Out Cold PT 1

Summary

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Buried Bones: "Out Cold Pt. 1" – Episode Summary

Date: December 3, 2025
Hosts: Kate Winkler Dawson (journalist & author) and Paul Holes (retired cold case investigator)
Podcast: Buried Bones (Exactly Right & iHeartPodcasts)

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Episode Overview

In this two-part episode, Kate and Paul tackle one of history’s most enduring cold cases — the 1959 mystery of nine experienced Russian hikers who perished under strange circumstances in the Ural Mountains. Known as the Dyatlov Pass Incident, this case has spawned decades of conspiracy theories and speculation. Using their investigative and forensic expertise, Kate and Paul reconstruct the group’s journey, unpack the evidence found at the scene, discuss the challenges of forensics in extreme environments, and begin to analyze what could have led to the bizarre injuries and deaths. Part 1 focuses on the context, discovery of the scene and the first four bodies, and early analysis of clues and injuries.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene: The Hikers and Their Expedition

• Nine Hikers (seven men, two women), all highly experienced, most technical university students or alumni in physics, engineering, and related fields.
• The trip: An ambitious winter trek in the Ural Mountains, above the tree line at “height 1079.”
• Conditions: February 1959, -30°F at night, snow five feet deep, wind gusts up to 65 mph.
• Group Details: They belonged to a sporting/expedition club and had trekked in similar conditions prior. Originally 10, but one member left early due to illness.

“All kinds of certifications and whatever they needed to do. They've done really, really difficult things in the past, but they haven't heard from them. And so there's a search party that goes out.”
– Kate Winkler Dawson [12:23]

The Search and Discovery

[11:27–14:28]

• Search Team: University volunteers and local indigenous Mansi people.
• February 26, 1959: Searchers find the hikers’ tent on a 30° snow slope, partially collapsed, slashed, but undisturbed inside.
• Initial Clues:
  • Tent is slashed from the inside.
  • Essential supplies, boots, warm clothes left behind; a flashlight still working atop the tent.
  • Ski poles, a jacket, and all nine sets of skis organized beneath the tent.

“Something happens that causes...do they leave voluntarily, or does something else happen?... this, the, you know, the damage to the tent...my immediate thought is, okay, well, you mentioned the wind...Do you have damage to the tent as a result of weather? Do you have damage to the tent as a result of, you know, large animal...And then, of course, do we have maybe another group that had bad intent?”
— Paul Holes [15:46]

Analysis of the Tent & Exit

[17:21–39:15]

• Inside the Tent: Gear is meticulously organized; food, alcohol, axes, cameras, compasses, and diaries untouched.
• Clues of Hasty Departure: Food and items frozen in place, cocoa jug iced over, stove not lit, belongings untouched—a "frozen moment in time."
• Tent Slashes: Confirmed by expert seamstress as made from the inside, using a sharp cutting instrument. Significant fabric removed, some possibly torn out for a purpose.
• Departure Evidence:
  • 8–9 sets of bare or socked footprints (one with a single boot), orderly, not running, leading away from the tent and disappearing into the snow about a quarter-mile away.

“They're not going to voluntarily just leave that stuff behind.”
— Paul Holes [17:21]

“Why would somebody do that? The way that that's drawn, that's not done by an animal. I don't see this occurring as a result of weather... experts claimed it was done from the inside.”
— Paul Holes [36:22]

The First Bodies & Clues at the Treeline

[41:49–58:02]

• Fire Site: Next day, searchers find a charred fire at the base of a cedar tree, about a mile from the tent.
  • Tree branches (12–17 ft high) broken, and multiple clothing items left around.
  • First Two Bodies:
    • Yuri Doroshenko (21), face-down, stripped to undergarments, multiple abrasions, burnt extremities, frostbite, hands clenched.
    • Georgi "Kriva" Krivounis (23), close by, face up, also mostly undressed, severe burns, signs of beatings, missing skin from finger (found in his mouth), frostbite.
  • Both appear to have been beaten (“being beat in the face,” “possibly fighting back”), extensive trauma but officially attributed to hypothermia/exposure.

Continuing Discoveries: Two More Victims

[58:15–62:15]

• Igor (leader) and Zina (one of two women) found half a mile from the fire, facing the tent, slightly better dressed but still underprepared for the cold.
• Injuries: Non-fatal blunt force trauma, facial bruising, frostbitten extremities, hands and fingers scraped, post-mortem indications of body movement (“livor mortis” on back while body found face-up).
• Theory forming: Paul suggests they may have been able to flee an attack, only to die from exposure.

Autopsy Findings & Forensic Interpretation

[63:11–72:49]

• All four deaths labeled “violent and accidental” but caused by hypothermia. Autopsy details support extreme exposure—frostbite, overfilled bladders, specific autopsy signs of cold exposure (Vishnevsky spots).
• Significant Forensic Clues:
  • Tissue missing from Kriva’s finger found in his mouth.
  • Some bodies show post-mortem movement (lividity patterns).
  • The state of undress may be related partly to hypothermia-induced delirium (paradoxical undressing), but Paul is skeptical it explains the injuries and departure.

“It may not have been fatal, but they are being beat significantly. There may be aspects of the victims after that where now they're not thinking straight. But, you know, they didn't just walk out of the tent because of hypothermia. They are forced out of the tent and march a significant distance away.”
— Paul Holes [72:49]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Theories and Speculation

• Paul Holes fixates on the tent slashing:

  “It's very possible that whoever did this Was using this fabric...to bundle something up, you know, like a little to make a carrying case. Or ... wrap a body in.” [38:32]

• Kate contextualizes the magnitude of the case:

  “This is a really big story. So it's a two parter. And I for sure need your help because there's a lot of snow avalanche talk, like what is happening in this scene? And I know nothing about the mountains, so I think you're gonna have some good insight.” [06:31]

• Paul’s initial hypothesis:

  “They're not going to voluntarily just leave that stuff behind.” [17:21] “My sense is, is that both Yuri And Kriva prob as a result of blows, maybe, you know, repeated blows to the head. But there's a lot, there's violence. There's a lot of violence going on to both of these victims.” [57:02]

• On forensic difficulty with frostbite & mountain environment:

  “I would say if it's a good snow, it's still cold enough to where the snow is solid. That's probably better than having to process a crime scene in the rain.” — Paul Holes [09:06]

• On the human factor of victimology:

  “They were all students or recent alumni in economics, nuclear physics, machine building, radio and civil engineering... they're all experienced and they were trained to become nuclear power and weapon and radio and aerospace engineers.” — Kate Winkler Dawson [52:55]

Emotional and Human Touches

• Kate opens with a personal note:

  “This is one of my favorite days of the year.. because it’s my twin’s birthday.” [03:16]

• Paul reflects on birthdays and mortality:

  “It’s a reminder that, you know, there’s less life left than what has been lived.” [06:01]

• Kate’s mother’s perspective on aging:

  “She just turned 82 and she said, I am going to shout it from the rooftops every year...” [06:06]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:15] – Personal intros, birthday talk
• [06:31] – Introduction of case and general setting
• [07:48] – Setting the scene: Ural Mountains, 1959, search begins
• [13:18] – Tent discovered, first analysis of items left behind
• [15:46] – Paul’s initial hypotheses about tent damage
• [17:21–39:15] – Tent contents, departure, footprints, forensic breakdown
• [41:49] – Search party follows footprints, fire and first bodies
• [43:35] – Detailed examination of first two victims (Yuri and Kriva)
• [58:15] – Discovery of next two victims (Igor and Zina)
• [63:11] – Autopsy discussion and early interpretations
• [73:16] – Cliffhanger conclusion, preview of Part 2

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Flow & Tone

The conversation is inquisitive and methodical, with Paul alternately playing detective and skeptic — constantly probing the logic of potential scenarios, dissecting forensic findings, and raising critical questions about each clue. Kate steers the narrative, weaving in research tidbits, emotional perspectives, and context about the victims’ lives and Soviet-era mountaineering culture.

