession, Jermaine’s fight for compensation, and the emotional courtroom confrontation where forgiveness defies all expectations.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Bobby’s Immediate Reaction to Jermaine’s Release

• Relief and Illusion of Redemption (02:11–04:08)
  • Bobby felt an immense weight lifted after Jermaine’s release, believing confessing meant his demons were gone.
  • Quote:

    "After I heard Jermaine was set free, I just breathed a sigh of relief. I thought that the thing that was holding me back all my life had been taken care of."
    — Bobby Gumprite (02:11)

  • Despite brief optimism, those around him (like Jeremy Smith, rehab program director) recognized his struggles ran deeper.
  • [04:31] Jeremy Smith (paraphrased): “He removed the glaring issue and thought he didn’t have to look at any other ones. The confession created an illusion that all was settled.”

2. Bobby’s Relapse and Crime Spree

• Return to Addiction and Crime (05:09–10:59)
  • Bobby relapsed into drugs, alcohol, and petty theft, feeling as if criminal behavior was inevitable.
  • Quote:

    "I went back to New Orleans and I fell into drinking...back to using. As soon as that happened, I went to thinking that stealing was a way to get by. It's almost like I wanted to go to jail."
    — Bobby Gumprite (05:09)

  • He stole a food trailer, then copper wire and an 18-wheeler, all while under the influence.
  • The recklessness and danger of his actions are emphasized.
  • Quote:

    "It's a miracle I didn't kill somebody or myself when I drove that thing."
    — Bobby Gumprite (09:54)

  • Culminates in spiritual exhaustion and surrender:

    "I can't run anymore. I'm done. I'm tired. I can't do it anymore. And I just surrendered."
    — Bobby Gumprite (10:23)

3. Arrest, Withdrawal, and Sobriety

• Jail as a Turning Point (11:01–12:55)
  • Bobby was arrested but felt relief and a sense of just punishment.
  • Quote:

    "I always thought that I needed to be punished in some way."
    — Bobby Gumprite (11:51)

  • Strikingly, Bobby claims a spiritual experience made his withdrawal symptoms disappear:

    "The moment that I put my hands in the air and surrendered to God was the moment that every desire and withdrawal symptom and everything just went away."
    — Bobby Gumprite (12:26)

  • He never craved drugs, alcohol, or cigarettes again.

4. Jermaine’s Lawsuit and Efforts for Compensation

• A New Fight for Justice (16:34–19:29)
  • Jermaine, now free, sues Louisiana for wrongful imprisonment, with the Promise of Justice Initiative’s support.
  • Attorney Colin Rheingold explains the standard:

    "In order to get paid by Louisiana...you have to convince a judge that not only was there something wrong...but also that you're innocent."
    — Colin Rheingold (17:20)

  • Bobby’s testimony becomes critical evidence.

5. Skepticism & Scrutiny of Bobby’s Recantation

• Attorney General’s Investigation (18:30–21:14)
  • The state is suspicious, probing for collusion:

    "They kept trying to say, so you never knew him before this happened?...There was never a connection."
    — Bobby Gumprite (19:29)

  • Emily Ma (DA’s office) describes how background checks and details lent Bobby credibility.

    "There were indications of credibility."
    — Emily Ma (20:31)

6. Bobby’s New Incarceration Experience

• Comparison to Jermaine’s Time (22:12–23:21)
  • Bobby acknowledges his sentence is lighter and less physically demanding than Jermaine’s hard labor at Angola.

    "What Jermaine was going through for all those years in his cell, I only got a small taste of it."
    — Bobby Gumprite (23:21)

  • He finds purpose in starting an AA program inside jail.

7. The Emotional Courtroom Confrontation

• Recantation and Heartfelt Apology (24:07–27:08)

  • Bobby is called to recant his testimony live before Jermaine. His remorse moves him to tears.

    "And I didn't. I couldn't. I think I tried to say I'm sorry and I just broke down."
    — Bobby Gumprite (27:15)

• Jermaine’s Act of Forgiveness and Its Impact (31:07–34:46)

  • Jermaine stands and directly forgives Bobby in court.

    "I said, I forgive you. I understand what you are going through, but I forgive you. I don't hold no hate against you. I don't hold no bitterness against you. I say, I honestly, genuinely forgive you."
    — Jermaine Hudson (31:26)

  • He urges Bobby to move forward and live well.

