Buried Bones – "Dead Weight PT 2"

Podcast: Buried Bones
Hosts: Kate Winkler Dawson & Paul Holes
Date: November 12, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode of Buried Bones, Kate and Paul dissect the infamous 1931 "trunk murders" involving Winnie Ruth Judd, known as the "trunk murderess." The pair revisit the grisly discovery of two bodies in suitcases in Los Angeles, examining the psychological, forensic, and circumstantial evidence surrounding the case. Their discussion blends modern forensic insights with a historical narrative, piecing together the tangled motives and aftermath of one of America’s most sensational women-led crimes.

Key Discussion Points

1. Recap of the Case and Prior Evidence (02:42 – 08:12)

• In October 1931, two women—Sammy and Ann—are discovered dead in steamer trunks and a suitcase at a Los Angeles train station.
• Winnie Judd, former roommate and friend to both victims, emerged as the main suspect after she and her brother Burton tried to claim the trunks before fleeing (05:36).
• The relationship dynamics between the women and the significance of the Great Depression and the tuberculosis epidemic for independent young women in Phoenix are contextualized.

Quote (Kate):
"This is where it all starts to kind of unravel." (06:51)

2. Forensics & Psychological Profile (08:13 – 13:11)

• Paul discusses the risk Winnie took in personally transporting the bodies cross-state and her apparent attempts to delay suspicion through elaborate coverups (06:52).
• Backgrounds are fleshed out: Winnie's tumultuous marriage, her battle with tuberculosis, and hints of mental instability, as exemplified by her fantasy life about imaginary children (09:18).

Quote (Paul):
"I have to conclude at this point that in her mind, because she’s a former roommate of the two victims, she would naturally presume that she would become a suspect." (06:52)

3. Timeline & Investigation (15:30 – 24:18)

• Police trace the suspects: Burton and William (her husband) are cleared through interviews and alibis; Winnie is found to have acted alone.
• Forensic details: Winnie’s apartment is found to contain sedatives, surgical instruments, and shells from the murder weapon. Evidence of self-inflicted injuries is discussed.
• Winnie's confession is read via her attorney, claiming self-defense during a confrontation with her roommates—a claim Paul swiftly doubts based on forensics.

Quote (Paul):
"Yeah, it’s BS." (23:20, responding to Winnie's self-defense claim)

4. The Trial: Hysteria & Sympathetic Defendant (25:50 – 31:14)

• The 1932 Phoenix trial draws immense media attention, with actual film footage of the packed courtroom.
• Paul notes the challenge for prosecutors when the defendant is an attractive, seemingly demure woman.
• Kate highlights the public’s fascination with the case and the rare video documentation from the era (26:32).

Quote (Paul):
"She’s dressed in a very conservative outfit... She’s looking very demure, trying to pretend to be an innocent defendant. Well, but she’s been coached, you know, it’s to try to get the jurors’ sympathy." (26:32)

5. Motives, Mental Illness, and Romantic Rivalry (31:14 – 40:08)

• The prosecution argues premeditation and points to self-inflicted wounds as evidence against self-defense.
• The possible mental health elements—schizophrenia, psychopathy with paranoia—are debated, but no consensus emerges among the psychiatrists.
• Introduction of Jack “Happy Jack” Halloran, a wealthy lover, as a potential accomplice, complicating the narrative.

Quote (Paul):
"Fundamentally, I just don’t see any real argument for true insanity here. There may be a mental health concern, but I don’t think it rises to the level where you can’t convict." (39:00)

6. Confessions Galore: Changing Stories & the Role of Jack Halloran (40:08 – 44:54)

• After conviction and a death sentence, Winnie changes her story, implicating Halloran as an accessory post-murder.
• The grand jury declines to indict Halloran but commutes Winnie’s death sentence to life; she claims burning evidence, moving bodies with Halloran’s help, and throwing body parts out the train window.

Quote (Kate):
"This is like confession-rama... There’s a lot of confessions that happen." (40:08)

7. Sanity, Legal Maneuvering, and Dodgers of Justice (48:07 – 51:45)

• Days before her scheduled execution, Winnie is declared insane and transferred to a mental asylum.
• She escapes from custody seven times, spending over six years as a fugitive living under an alias in San Francisco—before being recaptured and ultimately pardoned at the age of 65.

Quote (Paul):
"That's because she’s at in a low-level, you know, custodial environment, and she’s smart enough and sane enough to be able to figure out how she can actually get out of this facility." (49:24)

8. Definitive Confession and Aftermath (51:46 – 59:56)

• In her final confession, found in the Arizona archives, Winnie outlines the crime closely matching the prosecution’s original account:
  • Motive: shame over infidelity, frustration and jealousy towards Ann, psychological instability.
  • Timeline: Attempted murder foiled by emotion, later successful shooting of Ann, fatal fight with Sammy (53:21).
  • Practical details: moving heavy bodies, cleaning, burning evidence, distributing the remains between trunks and suitcases.
• Paul finds this final account credible, noting the alignment with physical evidence (55:58, 56:45).
• Discussion on the likelihood of the bodies remaining undetected if the trunks had been disposed of in the Pacific Ocean; both hosts share practical insights about steam trunks’ buoyancy.

Quote (Kate):
"My maniacal condition gave me superhuman strength." —Winnie, quoted by Kate (54:57)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Reveal and Misdirection

  • "I was trying to not snicker every time you said he, he, he…then you wouldn’t have time to be mad at me when I said, oh, it’s a woman." — Kate (02:50)

• On Forensic Contradictions

  • "This is an absolute fabrication and this is the attorney setting up a self defense case to try to get his client off. But the physical evidence completely contradicts that statement." — Paul (23:31)

• On Winnie's Escapes

  • "Between 1939 and 1962, she escapes from prison seven times." — Kate (49:24)

• Final Reflection

  • "I think she needs to be held or needed to be held responsible for her crimes. I do not believe that she's somebody that should have been subjected to the death penalty…" — Paul (58:33)

Important Timestamps

• Case and Recap – 02:42–08:12
• Profiling & Mental Health – 08:13–15:43
• Confession & Forensic Dissection – 22:36–25:50
• Trial and Video Footage Discussion – 25:50–31:14
• Changes to Plaintiff’s Story, Accomplice Claims – 40:08–44:54
• Prison, Escapes, and Final Outcomes – 48:07–51:45
• Definitive Confession & Analysis – 51:46–59:56

Conclusion & Takeaways

This episode exemplifies the ongoing complexity of the Winnie Ruth Judd case—dubbed the “trunk murderess.” The hosts provide a rich, forensic- and psychology-driven breakdown, interrogating Winnie's changing confessions, the evidence of both mental health struggles and premeditation, and the remarkable aftermath owed to her repeated escapes, eventual pardon, and longevity.

The podcast underscores both the timelessness of human fallibility in criminal justice and how historical cases can benefit from being reexamined with new tools and perspectives.

For full case photos, diagrams, and evidence:
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