Despite the grim nature of the case, their discussion remains thoughtful and respectful, occasionally grounded by personal anecdotes and their usual on-air chemistry. The hosts maintain a balance between technical forensic deep-dives and an empathetic focus on the victims as individuals.

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Conclusion (to be continued...)

The hosts leave off with five hikers still missing, the scene set for more forensic investigation, conspiracy theories, and suspect profiles in Part 2. Paul Holes is skeptical of simple explanations and leans toward foul play or group aggression, repeatedly citing the violence and post-mortem movement. Kate promises more intricate twists, possible scapegoating, and highly speculative (even outlandish) theories as the investigation continues.

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Next Episode Tease:
“Not only do we have five more missing people, but we have a lot of conspiracy theories and a particular group of people who are targeted with very little evidence. So there's a lot of speculation that happens in the second half of this.”
— Kate Winkler Dawson [72:49]

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For case photos, diagrams, and evidence:
Visit @buriedbonespod on Instagram

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Transcript

[Paul Holes]

This is exactly right.

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[Kate Winkler Dawson]

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[Kate Winkler Dawson]

I'm Kate Winkler Dawson. I'm a journalist who spent the last 25 years writing about true crime.

[Paul Holes]

And I'm Paul Holes, a retired cold case investigator who's worked some of America's most complicated cases and solve them.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Each week I present Paul with one of history's most compelling true crimes, and.

[Paul Holes]

I weigh in using modern forensic techniques to bring new insights to old mysteries.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Together. Using our individual expertise, we're examining historical true crime cases through a 21st century.

[Paul Holes]

Lens some are solved and some are cold. Very cold.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

This is buried bones. Hey, Paul.

[Paul Holes]

Hey, Kate. How are you?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

I'm doing really well. And here's why. This is one of my favorite days of the year.

[Paul Holes]

Okay.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Because it's my twin's birthday.

[Paul Holes]

Oh, sure. Okay.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Isn't it sweet? I mean, I love my kids so much and I love it that I'm in December. They're in December. They're Sagittarius, I'm Capricorn. I love having a winter birthday with them. It's so sweet.

[Paul Holes]

Yeah. Now you've got a lot of things going on in December.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Then with the holidays, it kind of starts with Halloween. With me, we go Halloween, it gets hectic. And then, you know. Cause three weeks later, ish, you have Thanksgiving and then the girl's birthday. And then we have, you know, Christmas and my birthdays right after that and New Year's. And so it's wild. It's crazy. But they love it. Yeah, they like having a birthday together. Of course, you don't have a choice when you're a twin, but they like having their birthday together. So tell me first how your kids, I know you have two older ones, two younger ones. How did they like to celebrate birthdays? Any special way they parties the whole way through? No.

[Paul Holes]

You know, I would say the younger kids ended up having more of a group of friends that they would have over, like the special friends. My older kids, not so much. You know, they would just have one or two friends, but not as big of a group as the younger kids.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Well, they used to do that. They have similar friend groups. And so they would have sometimes like a big party, you know, so they would do that sometimes. Now we sort of just do family stuff. And then one will go with. With one best friend and the other will go with the other best friend. But one of my girls started doing something interesting last year. She asked if she could go to her favorite restaurant, which is the steakhouse. She's really big on seafood and steak and all that stuff. And I said, okay, do you want me to. And she said no. And I said, do you want to go with, like, your best friend? And she said no. And I said, who are you going with? And she wants to go by herself. And so I almost felt like last year I had to call the restaurant and say, I've got this kid. She's going to have a credit card. Just let her do what she wants to do. It's authorized. And she wants to do that again this year. So she goes and she has what.

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She wants to have.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

And she'll get like this little molten chocolate cake for free. And then she'll come home and we'll do a little family celebration. But that's what she wants. To listen to her music and eat at an expensive steak restaurant.

[Paul Holes]

Kind of adult.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Yeah, she likes space. She's a kid that needs space. And so she really. I don't know, that's just the ideal way that she would do it. Is that what you. What would you do for your birthday? Ideally?

[Paul Holes]

I'm probably very similar to her. I really don't acknowledge my birthday.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Yeah, me either.

[Paul Holes]

You know, after you have so many of them. Yeah.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

So many Paul holes.

[Paul Holes]

It's a reminder that, you know, there's less life left than what has been lived.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

So I told you what my mom says. She just turned 82 and she said, I am going to shout it from the rooftops every year because how many people don't make it to 82? So I am trying to adopt that. I think that's a very positive attitude. Unlike your every year I'm closer to death.

[Paul Holes]

Maybe I need to change my mindset a little bit.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

No, I mean, I understand that. We also in my family like to tell really good stories. And this is not a story I would tell my kids. The one I'm getting ready to tell you, but it fits into our winter theme and it's gonna be really, really interesting. It's a Cold War mystery. I think we had some conspiracy stuff, but not specifically about the Cold War. And this is a really big story. So it's a two parter. And I for sure need your help because there's a lot of snow avalanche talk, like what is happening in this scene? And I know nothing about the mountains, so I think you're gonna have some good insight.

[Paul Holes]

Okay, well, I'll do my best.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Okay, let's set the scene. There are so many photos that go along with this that I had to send you several different packets. So I'll call for the. Okay, let's go to the diagram of this and that for you to be able to look and you can just condense, you know what you're looking at. What's the basic summary? But I'm happily in an area 1959, where there were a lot of photos. So I think that'll please you. I know, it always does. You try to pretend, you try to play it off and go, oh, no, I love these 1800s and 1700s stories. But secretly you would like more stories. I bet. With photos.

[Paul Holes]

I'm always more comfortable with photos, but.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

You know, we make it work.

[Paul Holes]

Yep.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

All right, here we go. So this is set in Russia, Siberia. So please, please, please, everybody just, you know, look at this with some grace. When I try to go through some of these Russian names, I'll do the best I can. So it might take a hot second for me to make sure I'm getting the pronouncer. You too, Paul. Make sure I'm getting the pronouncer right. We are in the mountains. We start in the mountains and we end in the mountains on this one. So we're above the tree line on height 1079 in the Ural Mountains. And this is an area that's barren and rounded. And the range is. Runs north to south, which is the marking the border of Siberia and dividing Europe from Asia.

[Paul Holes]

Okay.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

And this is a place that people like to explore. And this is 1959. So the atmosphere already. I know you're gonna wanna talk about trying to figure out mysteries and murders in outdoor environments. And snow must be one of the biggest challenge. Which is worse, do you think, in certain circumstances, is it rain or is it snow, or is it both?