    "Those drugs are going to kill you, man. Get your life back on track. I respect you even more because you came forward...you can't get those 22 years back...but you got to move forward now because it's over."
    — Jermaine Hudson (32:16)

  • Bobby is overwhelmed:

    "He said, I forgive you. He said, all I want is for you to live a good life...He didn't have to do that...He showed me a level of love and of grace that I would have never expected...It gave me an opportunity to at least start to try and forgive myself for what I had done."
    — Bobby Gumprite (33:12)

• Impact on Others

  • The moment is deeply moving for all present.

    "That moment in that hearing just showed me what's possible...For those two men to recognize each other's humanity...it's a little bit helpful. We can all learn a lot from Jermaine."
    — Colin Rheingold (35:01)

8. Reparations Awarded and Reflections on Justice

• Judge and Lawyer Responses (35:40–36:29)
  • The judge apologizes on behalf of the state and orders compensation.

    "She ordered that Jermaine get compensation from the state."
    — Nancy Glass (36:07)

  • Louisiana’s cap: $40,000/year, max 10 years—Jermaine receives $400,000 for 22 years lost.

    "There's no right amount of money. If you're wrongfully in prison for a day, what's the right amount of money?"
    — Colin Rheingold (36:29)

9. Aftermath: Forgiveness and Moving Forward

• Bobby’s Continued Reflection and Hope (37:01–39:01)
  • Bobby feels freed by Jermaine’s forgiveness and aspires to live better.

    "With Jermaine's blessing...It was another nod from God saying, I forgive you."
    — Bobby Gumprite (37:01)

  • He proposes writing their story together and reaches out through Jermaine’s lawyer.

    "Our story is compelling. It's full of forgiveness...I should write something down and put it into a book. But I don't want to proceed if Jermaine doesn't agree to it."
    — Bobby Gumprite (37:49)

  • Jermaine responds warmly, reaffirming his forgiveness and encouraging a shared purpose:

    "Even though I told you in the courtroom that I forgive you, now you're really hearing it from me, from my voice, one on one. I said, I forgive you, man. I said, I really honestly in my heart forgive you. I said, so let's do something positive. Let's put our story out there to influence others that may have done this. Let's change the narrative."
    — Jermaine Hudson (39:01)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Bobby, on his own cycle:

  "It's almost like I wanted to go to jail." (05:09)

• Jermaine, on forgiveness:

  "I forgive you. I don't hold no hate against you. I don't hold no bitterness against you. I say, I honestly, genuinely forgive you." (31:26)

• Bobby, on Jermaine’s grace:

  "He showed me a level of love and of grace that I would have never expected. And it gave me an opportunity to at least start to try and forgive myself for what I had done." (33:12)

• Colin Rheingold, on the power of the exchange:

  "That moment in that hearing just showed me what's possible." (35:01)

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• 02:11 – Bobby’s initial relief and expectations after Jermaine’s release
• 05:09 – Bobby’s relapse, crime spree, and admission of wanting punishment
• 10:23 – Bobby’s surrender and spiritual turning point
• 12:26 – Bobby’s described recovery while incarcerated
• 17:20 – Introduction to Jermaine’s fight for compensation with Colin Rheingold
• 20:31 – DA’s assessment of Bobby’s credibility (Emily Ma)
• 27:15–32:16 – The courtroom apology and Jermaine’s powerful forgiveness
• 36:07 – Jermaine receives a formal apology and compensation order
• 37:49 – Bobby’s idea to collaborate with Jermaine on telling their story
• 39:01 – Jermaine and Bobby, now in contact, commit to spreading their message of redemption and change

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Tone and Narrative Style

The episode maintains a raw, confessional tone throughout, punctuated by direct testimony and moments of vulnerability from both main subjects. Nancy Glass guides the narrative with empathy and meticulous detail, allowing Bobby and Jermaine to share ownership of their intertwined, harrowing, and ultimately redemptive journey.

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This episode stands as a powerful testament to the enduring consequences of false testimony, the complexity of guilt and addiction, and—most of all—the transformative power of forgiveness. It serves as a reminder of systemic failures and the personal courage required to confront them.

Transcript

[Nancy Glass]

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[Bobby Gumprite]

After I heard Jermaine was set free, I just breathed a sigh of relief. I thought that the thing that was holding me back all my life had been taken care of.