[Paul Holes]

You know, to be frank, I. I've never processed a crime scene in the snow coming out of the Bay Area, California.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Oh, it's true. Yeah.

[Paul Holes]

I've definitely reviewed crime scenes, you know, that occurred, you know, where it had snowed. And there, you know what I was fascinated when I was starting to see, you know, crime scene images is you see so much more because let's just say shoe impressions, you can start to see where the offender has. Has walked, you know, and. And kind of there's more information to reconstruct what happened. If it's, you know, still somewhat pristine, if you will. Rain sucks. I will tell you that processing a crime scene in the rain, you're losing evidence. As. As time goes on, you can't really take notes. The photos flash bounces off the raindrops. So your photos turn out looking like crap. So I would say if it's. If it's a good snow, it's still cold enough to where the snow is solid. That's probably better than having to process a crime scene in the rain.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Well, this is cold, cold snow, so maybe that's good news for us. It's February 26, 1959, and the temperatures have been hovering around 0 degrees Fahrenheit during the day and then at night. I think it's funny. Allison, who's our crack researcher here, she says dip, dip as low as negative 30 degrees at night. What would be the coldest that Colorado in the mountains would get?

[Paul Holes]

Do you think you started this out by saying that this is above the tree line? So that tells me that we are at a pretty serious elevation. I'm guessing roughly around 10,000ft. And when you get out into the Rockies in the Front Range, you start to see the tree line. Once you get to roughly that elevation and it gets cold. You know, I have Pikes Peak in my rear yard almost at 14,000ft. And it's so much colder up at that elevation than at where I live, which is 6,500ft. So, you know, I'm sure there's places, you know, at higher elevations in the Rockies that are going to match this location out here in Siberia.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Well, the snow is five feet deep.

[Paul Holes]

Oh, wow.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

And earlier in the month, listen to this. Earlier in the month, the winds had whipped through the pass at 65 miles per hour.

[Paul Holes]

Yeah.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Okay, so we have a search party who is going into this environment. And it's a student along with some teacher volunteers from a technical university. And they are searching for nine people associated with the university who are all professional explorer hikers and who have been in this area before. So it is seven men and two women. And they're all incredibly experienced. I mean, all kinds of certifications and whatever they needed to do. They've done really, really difficult things in the past, but they haven't heard from them. And so there's a search party that goes out. What will be important later on is part of the search party is a group of indigenous people called the Manzies. So, you know, they're helping out because they know the area also. And they had set out six days earlier than what we're talking about. So on February 20, the search party and they have been tracing the ski tracks that they believe belong to this little expedition is what I'll call them. And the tracks brought them to this gentle 30 degree slope. They immediately come to the first alarming thing that they find. And I will sort of disclose this to say why we are doing this story, is that we have these missing hikers. They will be found. The question is, what happened? And it has been this incredible mystery ever since 1959. So here's the first clue in what is to me one of the more concerning clues. Okay, so they're at this gentle 30 degree slope. The search team looks down in a shallow dugout that is meant to shelter hikers from the wind. And they find a tent that they believe belongs to the Expedition team. And it is slashed and partially collapsed.

[Paul Holes]

Okay.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

And there are no hikers inside. Let me get through this a little bit. And then we're gonna look at the tent and kind of you can tell me what you think. So I'll have diagrams of the tent and what the slashes look like, and then I'll have photos of the tent and what those are. So there are no hikers. There's one tent pole that sticks above the snow. This tent was constructed by stitching two canvases together. And the tent is 6ft by 13ft. Seems pretty big. It's designed to hang on tre, but it could also be sort of hitched up on a pair of skis, you know, in an emergency, several skis. And there is a working flashlight that's balanced on the top edge of the tent. There's a pair of skis that's propped up in the snow nearby. There are eight other pairs of skis that are well organized under the tent. And there's an ice axe and a jacket that's nearby. And it looks like all nine people in the expedition were there at one point. So there's nine pairs of skis there for the nine hikers. And then you've got the slashes in the tent. And I could tell you more details about what's actually inside the tent.

[Paul Holes]

At least with what you've told me, it sounds like this expedition team, who are very experienced with the conditions. They all made it to this location safely, and they were able to set up a tent. All the skis are organized. They recognize that this dugout was probably the best shelter. You know, maybe they saw inclement weather coming in, or this was just going to be how far that they were going to be going on that particular day. So they get to this location and everything is normal. And then something happens that causes this, you know, them to, you know, again, do they leave voluntarily, you know, or does something else happen, you know? And then, of course, this, the, you know, the damage to the tent where I'm, you know, my immediate thought is, okay, well, you mentioned the wind, you know, ripping through at 65 miles an hour previously. You know, do you have damage to the tent as a result of weather? Do you have damage to the tent as a result of, you know, large animal, you know, are there bears in this location? And then, of course, do we have maybe another group that had bad intent that crossed paths with this, this expeditionary team? So I'm kind of curious to see how this unfolds.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Okay. Yes, I am, too, because this, like I said, is a big, big mystery. Okay, let me tell you, this is a lot of details. So just let me plow through all the details of what's actually inside what sounds like is a giant tent. So inside, hiking gear is neatly arranged. To the left of the entrance. There are seven pairs of felt boots and six pairs of ski boots. To the right, there are cooking provisions, two large axes, one small axe in a leather case, and three finish knives, all purpose belt knives with a curved cutting edge, and one is actually still in the sheath. There are two buckets, two cooking pots, a suspended stove, bags of biscuits, pork loin. There's alcohol. They think it's probably vodka. There's hiking gear and clothes in the center of the tent. Two more pairs of ski boots and nine backpacks containing nine parkas, eight quilted jackets, one fur coat. And then there's. I mean, this is a lot of stuff. I had no idea. I should have known. Four pairs of shell pants. I mean, just a lot of clothing in there. There's three compasses, one pocket watch, and several blankets. And there's just food and provisions, and there's a first aid kit in there. And it feels like they were sort of caught in the moment. You know, it's not a chaotic scene. It's the tent and the missing hikers that are problematic. I have information about where they think they might have gone because there are what you and I had talked about earlier. There are footprints leaving shoe prints leaving the tent, and there's also the damage to the tent. Do you have a preference on what we talk about first?

[Paul Holes]

The damage to the tent is what I'm kind of keying in on. I mean, everything inside this tent. I mean, this expeditionary team, they were well prepared. And this tent, it's something that took a while to set up and get all of those materials inside of that tent in an organized fashion. So it seems like that they just decided this is where we're going to be staying for a bit, you know. So what caused them to leave without this material? Yeah, because a lot of this material, you know, that you've got the boots and the coats and everything else. This is all survival gear that you're going to need at this elevation at these temperatures, and they're not going to voluntarily just leave that stuff behind.