[Nancy Glass]

As we told you in the last episode, Jermaine Hudson agreed to plead guilty to the armed robbery Bobby Gumpright made up. Jermaine always said he was innocent, but after being incarcerated for 22 years, he didn't care anymore.

[Jermaine Hudson]

I was actually going to plead guilty to that crime. Y' all can have that conviction. I just need to get home to my daughter. I need to get my life back on track.

[Nancy Glass]

Jermaine was just days away from pleading guilty to a crime he didn't commit, a crime that was made up. But at the last possible moment, it turned out Jermaine didn't need to plead guilty. Bobby confessed to his lie and the very next day, Jermaine was released. For Bobby, the news that Jermaine was now a free man, that his life and his liberty was returned to him, was almost unbelievable.

[Bobby Gumprite]

I don't know exactly what the process was. All I know is that the very next day they said he was out. That's unheard of. Nobody gets out of Angola that fast.

[Nancy Glass]

Bobby heard about Jermaine's release while staying at a Place of Restoration, a faith based rehab program. He was supposed to stay there for nine months to learn discipline, to gain self respect and integrity, all the things he was severely lacking in his life. But once Bobby found out that Jermaine was a free man, he felt a sense of free freedom himself and thought his demons would suddenly disappear.

[Bobby Gumprite]

I ended up leaving that rehab with the belief that I was good, that I didn't need any help in recovery, that I could move on with my life at that point, and I figured that now I was good to go.

[Nancy Glass]

Jeremy Smith, the program director at the rehab, knew better.

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He removed the one glaring issue and then said, I don't really need to look at all the other ones. I think that the confession almost created a deception or an illusion in his mind that I don't really need to examine myself.

[Nancy Glass]

Jeremy couldn't force Bobby to stay. So a month after Bobby arrived, Jeremy had to watch him leave. Now in his 40s, Jermaine restarted his life and in a way that Bobby thought he was doing the same. But Bobby's familiar vices were lurking, following him wherever he went, eagerly waiting to sneak back into his life.

[Bobby Gumprite]

I went back to New Orleans and I fell into drinking and met up with some people that did cocaine and back to using. And as soon as that happened, I went to thinking that stealing was a way to get by. It's almost like I wanted to go to jail.

[Nancy Glass]

I'm Nancy Glass. This is season two, A Burden of Guilt. Episode six, the Final Surrender. When Bobby Gumprite first went back to New Orleans, he was euphoric. He felt that God had changed him and he wanted to share the gospel with other people.

[Bobby Gumprite]

I actually went to tell people how God saved me. My Whole intent was to go and tell people how I was saved and God was wonderful, which was great. Like, the intention was good, but the execution wasn't so hot.

[Nancy Glass]

And almost immediately, he ran back into the arms of his old ways and bad habits. Smoking, drinking, using drugs and using other people just to get by.

[Bobby Gumprite]

I was living on the streets again. No job, just wandering, really, not knowing what the next step is.

[Nancy Glass]

Bobby slipped fully back into addiction. Everything was focused on one thing. Getting money however he could, whatever it took. Stealing didn't feel like a choice so much as the next step. And then late one night, opportunity found him.

[Bobby Gumprite]

I ended up stealing this food trailer by the Superdome.

[Nancy Glass]

It was decked out for tailgate parties for the New Orleans Saints games, and it was unlocked.

[Bobby Gumprite]

I went and got my truck and hooked it up to this food trailer, and I had this brilliant idea. I was going to take it back out to Eunice where I knew people that could probably help me fix it up and use it.

[Nancy Glass]

High out of his mind, Bobby began driving. He started in the direction of Eunice, the same town where he met Pastor Tezeno. Remember, he's the pastor who helped Bobby with food and shelter when he stumbled into True Light Baptist Church. It's a three hour drive from New Orleans.

[Bobby Gumprite]

I'm going down the highway and the trailer pops off the hitch and I'm dragging it and I'm in like rush hour traffic in New Orleans, so I have to jump out and I've got a jack in the back of the truck and I'm jacking the trailer up to get it back on the ball. And a state trooper pulls up and the state trooper's like, what's going on? And I was like, oh, it popped off the hitch.

[Nancy Glass]

But just picture this. While he's talking to the state trooper, he's high on cocaine and method driving a stolen trailer that he's haphazardly loaded onto the back of his truck.