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[Kate Winkler Dawson]

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[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Even more concerning to me was there is, it's almost like I had mentioned before, a frozen moment in time because they have this stuff called Sallow, which is a high calorie white pork fat and it's a Slavic delicacy. It is sliced and it's ready to eat and it's frozen on the table so it hasn't been covered. It's almost like somebody had just cut it and was getting ready to eat it. And there's a jug of cocoa that had been mixed with water, and that jug is iced over at this point. And there is a stack of wood right next to the fire, like, kind of put into the stove. A stack of wood right next to the stove, as if somebody was just getting ready to load it in. They have a journal, and they have cameras and individual diaries that are right there. And then they only had about 10 bucks, 710 rubles in there. And so it's almost like something happened where they were living in it, and they immediately left.

[Paul Holes]

Yeah, it's odd.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Just get ready to say that a lot.

[Paul Holes]

Yeah. You know. Okay, what's the size of this team again? How many?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

They're pro hikers who are also students. There's nine of them.

[Paul Holes]

Nine.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

And I have photos of them and them in the snow, in the actual snow chronicling this trip. They found their cameras, and so you can see what the snow looks like. And I also have the. The boot impressions in the snow. Okay, so you tell me where you want to go now.

[Paul Holes]

Yeah. Let's take a look at that scene. Which one?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Okay. If we look at what I called hikers in fun snow, that's what the snow looks like. But I don't think I have the photos of the tent. These are, like, scene photos that they took themselves.

[Paul Holes]

Okay.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

These are not evidence photos. So if you open it, you'll see the nine members of the team, and then you'll kind of just see their fun. They were documenting their lives on this trip.

[Paul Holes]

They look young.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

They. They are. They're students at this technical school.

[Paul Holes]

Okay.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

And I'll tell you a little bit more about them once we get there, since I know we need some victimology and stuff.

[Paul Holes]

You know, the first photo that I'm seeing once I get past the portraits of the team, it looks like the team is in the back of a, you know, some sort of utility truck, like, not quite a pickup truck. It has the wooden railing that they're leaning against, but they're all dressed appropriately. You know, they've got heavy jackets with hoods and heavy mittens on. You know, the kind of the fingerless gloves, which are, you know, really good for, you know, the. The frigid temperatures, because you're able to keep more warmth inside those mittens. And then it appears in the front that there is some sort of carrying pack that's on the floor. So I'm sure that contains a lot of the supplies. And then the next photo shows three of Them up against this structure that's constructed out of a tree trunk and then some horizontal branches. And so there's three of these tree trunks and each tree trunk has three horizontal branches on, you know, nailed to them. And it appears like, you know, some, some of the skis are being leaned up against these structures. I haven't seen this type of structure before.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

They're using it to clean the skis off. That's the purpose of that structure is so they can kind of sit and clean everything on. Putting their boots too, I'm sure.

[Paul Holes]

Yeah, that makes sense. You know, it's clever. And there's more that are, you know, further in the backdrop. But I'm also taking a look at where they're doing this. They're still below the tree line. You have some, you know, whether they're aspens, you know, that are tall but sparse, it's not like a super wooded area where they're located at. And then scrolling down the next photo is a photo of them where they're now hiking. They got their snowshoes or their skis on with their ski poles very heavily garbed up with weather, weather clothing, you know, the heavy, heavy jackets and the pant legs, the pants. And it appears that at the time of this photo, the snow is blowing, you know, so, you know, they've got some weather that they are having to hike through. And then the next photo is showing a tent with two of the hikers kind of around this tent and I can see the ski poles that have been stuck in the snow. They've rigged up a way to hold this tent up. Now this tent is only. Even though you mentioned the tent was 16 by 13ft, it's only maybe 3ft, 3ft tall.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

And that might be a different tent because I, they had several tents from what I, what I've read.

[Paul Holes]

Okay.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

And I actually did find photos of the collapsed tent, so you can have a better idea of that too.

[Paul Holes]

Okay. So maybe they, they had multiple tents available to them versus all of them going into the, the one, one structure.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Yep.

[Paul Holes]

You know, and then the last photo, you know, they're just cross, cross country skiing. That's what it looks like. You know, they're following in each other's tracks, probably taking turns as to who's in the lead because that's going to be the most challenging part of this. And it looks beautiful. You know, you got pristine snow, you've got mountains in the backdrop with the trees and maybe there's a frozen lake up ahead, you know, so, you know, this is, it's nature. They're out there. But it does look like it's fairly remote. I don't see any, you know, human made structures in this photograph at all.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

No. And I'm gonna show you some photographs. I'm actually gonna send them to you real quick, Paul.

[Paul Holes]

Okay. Yeah. So I'm initially looking at an overall photograph. This is what we would, how we would call this, this type of photo from a crime scene where it's capturing basically the entire scene. In the middle, there's. First, it's just snow all around where this collapsed tent is at. There's no other structures. It appears that there's, there is a peak of a mountain in the backdrop. And the tent itself really just looks like, you know, dark fabric on top of the snow. And then this is where the skis have been, you know, stuck vertically in the snow around where this tent is. So those skis, I'm assuming possibly helped hold up the tent in some capacity.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Yeah, yep. Because they don't have trees around. So I think they either had to use skis or trees and then they have, I think they had some tent poles with them. I'll have to look again though, and.

[Paul Holes]

Then the other photo, which is a close up of this collapsed tent. So this photo is showing the tent that is not even sure how I'm going to describe this. You know, basically the tent has collapsed down. There appears to be a fair amount of heavy snow deposits it on the top surface, covering visibility on the top of this tent. In the foreground, the closest to the person taking the photograph, you can see where there's either, what do you call them, a ski, you know, what you use as you're skiing, but you.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Oh, like a ski pole.

[Paul Holes]

Ski pole. So it appears that part of the fabric is covering something like a ski pole, where maybe that was the entrance into the tent. And there's some cordage that's probably securing that part of the tent to the ski pole or whatever it is that's holding it up towards the rear. You know, there's, there's several skis that are vertical, you know, that probably were there to help hold this tent up at some point. And I'm also seeing some ski poles in the foreground that appear to be mostly buried. The snow is heavily disturbed. And this is where. Is this the condition when the, you know, the, the search team, you know, first arrives or has there been a lot of disturbance to the scene before this photograph is taken? So right now just, we don't, I don't know how to interpret what I'm seeing. But, you know, it's heavy deposits of snow, chunks of snow on top of this tent. And I'm surprised at that. I. I thought, okay, well, with, you know, over time, with weather blowing, you'd start to see, you know, the snow just naturally deposit on top of the tent. Even in this collapsed state. This almost looks like there's been chunks of snow thrown on top of the tent, maybe in an effort to hide it, like somebody is trying to bury it, but doesn't quite get it completely buried.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Well, and to give you a little bit more context, so they're using the diaries, the search teams are using the diaries and later on investigators to figure out how far people got. So, because you remember, they have journals and diaries that they found in the tent.

[Paul Holes]

Right.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

And it's confirmed that on January 31, they had reached this area. They dug a snow pit, unloaded their heaviest gear in it, and the next day they planned. So February 1st, they planned to ski toward the mountain pass, but that's it. That's the last entry where the journals were found at that location they had been missing or whatever happens to them, starting February 1st. And it is now February 26th.

[Paul Holes]

Yeah.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

So that could also explain the snow. How much is on there, you know.

[Paul Holes]

Yeah, I just think the configuration of the snow looks wrong to me for just being done by weather, you know, and those journals are. Are absolutely key from, you know, a temporal standpoint. As you said, they made it. They said they made it out there on January 31st. They were going to go ski on February 1st. And there's no other entries into the journals after that.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Yep.