[Bobby Gumprite]

The state trooper's like, we'll get it back on there and get back on the road. And I was like, yes, sir.

[Nancy Glass]

He was spared from consequences yet again. Bobby continued his drive to Eunice, but he ran out of gas in Baton Rouge. With no money to his name, he pulled into the parking lot of a construction company and passed out.

[Bobby Gumprite]

The next morning, I woke up and ended up going on to their yard. It was Memorial Day weekend, so nobody was there. I found an open gate, ended up finding the keys to their tool room, and loaded up all the copper wire that they had for their welding machines.

[Nancy Glass]

Bobby abandoned his pickup truck and climbed into the cab. He was gonna steal that, too.

[Bobby Gumprite]

I had never driven an 18 wheeler before, so I had watched a YouTube video on how to shift it, and that's how I got it out of the yard.

[Nancy Glass]

Okay, think about that for a second. Bobby had never driven an 18 wheeler. He got a quick tutorial from a video online. Then he went right out onto the highway again. While he's under the influence of drugs, driving next to thousands of people, it's

[Bobby Gumprite]

a miracle I didn't kill somebody or myself when I drove that thing.

[Nancy Glass]

The drive didn't last much longer.

[Bobby Gumprite]

Got out to Eunice. Then I just heard that the cops were looking for me.

[Nancy Glass]

Then Bobby had a moment of clarity in Eunice. After all, it was the same place where God had spoken to him and led him into True Light Baptist Church.

[Bobby Gumprite]

Finally, I had another spiritual moment, another come to myself moment where it was like, I can't run anymore. I'm done. I'm tired. I can't do it anymore. And I just surrendered. I just was like, I'm done running. And at that moment, I just put my hands in the air and I told God that no matter what, I was going to follow him for the rest of my life.

[Nancy Glass]

Just then, Bobby saw the lights of a police car headed straight for him.

[Bobby Gumprite]

And then they arrested me.

[Nancy Glass]

He immediately surrendered.

[Bobby Gumprite]

I guess at that point, I. It's almost like I wanted to go to jail.

[Nancy Glass]

Maybe you're thinking, shouldn't he have been arrested for committing perjury? But here's the thing. The District Attorney's office didn't want to discourage other people from coming forward to recant false testimony, so Bobby never served a day in jail for that. Do you think you wanted to go to jail to be punished for what you did to Jermaine?

[Bobby Gumprite]

Yeah, I always thought that I needed to be punished in some way.

[Nancy Glass]

Were you scared when they arrested you?

[Bobby Gumprite]

No, I wasn't scared. I admitted to what had happened. They had me dead to rights, you know, within a confession. When they asked why, I said, drugs. That's the only excuse.

[Nancy Glass]

On June 1, 2021, officers took Bobby Gumpride to the Evangeline Parish Jail in Ville Platte, Louisiana, where his booking process began. Cut off from any supply, Bobby braced himself for drug withdrawal.

[Bobby Gumprite]

And it was a very, very strange thing. The moment that I put my hands in the air and surrendered to God was the moment that every desire and withdrawal symptom and everything just went away.

[Nancy Glass]

He had spent years of his life running from addiction and from what he had done to Jermaine. Jail was the first place where it all stopped.

[Bobby Gumprite]

I never had another desire for a cigarette, another desire for a drink, or another desire for a drug since that day.

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[Nancy Glass]

After a drug fueled crime spree that included stealing an 18 wheeler and valuable copper wire, Bobby Gumprite was arrested and charged with the illegal possession of stolen goods. In a reversal of fates, Bobby is now the one in jail awaiting the consequences of his actions.

[Emily Ma]

And.

[Nancy Glass]

And at the very same time, Jermaine Hudson, now a free man, was back in court. This time Jermaine was the plaintiff, not the defendant. He was suing the State of Louisiana. Jermaine was being represented by an advocacy and legal nonprofit called the Promise of Justice Initiative. They're also known as pji. They were fighting for people who had been incarcerated under the non unanimous jury system. In Jermaine's case, an attorney from that organization was helping him fight for reparations from the state. Jermaine was wrongfully convicted and entitled to compensation. His attorney was Colin Rheingold.