[Paul Holes]

And, you know, of course, I'd be wanting to take a look at the journals. You know, each person probably has their own frequency that they're putting entries in. So do some of these journals have entries every day and that it just stops, or is it more sporadic where maybe there's additional days where there was normal activity occurring at this location and they just never made another entry just because they weren't doing it on a daily basis?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Let's talk about the tent. Or do you want to talk about them leaving? Which do you prefer?

[Paul Holes]

Well, since I just described the tent, let's get more details about the tent.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Okay, so the tent, it looks like you can go ahead and bring up your photos. And while you're doing that, I'll go through this. The tent and its contents, you know, were eventually collected from the slope and rebuilt inside a police station in Ural. This is where Kind of the main investigation will start. A seamstress mending police uniforms remarks the tent slashes which have been made from the inside. And an expert confirms these were slashes made from the inside. So, you know, there's different information about the tent and how big the slashes were. They might have it on the diagram. Do they have it on the diagrams?

[Paul Holes]

Yeah. So this first, it's a sketch. However, it's a sketch that's been made using a straight edge. So it's very neat. And the configuration of this tent is like an A frame. So the fabric, the way the tent was designed in order to be put up would be, you know, in essence, you have a long ridge line from front to back with an entry that's shaped like a triangle in the front, where people can go in and out of this tent. And then you would have to have various mechanisms, such as the skis, ski poles, to hold up this, this tent from the inside, as well as potentially, you know, using twine at both ends to hold up the ridgeline. On the sloped face of this tent, there is a drawing of what I'm assuming is the damage to the fabric, and it's significant in terms of the size of the damage. For example, there is a red arrow labeled number one, which is pointing at sort of a linear defect on this tent roof. And There's a number 31 with two arrows emanating out of it that goes along the length of that defect. So I'm interpreting that is 31 units log. I don't know if it's centimeters, I don't know if it's inches, but it's 31 log. And then directly above that is more of a curvilinear defect with a red number two red arrow pointing at it. And that defect has 89 units marking it. And then you have large areas of fabric just in the middle on this roof side, which they're indicating with cross hatching. What I'm going to assume that there's missing fabric and there's no real measurements across, you know, how large this is. But it is. It appears that this is relatively done to scale. Appears to be a significant amount of fabric that has been removed, but not in a very regular fashion. There's a lot of irregularities to some of the margins of this damage. And there appears to be a very long tongue of fabric in the middle of this that is still remaining. And so it's almost as if you have two rectangular openings and then a flap that was left behind. And then there's the measurement roughly 42 inches or 42 units wide for that fabric in the middle of this damage. And then further down, there appears to be a linear defect that goes all the way from the top of the tent down to where the, the tent would have been secured using cordage to tents, spikes in the snow. And there appears to be some, some damage removed. So, you know, this is not, you know, the amount of fabric that has been in essence cut out from the, the roof of this tent is significant. Why would somebody do that? The way that that's drawn, that's not done by an animal. I don't see this occurring as a result of weather, you know, so why is somebody doing this? And you said that experts claimed it was done from the inside.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Inside, yeah. Does it look like it would have been a knife would have had to have done it or some kind of cutting instrument would have had to have done it?

[Paul Holes]

Well, at least, you know, without seeing a photo, you know, how straight the artist is drawing some of these defects tends to suggest, yes, you've got a sharp edge, you know, knife, scissors, that is cutting parts of it. And then possibly where it's irregular is where the fabric is bunched up as they're trying to cut through that fabric. So in some ways you can see where somebody is just, just real quickly doing these linear cuts and then now is balling the fabric up and then cutting these swaths of cloth or fabric out from the roof. You know, these photos are showing the, you know, more close up of the damage to the tent fabric. So I can start to take a look and see. Yes, there's no question that you're dealing with, you know, a sharp edge. You know, chances are it's a knife. You know, however, the way that some of the fabric has, you know, these little pieces, there's, there is an aspect of not only cutting, but possibly just tearing. Maybe even where you, you know, you start, you know, with the knife and then you just kind of more rapidly pull the fabric apart and tear it apart. You know, they've got some good close up photos with, with scale showing that, you know, some of the, the fabric was clean, this, this close up photo, but some of it appears that it also was pulled apart. Like, you know, they, they started it and then now is just getting it completely apart through a tearing action. There is one photo showing that side of the tent, you know, where there's a, appears to be a fair amount of fabric missing. You know, and it dawns on me it's very possible that whoever did this Was using this fabric it. To bundle something up, you know, like a little to make a carrying case.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Oh, okay.

[Paul Holes]

Or, you know, depending on how much of that tent. I mean, it's possible it was used as, you know, like a wrap a body in, you know. Yeah, so that seems to make sense to me. I, I, it's not random. Whoever did this, they're just not doing this for fun, you know, it's not like, like, you know, sometimes you'll get some cases where you have an offender that just wants to damage. It's, it's like a form of vandalism. I don't think that's what's going on here. I think that there's maybe a functional aspect to why the offender is. If I want to. I'm not even sure I can say offender. But why the, the, you know, the person who is cutting the fabric, I think they're, they want to use the fabric for something.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Okay, so if we come out of the tent, where we're looking next is, do we have any boot prints? We don't. We have footprints. They find a chain of eight or nine sets of footprints leading from the tent toward the tree line less than a mile away. So the people who made those were either barefoot or wearing socks. They said one person wore a single ski boot. But they're orderly, so there's not that sort of, I don't know, kicking up snow like they're running. They're orderly, and, you know, they're kind of going maybe next to each other or single file. I can't quite tell. But these footprints disappear a quarter of a mile from the tent.

[Paul Holes]

Or so you think about where this is happening. You know, you're talking zero degrees down to, what was it? Negative, 30 degrees. They're in snow. The snow is five feet deep. And these people are not voluntarily walking out of that tent without their boots on. They're being forced and that basically they were told, move. And now how does that happen to a team of nine? Well, now you've probably got a group with guns saying, you guys are marching. Now, you think how fast frostbite would set in without the heavy boots on, without the, the proper clothing at this location? I'm curious, you know, where these footprints stop. Were there tracks, like snowmobile tracks? Were. Was there, you know, some sort of vehicle? You know, any indication that there's a vehicle at this location that could pick this team up, Whether the team is still alive or is killed at this location, or is there any blood stains at this location, et cetera? You know, but they just didn't disappear, you know, unless, you know, the investigators failed to dig into the snow and there's frozen bodies at this location that just got covered with snow over time.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Well, let me tell you, moving forward, they follow these footprints and then they lose them about a quarter of a mile from the tent.

[Paul Holes]

And do they lose them because just snow covers them up?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

It looks like it, no.

[Paul Holes]

You know, but I think even though, you know, they may not have a full trail, you know, this team was marched to a location and it's. Was that location found? Were their bodies recovered or you know, again, you know, were they transported somewhere else?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

So the next day they resumed the search. At about 11 o' clock, they discovered the remains of a fire at the base of a tall cedar on that tree line's edge. And it's about a little more than a mile, maybe about a mile from the tent that had been slashed. They say based on the char of the wood, the fire appears to have been burned for about 90 minutes. The branches of the fir and birch trees within a 65 foot perimeter of the cedar have been cut and they think with a finished knife, which is the knife I described for you, kind of a curved knife that they would use. The cedars dry branches which were 12 to 17ft off the ground have also been broken off. And let me just tell you what's at the scene. So there's various garments, including a half burned brown sock, a green checkered shirt with eight rubles in the pocket and a woman's handkerchief. And they're all strewn around by the fire and there are bodies there.

[Paul Holes]

Oh, okay.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

You know, we do know details about the trip and we know details about, about the school they went to and who all these people are. Would you rather talk about the trip when we get to kind of this first set of bodies and go backwards and say this is how the trip went or. And do you want to hear about these people as they, they come up or how do you want to do it?

[Paul Holes]

Well, I think, you know, with, with the finding of the bodies, you know, that will give me better insight as to, okay, what, what was the, the offender's motive, if there is an offender. And then we can kind of get back and maybe start going into the victimology.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Okay. They find initially two bodies. The first person is 21 year old Yuri Daroshenko, but I'm calling him Yuri. And then there's a 23 year old named Georgi, Yuri Krivounko, and he went by Kriva. So So with Yuri, he is lying face down with his head turned to the left. And remember, this is 6 to 10ft from the fire, what once was a fire.

[Paul Holes]

Okay?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

His arms are bent at the elbows and his fingers are clenched. His hair is very dirty and tangled with moss and fur needles and burned. Near his right temple, in the occipital region under his body are three or four cedar branches. And then I have information on what he's wearing. And lucky for you, we don't have autopsy photos, but we have very detailed autopsy diagrams of all of this. So do you wanna see the diagram first or do you wanna hear about what he's wearing and some more of his injuries?

[Paul Holes]

Yeah, tell me what they can see at the crime scene.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Okay. He stripped to his undergarments. So he is wearing a light green sleeveless cotton undershirt, a blue and red checkered shirt, blue satin briefs, and blue knitted long underwear. The long underwear is missing a thigh panel. It's been torn or possibly cut with a knife. On his left foot, he wears three layers of socks. Two light brown ones, knitted socks, and. And then one white woolen sock. And on his right foot, he wears two layers of cotton and wool socks. The outer socks on both feet are burned to tatters. Last thing about Yuri, his ears, lips and nose are covered in blood. His upper lip is swollen. There are multiple small abrasions and bruises that cover his arms and legs. His fingertips and toes are dark purple in color. And the toes on his left foot are burned. So we can talk about Kriva, or you can look at the diagram of Yuri, and then we can go on to Creva.

[Paul Holes]

Let me look at the diagram of Yuri here. The hemorrhaging and swelling to, you know, his nose, his mouth. You know, this all appears that he's being beat in the face. He's. He's taking blows, you know, possibly being punched. The extensive abrasions to his arms, even his hands, you know, around the knuckles, they notice significant swelling, you know, as if he possibly was, you know, striking something himself, maybe fighting back against whoever's beating him. You know, part of the complexity of evaluating the injuries is you're dealing with probably crusty snow. You've got the branches that his body is on. You know, some of this could be a result of movement against, you know, this hard snow or the branches. However, it appears that, you know, he's probably being beat. You know, the dark purple tissue at the tips of his fingers and toes suggests frostbite to me, which it wouldn't be Surprising and would probably happen really quickly out there if he's been marched a mile dressed like this out to this particular location. Yeah, I think you're going to start to see frostbite setting in the burned hair as well as, you know, it appears that there's some other singeing or soot from the fire. Was he located closer to the fire at some point, you know, and then was his body was moved, you know, who knows what's going on there? So at this point we don't know if Yuri died just as a result of exposure or if, you know, he did receive a fatal injury or multiple fatal injuries. But it does appear that he is interacting. There's violence being inflicted on Yuri, so that's now. Okay. Tells me that at least with Yuri, and I'm going to say with probably the rest of the team, this isn't where they ended up taking too much vodka and some sort of psychedelic and just wigged out and just walked out into the elements. Goes back to what I in my initial assessment, they were forced out and at least with Yuri and Kriva, they were forced out. This location of the campfire, whether that campfire pre existed and they were marched there or you know, the campfire was started once it got to that location. Also, the way that campfire you're talking about dry branches being, you know, taken off of the the surrounding trees tells me that you are dealing with somebody very experienced out in nature and recognized where the dry wood is versus maybe some of the other. Their sources of fuel are still too moist in order to be able to start a fire. They had a means to start a fire, whether that be you're talking 1959. So they could have had pretty much any modern contraption to start a fire or they're skilled enough to be able to start a fire using what's available with flint, etc. So in some ways you're dealing with bushcraft or, you know, survivalist type of training.

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[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Well, let me tell you just a tiny bit about Since Yuri's our first victim here, I'll tell you just very briefly about the group so you know this was a sporting club, expedition club at a university that was a technical university. To which I thought, okay, what does that mean? They were all students or recent alumni in and their majors were. Or their jobs were in economics, nuclear physics, machine building, radio and civil engineering. There was one named Sasha who we haven't talked about yet, and he was not part of that school. He came along. This was initially a 10 person expedition, not a 9 person, but one person had to drop out because of illness. So it turned into a nine person and team here, as I had said before, they're all experienced and they were trained to become nuclear power and weapon and radio and aerospace engineers. So that's where we start when we talk about Yuri.

[Paul Holes]

Yeah. And what was the purpose of them going out to this location?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

They loved it. It wasn't a school thing. It was. They were part of a sporting club where they would do stuff like this. I mean, I have a lot of photos of them doing other expeditions. You know, it was a sports club trekking expedition from specifically that originated from this technical college. But not everybody went there. Okay, so this was a fun trip and stuff they've done before.

[Paul Holes]

Yeah, so. So they didn't have a mission going out there.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Not that they said and not that we know of.

[Paul Holes]

Right.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

So we have another person who I mentioned to you, and he was Yuri Krivo. And so we call him Kriva. And. And he is found close by to Yuri. He's lying face up. His right arm is above his head. His left arm is bent so that his wrist lays across his chest. His right leg is extended, his left leg is bent at the knee. And just like Yuri, he stripped to his undergarments. He is wearing a worn white cotton shirt, a red, blue and black checkered shirt, blue satin swimming trunks and long underwear. These two have been torn asunder. I mean, they're torn around all this stuff. The entire bottom half of the left leg is missing. Its ragged edge is charred. His right foot is bare. On his left foot he wears a burned and tattered brown sock. And then I have injuries for him. And you have a diagram.

[Paul Holes]

Yeah. Now, I think some of the missing fabric from the victim's clothing that may have been used as kindling to start the fire.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Okay.

[Paul Holes]

I think the state of Yuri and Kriva, what clothes they are wearing, it suggests going back to the original tent location, that maybe they had undressed just for normal, staying inside the tent when the offenders came across them. And now they're just being forced out, out into the elements. It wouldn't surprise me though, if the offenders forced the victims to undress as a further means of control. It's sort of like, okay, you're going out there and you don't have the ability to just run away because you will die. Right. So there may be an element of that where now the offenders are going to, okay, get out in the elements in your pajamas, basically, and you have to stay with us because you need us in order to survive. At least that may have been a message at the outset.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Well, let me tell you about Creva's injuries. His face is covered in abrasions and scratches. The right side of his head is covered in blood. There's a contusion and a scratch on the left temple that have caused a swelling on the left side of his head.