[Colin Rheingold]

When I got Jermaine's case, he'd already had his conviction vacated. But in order to get paid by Louisiana for the wrong that was done to him, you have to convince a judge that not only was there something wrong with your conviction in the first place, but also that you're innocent. And so I got his case at this stage where we had to present the evidence that he was innocent in order to get the compensation from the state.

[Nancy Glass]

Part of that evidence was Bobby's recanted testimony.

[Colin Rheingold]

I can't remember a time where a person has recanted in such a dramatic way. To have someone 20 years later come in and say, actually, I made it up and this has been weighing me down for 20 years and ruined my life as well. I can't. Yeah, I never heard of anything like that happening.

[Nancy Glass]

And that's why to the Attorney General's office, it was pretty unbelievable. They were skeptical, so they needed to talk with Bobby. But he was in a prison camp in Ala waiting to find out what his sentence would be for illegal possession of stolen goods. He had pled guilty.

[Bobby Gumprite]

And while I was at ola, I got a zoom call from the Attorney General's office. And it was, I don't know, five or six people on the call, all from the Attorney General's Office of Louisiana. They told me that Jermaine was in the process of a wrongful conviction suit against the state, and they wanted to hear my deposition.

[Nancy Glass]

So he retold his story from the beginning, bearing his guilt and remorse for sending an innocent man to prison for half his life. It was the truth, but still there was doubt. The Attorney General's Office was suspicious. What if Bobby's recantation was all a scam? What if Jermaine and Bobby were now working together so that Jermaine could be released and they could split the wrongful conviction payout?

[Bobby Gumprite]

They kept trying to say, so you never knew him before this happened? Like, he never sold drugs to you, he hasn't contacted you while you've been in prison, or none of his people have contacted you? And I was like, no, they're acting like there has to be a connection other than what I've said, but there wasn't. There wasn't. There was never a connection between me and Jermaine prior to or after. There was never anything.

[Nancy Glass]

Among the people on the zoom call was Emily Ma from the District Attorney's office. She was previously the Director of the Innocence Project New Orleans, serving as an attorney who primarily focused on wrongful convictions. But in 2021, she joined the efforts of the new DA, Jason Williams, in the Civil Rights Division. In this case, Emily was representing the state, and part of her job was to sniff out any falsehoods or discrepancies.

[Emily Ma]

As a lawyer, you always hope that you're going to approach anything with some skepticism and some questioning. The fact that it had checked out, that he'd tried to come to the office before. He had a card from somebody that he tried to talk to, I think, who had been pretty dismissive. The fact that it was the manager of a rehab center who contacted me about the person there all indicated to me that this was not somebody coming forward to try to clear their friend kind of statement. There were indications of credibility.

[Nancy Glass]

The District Attorney's office was convinced it was all on the up and up. But Louisiana's Attorney General's office wasn't so sure.

[Bobby Gumprite]

So they said, well, if you lied, then why should we believe you now? And I said, well, because back then I was trying to hide something. Now I have nothing to hide. I'm not trying to hide anything, so you can ask me anything and I'll tell you. It wasn't pleasant for them because they didn't get what they wanted out of it, because they wanted to figure out a way where they wouldn't have to. Number one, admit that the state had made an error. And number two, pay out any kind of money to somebody for this kind of wrongful conviction.

[Nancy Glass]

Bobby pled guilty to illegal possession of stolen goods and was sentenced to four years in jail. He took it without a fuss.

[Bobby Gumprite]

I thought that was actually pretty lenient considering what I had done. I expected a lot worse. I had already expected to go to prison the rest of my life. I didn't know what was going to happen when I came forward.

[Nancy Glass]

For Bobby, going to jail wasn't the scary part.

[Bobby Gumprite]

I was scared that people would find out what I had done to Jermaine. If guys in jail would have known what I had done, it would have gotten very dangerous for me.

[Nancy Glass]

In many ways, Bobby's incarceration looked very different from Jermaine's. He was held in a parish jail, not Angola prison.

[Bobby Gumprite]

I was not put into a work camp style prison. Jermaine was at hard labor. Angola is hard labor. Angola is where they send you out into the field to do hard labor. I never did that. I wasn't put in that position.

[Nancy Glass]

In fact, Bobby was able to work outside of the correctional facility with his new sobriety. And he helped start an AA program inside the jail. And Bobby became a trustee, an inmate trusted with essential work inside the jail and granted special privileges for many incarcerated people. It takes years to reach that status. For Bobby, it didn't.

[Bobby Gumprite]

What Jermaine was going through for all those years in his cell, I only got a small taste of it.

[Nancy Glass]

He would have to testify virtually from jail at Jermaine's compensation hearing. And the idea of seeing the man whose young life he had stolen overwhelmed him with shame. Bobby thought he knew how it would go, but he was wrong. While Bobby was serving his time for the stolen property conviction, he received a strange phone call.

[Bobby Gumprite]

I was told one day that I had a phone call with my lawyer and I didn't have a lawyer. I had already finished my case, so I didn't understand what that was all about. But they took me up front and they put me on the phone.

[Nancy Glass]

On the other end of the line was Colin Rheingold, Jermaine's lawyer from the Promise of Justice Initiative in New Orleans. He was representing Jermaine in the wrongful conviction suit against the state. It was now March of 2022.

[Bobby Gumprite]

He said that tomorrow I would be called as a witness in that case and I would be asked to recant My testimony from the 20 years prior on the record, in a courtroom. He had told me that Jermaine was going to be there and that I would be able to see him and he would be able to see me.

[Nancy Glass]

This hearing would be the first time the two men would come face to face since Jermaine's trial back in 2000. Bobby would be appearing on Zoom the next day.

[Bobby Gumprite]

I got up and went up to the front and they put me in a room by myself next to the warden's office and put a computer in front of me and got in the court proceeding.

[Nancy Glass]

It was a compensation hearing to determine how much the State of Louisiana owed Jermaine Hudson. But for Bobby Gumprite, it was personal. He was there to recant his testimony. Colin Rheingold called Bobby to the stand.

[Colin Rheingold]

When I called Bobby, Bobby explained everything that had happened. He explained the truth. He explained that he lied about it. And he explained how he'd made up the robbery because he was scared of his dad because he'd been spending his money on drugs. He explained how he came to confess the truth and how remorseful he'd been.

[Nancy Glass]

Bobby remembers that tense day vividly. And he remembers that the toughest question he was asked was, why? Why had he lied?

[Bobby Gumprite]

I don't think I could give him an answer. I still have a hard time giving an answer for why. The only thing I've been able to put together is just my need to be a part of and be important and to have people like me and just to have some sort of purpose. And it was just a twisted, twisted way of finding that. But that's still not a great answer. I just. I can't. I've never been able to really pinpoint, like, at that moment, why would I point at. Why wouldn't I just say, nope, none of them look familiar. Like, how different would everything have been if I would have just said, no?

[Jermaine Hudson]

That's.

[Bobby Gumprite]

None of them goes, you haven't found him. He's still out there. I can only imagine how different his life would have been had I not interjected.

[Nancy Glass]

Colin asked Bobby more questions like, have you ever seen Jermaine before, other than the trial when you accused him of robbing you? To which Bobby said, no, the compensation hearing was pretty standard.

[Colin Rheingold]

And then I said, if you could say something to Jermaine, what would you say?

[Bobby Gumprite]

And I didn't. I couldn't. I think I tried to say I'm sorry and I just broke down.

[Nancy Glass]

Jermaine stood up next to his lawyer so that Bobby and the other virtual attendants could see him on their screens.

[Jermaine Hudson]

I said, ask the judge, can I speak to Bobby? Because he was so emotional. He was crying his heart out. And she said, yeah. I got up. I went to the podium.

[Nancy Glass]

Everyone in the room went silent.

[Colin Rheingold]

I didn't talk to Jermaine about what he might say to Bobby. I don't know what I was expecting Jermaine to say.

[Nancy Glass]

No one in the courtroom ever expected what came next.

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[Nancy Glass]

Jermaine's compensation hearing to determine whether he was entitled to receive restitution from the state was in progress. Bobby testified via a zoom link from jail about the lie he told at Jermaine's trial. After he tearfully apologized to Jermaine, Jermaine asked to address Bobby directly. The room became deadly silent.

[Jermaine Hudson]

I was close to the video screen that he was on with his representatives. My first question to him was, are you okay? And he started crying even more.

[Nancy Glass]

Everyone held their breath. And then Jermaine said something no one was expecting.

[Jermaine Hudson]

I said, I forgive you. I understand what you are going through, but I forgive you. I don't hold no hate against you. I don't hold no bitterness against you. I say, I honestly, genuinely forgive you.