[Paul Holes]

Head. Okay.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

His ears are frostbitten. His lips and his eyes are swollen. The tip of his nose is missing and there's no blood. Both of his hands are charred black. A wound peels the skin on his left hand back. His right hand has a wound at the base of the thumb. There's a bite wound, possibly from an animal, but they aren't sure. The skin covering the middle phalanx of his third middle finger is completely bitten off. Blood is frozen between his discolored fingers. His left hip and his inner side of his, his left thigh have multiple straight edge lesions. His left shin, exposed by the torn underwear is swollen. Third degree burns cover shin to foot and There is a 4 by 12 inch area that is charred brown and black. And the skin on his foot is peeling away. So what is something that would happen naturally if somebody had a heart attack in the snow and were left there frostbite or whatever, and what, what has to be some sort of horrible, you know, attack?

[Paul Holes]

Well, there's no question Yuri and Ka are, they're being beat. Sounds like Kaa. There may have been a knife used on him. The missing part of his finger, you know, that's where. Okay, you, you said it was like bitten off. Okay, what animals are out at this location? And it's unusual just to see like a middle finger missing. And so I'm questioning whether it was bitten. Could it have been cut off? Some aspects, maybe even with the fire, this there, there could be a level of torture being inflicted on Yuri and Kriva, you know, and then why would the offenders be doing this, this type of torture? Are they, you know, trying to elicit statements or find out what these two saw that maybe they shouldn't have seen? My sense is, is that both Yuri And Kriva prob as a result of blows, maybe, you know, repeated blows to the head. But there's a lot, there's violence. There's a lot of violence going on to both of these victims.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Yep. And so we still have seven more people to account for. So later in the day, same location, they go a half mile from that cedar tree and they find two more.

[Paul Holes]

People, two more victims.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Yep. So you've got Igor and Zen. This is one of the two women. So Igor and Xenia are found and they are a half mile from that cedar tree. Their bodies are on the slope facing the tent. Igor's body is face up behind a small birch. His legs are bent at the knees. His hands are pressed to his chest. His watch reads 5:31. And I think we need to jot that time down. That becomes important, I think later on 5 31. It doesn't say whether it's a.m. or p.m. 5 31. Zeena is buried under firm snow above the tree line. Her arms are curled with her fists clenched and they're under her body. Her right leg is lifted to her stomach, frozen in the position of like somebody is climbing. Do you want to talk about the injuries or what do you think? And I also have bigger injuries to talk about.

[Paul Holes]

Yeah, I was just going to try to clarify the buried in snow. Is this a result of just, you know, snowfall or did somebody purposely bury her?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

They are not indicating that this is like a burial site. I think it's under snow.

[Paul Holes]

Got it.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

So both of these people, Igor and Zina, have more clothes on than either Yuri or Crevo did. They are still underprepared for being out here. Igor is wearing a cotton undershirt, a red checkered shirt, blue sweater and a blue fern lined vest which is unbuttoned. He's also wearing black satin briefs, brown fleece ski pants and some cotton sweatpants. And his socks are mismatched. On his left foot he has like a brown sock. And I mean it's definitely mismatched. Xena is more warmly dressed. She has a pinkish red wool cap over a blue wool knitted cap, a satin bra, blue knitted T shirt, multicolored checkered shirt. She's got more clothing on. The left cuff of the wool sweater is worn off. A military style mask is lodged under her checkered shirt. She's also wearing black cotton swimming trunks and black cotton bodysuit. Now the swimming trunks. I know sounds odd. I saw a couple of photos in my package of the huge package we had of them swimming in Like a creek when, you know it has to be below freezing. So I don't know if it was just for warmth. I've seen several of those photos. I think maybe that was a thing they liked to do. So I don't know if that's at all helpful. But I wasn't surprised reading about the swimsuits.

[Paul Holes]

Cold plunge.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Yeah, good God. Yeah, exactly. That's right. On both feet. She has three layers of socks. Now I've got injuries. Whenever you're ready for those.

[Paul Holes]

Yeah, I think, you know, my only comment about the state of dress is it's still wholly inadequate. These two did not dress and voluntarily leave that tent and walk, what is it, basically, a mile and a half away, you know, so their state of dress is probably how they were hanging out in the tent before the offenders came in.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Okay. They both show signs of non fatal, what they say is non fatal blunt force trauma. Igor's face, his hands and his ankles are scratched and bloodied. His nose and his right hand knuckles are bruised by a blunt object. They think Zena's face, especially on the right side, is purple, red, bruised and bloodied. The bridge of her nose is slightly concave. Her eyes and her lips are swollen. Her hands and fingers are a purple brownish color and badly scraped. Her right hand is an irregularly shaped wound with jagged edges and a scalped skin flap. The skin at the base of her third finger is gone. And then we will have some autopsy results because these bodies are shipped out, these four bodies, and they do an autopsy while trying to find. Now we're up to five missing still.

[Paul Holes]

I would say that Igor and Zena's injuries are, you know, they're very similar to Yuri and Krava's injuries. There appears to be they're being beat. You know, is there, is there again, is there some aspect of torture that's really hard to discern just for a. From verbal description? But the question is, why are they located separately from Yuri and Kriva and they don't have any fatal injuries. I would suggest right now that possibly Igor and Zeno were able to run away after they had been beat, and then they succumbed to the elements. They got about a mile away and then ultimately they succumbed, bombed, whereas Yuri and Kriva, I think they likely had the fatal injuries inflicted at that campfire.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Well, we get the bodies taken and they have forensic experts conduct the autopsies on all four of these folks. So this happens March 4, which is maybe five days after they were discovered. Their deaths are deemed violent and accidental. And they say they were caused by exposure and hypothermia. The evidence that they say is that there's swelling of the meninges and there is. It is a dark liquid blood filling the cardiac cavity. And the presence of Vishnevsky spots. Have you heard of that before?

[Paul Holes]

That doesn't sound familiar.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

They are spots that are dark brown to black. Black hemorrhagic lesions on the gastric mucosa found during an autopsy. And it's a reliable indicator of fatal hypothermia, is what they say. Does that sound right to you?

[Paul Holes]

You know, again, I just don't have any experience, you know, with the. This type of temperature and in the cases that I've got. So these people are the experts. And so what they in essence are saying, at least with what you're. You're telling me, is to say all four of the victims were beat, possibly cut into at some point or fingers smashed or cut off, whatever, you know. Is there torture? I don't know, but I'm kind of leaning that there may be something like that. But none of the injuries, these pathologists couldn't say any of these injuries by themselves were fatal. Yeah, the victims also had the exposure, and there's the evidence, the medical evidence of the exposure. Now, with Yuri and Kriva, my sense is that they didn't have the ability, the wherewithal in order to be able to get away from that location. Whereas I still think Igor and Zeena possibly were able to get away, but then ultimately the exposure got them.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

So let me tell you some things that I found confusing. Everybody except for Yuri. The other three people had overfilled bladders and third and fourth degree frostbite on their fingers, and Yuri and Crevo had them on their toes. Based on the state of the body's decomposition and the contents of their stomach, the medical examiner, the physicians estimated that they died pretty quickly after these final diary entries that happened at the tent. They say between six and eight hours. But we know that stomach contents are not going to be reliable.

[Paul Holes]

Overfilled bladders, you know, oftentimes after death, you know, bladders empty. We see that all the time, you know, was there. You know, these bodies probably would freeze pretty quickly. You know, I don't know if that would contribute to the lack of the bladders emptying and overfilled. They weren't allowed to use the bathroom, I guess. You know, who knows? It's just. I don't think it's necessarily significant from a criminal aspect, you know, that doesn't Tell me much. I think, you know, the injuries, the locations, the state address, that's all kind of adding into a certain aspect to this crime that is different than what we normally see out of homicidal violence. Violence.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Well, let me tell you about the autopsy findings. There's some little things that get picked up that obviously the searchers couldn't say. So one is Yuri's exposure was very extreme, more than anybody else's. They basically said if he had survived, he would have lost all of his fingers and toes. And they said, although he was found. Now, this is what I was thinking about you for criminals, you know, that's the idea of whether or not this is criminal in nature. They said even though he was found lying face down, his back exhibited livor mortis. And they say that meant that he might have been moved after death.

[Paul Holes]

I would say that's a certainty that he was moved. Liver mortis, or lividity, is after death. The heart is no longer moving the blood around, and so the blood settles inside the body with gravity. And it's one of those characteristics that we look for to determine whether or not the person died in the position as found, or if the person has been moved after death. And with Yuri, who's face down but his lividity is up opposite gravity, tells me he has been moved. He died and was on his back for a period of time. Now the temperatures that his body is being exposed to, I think, and cloud. Well, how long would that have been? But that lividity was there that that blood settled on his backside and was there in that position long enough to basically what we call fix in place. So when his body is moved, the blood doesn't just go back, you know, down with gravity again to his front. So he's dead for a period of time, and then somebody moves him, turns him face down, probably further away from the fire on top of these, you know, cedar branches.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Is that nefarious or not? We don't know. Right.

[Paul Holes]

You know, it. Well, this is where it's. It. Was that part of the original interactions between the offender and this crime scene or was. Did you have somebody else come. Come after these. These two guys are. Are dead and. And search them looking for valuables. You know, you could have other hunters out there or other trekkers may be contaminating this crime scene, but Yuri's body has been moved, you know, and so that's why his body is being moved versus the others. You know, maybe there's something there.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Okay. One thing that seems mysterious to me, they Said that the soft tissue of his right cheek is covered with a gray foam and gray liquid is leeching out of his open mouth. Is that blood? I mean, I don't even know what that would be.

[Paul Holes]

Well, when we see whether it be. You know, sometimes when you see overdoses, you know, you get this froth that can come up out of the mouth. If, if he's got some bleeding inside of his lungs, you can get this bloody froth as. As you know, the he's breathing with this blood inside. This liquid inside his. His lungs. The gray coloration. I'm not sure what to make of that, you know, and I. I guess it's also, you know, is there any correlation between that gray colored froth and his stomach contents?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

I don't have the answer to that. I can tell you that that Kriva had further abrasions along the right side of his chest and bruises on his left buttock. The chunk of skin missing from his right hand finger, remember I mentioned that, is discovered in his mouth.

[Paul Holes]

Now that's interesting.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Yeah. And Igor's missing a central incisor in his lower jaw. But they think that this is a tooth that's been missing for a while, but they're not 100%. And then Zena, they found a very large bruise on the right side of her torso in the lumbar region. Measuring 11 and a half by 2 and a half inches. It appears to be afflicted by something like a baton. Although she was found on her right side, her body exhibits livor mortis on her back. So another person that's been flipped or moved. Right?

[Paul Holes]

Yeah.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

I mean, and we don't have everybody yet. There's five more people. People?

[Paul Holes]

Yeah, you know, the, the movement of the bodies. Yuri and Xena's bodies may just be offenders coming back and checking, you know, are they dead or other things. But you know, the, the tissue found in Kriva's mouth from his own finger. Now he was the one that was missing part of his middle finger like it had been bitten off.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Says the skin covering the middle phalanx or whatever that was of the third middle finger is completely bitten off.

[Paul Holes]

Well, and, and so that's where now it's the skin covering his. His middle finger. So that's found in his mouth?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Yeah.

[Paul Holes]

Okay, so why would he be biting his own middle finger to the point where he's removing a chunk?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Do you think that there's a chance? Because all of these people are sort of stripped down. That phenomenon that happens with hypothermia. Where you just, you go into a delusion and think taking your clothes off is going to actually make you warmer. Do you think anything like that could have happened with these folks?

[Paul Holes]

I wouldn't discount some aspect. Since the autopsy findings indicate to that all four of these victims died due to exposure. There is a possibility that towards their end of life there is. That they're not necessarily thinking straight. And that may be contributing to some of the autopsy findings. However, the extensive nature of, of the, the bruising and the abrasions and, you know, all of that is, is suggesting that all four of them are being significantly beat. It may not have been fatal, but they are being beat significantly. There may be aspects of the victims after that where now they're not thinking straight. But, you know, they didn't just walk out of the tent because of hypothermia. They are forced out of the tent and march a significant distance away.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Well, we have to go back to our search, but because we have so many injuries that we've had to deal with, I think this part of the search is gonna have to wait for next week because not only do we have five more missing people, but we have a lot of conspiracy theories and a particular group of people who are targeted with very little evidence. So there's a lot of speculation that happens in the second half of this. This.

[Paul Holes]

Okay, well, you know, it's. I'm gonna have to noodle on this one.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Noodle. Okay. Are you, do you not noodle on all of my two parters?

[Paul Holes]

Yep. Nope. Looking forward to hearing more about this one. It's, it's, it is interesting.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Okay, I'll see you in a week.

[Paul Holes]

Sounds good.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

This has been an exactly right production.

[Paul Holes]

For our sources and show notes. Go go to exactlyrightmedia.com buriedbones sources.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Our senior producer is Alexis Amorosi.

[Paul Holes]

Research by Alison Trouble and Kate Winkler Dawson.

[BetterHelp Announcer]

Our mixing engineer is Ben Tolliday.

[Paul Holes]

Our theme song is by Tom Breyfogel.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

[Paul Holes]

Executive produced by Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

You can follow Buried Bones on Instagram and Facebook @BuriedBones.

[Paul Holes]

Kate's most recent book, all that is a Gilded Age Story of Murder and the Race to Decode the Criminal Mind is available now.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

And Paul's best selling memoir, My Life Solving America's Cold Cases is also available now.

[Paul Holes]

Listen to Buried bones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

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[Janice Torres and Austin Hankwitz]

Janice Torres here and I'm Austin Hankwitz. We host the podcast Mind the Business Small Business Success Stories, produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Intuit QuickBooks.

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We're back for season four to talk to some incredible small business owners.

[Janice Torres and Austin Hankwitz]

The big thing about working at tech is that it's ever evolving, ever changing. Everyone's a rookie, that's how fast the industry is changing. So what I'm really excited about is to be part of that change. So listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.