[Colin Rheingold]

I mean, he could have said nothing. He could have just said, thank you for your apology. But he said, I forgive you. I don't think most people would have done it. I think I'm getting choked up just remembering it.

[Nancy Glass]

It's hard to imagine forgiving someone who took so much. Jermaine, what made you decide to say that in open court?

[Jermaine Hudson]

The damage has been done. I said, it's time for you to get your life back on track now. Like, leave those drugs alone. Those drugs are going to kill you, man. Get your life back on track. I say, I respect you even more because you came forward. A lot of people don't do this. They'll take it to their grave with them or they'll be like, it is what it is. Let him deal with it. But you had the heart to come forward, even though it took 22 years. Even though those 22 years I can't get back. Even though those 22 years you took out of my life, my kids life, and every other human being that loved me. I said, but you got to move forward now because it's over. I said, I'm going to be all right. I'm home now. I got me. But you need to focus on you. You need to quit all that crying and you need to get your life together.

[Nancy Glass]

At that point, Bobby was sobbing.

[Bobby Gumprite]

He said, I forgive you. He said, all I want is for you to live a good life for 22 years. His voice was silenced. And then he used it to Forgive me. He didn't have to do that. He could have used his voice to yell at me, to curse me, but he used his voice to forgive me. And I couldn't say anything. There wasn't anything I could say. I just sat there and bawled. I could never imagine that level of forgiveness. And I knew he meant it, which I've heard plenty of people say. Oh, he's just saying it. I could tell at that moment he wasn't just saying it. Why would he? He doesn't have to just say it. He's got the right to say whatever he wants. He showed me a level of love and of grace that I would have never expected. And it gave me an opportunity to at least start to try and forgive myself for what I had done.

[Nancy Glass]

The entire courtroom was emotional. Judge Nandi Campbell asked for recess. This incredible example of humanity moved Jermaine's lawyer beyond belief.

[Colin Rheingold]

I think that moment in that hearing just showed me what's possible. Bobby committed a grievous harm against Jermaine and still forgave him. I think in large part because he saw how much Bobby was suffering, despite how much Jermaine had suffered. For those two men to recognize each other's humanity in the way they did, and particularly for Jermaine to do what he did, it's a little bit helpful. We can all learn a lot from Jermaine.

[Nancy Glass]

When the court came back after the recess, the decision of whether or not to compensate Jermaine was clear.

[Colin Rheingold]

Everyone knew that what Bobby was saying now was the truth and that he lied at trial and that Jermaine deserved everything the state could possibly give him. So the judge apologized to Jermaine on behalf of the state of Louisiana, and she ordered that Jermaine get compensation from the state.

[Nancy Glass]

Louisiana has one of the lowest compensation rates for wrongful convictions in the country. It's capped at $40,000 for every year spent in prison. But the state only covers up to 10 years. Jermaine was falsely imprisoned for 22 years, but he was only entitled to $400,000.

[Colin Rheingold]

I don't know how you value it, but there's no right amount of money. If you're wrongfully in prison for a day, what's the right amount of money?

[Nancy Glass]

It's almost impossible to quantify how much someone's life is worth when they've spent half of it in prison for a crime that never occurred. But it was something, an apology from all sides, movement in the right direction. From that moment on, Bobby was determined to get his life back on Track.

[Bobby Gumprite]

With Jermaine's blessing, I had a day to reflect. I went back and just cried, Just laid on my bunk and cried. I felt like it was just. It was another nod from God saying, I forgive you.

[Nancy Glass]

Bobby was released from jail In October of 2022, about seven months after the compensation hearing.

[Bobby Gumprite]

I didn't really know what I was going to do. I just knew that I wanted to live a better life like Jeraine asked me to. That's the only thing I can do.

[Nancy Glass]

Even though Bobby didn't have any idea of what the future would hold for him after being released, he did know one thing. He wanted Jermaine to be a part of it.

[Bobby Gumprite]

Our story is compelling. It's full of forgiveness. It's full of not such good things. And I kept getting this feeling like I should write something down and put it into a book. But I don't want to proceed if Jermaine doesn't agree to it. If he doesn't want me to write it, I won't write it. I didn't feel like it was appropriate to reach out to Jermaine directly, so I reached out to his lawyer, Colin Rheingold, and I wrote him a letter.

[Nancy Glass]

In his letter, Bobby said he wanted to make amends to Jermaine by writing about their story together. That maybe sharing their truth could encourage others to do the same. Bobby pressed send and waited, and I

[Bobby Gumprite]

didn't know if I was going to get an answer.

[Nancy Glass]

A few months later, his phone rang,

[Bobby Gumprite]

was a 504 area code, which is New Orleans. And I said, well, I wonder who this is. So I pick up the phone and I said, hello, I see.

[Jermaine Hudson]

How you doing, man? He said, who is this? I said, you have the slightest idea who this is? Huh?

[Bobby Gumprite]

And I hear a voice say, I bet you'd never think you would hear from me.

[Jermaine Hudson]

I said, man, this is Jermaine. And I can hear him just crying on the phone. I said, even. Even though I told you in the courtroom that I forgive you, now you're really hearing it from me, from my voice, one on one. I said, I forgive you, man. I said, I really honestly in my heart forgive you. I said, so let's do something positive. Let's put our story out there to influence others that may have done this. Let's change the narrative. Let's take the negative and turn it to something positive.

[Nancy Glass]

Next time on Burden of Guilt.

[Jermaine Hudson (Alternate)]

When we're talking about non unanimous juries, it's pretty easy to put someone in prison if you don't have to prove your case.

[Jermaine Hudson]

Back then I was naive to the law. I didn't know what I knew until I got to Angola. Louisiana is set up for failure, especially for African Americans. It's really set up to destroy their lives.

[Nancy Glass]

Thank you for listening. If you're enjoying Burden of Guilt, subscribe rate and review the series with five stars.

[Bobby Gumprite]

Yay.

[Nancy Glass]

It helps other people find our show. So are you curious about what the people involved in this look like? Do you want to hear bonus content? Just check out our Instagram account lasspodcasts, where we recap each episode with show notes that include people, places, and even court records. You can reach out to the Burden of guilt [e-mail] that's burdenofgiltpodmail.com Burden of Guilt is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart podcast. The series is executive produced and hosted by me, Nancy Glass, produced by Kerry Hartman, also produced by Ben Federman and Andrea Gunning. This episode was written and associate produced by Jade Abdul Malik. Our story editor is Monique Laborde. Our production manager is Kristen Melchuri. Our iHeart team is Ally Perry and Jessica Krynczyk. Audio editing by Zac Prouteau scoring and sound design by Matt Del Vecchio mixed and mastered by Anna MacLaine. The burden of Guilt theme is composed by Oliver Baines Music Library provided by mib Music and we want to give our special thanks to Jermaine Hudson and Bobby Gumprite. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app or Apple Podcasts. To follow the work of the Promise of Justice initiative, go to promiseofjustice.org on Instagram and Twitter usticespromise and on Facebook and blue skyromiseofjustice.

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[Podcast Hosts (Janice Torres, Austin Henkiewicz, Danielle Fishel, Ryder Strong, Sarah Spain)]

Janice Torres here

[Indeed Announcer]

and I'm Austin Henkiewicz. We host the podcast Mind the Small Business Success Stories, produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Intuit QuickBooks.

[Podcast Hosts (Janice Torres, Austin Henkiewicz, Danielle Fishel, Ryder Strong, Sarah Spain)]

We're back for season four to talk

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to some incredible small business owners.

[Bobby Gumprite]

The big thing about working at tech is that it's ever evolving, ever changing. Everyone's a rookie. That's how fast the industry is changing. So what I'm really excited about is to be part of that change.

[Indeed Announcer]

So listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jermaine Hudson (Alternate)]

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[Podcast Hosts (Janice Torres, Austin Henkiewicz, Danielle Fishel, Ryder Strong, Sarah Spain)]

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[Nancy Glass]

from Pod Meets World.

[Podcast Hosts (Janice Torres, Austin Henkiewicz, Danielle Fishel, Ryder Strong, Sarah Spain)]

As cat parents, Ryder and I know the feeling of being ignored by our cats. I often wonder, does my cat even love me?

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[Emily Ma]

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[Bobby Gumprite]

Sheba has so many incredible products that

[Nancy Glass]

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[Jermaine Hudson (Alternate)]

is an iHeart podcast.

[Nancy Glass]

Guaranteed human.